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UFC 100 Aftermath: Two Views on Brock Lesnar

Since the horse hasn't died yet, I'm going to keep flogging it. Here are two views on Lesnar that I thought were interesting new angles. First Zak Woods tries to get at the perception of the elusive "mainstream":

Yet all of the talk, analysis, conjecture and opinion fails to address one very important point, where does the (Lesnar) hate originate from? 

Maybe I missed something but my experience with casual fans and Brock Lesnar is not one of universal scorn (he is no Jack Johnson or Aaron Pryor my friends). The WWE fans who buy his pay-per views don't hate him nor does the mainstream audience that bought or watched UFC 100 out of curiosity. Lesnar to them represents an anchor, something that is familiar and already quantifiable, as they dive into an unfamiliar and foreign sport. Put it this way, Lesnar is the easy thing for newcomers to understand and that's alright with such a complex sport as MMA. 

...

What actually happened on Saturday night was the mainstream soaking up the bizarre spectacle that was Lesnar's rant amidst a chorus of boos. The story became attached to the tirade itself not the source that precipitated Lesnar's speech. The hate and vitriol that everyone is now discussing doesn't come from Lesnar's comments, it comes from a different source, the actual fans of mixed martial arts. This constituency's feelings and opinions have been co-opted into a convenient narrative by outsiders and detractors. Ultimately the mainstream's discussion of villainy fails because it fails to address the offended party. Now whether the offense is justified or not is whole other story. But I for one don't believe UFC 100 was the birth of next Jack Johnson.
Then wrestling/MMA blog Ring Psychology takes a different tack, that of the former WWE fan trying to close the door on his past:
Professional wrestling in this day and age is little more than the old guy at the club. Awkward, out of place and completely oblivious to reality. I, like most intelligent 30 somethings, have left pro wrestling in my rear view mirror. I have reached a point in my life where having once been a wrestling fan is as much of an embarrassment as having once been a fan of Limp Bizkit. I have taken my wrestling dvds and attire and placed them in a box in the closet that also contains my red Yankees hat, hatchet gear and other items of eternal shame. Pro wrestling is a chapter of my past that I had assumed was long since closed.
...

As Brock began slobbering and mocking a dude he just beat the hell out of I felt something in my gut start to bubble...It wasn’t something I ate. It was something entirely different. Something… sinister. The past was attempting to resurface. MY past was attempting to resurface. This gurgling feeling continued to grow as Brock flipped off the booing crowd and then proceeded to rant and generally make an ass out himself. MMA was supposed to be my safe haven. My place of refuge. Brock had taken something that I had left for dead and revived it. Only it wasn’t the same as it was before. It was different. Perverse. As Jud Crandell in Pet Sematary said: “Sometimes dead is better”.

Brock’s antics have shown me that I cannot outrun my past as a wrestling fan so I may as well embrace it. S--t.

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Eventually there will be a super heavy weight class as a fight between a 207 fighter and a 265 fighter is the equivalent of shinya aoki vs fedor. If mma devolves to a bigger man smothering a smaller opponent throwing short punches until hes out much of the magic of mma is lost. There was probably resistance from fans when there was only two weight classes which turned to five, im sure there will be more resistance when 5 turns to 6. But the sport evolves to bring us more compelling matches to mma fans.

PS I thought there were athletic commission laws which says u cant outweight your opponent by a certain amount.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

there are

and 60 pounds is that limit for heavyweights.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

60 pounds? damn its funny to think you can outweight someone that much as a hw but in other divisions if your overweight by 2 or 3 pounds that can make all the difference in the world.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s about percentages, there’s a difference between 5 pounds when you’re 150 and 5 pounds when you’re at 205.

by Phildo on Jul 15, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In this case though its a 5 pound difference at 155 which is probably max they would allow a light weight. A five pound difference at light weight is like 3%. But the weight difference brock brings which is like 40 pounds at 265. something like 20% more in body weight.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many heavyweights can you
name other than Randy Couture who weigh less than 240?

