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UFC 100 Wrap-Up: The Brock Lesnar Era Begins

Brock_100_medium Brock Lesnar doesn't just stop offense. He stops all movement from underneath. He keeps hips from swiveling and shoulders pinned to the mat. He uses a combination of size to blanket his opponent, strength to control them and natural athletic power to throw short yet crushing strikes in tight range. The secret to Bruce Lee's "one inch punch" was just physics: can you generate enough force in the one inch margin to knock a man off of his feet? For Lesnar, it's a similar circumstance. Even with Mir's head cradled in one arm and the other arm hand fighting with Mir, Lesnar needs only a few inches to land a substantive punch that won't turn the lights out, but quickly accumulates the punishment. Mir previously criticized Lesnar's ground and pound for not creating enough distance when he strikes, but if your power is so massive that you require nothing more than a marginal space, what can one reasonably do to defend?

The pressure to make the Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor Emelianenko fight happen for not just financial gain but for the benefit of the heavyweight division and the sport is going to reach a fevered pitch. White has been critical of boxing and the politics or perverse incentivization of sanctioning bodies that prevents major fighters from fighting one another in critical bouts for their divisions and boxing. I realize the UFC has standard operating practices with contract arrangements, but some renewed effort at reconciliation has to happen. I personally have sincere doubts about the parties being able to reach some consensus, but hope springs eternal.

I do like Mir's new attitude and even in defeat he didn't appear despondent. He does genuinely seem to be on the other side of his disaster and rebuilding phase. As Joe Rogan said last night, I hope this new ascetic, disciplined lifestyle and training attitude continues. With a few wins there is always the possibility of a rubber match even if at the moment there is positively zero interest.

For a very long time, I've thought some of the hype behind Thiago Alves has been manufactured. He deserved the title shot based on his performance in the welterweight division, but the proclamations about his skills and danger were somewhat exaggerated. For a lot of fans and insiders, Alves was supported and built up as a way for them to hedge their bets on his future. Clearly Alves is possessive of considerable skill, but there was also always a sense that he was too incomplete to stand up to St. Pierre's comprehensive offensive.

Rogan argues St. Pierre is the best wrestler in MMA. I have substantive issues with that assertion, but St. Pierre might have the best takedowns in the game. During the fights last night, notice how when St. Pierre shoots for the legs and feels resistance from Alves he immediately switches his hand positioning to the upper body to transition into a knee tap. That is positively impeccable timing, perfect technique and the sort of particularly rare athleticism capable of delivering incredible results.

Michael Bisping appears to be who we thought he was. He mostly delivered on what many predicted he would, namely, lots of movement, circling, jabbing and staying out of the way. Clearly he didn't do that well enough. Much is being made of Bisping's decision to circle into Dan's powerhand and while it's unforgivable Bisping did it, it's something that his camp had to know he'd do. Bisping likely feels more comfortable circling in that direction, irrespective of opponent. From the outside, I get the sense that his camp worked tremendously on defensive wrestling and not nearly enough on dealing with a Henderson who was executing plodding if effective ring generalship. As for Henderson, I'm with Josh Gross: let him fight the winner of Maia vs. Marquardt and let that winner be the man who earns the next title shot at Anderson Silva's belt.

I don't have much to say about Akiyama that Leland didn't already cover except that I thoroughly enjoyed his entrance and was glad to see the UFC allow him to bring the act over from Japan. As for Belcher, I get the sense he left some of that fight in the gym. His leg kicks were noteworthy, but there never really appeared to be a theme to his striking. He seemed to be very improvisational. I'm reminded of Charles McCarthy, so in love with his own jiu-jitsu that he feels he can lord it over opposition at will. For Belcher, I wonder if he felt too comfortable with his own skills to put together a more targeted game plan.

The only new takeaway from the Fitch vs. Thiago fight were Fitch's growth as a grappler and Thiago's surprising well-roundedness. For Fitch, he has shades of the wrestler-turned-fighter convert where he compromises his safety for positional dominance, but his ability to effectively take and hold the back caught my attention. It's not as if Fitch is hitting arm drags from the guard Marcelo Garcia style, but he is quite adept at slowly and methodically working himself into advantageous positions and holding himself there for long durations. As for Thiago, I don't get the sense he'll ever contend for a title, but he does appear to be ready to compete at this level (something I wasn't sure about given the previous fighters he has faced in Brazil). He doesn't have much of the wrestling necessary to compete so that will be a hurdle, but he does have excellent chokes and is always looking for angles and movement underneath to create openings be they submissions, sweeps or working back to the feet. I admired how active Thiago was in looking for some sort of weight to shift, limb to grab and space to create.

