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UFC 100: Can Anyone Defeat Brock Lesnar?

Brock_100_mediumMaggie Hendricks makes a case over at Yahoo! Sports' Cagewriter blog. She throws out Alistair Overeem, Bobby Lashley, Fedor Emelianenko, and Shane Carwin as four names that have a potential chance at defeating the behemoth UFC Heavyweight champion. I have a few problems with her assumptions regarding some of the attributes that each of the fighters possess:

Alistair Overeem: If someone of a similar size won't vex Brock, speed will. A fighter who is a champion kickboxer, can cut angles and move quickly? That might the perfect foil to Brock's wrestling and power. That fighter exists in Dutch kickboxer Alistair Overeem.

Overeem faces two problems in overcoming Lesnar. One, he is the Strikeforce heavyweight champion, is fighting for them on August 15, and contractually obligated to Strikeforce. Two, he needs to stay on his feet to be able to use high kicks, but as Lesnar showed on Saturday, his takedown is quite effective. 

Bobby Lashley: Like Lesnar, Lashley is a fellow WWE veteran and collegiate wrestler. Unlike Lesnar, Lashley is taking the long and winding road to the UFC. He also has four wins, but his competition hasn't been nearly as difficult as Lesnar's. Lashley's biggest advantage is that he and Lesnar are the same size, and both have a strong wrestling background. With those two factors equal, the fight has the potential of being an all-out slugfest. 

Most notably, Bobby Lashley isn't the same size as Brock Lesnar. Specifically, Brock Lesnar cuts to 265 while Lashley weighed in at 255 lbs. against Bob Sapp. Furthermore, Lesnar has been rumored to come in 15-20 lbs. heavier at fight time while Lashley probably doesn't bulk up substantially. The other major problem is that Lashley's wrestling credentials don't match up with Lesnar's background. Lesnar was a NCAA champion while Lashley was a NAIA champion. There's a huge difference.

Lashley isn't a throw away, but I think if they matched up in the cage, even after Lashley gets some more formidable opponents... it'll be another crushing performance for Lesnar.

The assumption that Overeem is speedy is laughable to me. Maybe we could have said that when he was a light heavyweight, but I fail to see how Overeem's speed today with his bulked up frame would help him against Lesnar, who is fairly speedy for a heavyweight. In the comments section, she replied to my comments refuting her claims about Overeem's speed by stating that Hari fight was a factor in her analysis. The big problem I have with that is that Hari looked absolutely scared of Overeem in their K-1 match, and he wasn't his usual overly aggressive self in the ring. Overeem was obviously not speedy against Bonjasky, and his overall power is the biggest difference between the old Overeem and the new beefy Overeem.

Does he stand a chance? My gut tells me a takedown would end Overeem's night, but Overeem's substantial new found power could make an impact on Lesnar's chin. It'd be interesting, but not interesting enough for me to think Overeem stands a chance.

My two highest percentage picks would be Fedor Emelianenko and Shane Carwin. Even those two picks have me skeptical at this point. The strategy that Fedor would use in a match with Lesnar is the ultimate key. Would he focus on trying to actually strike or try to quickly transition against Lesnar? The bout raises a lot of questions that we can't answer.

First and foremost, every one of Fedor's victims have mentioned the fact that he is deceptively strong or one of the strongest guys they have ever faced. It's obvious that Fedor pushes the low rep, high power workouts to build enormous power without the chiseled physique we're used to seeing from today's fighters. It's tough to tell how powerful he actually is, but one thing is for certain -- he can turn that power into an explosive weapon that can end a fight instantly.

He also happens to be one of the quickest heavyweights in the sport. His powerful haymaker against Arlovski wasn't a fluke in terms of speed. His transition game on the floor is absolutely unmatched, and watching his past fights in PRIDE against the ultra-bulked up Mark Coleman show that even the best positional wrestler can't put his arm on the mat for even a split second. It truly makes me wonder if his transition game on the ground would end a fight with Lesnar quickly.

I'd also be heavily intrigued by the clinch game. Fedor is a master of making guys work for takedowns, but Lesnar's power is unheard of in the sport today. Could he implement judo throws from his Sambo base for positional takedowns? It's possible, and there is plenty of training tape out there of Fedor imposing his will on bigger guys.