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 2:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

And I should say Fedor too but I’m talking UFC heavyweights.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 2:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

scary isn’t it

watchkalibrun.com

by Zak Woods on Jul 15, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HS wrestling does the same thing

It’s 189, 215 and 285. It USED to be 189 THEN 275. A lot of states didn’t adopt 215 until about 5 years ago. The big jump between 200 lbs and the upper limit of heavyweight isn’t a new concept.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

and I have reason to believe the UFC and many working on updating the MMA rule set are all for a 205-230lb and a 231 to 265lbs division.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

im not saying they need to do it now.. but once it becomes apparent that the 235+ guys generally have a size advantage that cant be overcome by skill then its necessary.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t understand why people think that is necessarily a given.

Fedor beat Sylvia and HMC, Randy beat Tim and Gonzaga, Mir beat Lesnar the first time.

Brock wins 2 fights and everyone is acting like the only reason he won is because he’s a giant, it’s just not the case. The little guy still can beat the big guy.

60 pounds is a lot, but it’s not impossible for the little guy to win.

by Phildo on Jul 15, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

that Brock’s very real technical skill as a wrestler is getting slept on.
But I think that Sylvia (and to a lesser extent Gonzaga) represents a less athletic giant than what we’re seeing with Lesnar — a 280lb fighter with the speed and reflexes of a welterweight.
As the money draws more behemoths into the sport, the splitting of divisions will be inevitable.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brock is just the first and best in a new breed of super hw’s that the sport has yet to come to grips yet like lashley and carwin. They are coming slowly buy inevitably.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don’t get why people talk about Lashley being like Brock or Carwin. He wrestled at a much lower weight, 211lb, while Lesnar has been huge his entire life.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what I thought, and did a quick Google check, which had him internationally ranked at 96kg = 211lb.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And don't forget

More divisions means more champs, which means more championship fights to sell on PPV. It’s a win-win for everyone, as long as you have the depth of talent to sustain both weight classes.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

60 pounds is a lot, but it’s not impossible for the little guy to win.

Of course. But personally I, and I think many others, would rather see a fight where each fighter is on somewhat even ground to begin with – where it is a match to see who is the better fighter, rather than “Can the little man overcome all the odds beat the bigger man?”.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but isn’t that very question kind of important to mixed martial arts?

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 15, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that question was answered years ago

here’s the answer: No.

Not if both fighters are equally skilled and equally athletic.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have reason to believe the UFC and many working on updating the MMA rule set are all for a 205-230lb and a 231 to 265lbs division.

One can hope.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Will they consider raising the 265?

by jrobb20 on Jul 15, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea. I’m not sure why an upper limit exists in the first place, if the contention is that size doesn’t matter at heavyweight.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like it would possibly create more competition for Brock. To remove the limit that is.

I wonder if the limit is there because of all the political hand wringing a few years back? Anyone?

by jrobb20 on Jul 15, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's a superheavyweight class

of 266lbs +

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's odd that it's 265.

HS and collegiate wrestling in the US use 285 as the upper limit. Odd that UFC and other MMA use a limit that’s 20 lbs. below the HS limit for wrestling.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they have a super heavyweight class

that’s 265lbs plus.
No one’s getting punched in the head in wrestling.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haven't been to a HS match in NJ lately, have you? :)

Some of those youth tournaments, I swear… the dads of 6 year olds can be nasty…

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could be a case of him not admitting it, but during Danas address at the expo, when asked if he believed the heavyweight division should be further divided by another weight class, he said he believed if you were able to cut to 205 you should, if not, then the way it is now is fine. I tend to believe at this point it would be very hard to do, due to lack of people to fill these extra weight classes. And again, although his size gives him an advantage, if size were everything, Bob Sapp would be the best fighter in the world.

by metaldome on Jul 15, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And again, although his size gives him an advantage, if size were everything, Bob Sapp would be the best fighter in the world.

No, this guy would be.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The hate that everyone is imagining really just isn’t there. Yes, some newspaper columnists are whining, but most sports fans nowadays don’t read newspapers and think that most columnists are out of touch. These are the sampe people that refuse to accept the fact that OPS and the new baseball stats actually have meaning and can be useful.

