Lorenzo Fertitta Speaks: Teammates Will Fight and Fedor Emelianenko is Irrelevant to the Public
by Kid Nate on Jul 13, 2009 7:33 PM EDT
in News
104 comments
UFC owner Lorenzo Fertitta has been talking a bit and when the king speaks, it behooves us to listen. First in the LA Times he talks Fedor:
"Right now, Fedor's completely irrelevant to the public," Fertitta said. "His pay-per-view numbers have been 12,000, 30,000, and now Affliction is saying he'll get 100,000 [against Josh Barnett]. I'll take the under-70,000. We average 500,000 buys and we expect 1 million for this one.
"Fedor wants to use UFC for a fight to be relevant, and then leave and do his own thing. That's not our business model."
...
"We spend more money for marketing than anyone has ever spent on Fedor," Fertitta said. "If I bring in Fedor, we'll make him the most recognizable face in MMA, but we also want to recoup on our investment. You wouldn't sign Tom Brady for one game. So why do I want to sign this guy for one fight?"
And Five Ounces of Pain reports he talked about teammates vs teammate fights and how they're not optional:
"At the end of the day, we are here to see fighters and we are here to see fights," Fertitta said when asked about the potential of teammate vs. teammate match-ups.
"If teammates don’t want to fight, then they are just going to have to go somewhere else," he continued. "We don’t put up with that stuff.
"That’s just the way it is. You step up. You’re a UFC fighter and I don’t care who it is, you have to fight."
Looks like Jon Fitch is bucking the company line again, per Zach Arnold:
"We train as a team. If two people from our team were to fight each other, who trains with what training partner? Who trains with what trainer? Who gets to use the gym and when? It just doesn’t add up. We’d have to tear our team apart and split our camp in half in order to make one fight happen. It’s not worth it. We’ve worked very hard the last seven, eight years to build up AKA and we’re not going to throw it away for one fight."
As much as I'd love to see Fitch vs either of his American Kickboxing Academy teammates Josh Koscheck or Mike Swick, I can see where he's coming from. Stephan Bonner basically got exiled from Xtreme Couture because Mark Coleman came in to train there and clearly his performance suffered.
Regardless, Fitch probably will have to back down again. Fertitta after all is a man who could afford to turn down a $1.2 billion offer for the UFC.
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The Fedor part makes sense, but I just can’t get behind forcing teammates to fight teammates. Maybe in the future teams/camps won’t be so rigidly established—things seem to be moving that way—but for now I think Fitch is right.
by An Old Friend on Jul 13, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it’s inconvenient for guys in smaller camps to fight each other. But somewhere like AKA, ATT, MFS, etc. there are a lot of trainers and a lot of partners to go around. Especially if you spar guys who fight like your opponent, there shouldn’t be much overlap if Fitch were to go against Koscheck.
That sucks for Stephan Bonnar. He basically got told to take a hike from XC simply because he’s not the Hall of Famer. It’s hard to say if not being able to train normally hampered Bonnar at all but it certainly couldn’t have helped. I’d take it pretty personally if I got ditched for some over-the-hill has-been. Then again, maybe it was Stephan’s idea. I don’t really know too much more than anyone else about the subject.
by Ahhhoki on Jul 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bonnar is as much of a has been as Coleman.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 7:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Bonnar is more of a never was and could have been.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His comments on Fedor were dead on. Did he read my post on this earlier?
by pharmboy on Jul 13, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just heard a quote of your post on CNN.
by spectaa on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From everything we’ve read about the negotiations between the UFC and Fedor’s management in the past, the hangups have never really been about Fedor receiving a one-fight deal. Lorenzo is just moving the goalposts here in order to appear like the rational agent in this mess. I mean, what sort of idiot would agree to a one-fight deal with Fedor. Obviously that’s not something the UFC would do in their right mind. The UFC’s head honcho is just burning a giant straw man for PR purposes because he knows fanboys, and unwitting media members alike, will eat it up and say “See! I told you the UFC was right!. Ooh hahaha crazy Russians!”
Lorenzo knows well enough what the issues are with signing Fedor. The main point of contention, as best we can tell, has been the champion’s clause, which we’ve heard Fedor personally complain about. Fedor doesn’t want to become champion and have to keep fighting beyond the amount of fights agreed upon. Whether or not you think that is reasonable of Fedor is a different matter. Regardless, it’s the issue that gets brought up the most by Fedor’s camp in the press.