Lastly, Shane Carwin. Carwin is the most interesting matchup that can potentially happen in the coming months. He has the size to compete with Lesnar, and he's well known for packing an enormous punch with even a jab. Carwin was a D-II NCAA champion in wrestling, but I don't think he can fully stuff a Lesnar takedown. If he can, he has a solid chance of defeating Lesnar. Of course, Carwin must get through a very good wrestler in Cain Velasquez, another fighter who could give Lesnar problems simply based on his technical skills in the wrestling department.

My money is on Fedor Emelianenko though. I'll admit, I'm a bit biased. I absolutely love watching Fedor fight, and just when you think someone might have his number stylistically, he proves you wrong in a big way. The most interesting gameplan against Lesnar involves his transition game, which we haven't seen in quite some time. I want to see the quick Sambo techniques of Emelianenko on display against Lesnar in the Octagon. I'm a bit skeptical that he can do it, but the fans HAVE to see that match. It's a "must have it" fight for any fan anywhere.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Right now? Fedor or Carwin. I need to see what Overeem does against Werdum and Rogers to see how hes looking at HW. It’s been a while…

Fans: FEDOR! FEDOR! FEDOR!

Goldie: The crowd seems to be chanting "Kongo" here, Joe.

by xFenixKnightx on Jul 13, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed… I’d have to see where Overeem stands against Werdum.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Overeem that was toying with CroCop would probably take care of Lesnar. He was a machine in that fight. Right up until, you know…the nutcracker fest. =/

Fans: FEDOR! FEDOR! FEDOR!

Goldie: The crowd seems to be chanting "Kongo" here, Joe.

by xFenixKnightx on Jul 13, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem I had with Hendricks’ analysis was that she was playing on the entire “speed” issue. Overeem is bulky now, and his speed has dropped off, but he traded speed for immense power, and that’s where he’s a wrecking machine. In the clinch, he could lean on Lesnar and punish him with knees that would land in the midsection with big power due to Overeem’s height. I still think Lesnar takes him down and crushes him, but it’d be interesting to see.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carwin’s size and wrestling do make that a more interesting fight than Overeem, to me. On the feet, we’ve seen Carwin rocked by Gonzaga, a decent striker but with far less power than Lesner. The two biggest shots I remember Brock taking were a clinch elbow from Couture and that knee from Mir the other night. Neither really phased the guy. So even if Carwin can keep it standing… is that really a good thing?

The thing that Fedor has over the other guys mentioned is that he’s capable of fighting off his back. Nogueira could as well, if his body really was just worn down from the infection against Mir and not just worn out. Josh Barnett is a guy I’m surprised is not mentioned. His size and submissions seem very well suited to match up against Lesner.

I completely agree about Lashley though. People see how ripped he is and think that means he’s a big guy.

by Stanlee on Jul 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Herring landed a very good knee in a clinch

against Lesnar. It stiffened him pretty good, if I recall.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 13, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO, Fedor is the only guy who would be favored to beat Lesnar right now.

Carwin has the size and power that people look for when trying to identify a guy who could match up with Lesnar, but I believe Carwin lacks the speed to match Brock, and thus couldn’t land his big right or keep from being put on his back and pummelled.

by Hardcharger on Jul 13, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i’m not even sure i’d say Fedor would be favored. but let me clarify, i think fedor is without questions top 3 P4P (GSP, Fedor, A. Silva, interchangeable), but i dont think Lesnar should be anywhere near the discussion for P4P ranking, as its his SIZE alone that gives him the advantage, and not skill.

I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08

by MicahW on Jul 13, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you separate size from skills? Is there a magical formula that tells you Brock is 70% size and 30% skils? Do you think Bob Sapp could have beaten Mir? Do you think Zulu or HMC can defeat Mir or Couture? I would say no. Doesn’t that prove that size doesn’t matter as much as skills?

by cyph on Jul 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This hits at the discussion of whether the HW division should be split at around 230 or so. Because of the behemoth sizes of some HW’s cutting to 265 and weighing over 280 at fight time, it’s a question that has merit.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a big guy myself...