This is a small sample size, but I overheard some coworkers talking about “the fights” and asked them what they though of them. None of them are big MMA fans, they all said Brock Lesnar, and especially his post fight interview was awesome.

He may not be the biggest star in the world right now but I really don’t think many people are all that outraged by what happened, and there are definitely more people intrigued/interested than outraged, especially in the young male demographic.

by Phildo on Jul 15, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that's my point

what hate there is coems from MMA fans and only a selcet few (there just aren’t that many of us).

watchkalibrun.com

by Zak Woods on Jul 15, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its all because brock is destroying the magic of the smaller man can overcome size with better technique and experience. Its like watching Goliath beating David to a pulp. Its why people have so much pride in being a fedor fan as he is really a small hw. I can just imagine if brock just smothers fedor and just does that short punch routine to finish him hell really be closing that last chapter of david vs goliath, something that i really admired in mma in general (something we all admired with Royce as well).

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those people are ignoring skill, which is rather ironic considering they are pushing the skill beating size. Generally, a big skilled guy will beat a skilled small guy the majority of the time.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the thing about it to me

is that while Fedor’s very skilled technically, most of his wins come from his amazing explosiveness and uncanny ability to transition from one phase of mma to another — striking to set up takedowns, takedowns to subs, ground and pound to subs, etc etc.
Fedor’s almost the physical freak that Lesnar is, he just doesn’t look as imposing. You can’t see reflexes and punching power at the weigh in.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think fedors explosive hips are strong enough to create enough space to buck brock off, i know randy was able to get up, but in fedors case his punching power makes all the difference.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Brock is using skill.

What is the difference between Mir/Lesnar 1 and Mir/Lesnar 2? If Brock was just being a monster and smothering people with his size, he would have beaten Mir the first time.

by Phildo on Jul 15, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to every Brock fan here

he would have if not for the stand up.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Jul 15, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

After watching their 2nd fight

did you not think the same thing would have eventually happened?

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Jul 15, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if’s and eventually’s are fun.

What if Eli Manning got sacked before he threw the ball to Tyree? Eventually, the Patriots would have won the super bowl

What if Rashad didn’t knock out Chuck with that punch? Eventually, Chuck would have caught him with an overhand right and knocked him out.

What if Matt Serra didn’t land that punch on GSP. Eventually, GSP would have taken him down and kneed him until he broke all of his ribs.

Brock got caught once, he can get caught again. People don’t want to admit it, but he showed skill in holding Mir down and not letting him do anything from his back.

by Phildo on Jul 15, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not talking about what if''s bud,

but you cannot overlook that outcome given their 2nd fight & how that fight was going.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Jul 15, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Brock puts Frank's leg where it needs to be...

then he’s gonna get submitted every time. The stand up wasn’t the reason he lost. Even Brock will tell you that.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not all of us Brock fans are unreasonable, myth :)

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Brock fan, and I don't think that

I watched the Countdown to UFC 100 promo, and Brock narrated through the 2 mistakes he made to give Mir the submission hold he used. That’s why Brock was so mad – he KNEW he’d made a rookie mistake. Sure, would have been nice if they hadn’t been stood up, but Brock gave Mir the setup for the submission, and Brock (and Mir) knew it. That’s what lost him the 1st fight.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

its funny how people are almost blaming Brock of cheating for being too big and fast. If he was just a normal big man who was also slow and not athletic then there wouldnt be a problem but because hes big and athletic then its just not fair.

by brazary on Jul 15, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m beginning to hate Lesnar for, if nothing else, every other sodding article I read now is about him!

by -Sam on Jul 15, 2009 2:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha

I can understand that. I love the guy but yeah, GSP put on an amazing performance that no one remembers now

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 15, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I consider myself an active fan of MMA

and I have a healthy dislike (though not outright hatred) of Brock. My feelings about him have nothing to do with his former connections with WWE. I know more often than not the pre-fight build-up is mostly for show, but I always appreciated the sportsmanship shown between fighters when a match is complete. I’m a BJ Penn fan, and I was genuinely disappointed when he did the whole blood licking thing. Perhaps if Brock had built up more cache with me as a fan, I would be more likely to overlook and apologize for his faults.