As for the undercard results, I'm in as much shock as others about Stephan Bonnar. We knew from the Evans fight that you can beat Bonnar on takedowns if one has to, but I never thought an aged, battered Coleman would be able to rinse and repeat over the course of three rounds.

Jon Jones continued his impressive run, but the ending there was fairly predictable. However, it is good to see he was able to work submissions into his repertoire as he grows and progresses.

I can't comment on the Kim vs. Grant fight until I see it, but from the Sherdog.com play-by-play it appears to be quite the ugly affair for the Canadian.

As for Lawlor, congratulations on the win. C.B. Dolllaway reminds of Denis Kang: great offense, not so great defense.

Last note: no one seems to be commenting on the new camera angles and camera positions the UFC employs. This is not the first event the UFC has used the overhead camera, but it's worth noting how much dimension it adds particularly when viewing in high definition. The moving overhead camera is an excellent, excellent addition to the viewing experience. I was asked last night what took the UFC so long to get such a decent camera position and the answer is likely money. The more cameras and camera positions used during a show, the more money it costs. Having an overhead camera that can move on a wire and appears to be able to rotate in a full circle is a costly piece of equipment. This is a small example of why a bigger more mainstream MMA means a better MMA.

UFC 100 coverage

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I hope there is enough time to have Hendo fight Marquardt/Maia before Anderson needs to defend again – otherwise I would forgive Hendo getting the shot and the winner of M&M waiting for that fight to occur.

Bisping will now fall to the middle of the pack where he belongs and Akiyama needs some work. Hmm…

I tripled my bankroll last night and I resent the rest of the BE team for holding me back.

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I forgot to make picks/bets.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fail.

You would’ve bet Lesnar, at the very least.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was actually going to bet it all on Lesnar.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damnation

That was the line of the century.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know. I tried to do it before the event started, but they’d already closed it down.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent point on camera angles, Luke.

I was actually excited to see the use of overhead shots on this card. It was always something that seemed pointedly absent in previous events, and I thought it was used perfectly to show the exchanges in scrambles like the first takedown Lesnar scored on Mir.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey everybody, it’s misterjonez!

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Subo!

It seems my absence hasn’t adversely affected the BLNHC too much, you’ve been doing an admirable job promoting our interests ;)

Nice prognostication on Lesnar vs. Mir, btw.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More defending than promoting – and I had a pretty nice card overall. I want Eugene to get his ass back to work and compile the betting game numbers.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What option did Hendo give Bisping?

I credit Hendo with forcing Bisping to either circle to his left or stand and bang or get taken down. It was Hendo cutting off the ring more than Bisping using bad strategy.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Jul 12, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He hardly defended against the right hand. The one thing that had been saving him earlier in the fight was that Hendo would throw it over his jab, and it glanced off his shoulder…he got KTFO’ed the moment he got lazy with his jab. Also, Bisping’s lateral movement was crap. GSP’s was beautiful though, such a good contrast. haha

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Jul 12, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I have a question...

I’m a tall guy with long arms, not as long as Lesnar’s, but longer than normal/average for certain, so it didn’t seem so absurd for Brock to trap Frank’s left arm in the first round the way he did and be able to put those crunch-shots on Mir’s face. But it got me thinking, about halfway through the round, ‘Why don’t I remember seeing this before, like, ever?’

Was this only possible because of Brock’s freakish strength, or is this maybe an overlooked method of GnP in half-guard? A reverse half-nelson (which is essentially what Brock used) is not difficult to use or leverage with the hand essentially posted on the mat (through Mir’s shoulder), but why don’t I remember seeing this before?

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Good question. I would say overlooked method, but I saw it immediately and I just couldn’t shut up about how dynamic that was. I’d say about 85% of the time he was in that position he had both of Mir’s arms under control with only one of his, leaving his other arm free to pound with. It was great.