I believe that there will come a time when the division must be split. When the division is run by skilled, athletic, bearish men (260+), then the fighters who walk around at 230-240 (in shape) won’t be able to compete. I give it a year or two until we see a real need for a cruiserweight division.

by Captain7 on Jul 13, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that in time there will be a need for it, but if it happened now if would leave a desert at HW. All the guys on the fence, and there are a lot of them, would cut down. Leaving Carwin and Brock at HW.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor is the one.

the only one.

by Gerrymanderer on Jul 13, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor being favored rapidly diminishes as every day goes by, nobody has seen the true potential of Brock, he’s not at his prime, scary, I don’t see Brock losing for a while

by sundaysfinest on Jul 13, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is what I’ve been saying. If Fedor doesn’t challenge Brock soon he won’t be able to defeat him. He has a year or so I’d say.

by dedstrk316 on Jul 13, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe that Fedor, Lashley, and Overeem have a legit shot at Brock…..but, I like Brock’s style so I hope no one beats him…lol

by BoSoxManiac on Jul 13, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Overeem and Lashley have no chance.

Overeem would be the easiest of the 4 to take down, so he would then be the easiest for Brock to smash.

Lashley is laughable. He hasnt fought a single fighter of even mid-tier UFC calliber yet.

Carwin vs. Cain will show us a lot. Everyone seems to be behind Carwin on this fight, but if Cain keeps growing as a fighter as quickly as he is, he will be a huge problem for Carwin.

That all being said, i feel like a loss for Brock comes in one of three forms…

1. Fedor. now, soon, later, whenever. He has the best shot. His speed can help him avoid the takedown from Brock, and move in and out quickly to strike without having to deal with Lesner’s huge reach advantage. He can attempt takedowns from the clinch and possibly get Brock on his back, some place he is not used to being.

2. Brock has a couple of more dominating fights (Carwin, CC/Dos, Cain, Mir III, Randy/Nog winner) then begins to grow bored or less driven. He may then slip up or let the massive hype that will surely keep growing go to his head.

3. Time… It may be a long reign for King Brock. Perhaps age will slow the monster down in a few years after only fighting twice a year… by then it wont be Carwin or Cain, but the NEXT Carwin or Cain that takes the title from him by that point.

by MMArazorback on Jul 13, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yeah

Brett Rogers, but only if he can throw 1-2 punches before brock tries to take him down.
but on a serious note…

Shane Carwin

I’m not counting Fedor cause i don’t think we will ever see Fedor fight in the UFC until all other orgs go out of business.

by haggardhero on Jul 13, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think if he can ever put enough wins together again for a title shot Napao would beat Brock

fightlockdown.com

by The Legend on Jul 13, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I've been saying this too...

From the guys I’ve trained with at Miletich that trained with Brock for that short time all said one thing, Brock hates to be kicked in his legs. I think the key to beating Brock is with keeping a distance, avoiding the takedown and hard, hard leg kicks again and again and again.

Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo

by ANance on Jul 13, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed agreed. Although he got KTFO’d by Carwin, I just feel like Gonzaga is the worst matchup for Brock in the UFC right now. Of course he may get smashed a-la Mir, but Gonzaga is a big, strong dude who could certainly catch a guillotine on Brocks inevitable takedown and threaten with submissions from his back. Brock has looked pretty dominant, and his top position and control is pretty fearsome, but he is still a wrestler relatively early in his career who could certainly get caught quickly by a Mundials champion, especially if Gonzaga was threatening on the feet with some big punches and big big leg kicks.

by SMC on Jul 13, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

AND

another thing to think is this: Gonzaga BROKE Couture’s forearm and BROKE Carwins nose. Can Brock get through the adversity of a smashed nose early in round 1?

by SMC on Jul 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Mir has a more threatening submission game than Gonzaga, and is every bit as big.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

^this. Mir isn’t a small heavyweight.

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by Richard Wade on Jul 13, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do we dismiss what Couture showed.

