Can a Healthy Tito Ortiz Battle Back to Relevancy?
It's a question that isn't that hard for many fans to answer considering all of the outlandish and ridiculous quotes from Tito Ortiz that we've seen over the last couple of years. From completely fumbling the commentating duties at Affliction: Day of Reckoning to telling fans about how he wants to fight Fedor, most fans blithely sweep away any thoughts that Ortiz could truly become relevant once again.
Interestingly enough, some of Ortiz's past performances in the UFC do spin some positivity into the answer to the question. Some fans would mention the fact that he was one of the only fighters to put current UFC light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida into any real danger during his run toward the title. Other fans would point out that he had former UFC light heavyweight champion Rashad Evans beat in their matchup at UFC 73 until he grabbed the fence and received a point deduction. If Ortiz had not received the deduction, we probably wouldn't be talking about Rashad Evans as a former champion right now, but rather a possible contender.
While I wouldn't put a huge amount of emphasis on those bouts as a sure sign that Ortiz can come back into the fight game and instantly vault himself into relevancy, there are a few factors that could add to the possibility that Ortiz will, in fact, regain a dominating position in the rankings.
First and foremost, Ortiz hasn't been healthy in quite a long time. Specifically, his back has been a major component as to why he's claimed his performance has dropped off. We've all heard the stories about how it has hindered his training and kept him out of the sport, but there are quite a few fans who truly believe Ortiz's claims are simply excuses.
I'd be more inclined to believe that Ortiz's style could be the problem when looking back on those fights, and it isn't hard for someone to do a little research into his past reign in the UFC to see why. Ortiz's wrestling ability coupled with his strength was a staple of his skill set, and even though he has managed to change his style in bigger matchups to suit a more "exciting" battle, Ortiz hasn't added much to his skill set. That's a huge problem when we see the guys at the top having very dynamic skill sets that include not only wrestling, but boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, and Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
In retrospect however, a healthy Tito Ortiz with solid take downs and strength can be a formidable opponent to anyone currently outside the UFC, and many of the fighters making their way up into the upper-echelon of the UFC's own division.
With all of that said, Ortiz will still remain relevant as a fighter who can draw in fans. Reportedly, Ortiz is in talks with Strikeforce regarding his return to the sport with a 100% healthy back. I believe this is a solid acquisition if Strikeforce can swing his salary because he will have a broad fanbase in California, a state that Strikeforce tends to hold events, and he also peaks casual fan interest. He'll also be able to headline events for the promotion, and his self-promotion is relentless. He'll create animosity and controversy out of thin air if it will sell more tickets and grab more viewers.
Does that mean he can battle back into relevancy as a top-notch light heavyweight in the world? It's possible, but many questions remain unanswered about his health and skills in the cage. If he was truly hurt in the past, a 100% Tito Ortiz can only perform even better, and that brings up questions as to whether he could have dominated Rashad Evans with a fully healthy back. I don't believe he would have defeated Lyoto Machida, but I'm interested to see how he could fair against anybody that Strikeforce could bring in to fight him.
Fighters like Renato "Babalu" Sobral, Mike Whitehead, or even potentially Vladimir Matyushenko could be opponents for Ortiz in Strikeforce, and if Strikeforce could leverage some of Afflction's talent like Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, I'd be more than willing to watch those two battle it out in the cage. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of catchweight bout with Vitor Belfort as a rematch of their UFC 51 battle either.
Winning some of those fights would put him back into the top ten rankings, albeit just barely. The most interesting part about the potential deal with Strikeforce is that the UFC has the chance to match the deal, so we may see Ortiz back in the UFC as well. That'd be a much more promising endeavour for him if he truly intends to make an impact in the division, but I wonder if Ortiz is simply looking for a payday without actually taking on top competition. It wouldn't surprise me.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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38 comments
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Comments
Even when he is back to 100%, can he still be relevant if nobody cares about him?!
by steveoc24 on Jul 2, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There will be fans that will care, and it’ll be more than your average TUF contestant. I don’t think he’s a guy who can single-handedly draw like he had in the past by any means, but with a small supporting cast, he could still do some numbers.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 2, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tito, to me, is one of those guys whose success was equal parts his abilities and the time at which he was fighting. Tito was a huge, strong LHW who was cutting weight before most people did. He had tremendous cardio that allowed him to effectively ground and pound without passing his opponent’s guard. And he had an in-your-face style that really frustrated dangerous strikers before the full-on advent of the “sprawl and brawl” striker with a wrestling base. But Tito getting lit up by Chuck wasn’t an accident. Tito being completely unable to change up his gameplan against Couture, despite having five rounds to try and do it, wasn’t an accident. Tito has been fooling himself if he thinks that the only reason for his lack of success in his last few fights was his health; given Tito’s well-known ego, I don’t think that’s a stretch. And if he’s been so damaged that he hasn’t been able to train fully, I think it’s safe to say that he hasn’t been adding significantly to his game during that time either.