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Jul 12, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Some people don’t seem to like it because he’s not out there trying flying arm bars and go go platas. But if it works who the hell cares? Wasn’t the goal of the first UFC to see who’s style worked best? Brock’s style is working for him because of his wrestling, size and speed. People need to do less whining and figure out a way to beat his ass. Until then he’s the man because no one seems to be able to prove otherwise.

by jrobb20 on Jul 12, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

someone will figure it out. No doubt.

Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 12, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If MMA has taught us anything,

it’s taught us that nobody stays at the top of the hill forever. Eventually, your weakness is exposed, and later on it’s exploited.

But this could be an awfully painful process to watch, if you’re pulling for the field.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I saw someone mention earlier that

Mir (VERY briefly) showed that Lesnar had some holes in his stand up. Given his wrestling ability and size and strength, his weakness has to be stand-up, no?

Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 12, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd probably go with that.

Also, if it would be possible to put him on his back in the middle of the octagon, that might expose another weakness. But really, his striking is pretty bread-and-butter at this point.

1. Paw with the jab,

2. Work a few leg kicks to drop the hands or at least change eye levels momentarily

3. Extend the rocket-right through the occipital bone, by way of the orbital socket.

The problem with deciding on attacking Brock on his feet, is he’s got as much power in his right hand as any fighter in the world, and he can unload it consistently with accuracy. You’re really playing with fire, which is why I think a guy like Fedor has a reasonable chance against him because his striking is much more polished and refined. But even then, it’s at best a roll of the dice.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carwin might be the only HW that could routinely stuff Lesnar’s shots – and he’s also in possession of canned hams for hands. But yes, it’s looking like the only way to beat the non-spaz Brock is to catch him cleanly on the feet.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carwin's beast-like too, right?

Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 12, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,

Carwin weighs in at like 255 or 260 for his fights, I think? And he’s every bit as shredded and powerful. He’s older, so his gas tank is suspect, but he’s probably the best chance right now in the HW division of taking Brock out. He probably needs some more experience, though. We’ll see.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s like one year older than Brock (31 v 32)

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

I had it in my head he was like 36. My bad.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's split the difference

He’s actually 34 :-D

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, nice.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carwin's scary, for sure.

But his striking seems to be even less refined than Lesnar’s. Their power is comparable, by any measure, but I just don’t know if Carwin could win or neutralize the wrestling exchanges.

I love Carwin, too. I just think Brock is more polished at this point, which actually is pretty damning to Shane.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He really, honestly is the only guy I see having a chance against Lesnar that is currently in the UFC. And I hope very badly that fight happens for the end of year show (UFC: Godzilla vs Mecha Godzilla). But after discussing it late last night after the fights, I’m afraid that Brock and Carwin are the same guy, but Brock is just that much better at everything they both do, is younger, and has had his tank tested. But it would make me sweat a little, so that would make it worth it. I mean, at this point, what else can the UFC do from here?

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I respectfully disagree

Mir was swinging wildly for those brief moments and, quite frankly, I think Frank Mir is a pretty poor boxer. Someone with better striking might be easier to read. Mir only flashed in that moment, so it’s not as though he was outstriking Brock on multiple occasions. Additionally, Brock proved that his wrestling, speed and strength negate striking. Like most wrestlers in MMA, he can shoot when he feels like he’s in danger. Unlike them, he’s seemingly impossible to stop from successfully doing so.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brock ate TWO knees in the face...

and still caught the leg for a single-leg takedown. I’m not sure which was more impressive – that or the way he neutralized Mir’s left arm to open up the head shots on the ground. He had pretty good control of Frank’s bicep, and made it hard for Frank to defend those shots well. Ribs or head – where do you want to get hit?

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 12, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brock’s ground control was seriously frightening. Mir’s arms were waving around like he was drowning. I enjoyed that he kept giving his corner the thumbs up even though he was getting positively mashed up.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

machida style

someone that uses evasive skills to side step his takedown attempts and leg kicks to chop him down

but then finding someone big enough and quick enough that can do that might be hard

by midbc on Jul 12, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see

Cro Cop chop away at the legs with his power. I’ve often wondered why he doesn’t do it more, since it would certainly lead to more openings for the head kicks he so dearly loves.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cro Cop’s in deep, deep trouble against Dos Santos.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even so,