Couture showed us that it is possible to keep Lesnar pressed up against the cage. Couture was also able to get back to his feet after Lesnar took him down. Seriously, watch that fight again Couture revealed a lot.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Jul 13, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He did, and I think Overeem has that power now to clinch Overeem into the cage and punish him. I wonder about the rest of the field though. Fedor would work the clinch to get Lesnar down, and it makes me wonder if Lesnar even knows about Fedor’s tricks in the clinch.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

clinch Lesnar rather

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Fedor can beat anyone, but if he tried to play in Brock guard he might get mir’ed. Standing with brock works if you have solid technique. Taking Brock down is a solid gameplan, but we have yet to see someone go in with that mindset. I think clinching as long as you close the distance quickly, press him and forget about overhooks. You can even pull out a sub from bottom, but you MUST CONTROL HIS POSTURE AT ALL TIMES. Not that its easy to control his posture, but you will get hammered all the way to queer street. The truth is he has tons of holes in his game and there are a ton of guys who have a shot at beating him. He has a few things on his side, like size, control, and the fact that he gets off first, he takes the fight where he wants it.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I generally agree he is very, very beatable. Hell, he was almost in trouble off MIr’s sloppy charge. Basically, try to get in, hit him, get out, and then know he will shoot as soon as he’s hurt out of instinct and try to time a knee or something.

by Michael Rome on Jul 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I would love to see Brock work on his elbows in the clinch, I still remember that one he hit on Randy that made him stumble.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don’t think many can do what Randy did. People dismiss that fight for whatever reason, but it was highly competitive and Brock says privately it was his toughest fight by far. Overeem and a number of other heavyweights do not have the elite wrestling Randy has.

About Fedor getting Lesnar down….possible, but unlikely. I don’t think he can stop Lesnar’s shot. And Lesnar showed pretty superb balance off a couple of Randy’s balance trips, I think he is quite adapt at staying on his feet.

I’d pick Fedor, but the size is a huge issue. Once he gets an arm trapped, which he tried and failed to do against Randy, the fight is in imminent danger of ending. You can only take so many of those shots. He’ll have 50-60 lbs on Fedor come fight night too.

by Michael Rome on Jul 13, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

The big problem is that if Brock puts his arm down for a split second, Fedor’s instinct and power to hold the arm in place is uncanny. He’ll transition that armbar instantly and never let go. I mean, Hong Man Choi was lifting his ass into the air and he was still latched on.

Brock will have to have some discipline in not giving wrist control. He gave Mir it a few times, but Mir wasn’t able to get Lesnar off of him in half guard to transition. Fedor actively moves to full pretty well, so it’d be very interesting on the floor.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

MR is correct. Randy’s greco game is far beyond what other HWs can offer. His blueprint doesn’t apply to anyone else, because they can’t play the clinch game like he can, and few other HWs are as fast as Randy (although what Randy gains in speed he gives up in size to many HWs).

I mentioned Fedor as the only guy who would be favored, and have to give respect to the man who has ruled HW for so long. But I also agree with the others who say that every day Lesnar keeps training, Fedor’s odds of being the favorite go down.

by Hardcharger on Jul 13, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone forgets one thing

With each successive fight, the current Lesnar is better by leaps and bounds. You can’t use the Lesnar that fought Couture and analyze his weakness there. The Lesnar that destroyed Mir would destroy the Lesnar that fought Couture. Food for your thoughts.

by cyph on Jul 13, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Its scary

how fast this guy is improving.

by ryanwk628 on Jul 13, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Cigano?

Junior Dos Santos? No? Too small? Takedown defense unproven? At least he’s not such a fantasy pick, since he’s actually in the UFC and on a win streak.

by gocjeffe on Jul 13, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Striking-wise, yes… ground…. I’m not so sure.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m a little embarrassed not to know this, but what is his belt level under the Nogueria’s? He could be one of those sneaky BJJ guys that just hasn’t had to rely on it often.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Purple belt

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard brown or purple, but this clears it up. Gracias.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I once heard black, but that was later corrected to purple or brown depending on his advancement since. He is primarily a stand up fighter. He got into straight boxing first and got into BJJ a few years later.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I’m well aware of his fighting style. But guys like Anderson Silva often get short changed in their ground game because they don’t/haven’t had to resort to it. His wrestling is probably the bigger issue and I’d venture to guess it’s not very good.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would be my guess. His only loss is by sub. My guess is that if it hits the ground with a gonzaga or mir, he’s done. I think hes got some good cardio though.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think thats a good call. Brock has yet to fight a guy that would fall under the “stand up fighter” category and he has been rocks more then once in fights with guys with arguably less power.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When was he rocked?