I’m sure both sides are full of shit to some degree, but let’s not fall for silly little ploys such as the one Lorenzo just offered up.
by a tommy point on Jul 13, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t Fedro have one fight deals in Pride?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t Pride dead? lol
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Jul 13, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get the Championship Clause
Fedor doesn’t want to become champion and have to keep fighting beyond the amount of fights agreed upon.
Does that mean that A. Silva is stuck fighting for UFC unless he takes a fall in a fight losing his belt?
Does anybody have the actual clause on the UFC contract?
by fuzzy wuzzy on Jul 13, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
@fuzzy wuzzy: You have to defend the title at least once after you win it.
Fedor wants a one-and-done deal.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Jul 13, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely wrong.
The champion’s clause is, by most accounts, at least three extra fights beyond the end of the contract (assuming the fighter holds onto the title). And even after that clause period is up it’s not clear whether or not the fighter can leave to fight elsewhere.
As for Fedor wanting a one-fight deal, the only time that exact thing has even been broached was when M1 asked the UFC to co-promote a fight. The UFC rightfully laughed in their faces and that was that. Fedor was apparently fine with a multi-fight contract, but he and his people claim they want a concrete way out.; being bound by exclusivity for an indeterminate about of time is a deal breaker, I guess.
I’m sure this will get resolved when the Fertittas back up a Brinks truck to Fedor’s house and he forgets all about whatever differences he has with the UFC business model.
by a tommy point on Jul 13, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The champion’s clause is 3 fights or one year, and has never been used before. Every single UFC champion since the clause was introduced has been signed to a new contract before the clause would go into effect. It is there to prevent the BJ Penn and Pulver scenarios, where they won the belt and then left the promotion.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had never heard about them turning down a $1+ billion offer for the UFC, does it scare anyone else to think what might happen to our sport if Dana White and the Fertitta’s were no longer controlling it?
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, because I don’t actually believe that Dana White is the only one who knows how to run a fight promotion.
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think there’s some guarantee that whoever bought the UFC would necessarily be someone who knows how, though?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, obviously there are people that would run the UFC into the ground, but I think that other companies would fill the void. The sport HAS grown, and isn’t going anywhere, absent something catastrophic happening.
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sport HAS grown, and isn’t going anywhere, absent something catastrophic happening.
I bet there were a lot of PRIDE fans saying the same back in 2003.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are we even discussing something like this. We’ll never no. Well, no, we will eventually, if someone find himself in the position to do the same thing he did, with equal or superior skills/passion/dedication.
by spectaa on Jul 13, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet there were a lot of PRIDE fans saying the same back in 2003.
And so far, they’d be right. PRIDE died, but UFC, DREAM, and Sengoku, as well as a whole host of other promotions, filled the void.
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not in Japan
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jul 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, I was referring to the Japanese MMA fans. They don’t get to see the majority of the best fighters and it’s not like DREAM and Sengoku are thriving. It’s conceivable that the same type of thing could happen to the UFC with someone else running it.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you said “our sport.” I had no idea that MMA was only relevant to you if it happened in the US.
Given that assumption, I guess it’s possible that if something happens to White, Fertitta, Silva and Company, even a UFC that endures might have its problems staying competitive on the world stage, and the US might no longer be the place that the most important fights happen. But I’m okay with the sport reaching its ceiling in the US, as long as it becomes legal in all 50 states, and continues to spread worldwide.
That’s the thing: the UFC is a shell to me. If it can’t provide the framework and the infrastructure for the growth of the sport, and some other framework and infrastructure takes shape, I won’t really shed a tear. If the UFC, under new management, gets run into the ground, I would HOPE that all of you wouldn’t cling to it out of a sense of blind loyalty. Be a fan, and follow the fights/fighters that you like and want to see. You don’t owe the sport any more than that.
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And furthermore, even a UFC that that generally operating in positive ways (as I think is the case currently, and has been the case for the majority of its existence) can still be criticized, challenged, and driven to improve. As fans, we should demand nothing less.