I would love to see him torque in on some left leg kicks. I have to imagine that he’d shut fighters down with only a couple, and you know they’d be defending mid/high kicks when we went to throw.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would honestly say that it is the freakish strength. By laying on Mir, Mir couldn’t use his hips to escape which in turn allowed Lesnar to neutralize Mir’s arm. In any other division, most fighters would be able to at least turn to their side or give up their back even against a strong wrestler.

by chrisbboy82 on Jul 13, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d like to address some of the people who acredit all of Brock’s wins to size and strength. Against Couture, the size difference was huge, but Couture didn’t get ragdolled in the wrestling and held his own pretty damn good for a man his age. Frank Mir has damn good jiu-jitsu, and is pretty damn big himself. Royce Gracie was tapping men bigger and stronger than him, yes, times have changed and the game has evolved, and Brock is alot more athletic than the guys who were bigger than Royce…but to say that the only reason Brock won was because of strength and size is idiotic.

If I was Frank Mir, I’d be insulted that all of you internet guru’s think that a BJJ player like him could get laid on by any big ass dude. Brock’s control, patience, power, and GNP won the damn fight. Strength just made it a hell of alot easier.

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Jul 12, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

It’s just cognitive dissonance that keeps people harping on the ‘Brock iz jus BiG n StRoNg!’ thing. Everyone who disliked the idea of Brock coming to the UFC pointed to his freakish size and WWE background as detrimental factors, and they can’t let go of their positions even after seeing four fights from this guy’s UFC career.

In a way, it’s because of Royce’s insane success and revolutionary impact on MMA, along with Bruce Lee, that cause people to be upset at watching a freakishly large fighter succeed against incredibly skilled fighters. Everyone got used to technique always overcoming size and strength, and they let the world pass them by as the sport became more and more complicated and technically complex. Now, we’re at a point where physical attributes actually do impact a fighter’s chances, whereas ten years ago it was all about the perfect game plan and technical mastery.

The sport is evolving. The talent gap has closed dramatically, and technical expertise has improved by orders of magnitude over the days of Gracie, Taktarov, Shamrock and Coleman. In today’s world of MMA, athletic ability must meet a minimum threshold for a fighter to entertain a reasonable chance of success at the highest level. I think that offends some people.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

And to clarify:

I think that Lesnar is just an extreme example of this athletic difference in today’s MMA scene. Georges St. Pierre is also physically gifted, as are guys like Couture and Alves, but they aren’t the lightning rod of the discussion.

So Brock catches essentially all of the flak directed at this issue.

Of course, I could be all wet.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I don’t think it’s any different than someone saying that Fighter A only wins because he’s so fast.

Yup, Brock is big and strong…that’s a big part of MMA.

by MMA_Messiah on Jul 12, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saying Brock is bigger, stronger and faster than most heavyweights isn’t a problem for me; it’s the context of some individuals suggesting that those things somehow make him a cheater.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Right.

This whole attempt to invalidate, or diminish Brock’s in-cage accomplishments because of his physical tools is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen in fight discussions.

It’s not about the tools, it’s about how you use them. Brock just happens to be able to implement a gameplan centered around his supreme physical advantages, just like Anderson Silva does.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

What a dick!

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally don’t find it weird. It is not hard to ignore for some that Lesnar’s success is in part due to his size. I mean that it is undeniable that his size definitely helps. It is difficult to for some MMA fans to see the skill he utilizes when it looks like to the untrained eye that he is just lying on his opponent, and his size makes it impossible for his opponents to escape. The weight discrepancies don’t help Lesnar’s case either.

by chrisbboy82 on Jul 13, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jul 12, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could it be just a little premature to start talking about “the Lesnar era”? Based on what he did to Herring, Couture and Mir, he’s going to be a very tough nut to crack for anyone, but at the moment he is still a 3-1 fighter. Let’s see him defend that belt a few times and then reconsider the era talk.

On the other hand, I don’t exactly know who, if anyone is going to beat a guy that big, that strong and that good.

by lhasafi on Jul 12, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Some eras are short...some are long

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 12, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I hope we are nearing the end of the Era of proclaiming everything an Era

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The UFC has a few guys in his 'league' physically.

The problem is, I don’t think any of them are well-rounded enough to present a credible problem for him.

Carwin is at best a pick ’em, and at worst he could end up getting smothered on the ground like Mir did.