by rzor on Jul 15, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

dingdingding

Something that bugs me is the current nonsense that people dislike Lesnar because of the WWE. Maybe some do, but I would think that most dislike him because of the way he acts and things he does. Saying that it’s due to him being a former WWE superstar is a huge cop out and so simplistic that people eat it up.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never heard of Brock Lesnar before the first time I saw his name on this very blog/site. WWE is on tv every week where I live, but I just never watch pro wrestling (well I watched it like 15 years ago but that’s it). So for me brock is just a GREAT competitor, very mysterious, I really can’t understand what goes through his mind, very emotional and very impulsive. Some sees WWE in there, I don’t know about WWE nor do I care, so I only see a short tampered (borderline homophobic) guy getting pissed (for good reasons IMO). I personally don’t like nor like his style but I respect his talent and the effectiveness of his style, so I’m not rooting for him but hope to see him fight again.

by spectaa on Jul 15, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t think there’s anything borderline about his homophobia…

by -Sam on Jul 15, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you don't like him for the post-match stuff

than I’d argue, as a Brock fan, you have a pretty good reason not to like him. I can totally see where that would turn people off Brock as a fighter and a personality. Me? I loved it. But I’m not the most balanced person in the world, either.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

A big tip of the hat to you, sir. A Brock fan who can understand that simple concept!

See people? It is possible to like, and not like, Lesnar and still act like an adult! If only more people could do that.. Kudos, duck.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've watched Brock since he was at UMinn

and he’s a quiet guy 95% of the time, but when he gets mad, he says stupid things. Stupid things that, 95% of the time, I find hilarious.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As an addendum

that may seem way off as an example, but I remember watching an episode of Iron Chef where the American Chef Bobby Flay challenged the Japanese Chef Masaharu Morimoto. After Flay won, he jumped up on the counter and did a fist pump thing or something to celebrate, while Chef Morimoto watched, horrified. It was totally out of line on a show where the Japanese competitors traditionally showed respect toward one another, and ever since then I’ve considered Bobby Flay a cocky punk and can’t stand him.

In summary, Brock Lesnar is the Bobby Flay of MMA.

by rzor on Jul 15, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In summary, Brock Lesnar is the Bobby Flay of MMA.

Marked. This may be the first, and probably the last, time this sentence is ever said. :)

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, it was the unintentional disrespect to the cutting board by standing on it that was the issue. Flay did not know understand significance of what he did.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"MMA was supposed to be my safe haven. My place of refuge.:

This is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Jul 15, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think its what they call

tongue in cheek

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How come nobody was crying about the huge weight differential when Fedor fought Tim Sylvia? Because Sylvia got killed? Seems like an odd double-standard. As long as the smaller guy is good enough to beat the bigger guy then it’s ok, but if the bigger guy is actually good then it’s not ok.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 2:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Your exactly right. But this double standard is not odd at all. No one wants to see the big guy win, its a fact of life. People love underdogs and being smaller in fighting generally makes spectators perceive you as being an underdog. (or increases the likelihood that you can be beat).

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s one thing to simply dislike the guy because he’s bigger than everyone else, it’s another to totally hate everything he is and everything he does. If Forrest Griffin said something about jumping on his wife after he beat Rampage everyone would have laughed, Brock says it and he’s an asshole.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yyeeaahh

I think it was more than that one comment.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really, people thought Brock Lesnar was an asshole the minute Dana White signed him. I’m not just talking about that one comment, I’m talking about his entire MMA career.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What “people”? Various people dislike him for various reasons. I’ve already stated I started to dislike him after the Herring fight, and not when he was signed (I liked him after the first Mir fight).

So not sure why you think people should suddenly hate Forrest for saying something about jumping on his wife.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is the same way for a lot of sports though.