Tito isn’t a bad fighter. Tito will still beat almost anybody who doesn’t have good takedown defence, and who doesn’t have an active guard. But so many of the fighters today can either stuff his shot, sweep or sub him from the bottom, or both, that “relevancy” seems a long way off. Relevant as a box office draw? Sure, why not, at least for a little while. But that’s trading on his past name, the currency he built up as a dominant LHW champion four or five years ago. That’s not new relevancy, just the echoes of past relevance. As Tito goes forward, unless something changes (especially with his humility and ego in the sense that he’ll have to understand that cardio and wrestling just aren’t enough against the freakishly well rounded athletes who now make up a lot of the LHW level) his relevancy is bound to decline.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 2, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I definitely think he can be somewhat relevant as a draw, but as a top ten fighter… I’m more inclined to think his days are numbered in that department. Good points.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 2, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Rankings, of course, is that as long as the UFC locks down 8 or more of a division’s Top 10, it becomes nearly impossible to break into the list from outside of the UFC, because either those Top 10 guys keep fighting and winning, or they lose, and are replaced by new fighters from inside the promotion, and when a former Top 10 fighter leaves the UFC, he is seen as “on the decline,” i.e., no longer able to bestow Top 10 status on a fighter who beats him. It’s kind of tough to gauge “relevance” on something so tenuous and arguably bootstrapped as “Top 10 rating.” It’s why people say that Japanese lightweights are Overrated…
by madiq on Jul 2, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is, outside of the UFC, there aren’t too many dangerous Light Heavyweights on the prowl. I count Babalu, Gegard Mousasi, Rafael Feijao, and possibly Antonio Rogerio Nogueira as guys I’d definitely favor, and all of those guys are arguably Top 10. So if Tito can beat any of them, people might start taking him seriously again.
by madiq on Jul 2, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nogueira and Babalu are, for sure, top ten guys. He can possibly beat them, although if he actually somehow beats Nogueira, I’d shit myself.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 2, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tito goes to Strikeforce and Dana White offers huge contracts to all the LHW’s that are free agents just so Tito has nobody to fight.
by steveoc24 on Jul 2, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And stop ranking him as a top five LHW
:-D
by subo on Jul 2, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that a PPV headlined by Tito Ortiz would do just as well as one headlined by Fedor.
I think that Tito on CBS probably performs on par with Kimbo Slice and Gina Carano, ratingswise…particularly if he gets his wife to help him promote it.
I think that if Tito can beat Babalu and become a champion again, he’ll do more to expose people to Strikeforce than anyone else currently roaming free in the MMA world.
by madiq on Jul 2, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You never know with fighting. One or two wins and Tito is back on top. i think being outside of the UFC has some benefits ranking wise becuase people tend to rank the outsiders higher for some reason.
by Bandaka on Jul 2, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like Tito
at all. But I will say this. He is a beast at 205. He tied (beat Rashad) and had Machida in trouble. Any fighter who can do those 2 things will be a force if his mind is in the ring.
by Riney on Jul 2, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No, having Machida in trouble means nothing because he couldn’t finish him and was dominated the rest of the fight also if he didn’t grab the fence repeatedly against Rashad he would have been finished by him.
Tito’s time has come and gone he had a great run but like many of his counterparts his time of being an elite level LHW is done and unless Strikeforce can get him on a bargin he’s not worth overpaying for.
by Raker on Jul 2, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would not say dominated by Machida
Out pointed is a better description, there was very little scoring in the fight.