Velasquez I just don’t see as having a large enough striking advantage, and Brock’s wrestling pedigree is just as good as Cain’s.

Nog looked dreadful his last time out, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see him again, based on the staph infection.

Kongo is just way too one-dimensional. He would get murdered by Lesnar.

Couture, I really don’t see a rematch going any differently. If anything, I see Lesnar performing stronger because he’d be able to pace himself better, already sporting the strap and having gained the confidence of a couple title fight victories.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure Brock's entire game revolved around wanting to work from the top in half guard

The one takedown where he would have been in Frank’s full guard he stood right back up. Maybe I’m reading a lot into it. But it seemed to me that he wasn’t going to play around in Frank’s full guard

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 12, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought the exact same thing.

Obviously his offensive plan did center around half-guard either in the middle of the cage (first round) or up against the cage (second round).

I’ve always wondered why half-guard is a preferred position to turtle, for the guy on the bottom. At least in turtle you’re able to limit the power-hand’s ability to hit your head by turning the back of your head towards it. In half-guard, the only virtue is you can hip-through and create distance to attain full guard or escape.

I think half-guard is going to go away as a reasonable defensive posture in the near future.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s that kind of shit – driving formerly reliable positions into anachronistic hell – that really gets the old guard’s goat. How dare someone be so big and strong as to negate my training!

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I remember the righteous indignation I felt when they took headbutts away from Mark Coleman. It still burns.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coleman didn’t need them last night. I need to see that fight – I don’t care how much it sucks, it’s Mark Coleman winning a fight at UFC 100.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wish I could have seen it.

It really is such a feel good story seeing Coleman try to claw his way back into relevance at this stage in his career.

Of course, I’m a huge Coleman fan.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the low, low price of 1.99, you can download that shit at UFC.com.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once upon a time this olg dude by the name of Randy Couture seemed to like the half-guard as a nice position to control an opponent – when he was the one sitting atop the other guy, that is.

by lhasafi on Jul 12, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couture is kind of like the 'uncle' of

modern MMA. Wouldn’t say he’s the father, but he’s been present and influential for so long that it’s almost like that cool uncle who knew more about sports than your dad did, but didn’t want to step on his brother’s toes when it came to educating the kids on the proper way to swing a bat.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Additionally, I thought he was wise to go to the ground with Mir on his own terms—i.e. not leaping in once Mir dropped to his back and he was still standing,

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong

because i don’t have access to the fight at the moment, but didn’t Mir get rocked before Lesnar landed in full guard? Because if he did, wouldn’t anyone’s game plan regardless of opponent, be to get them back to their feet as quickly as possible to get the potential knock out? I’d be leaning a little more in that direction then Lesnars not wanting to work from a full guard position. Just a thought no?

by proflex on Jul 13, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

- Akiyama won a close decision – no robbery here at all. It could have gone either way but at the third it was belchers to lose and he didnt take it. (I picked belcher in my value picks which ended up being profitable)

- Bisping was scared shitless as soon as Hendo touched him. Hendo should of just climbed the cage and done that elbow drop… kidding aside – he did the right thing but said the wrong thing.

- GSP just dominated the 2 best ww (Fitch and Alves) – this is a rock and a hard place. His only chance against Silva is at a catch weight of 177 or 178. almost no chance in a 5 round fight with anderson at 185. He needs to stay and continue to dominate and then towards the end of his career he can afford to gamble like this.

- Brocks technique from top position was stunning. With his spacing and his ability to land hard shots with that makes it very hard to submit him. His new “fighter” physique is also impressive as his cardio was also noticeably better. With his “bodybuilding” muscles he looked gassed at 2 rounds with Randy.

This was the best Frank Mir making Brocks win even more impressive.

Frank confused Brock on the feet so we did see a hole assuming one can actually stay on the feet against him.

Brock is not at his peak which will be interesting to see how much better he actually gets.

- Brocks comments. Bud light comment was unacceptable. Trash talking a guy you just beat the living shit at was unnecessary, flipping off the crown was eh…

by mmalogic on Jul 12, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I kind of liked talking shit to Mir – Frank ran his mouth a lot lot lot coming into this fight, and not only was Brock saying ‘not every fight ends with two guys hugging each other’, he was setting up a possible rubber match down the road if Mir can go on a tear.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly don’t think Dana would have demanded Brock come out and apologize if not for the Bud Light comment. He might have asked him to apologize to his wife for the remark cast her way, but c’mon. She’s a former WWE personality, I hardly think she was offended.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I too am sure that was the last straw.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would she be offended?