Non-Yankee fans love it when they lose because of their huge payroll & hate to see them win because of their huge payroll. It is the same principal & some people just never get it.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Jul 15, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watching the Lesnar / Mir fight, I was oddly reminded of Rocky iV (as well as during the Henderson / Bisping fight). Remember when Apollo Creed was fighting Ivan Drago and Drago just stalked Creed, absorbing ineffective punches, looking to land that one big shot? Well, now that Brock has been able to control his emotions in the octagon and slow things down, he is just looking to get the inevitable takedown, smother the guy then ground and pound out a victory. If he can just protect himself from a flash knockout by keeping the hands up, chin tucked, and move forward, he’ll get his hands on the other fighter eventually. Even after Mir rocked him, Lesnar took him down, waited until he got his senses back then started slamming him with cinder blocks. Mir wasn’t able to get out from underneath him or do anything from his back when that would have been the ideal time to attempt a sweep. But really could anyone perform a sweep with a close to 300 pound wrestling champion keeping you pinned? With due respect to great stand up fighters like Silva and Machida, there are far more examples of dominant fighters with excellent skills at the ground and pound. It doesn’t matter who you are, Lesnar’s sheer size and power will eventually overwelm you. It will be frightening to see what happens once he learns to start striking with accuracy and starts nailing people right on the chin. Until then I guess we’ll all have to settle for him using those lunch box size fists to meat tenderize the face of anyone he faces. He’ll be champ for a while.

by pharmboy on Jul 15, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I felt the bubbling as well...

I would say that I am not 100% removed from wrestling fan, but I am getting there. Brock Lesar can not help it, for years he was paid rediculious amounts of money to learn to perform like that for the WWE. I just feel that he was finally perfecting the “Dick” at the extreme end of this professional career, and he has not let go of it. Kind of like he is hoping that if this falls through that he makes an easy transition back into Pro Wrestling. Anyway, I have an assload of wrestling figures that I have collected in the past, so if anyone wants to relive the days of old and buy some figures, I’m your man.

by AceHogg on Jul 15, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have taken my wrestling dvds and attire and placed them in a box in the closet that also contains my red Yankees hat, hatchet gear and other items of eternal shame.

I sincerely hope that Affliction type print T shirts, one size too small of course, end up in the same box very shortly. Its not cool anymore because they have lost any meaning they once had.

by ryanwk628 on Jul 15, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As a former high school wrestler, I can say the guys I wrestled with and around are not the same as the guys at the MMA academy I train at now. The guys I wrestled with were mean dudes that probably all would have done the same thing Lesnar did saturday night.

If you add to that the fact he spent years cutting promos for WWE, he has become himself amplified. Why can’t MMA fans just accept that guys come from different backgrounds?

My high school wrestling coach is very different from my MMA instructors. They teach humility, and respect for your opponent. My wrestling coach taught me to hate my opponent, before, during, and after a match. Lesnar was much likely treated the same way thoughout his wrestling days.

by traydawg on Jul 15, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why can’t MMA fans just accept that guys come from different backgrounds?

I think we do. I just don’t think it’s much of an excuse, especially considering how many former amateur wrestlers are in MMA, and don’t act like that.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mythbuster,

I am not saying all wrestlers act like that, I am saying wrestling culture is different from MMA culture. Sure there are some cool guys in wrestling, but the culture is different from MMA. That’s my point. Lots of good wrestlers are/were cocky “I’ll beat your ass” kinda guys. Much different from say, Machida.

My personal lessons from wrestling were hard work, hard work, and a chip on my shoulder. Brock has that same chip. I’m just stating i don’t think average Joe MMA fan gets that part. It seems many fans think he is just some sort of abnormality, some generic asshole.

The truth is I can think of twenty guys I know personally that were high school/college wrestlers and they all have similar personalities. They are cool dudes but if you talk smack, they will smash you. Not only smash you but flip you off afterwards.

by traydawg on Jul 15, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand your point about amateur wrestlers, and I know it to be true (to a degree). But the ability to separate competition from real life is a trait that most people should have, in my opinion. When competing, absolutely – go all out (within the law, of course). But when the competition is over, it’s time to go back to being human.