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy caught his a few time (never in danger of going out but a solid shot from a guy that is tiny, a shot that put him on his heels). Mir got him seeing “tweedy birds”. And I think Herring tagged him once late when the fight was almost in the books and Herring was looking to finish.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he was never rocked by those. Maybe this is just semantics, but to me rocked is when a guy goes stumbling back or loses his balance. See the elbow that Brock hit Randy with in their fight.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

that’s what getting rocked looks like

by sundaysfinest on Jul 13, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, its a semantics thing, but my point is he is open to a big shot from a guy with power. If he can’t get someone down or a guy catches him with his sloppy technique they have more then a punchers chance. His stand up is flawed and he might just pay for that with some brain cells. Thats why I think Cigano is a good call. I think talking about who will beat fighter X in not really a talk about the best fighter (Fedor), but of the lowest fighter that could beat the fighter in question. Cigano fits that mold of guys with the (apparent) skill set to beat Brock.

by szucconi on Jul 13, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is there isnt anyone who Brock cant get down. The combination of his wrestling, speed and power is unheard of from a guy his size they just arent supposed to be that athletic.

by xbuckeyex05 on Jul 14, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overreem was a pretty silly pick. Lesnar would bullrush him (like he did Herring) and turn him into a pumpkin at midnight (like he did Mir). Lesnar>Carwin>Lashley. That’s all I have to say about that. Fedor and Carwin are certainly the best fights available. Carwin would intrigue me and Fedor would do nothing short of making my fucking head explode.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I heard Dana is about to sign Tito and make him fight Lesnar.

by spectaa on Jul 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like something you’d do to someone you don’t like.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Igor Vovchanchyn...

There.. I said.. what every one of you was thinking.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 13, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Not me, but that is mainly because I am not familiar with him.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol you got to it b4 i could

Buddey System

by Amigop on Jul 14, 2009 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something tells me that fedors gameplan would try to outwrestle brock then mount him and ground and pound. It sounds ridiculous but I only say this because fedor seems to always try to attack with whatever his opponent does best. Kickbox with crocop, box with arlovski, grapple with nogueira, have an iron head competition with fujita lol.

by pandaboy99 on Jul 13, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Carwin makes Lesnar look like a technician. Fedor is the fight that needs to happen.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jul 13, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think Overreem, Carwin, Cain, Fedor, and Barnett all have a solid chance.

"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com

by ekc on Jul 13, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Question for everyone...

What would a Fedor/Lesner line look like in Vegas?

Would Fedor’s reputaion earn him the odds, or would the massive Lesner hype train cause the best heavyweight of all time to be an underdog against a fighter with a 4-1 record?

Im thinking something like Fedor -120 to -160 and Brock at +110 to -120.

Waddayathink?

by MMArazorback on Jul 13, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the line would be pretty narrow, but I’d actually expect Lesnar to be the favorite based on his physical gifts.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...

please sign Wand/Bisbing now!

most beloved ’fan’s fighter’ vs. the bad guy Britt.

A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.

by MMArazorback on Jul 13, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bisping probably had his agent call Chainsaw Charles to ask him to come out of retirement to continue their rivalry. But what I realllllllly want to see is a catch weight rematch with Hamill. That would be totally amazing.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 13, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mikey would never do it – Hamill would kick his ass around the cage.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 13, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overeem and Lashley would get raped by Lesnar, Carwin is an interesting fight and i’m not worried about Fedor until he signs with the UFC. So right now it’s going to take a hell of a fighter and game plan to figure out a way to stop Lesnar because at the speed that he is improving he’s only getting better after each fight.

by Raker on Jul 13, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Fedor would be at least -200 over Brock. It would be hard for Lesnar to maintain a top position against such a strong judo/sambo fighter. His best chance would be the catch Fedor standing, which we all know is possible but…

Overeem is a larger man than Lesnar, and has a decent enough grappling game that he could threaten Brock from every position. Nevermind his standing prowess…Problem is that he gasses – which I suspect Lesnar will as well if he makes it out of round 3 ever.

Carwin was getting wrecked by Gonzaga standing until he landed that defensive punch for the knockout. I don’t think he’d perform well against Lesnar at all and I’m in no hurry to see that fight for a championship.