I thought it was sweet.

by Sventsh on Jul 12, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just trying to think of things he said that were anywhere close

to ‘out of line.’ That was the only other one I could come up with, the rest is just a world-class athlete blowing off a year and a half of steam in the span of three or four minutes.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fingers to the audience would probably be considered classless by many. I certainly felt a tad uneasy at that moment. But I think the reprimand from the boss had 100% to do with the sponsor thing.

Plus perhaps that he again tried to leave early instead of answering questions. I saw this happen during the prefight conference once, but according to some article it happened two more times. (As I am sure everyone who reads this deep into a thread like this would already know…).

by Sventsh on Jul 12, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually thought

he was pretty masterful in turning the crowd over in his hand after the fingers with his ‘horseshoe’ line. Turned those boos into cheers pretty perfectly.

Tito used to wear shirts that said stuff like “I just fucked your ass!” after he beat someone. I honestly don’t think anything Brock did/said to/about Mir post-fight was that offensive.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, I agree.

by Sventsh on Jul 12, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boxing has a lot of problems

But I don’t think crowd antagonizing and press conference shenanigans are what has really done the damage for that somewhat-analogous sport.

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He left early to do ESPN

I’m sure Dana was OK with that. ;)

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 12, 2009 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Why was Lesnar yelling at a semi-disoriented Mir after the end of the fight?

That was kind of weird. I know Mir was talking pre-fight but thats how you sell a fight. Brock’s behavior and comments after the fight remind me of something a grat football coach said about end zone celebration. “Act like you’ve been there before.” Lesnar is just way to weird of a guy for me to try to understand.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Jul 12, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mir tried to pop up like he was fine – I’d have said ‘what would you do without refs around to save your ass?’

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mir tried to pop up like he was fine

Which was absolutely hilarious, seeing as he almost fell down as soon as both feet were under him.

I’m sorry, I’d have reveled in either guy getting his ass handed to him after all the smack that was talked pre-fight. It’s just that there was slim-to-no chance of it being Frank being victorious, and I happen to dislike Mir’s brand of cocky far more than I dislike Lesnar’s.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*whole life

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 12, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Based on what people are saying, one would think that Mike Tyson was absolutely terrible for boxing.

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well..

once he turned into an insane rapist ear biter he became bad for the sport. Lesnar right now is just a dickhead…

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 12, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you seen the new documentary “Tyson”? Compelling stuff.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 12, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I would rather watch an actual trainwreck.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s haunting – there’s no “talking heads”, just Tyson giving his life story as he sees it for 90min.
He’s also the best swearer I’ve ever heard.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 12, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec’d for “best swearer I’ve ever heard.”

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Well said, Brent. I’d prefer all of these guys to be a little more honest about who they are, rather than singing Kumbaya in the middle of the octagon after beating each other to a pulp. The reason that type of display is so impressive is because we are all supposed to ackowledge that guys like Lesnar are, generally speaking, the more dominant personalities in physically demanding competitions like fighting or pro sports. Single-minded of purpose, driven and unconcerned with criticisms, that’s the most common type of personality you see in an NFL lineman, a top shelf boxer, or a world-class weight lifter.

Seeing GSP and Machida be so utterly respectful is supposed to be the exception that stands out against the rule. And it’s supposed to mean something because it’s honest.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

When guys talk tons of shit and are suddenly friendly when they lose, I don’t think it’s up to them if there should be hugging and grab assing going on.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point.

I guess I am not a fan of big dumb animals.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Jul 12, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

cows are awesomely tasty.

Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 12, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And we'll have to fight for that title

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,

I don’t think either of us are willing to concede that position at this point.

We’ve been fighting the hate for too long. You’re gonna have to start by applying to the club, I’m afraid ;)

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m from Minnesota, have met him, have watched him wrestle collegiately live, in WWE live and fight live. I think I’m up there, but we can all share the title.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, so you've got

the hometown connection. I’ll give you that. Basically, that’s your membership card right there, but you’re gonna have to go through an initiation of sorts to get a seat on the board of directors.