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 13, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cleave to the ideal of the best fighters in the world fighting under one promotion that facilitates teh best fighting the best. Currently that is the UFC. What I don’t like is people attacking them for being successful and building their brand.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are probably talking past each other, as I don't know that we disagree.
However: not every critique rises to the level of an attack, nor is every critique (nor indeed every attack for that matter) directed at the UFC due to their success. There are innumerable things to complain about legitimately and fairly. The editorials some MSM guys published today calling the UFC bloodsport and so on—those are attacks.
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 14, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dislike hit jobs and people making judgments with very little if any sources to back it up. I think honest and meaningful criticism is important, but there are a lot of people just lambasting them with unfounded and poorly thought out attacks. That is what I do not like.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think the casual fanbase know alot beyond the UFC...
just last night i was watching UFC 100 with my brother (a new and casual fan). At one point i said something about MMA. He responded with “whats MMA?” After telling him its mixed martial arts he said “why didnt you just say UFC?”
by milson on Jul 13, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Shane McMahon? He actually tried convincing his pops to buy it. I believe he would run it. My guess is if it were vince, he would eliminate all the divisions except the 205 knowing hard-on for bodybuilding looking types
by The Bronzeville Bully on Jul 13, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, Shane McMahon is much more balanced and reasonable than his father is, so if he were running an MMA promotion I don’t think he’d eliminate the lower weight classes. And I believe it was actually Pride that the WWE was briefly interested in, before deciding that it wouldn’t be workable.
by Chromium on Jul 13, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know Shane wouldn’t do it, but Vince would knowing him. You’re right Shane was interested in Pride. And, he was also trying to convince Vince to buy UFC, when the Fertittas wanted out of it when they were bleeding money. Vince, I believe was one of the bidders.
by The Bronzeville Bully on Jul 13, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, so tell me who else does? Because he has been the only one so far. You gonna bring in Jared Shaw?
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s because he has acknowledged the UFC’s supremacy over the marketplace and doesn’t foolishly try to compete with them for free agents.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is a wise, prudent decision, befitting someone who knows how to run a fight promotion.
by JRN on Jul 13, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Coker has done well, but running Strikeforce is quite different from running the UFC. Could he do it? Maybe, but it’s not a given.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 7:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You can drop the walla walla walla now, cause I’m the idiot.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's lack of senses, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by Ubernoober on Jul 13, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woo hoo!
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 13, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fukin hate the sens.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's lack of senses, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by Ubernoober on Jul 13, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m really, really glad I won that bet. The sig with weo would suck, but not like having the Chiefs logo next to my every thought.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should put this in their contract if it’s not already the case. You can’t refuse to fight a teammate, that’s it. Then teams would have to be prepared for this eventuality. If they can prepare themselves maybe it can be done. I can see how this would be awkward after the fight though.
by spectaa on Jul 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
AKA has three guys contending for the WW title. How can they not fight each other. If I was Dana, I wouldn’t let one of those guys (Swick, Fitch or Koscheck) get near GSP without eliminating one of the other two guys.
by pwdminotauro on Jul 13, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jon’s comments come off as pretty whiny there. The biggest issue is scheduling and sharing the trainers? Well, whoopdie fucking doo.
themachiavellian pointed me to the fact that Coleman and Bonnar are on the same team and Mark got to train with Randy and Shawn Thompkins while Bonnar did not. That would be a pretty ballsy thing to blame your loss on, Stephan, and I hope you don’t.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s pretty shitty if you ask me. Training Coleman is one thing, but training him to fight a guy they’ve been training for years is sleazy.
I’m guessing they had some insight into Steph’s weaknesses and ways to beat him, eh?
by jebushchrist on Jul 13, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Subo supporting the UFC = Free Hat!