In any case, I would rather see more Coutures than Lesnars, in terms of respect and class.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy is no saint, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear Lesnar is a better private person than Couture is.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couture doesn’t shack up in the backwoods and says things like “I don’t like gay people”. I’m just saying.

by Zack Gobie on Jul 15, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So living in a forest is now a moral failing?

I won’t defend anyone’s homophobic remarks, but since when did living in a rural setting become a bad thing?

And I say this as a person who lives a mile away from roads with lines on them.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many wives has Couture gone through? Wasn’t he in court this past year? Lesnar may not like gay people, but I don’t hear him always spouting that off every chance he gets, rather it is the people saying they don’t like him for his views that say it so often. I don’t fault a man for his views, only for his actions.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, and I love Randy Couture, but that whole Captain America thing doesn’t really wash outside the cage.

I don’t want to hear anything about John Elway’s personal life, either. Best QB since Otto Graham.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 16, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My only problem is that Lesnars size gives him an unfair advantage. People can bring up Sapp and other big guys to try to refute this but what is the reasoning behind weight classes in the first place. I mean BJ penn could probably beat alot of middle weights but that doesnt mean we should allow fighters to be outweighed by 30-40lbs. Why does the logic of “weighing 40 lbs more than your opponent is unfair” start to break down at 207 and above.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 15, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

100% in agreement. Let’s not forget that Lesnar has to cut weight to make 265 then probably gains 20 pounds after the weigh in. Herring, Mir x 2 and Couture in all likelihood just showed up at a weight they felt comfortable at knowing there was no way they’d exceed the 265 pound limit. What we have in Lesnar is the first gifted heavyweight that is able to cut enough weight to make the limit and yet climb into the ring with that huge weight advantage. Its really no different than fighters like Thiago Alves who cut weight from 200 pounds in order to fight at welterweight. The advantage is just so much more pronounced here since there can be such a huge range in weight for the heaveyweight division. He’s doing absolutely nothing wrong, just acting totally within the current rules and utilizing his huge weight and strength advantages.

by pharmboy on Jul 15, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn’t give him an unfair advantage, he competes within the rules of his sport, he’s not the one who invented the weight class, this was established long before he came about. Tim Sylvia has to cut to make 265, how come nobody was bitching about his size advantage when he lost to Randy Couture? Oh, that’s right, because the little guy was better. Brock just happens to be the better fighter now so everyone thinks it’s unfair.Mir could have put on an extra ten pounds if he wanted, he chose to come in at 245 and he knew Brock would weigh 30 pounds more. Nobody said anything about this last time they fought.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 15, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 15, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

Size doesn’t mean invisible. If your opponent is bigger, be faster. If he’s stronger, use angles. Don’t stand in front of him. These are basic concepts boxers, wrestlers, and I’d imagine, adherents of just about every other form of martial arts learn.

Brock DOES have to cut to 265. He follows the rules. He weighs in the same time the other guy does. And it’s not like you don’t know going in how big he is.

Someday, and it may even be within the next 12 months, someone will beat Brock with speed, angles, and leverage. And I like Brock. But he’s not invincible. Even Dan Gable lost once.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Size doesn’t mean invisible

Unless you’re really really small ;)

But anyway, as has been said already in other places, it shouldn’t be about “can the little man overcome the big man”, but rather “who is the better fighter”.

And also, despite people repeating it, no one is accusing Brock of cheating.

("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)

by mythbuster on Jul 15, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My typing = teh suck

But you get my point. :)

And I guess I don’t have much sympathy for those who say Brock wins due to size. My last match as a HS wrestling coach was my 228 lb. 5’11" heavyweight schooling a kid who was 250+, and his semifinal was a kid who was 6’6" who had to cut to get to 285. Managed to beat them both due to skill and quickness and not doing anything stupid, like standing in front of them for anything length of time. It can be done.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 15, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who is the better fighter

This was answered on Saturday. It was Brock Lesnar

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 15, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I had no clue who Brock was until he signed with the UFC.

Based on what I have seen so far I would be a massive Brock fan if he wasn’t an ignorant homophobe.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 15, 2009 8:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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