If healthy, I think that is a major if for the rest of his career, Ortiz is a top 5 LHW. Especially since the entire field has morphed itself into stand up fighters. A guy with a dominate takedown and ground game has a lot of favorable match ups.
by bignerd on Jul 3, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only shots Tito landed were a couple of body blows in the clinch (and maybe? a leg kick?). I don’t believe he ever took Machida down, and most of his attempts ended with Tito being shrugged off like a child. Machida landed some good shots, including that knee that buckled Tito, superior wrestling, and some vicious GNP. Other than that Hail Mary triangle attempt, Machida dictated every moment of that fight. I’d call it domination.
by Grappo on Jul 3, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t domination when you do some damage to the other fighter. According your scale Forrest dominated Rashad Evans for two rounds of their championship fight.
by bignerd on Jul 3, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS
Tito’s time has come and gone
http://www.mmaforreal.com
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by Kelvin Hunt on Jul 2, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That pretty much sums it up
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
by Ubernoober on Jul 2, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much this. The top fighters – because admittedly, Tito is still better than the vast majority of LHW fighters – are too good to simply be taken down and punched by a wrestler, in my opinion. It’s a different era and he hasn’t evolved in ten years.
by Ahhhoki on Jul 2, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone has figured Tito’s out… Before his wrestling advantage would win him fights but now everyone has wrestling at the elite level.
Tito could still be top 10 but he will never be top 5.
by mmalogic on Jul 2, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Tito has a lot he doesn’t show, like say…a Triangle off his back.
by CliChe Guevara on Jul 2, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
had he been in better shape
he’d have put poster boy Forrest’s face through the floor of the Octagon.
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by Kid Nate on Jul 2, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if my aunt had a dick, she’d be my uncle. Point?
by subo on Jul 2, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
To Be Fair
Forrest was greener than a leprechaun at that time…and still arguable won the decision.
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by Kelvin Hunt on Jul 2, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly
Forrest had already been in 13 pro fights and had beaten the likes of Jeff Monson and Chael Sonnen. He had also fought Jeremy Horn and Dan Severn.
by MMAcGyver on Jul 4, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This needs another choice:
“I will give my opinion when Tito gets back into the cage, until then I don’t want to hear any more of his blabbering.”
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 2, 2009 10:02 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I voted yes, but this option is by far the best.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 3, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted no and I don't need any other choices...lol
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Jul 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really dislike Tito.
But I think he will do very well in Strikeforce. There he will be relevant, or at least as relevant as fighters like Frank Shamrock are.
Relevant in the overall LHW picture, never again, but in the senior tour that Strikeforce tends to be, sure…why not.
by Razreshat on Jul 2, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He did better against Machida than Evans did, drew with Evans (the champ before Machida) and beat Forrest (the champ before Evans). Back permitting, his career is far from over IMO.
by brad23 on Jul 2, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is one thing I like about Tito
He’s probably one of the best TUF coaches they had. I really hope he just cuts this crap out and focuses on training new fighters, If I remember correctly, he was able to be honest and identify his weaknesses, and bring in good coaches to fill in those gaps. I think if he tried, he could build a fairly formidable team.
by Shaun32887 on Jul 3, 2009 3:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that what he was doing with Team Punishment?
They aren’t exactly world beaters.
Agreed though, he was good on TUF
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 3, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tito is entertaining. Once he gets back in the cage he will be relevant because of his persona. He has the ability to get casual fans really hyped up because of his smack talk and attitude. It would be really nice if he actually signed a contract with SF and announced it at the Cina/Cyborg fight. I can see him beating Babalu if he is 100%. I still think he needs a tune up fight though…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 3, 2009 8:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great write up, Leland.
Recedy!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 3, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate to be a stickler but peaks should read piques in paragraph 7.
I love your work though Leland.
Your betting guides are some of the best out there in my opinion.
Can you recommend any other good places with MMA picks?
by Jahmelianenko on Jul 3, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really dislike Tito.
I really dislike Tito but wisely recognize his marketability as a major plus. He should leave MMA behind and move over to the WWE. Over there, he could go over big as a heel. Sort of like a charismatic Hispanic Kurt Angle with MMA credentials. At this point in his career he’s just wasting his time and opportunities that could be better spent in a much larger market.
by JAYGK95 on Jul 3, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I said no because I think he’ll make some crazy plan outside the cage that’ll ruin whatever he can build up inside the cage. Like, going to the WWE.. which wouldn’t be a bad move for him actually.
by noquarter on Jul 4, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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