by a tommy point on Jul 13, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll say the same thing if two teammates in Strikeforce at the top of the division don’t want to fight, I’d say the same thing to Anderson if Filho had won and come to the UFC. It was a valid excuse. It’s not anymore. Figure it out.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you train, the entire camp is training with you and switching off on sparring partners, even vastly outside your weight class, to get the best balance of other people’s strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is helping everyone else improve for their respective fights. If you have two guys training against each other in the same camp, you are segregating half the fucking camp for that one fight for just two of the camp’s members. It emotionally tears it apart as well, and the camps with the strongest bonds also tend to be some of the best camps around. There’s a reason why Xtreme Couture had to make a decision between Coleman and Bonnar (not that I agree that they should have chosen Coleman over an established member of their team), or why Diego Sanchez left Greg Jackson’s camp when he decided he had his eyes set on GSP’s belt, even though GSP only does part of his training there. There is a reason you almost never see teammates fight. It’s bad for the camp, it bad for the entire team, it’s just a horrible situation all around and you have no idea what you’re talking about.
by Chromium on Jul 13, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. Members of Greg Jackson’s camp talk about it as a family, as if they’re brothers in arms. These guys are teaching each other their skills and their tricks, and improving together as a result of it. If you might be forced to fight one of your teammates down the road, would you still be able to learn from each other in such an open environment, or would you find yourself keeping your best techniques to yourself?
by Meeaaat on Jul 13, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally you would go out and fight hard, because you are fighting your brother and you are damn sure not gonna half ass it. My favorite fight of all time is Pete Sell/Scott Smith. They were beating the shit out of each other and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it because they were friends. That fight hooked me on MMA even before the awesome ending.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who gets to use the gym and when? It just doesn’t add up.
Can we get these guys a copy of Outlook or Thunderbird or something? I mean, scheduling the gym?
Double-you Tee Eff?
by asa on Jul 15, 2009 5:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nuff said.
“Fedor wants to use UFC for a fight to be relevant, and then leave and do his own thing. That’s not our business model.”
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It really mazes me how many people have actually argued with that point.
by asa on Jul 15, 2009 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt that Fedor is trying to screw the UFC over. Fedor has even said that he refuses to fight in the UFC because of things such as the champion’s clause.
by Chuck Sakuraba on Jul 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Finkie controls Fedro, and has his own promotion, M-1 Global. He absolutely wants to use the UFC to make his promotion more well known.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Panthers fan, I would be thrilled if we singed Tom Brady for one game. Preferably a playoff game.
At any rate, it really doesn’t matter how true it is that the UFC doesn’t need Fedor to prove anything or to suceed in what they are about, as it can’t change the fact that I (and a few other people) really enjoy watching Fedor and consider him one of the best combat sports figures of all time. This being the internet, this gives me an infinite number of reasons to consider the UFC incomplete in his absense.
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I (and a few other people)
Most pertinent part of your post. Dana/Lorenzo do not make company decisions based on the interests of a few people.
They can’t perfectly please ANYBODY. Their job is to make money for themselves and for the fighters while providing a quality product for the most fans.
by Foxskinrug on Jul 13, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say they should please everybody, I didn’t even say they should please me.
The UFC is not, and will never be, beyond all criticism. It’s not a religion. It’s a sport. No sport, league, promoter, president, team, or individual athlete is beyond criticism. Not having a one of the best fighters in the world in the UFC is a very legitimate thing to gripe about.
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 13, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, if they brought in Fedor tomorrow morning, I might go to sleep wishing they could come to terms with Josh Barnett. It’s well within the realm of reasonable discussoin, and a far cry better than worrying about things that don’t actually have any direct impact on fightsport, such as post fight celebrations.
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 13, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fertitta after all is a man who could afford to turn down a $1.2 billion offer for the UFC.
That is insane, I love the UFC but turning down a billion dollar offer in a recession is beyond and above what I expect anyone to do. This is the reason why I root for Zuffa, because they actually care about the sport no one would blame them for selling a company for a billion dollars more than they paid for it. But they didn’t they continue to spend money to make mma legal in all states and bigger world wide, I fear for the day that anyone but Dana and the Fertitta’s aren’t running the UFC because it might be the start of the end for mma’s rise.
by Raker on Jul 13, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It would suck though,
in the second round, when you had to bring Jake Delhomme in…
Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 13, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happens if two teammates decide to collude to earn a Fight of the Night bonus?
What happens if two teammates put on Silva-Leites or Quarry-Starnes?
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, it always takes 2 guys colluding to get fight of the night.
And if 2 guys decide to put on a shitty fight, I’d suggest they look at Starnes’ (and Leites’) career trajectory after those fights.
by jebushchrist on Jul 13, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happens if the champion and the #1 contender belong to the same camp?