Bobby Lashley sucks [so far].

by Ahhhoki on Jul 13, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Overeem is not a larger man than Lesnar. He may be slightly taller, but he was fighting at 205 not that long ago. Lesnar is a natural HW, having been that since his NCAA wrestling days. Overeem is carrying a lot of mass he accumulated recently on the frame of a naturally smaller guy then Brock is.

by Hardcharger on Jul 13, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I’m sure he acquired it through hard work and determination. Oh wait, no I’m not.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 13, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only Lashley has had a bigger blowup in size.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

about Lashley.

Obviously he’s not an elite HW yet, but I think he’s developing pretty nicely. His takedowns are very good, his striking stood up pretty well against Guida, and he’s training with a great camp.

I say give him 3-4+ fights to keep gaining experience and some decent wins, and he makes his way to the UFC (or maybe Strikeforce/ Affliction if it’s still around).

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.

'09 is the year of the FW's.

by ElliotMatheny on Jul 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Making it into the UFC and beating Brock Lesnar are very different things.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 13, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All I’m saying is that there are a LOT of hyped wrestlers in MMA. Not all of them turn out to be superstars. Nothing that Lashley has shown suggests to me that he’s anything special. I’m not saying he won’t be great someday, there’s just no reason aside from his previous fame to think he should be fighting in the UFC in “3-4 fights.” There are probably hundreds of more deserving heavyweights that have slipped through the TUF net. Until Lashley beats somebody moderately credible (Dan Severn?) HW I’m not convinced he belongs anywhere near a championship.

by Ahhhoki on Jul 13, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The other ones have merit, but Bobby Lashley has a lot of work to do.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 13, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Overeem vs Lesnar

Overeem’s Guillotine vs Brock’s neck.

That’s the main thing I want to see from this matchup.

by MickDawg on Jul 13, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Im shocked at the lack of faith in Fedor

This is Fedor. He is the hardcore MMA fan’s Jesus. I see that a lot of people are getting left behind after the Rapture.

by Rabbit915 on Jul 13, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

If Brock can get ino a top position I doubt there is a HW out there that can win off his back, I think the last fight with Mir is good evidence for that. Randy showed that it’s possible to get out from underneath the big man and do well in the clinch against Brock, so that leaves fighters like Carwin and with good chances of taking away Brock’s strengths and exploiting his weaknesses.

But anyone playing the wrestling game with someone of Brock’s size will be fighting a losing battle, in my opinion the only style I think that would be sucessfull against Brock is anti-wrestling and counterpunching, with the aim of going for the knockout. As stupid as it sounds Cro Cop has that style and has used it well against people like Coleman and Ron Waterman (who are of comparable style and Waterman’s strength and size were comparable) when they were in the prime of their careers. I think a decent stand up / anti wrestling game will take Brock out of his element and would be the best way to try and beat him. I don’t think Cro Cop has what it takes to implement that strategy now, but I think Fedor could.

by Donk696 on Jul 14, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's funny

You should mention Cro-Cop Donk696 because I was thinking the same thing. Sure, he is not what he was, but maybe he does have one more tremendous performance still in him.

I can see Mirko getting a shot, if he get’s another two wins under his belt. He has signed a 3 fight deal, and I don’t think they went all the way over to Croatia to re-sign him, just so he could languish in the HW division fighting Gonzaga & Kongo again.

People can laugh (insert your chuckle here), but I think Mirko could topple him if he can keep it standing. I think he would have a decent job of keeping it on the feet for as long as he needed to, and if he is going to do it, it would be in the 1st round. After that I feel Brock would wear him out and take him down for the TKO.

Just a thought … but with everybody talking about Carwin could beat him, Velasquez etc, let’s not forget about the man who only 3 years ago was 2006 Pride Open Weight Champ. He may not be what he was, but the experience could tell, and I’m not talking about a 45 year old Coutures experience. I’m talking about a guy who is still young enough at HW to do some damage. Let’s not also forget, Cro Cop is now injury free for the first time in a long time.

Mirko, only you can now save us from the foul mouth, beer swilling rattlesnake of the UFC …

by Rob J Nathan on Jul 14, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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