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A situation known as a Klitschkoism.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's lack of senses, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by Ubernoober on Jul 13, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this is why it’s not in UFC’s (or anyone else’s) interests to push this too hard. See also: Barnett vs. Monson.
by An Old Friend on Jul 13, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I might be wrong, but didnt Stephon just started training at Xtreme Couture? I believe Jon Jones was his first fight after switching to the camp. And, I don’t remember seeing Shawn Tompkins in his corner against Jones. If I recall, wasn’t he training with Mark Dellogratte? Stephon likes to train at different gyms. He always been like that.
by The Bronzeville Bully on Jul 13, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I once sat next to Lorenzo and didn't even recognize him
True story. He looks much skinnier in person. Snappiest dresser at the joint though.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Jul 13, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn
Down goes Fedor.. down goes Fedor.
by Paradoxx on Jul 13, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mike Swick has said that he, Kos and Fitch would face each other for a title bout, if it came to that. Maybe he did not talk to Fitch about that??
"Money talks brother. Money talks, and I can guarantee you Jon Fitch would say the same thing.
“Unless it makes good sense, we have a good atmosphere. We’re good friends. I think unless it makes sense, it’s going to be very hard to get us to fight at this point in our careers.”
He continued, "Now if me, Jon Fitch and Mike Swick clean out the whole division like Anderson Silva did, then what else is there for us to do? We’ve got to fight each other and we would know that. It would be a mutual agreement that this is how it’s going to work and we fight each other.
“Right now, there’s probably not any sense for us to talk about it because there’s a lot of guys in that welterweight division that still need their butt’s kicked and the AKA boys are probably going to have to do that.”
Fitch may want to talk to his teammates, they seem to have slightly different views on the subject.
by Lynchman on Jul 13, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Fitch did say the same thing. He said he would never rob one of his stable mates of that big a payday, since it could change their families lives. But it’s gotta be a big enough payday.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Jul 13, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teammates are going to have to really suck it up and just let it happen. And you know what? If you are such good buddies and partners, say fuck it, train together and throw down in the cage. Figure out who gets who in their corner, come up with your own gameplan, and go try to win, regardless.
Come on guys, you’re fighters…adapt and overcome.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Jul 13, 2009 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a mutually transparent gameplan amongst fighters who train together would make a great fight, and would be a testament to their entire camp if it was highly competitive and back and forth.
They act like they’ve always had an exclusive camp and gym and never in their careers have they fought anyone they trained with.
Guys in regional shows usually train in the same area and with the same trainers, how is this any different?
If you want to be the best fighter and your teammate is the guy ahead of you, then are you going to give up your dream for his?
The point of this is to find out who is the best, and if you aren’t going to fight the best, or the next guy ahead of you, then just resign from the sport now.
by DirtyML on Jul 13, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So the 75% of fighters in the sport that know that they’ll never be the best, or are past their prime, or the guys who have lost to the champ definitively, those guys need to quit?
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me clarify lorenzo's comments
“Fedor wants to use UFC for a fight to be relevant, and then leave and do his own thing. That’s not our business model.”
which really means
’Fedor would smash whoever we could put in front of him and then leave as our champ, how could we claim to have the best when our heavyweight championship belt is in Stary Oskal?"
by WARMMA on Jul 13, 2009 9:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The most disgusting part is that I think you’re serious.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Jul 13, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It isn’t that Lorenzo thinks one way or the other. He might think Lesnar would smash Fedor 9 times out of 10, but that’s not the point. The point is, if the UFC is going to put their marketing muscle behind Fedor to give him a big push, and make him relevant to the fans, they want to be able to reap the rewards if their investment pays off. To allow him to just walk after investing in him would be stupid. You’d expect them to spend their resources just to set themselves up to be screwed? These guys are smart businessmen, and this is a pretty easy decision to make.
They want the best guys in the UFC, but they aren’t just going to throw their money away into a lose-lose situation.
by Meeaaat on Jul 13, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, they could just make the fight, without putting any marketing muscle behind him, and just reap the benefits of their minimum buyrate.
Surprisingly, spending money to promote a PPV, so that they get a few hundred thousand extra PPV buys isn’t a charitable endeavor. You’re right when you say that they don’t have to promote Fedor, but to act like, in order for this fight to be financially feasible for UFC, they have to reap ALL the benefits from that investment presumes a zero sum game that doesn’t in fact exist.
Tito Ortiz, Frank Shamrock, and Ken Shamrock helped to build up the UFC, and made big names for themselves in the process. The UFC has reaped rewards from the money they invested in promoting those guys, but not ALL of the money. And yet, none of these men are in the UFC.
It’s interesting that a company founded upon the principle of “let’s not be like boxing” utilizes a policy that is essentially, “if we can’t own you long term, then we won’t make fights with you, no matter how good you might be,” which has given rise to other companies following suit. And that has the potential to stand in the way of more big fights happening than it facilitates.
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By just having the fight be under the UFC, they are putting all their hard work on the line. There is something more important than PPV buys, and that is the UFC brand. That is where the best fight the best, and people buy UFC cards knowing what they will get. Having Fedro come in and win then walk away tarnishes the brand. The brand is far more important than immediate money, because it is guaranteed money down the line.
As for the boxing model, well each fighter is his own brand, and they look out for that just as much as the UFC. So rather than one big company, you have many many small ones competing with each other and doing their best to build their brand at the expense of the others. I would much rather watch the best fight the best than watch a lot of ducking.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. So if you’re a top-tier fighter, you’d rather have a boxing model, because you are in control of maximizing the value of your brand, without a company telling you that its brand gets primacy. This is especially true when you consider that losing harms your marketability, and an organizational promotion has an incentive to get you to beat in order to acquire your services as a reduced rate.
For up and comers, it’s trickier. The organizational model is great for fighters that don’t want to brand themselves, fighters who ironically are less valuable to these promotions, and more fungible. They get a steady diet of fights, but they are part of that dynamic of people buying “UFC cards knowing what they will get,” and may not stand out as either highly valued when they’re around, or incredibly missed when they’re gone. Good for the organization, but not great for the fighter.
And then there’s the mixed model, where fighters are branded under their gyms, which allows the success of one fighter to build the brand of the fight camp. This offers TREMENDOUS incentives for top tier fighters to train together, as their marketability is enhanced by virtue of being associated with each other. Thus, the AKA guys are not just interested in the UFC brand and the individual fighters’ brands, they’re interested in AKA being viewed as a gym that creates champions. Fighting each other might subvert that objective…especially when even the “guaranteed title shot” fighters may be competing for is subject to change.
I mean, if you’re Anderson Silva, and you helped to refine Lyoto Machida into the killer that he is today, do you want to face him, and be forced to expose the weaknesses and flaws in his game that you attempted to correct, which could lead to another opponent using them against him?
If Dan Henderson fights Jason Miller, despite trash talking and other antics, Hendo probably doesn’t throw that extra bomb on his boy. To some people, that proves that he reduces his “killer instinct” when facing a teammate. We fans may or may not feel good about that level of deference to the bonds between fighters, but giving fighters the option to turn down the fight eliminates that risk.
by madiq on Jul 14, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I’m missing something, but what is the value in building up the brand name of a gym that a fighter doesn’t own? It seems like the better long term decision is to build up one’s own name, then open a new gym—you know, the Matt Hughes model. I know you’re a great fan of the IFL model, but I don’t really think the all-star gym/camp/whatever has much appeal beyond a certain segment of the hardcore fanbase. We’re in agreement that teammates shouldn’t have to face teammates, but more for the reasons you mention toward the bottom of your post.
by An Old Friend on Jul 14, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say the Randy Couture model — Team Quest transitioning into Xtreme Couture — is a MUCH more proven model for fighters to emulate, don’t you think?
And I’d agree, it obviously is better for the fighters if the star fighter has some equity in the gym, but look at it this way: A fighter is much more likely to purchase a piece of the gym than purchase a piece of Zuffa.
by madiq on Jul 14, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(And just to clarify, you want to imagine the Team Quest-Xtreme Couture split as less acrimonious, with less Yoko.)
by madiq on Jul 14, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a correction, Machida refined Silva.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps, and it’s possible that they refined each other’s styles, but that just ends up making my point stronger, no?
by madiq on Jul 14, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re stretching my point a bit there. If they got Fedor under contract, it’s not that they have to promote him, it’s that they’d want to. They’ve got a massively marketable champ in Lesnar, but he needs a legitimate opponent to get fans to buy into the event. They need to sell the story of the confrontation to sell the PPV. Why settle for some meager buy rate when with their marketing push, they can make so much more. And I’m not saying that they need to reap all of the benefits from the investment in resources. As you bring up with Tito et al, Fedor would obviously get a percentage of the PPV. The marketing of the UFC is to the financial benefit of both the fighter and the organization.
The point is that if they got him under contract, they would push his name hard. If he wins, and pays off, they want him to be there as their champ, since he not only benefits from their marketing push for the PPV, but also from inheriting the title of UFC Heavyweight Champion and all of the years of investment and relevancy behind that belt. To give Fedor the opportunity to enter the UFC, win, and walk out with all of this would just be idiotic. Instead, they’re willing to give him the opportunity to have all of this, on the basis that if he wins, he needs to stay under their banner to defend the title and all that it stands for, to the benefit of both the fighter and the organization.
Your boxing analogy doesn’t hold, but I’ll leave that for another time.
by Meeaaat on Jul 14, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, even if they don’t push him hard they’d still be giving Fedor more exposure than he could get in any other manner.
Even if the UFC did the minimum and never mentioned Fedor’s name in the lead in to the fights, just him being in the UFC cage on a PPV will give him more exposure than he can get in Affliction or doing anything else in MMA.
That’s why it would be stupid for the UFC to let him do a one fight deal. Even if Lesnar smashes him in 1 minute (not saying I think that’s going to happen), that 1 minute will get Fedor more exposure than he’s ever had before.
by Phildo on Jul 14, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lorenzo Fertitta is Dick Cheney
to Dana Whites’ GWB
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Jul 13, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Lorenzo has assassination squads that he hid from Congress?
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by subo on Jul 13, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll believe you when Lorenzo shoots Joe Silva in the face.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by Ubernoober on Jul 14, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The true power behind the UFC…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogan and Goldberg split Rumsfeld duties
Goldberg handles the unknown unknowns
Rogan handles the rest
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 13, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that Fedor will eventually fight Brock (before the year ends) and he will lose, and MMA will never be the same again.
by goodbones on Jul 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I may have to avoid the MMA blogosphere for like a year if that happens.
by madiq on Jul 13, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would spend 24/7 on there just to watch the glorious blowout on the message boards.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 14, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor has to lose eventually.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by Ubernoober on Jul 14, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who better really to take the crown than Brock.
If/when it comes down that way, it would really be shame then that Mir beat him.
The Declaration of Hendopendance
by capital L on Jul 14, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor should do it soon
Fedor needs to make this fight happen sooner rather than later. Brock has a good 4-5 years at least before he’s going to start slowing down, Fedor doesn’t. Right now I would give Brock the best chance of any UFC HW to beat him, but if Fedor waits 2-3 years, I’d see Brock going in as the favorite.
by Paradoxx on Jul 14, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But aren’t both guys 32? And wouldn’t you say that the wear and tear on your body from a pro wrestling career is comparable to the wear and tear of an MMA career?
by madiq on Jul 14, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding the teammates issue
does anyone remember one of the early UFC tournaments when a fighter was injured and had to be replaced by an alternate, which pitted two friends and teammates against each other. If I recall, that fight wound up being horrible, as they seemed afraid of hurting each other and one guy essentially handed the fight to the favorite.
I would gladly give two internets to whomever can recall the tournament and the fighters involved.
by rzor on Jul 14, 2009 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True, but Fedor is about 3 fights away from losing his “best HW” claim if he just fights the non-UFC leftovers in the rankings. Brock’s next few fights will all be against ranked competition and more experience against real competition is only going to make Brock more dangerous while Fedor is unlikely to find many real challenging opponents if the stays out of the UFC.
Frankly I think Fedor won’t ever have that mental edge over Brock. Every experience MMA fighter is going into a fight with Fedor already thinking they’ve lost. While Fedor may have a lock on greatest heavyweight of all time, if he doesn’t go after the real competition, he’ll start dropping in the current HW rankings here soon.
by Paradoxx on Jul 14, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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