We can’t be too careful, I mean for all I know, you’re in league with myth ;)

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also pummeled shit out of my friend in a pit at an outdoor concert in 1999. More of a fun fact than a right to fandom, really.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it had been

YOU who got the shit pummeled out of you, that would pretty much rocket you to the top of the list. Since it’s your friend, it does lose some cred-points.

That’s still hilarious.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was the only person with the balls to stay in there once Brock entered (I was actually on the edge, so I didn’t have to look like a coward and run from him like an orc). He paid dearly for it. Brock tossed him around like Heath Herring.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ain’t no shame running like diarrhea from that guy.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot how fun you made these threads…

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 12, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Respect.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I still think I might be his biggest fan...

I just don’t post much. :)

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 12, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...and I'll turn this green

Agreed on all fronts. I think, for me, it’s easy to like Brock’s brash personality because he’s not a douchebag— he’s a dick.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What’s the difference between a “douchebag” and a “dick” (and not literal meanings – god hopes I know that difference)

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 12, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For me, being a douche in MMA means being coldly confident, annoyingly so— brushing off your opposition, being a cocky snob. There are two fighters from last night that come to mind. Lesnar, on the other hand, is dickish because he is hostile, he doesn’t give a shit what people think about him, his mouth doesn’t have a filter (and he often later apologizes for it when he cools down) and he’s lewd. That’s my take.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It looked like Frank was coming back for more, so Brock held his ground. It was a trip though, Brock saying “go ahead and talk all that shit now”, or something similar, while Frank just stood there looking scared and confused. Also, wasn’t it strange that Goldberg repeated what Brock said? I’ve never heard him say “shit” on TV before. Wonder if that’s considered a no-no.

"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"

by RearNakedChoker on Jul 12, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Goldberg sounded scared and confused himself.

The Declaration of Hendopendance

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We all were.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was probably on account of that “chest-on-chest” position he had him in.

The Declaration of Hendopendance

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoyed how Goldberg constantly bandied about that term like he was some sort of technical MMA wizard.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The comments were fine if it were said to Rogan… but stepping back up to Mir after turning him into a fucking retarded alien is a tad excessive… Sometimes actions speak louder than words. Right now more people are talking about his antics than his technique… NO ONE HAS EVER DONE what Brock did to Mir in a title fight no less…headlock ground and pound???? wtf… there were some serious things to discuss.

If it wasnt for the budlight comment and for THE NETWORK EXECS at the show nothing would have been made about his “tantrum” or Hendo’s remarks.

by mmalogic on Jul 12, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

TJ Grant gif.

by Nick Thomas on Jul 12, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You mean STUN GUN gif

Oh right, he’s Canuckian

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beautiful elbow.

Nice torque on the throw, but the elbow is perfection.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 12, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

STUN GUN! STUN GUN! STUN GUN!

You just made my day, Mr. Thomas.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Henderson's Finisher

Name for Dan Henderson’s flying elbow drop: The Declaration of Hendopendance

(Shamelessly stolen from an UG thread)

by capital L on Jul 12, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Justice.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 12, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec’d for owning up. Most people around here just pretend they didn’t say anything. As a show of solidarity, I will admit that I was wrong about the Shannon Gugerty vs Matt Grice fight.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I too fucked that fight up

Oh, wrestlers. Can’t you win every fight?

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your new quote and my old quote seem like a question and answer.

Also, I picked Stephan Bonnar (who I call Steven’s Boner) and CB. But I wasn’t invested in any of my picks that lost. All of my guys— Jones, Stun Gun, Sexyama, Lesnar, Hendo and GSP— won. Best night ever.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im another one who completely blew that call. Mir by RNC? What was I thinking?

I really don’t like Brock, but man, that dude is an ass whooper!

"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"

by RearNakedChoker on Jul 12, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You thought someone could choke Lesnar’s lack of a neck?

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 12, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously

There may be a lot of ways to beat Brock Lesnar, but I’d want to meet the man that could FIND his neck to choke him, let alone pull it off.

"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail

by duck on Jul 12, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What can I say….I imagined the fight going down WAY differently. :(

"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"

by RearNakedChoker on Jul 12, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think to some extent we’ve come to expect better of fights than what Lesnar shown. Its likely the influence of karate, jujitsu and other eastern martial arts on the sport. Opponents are to be considered challenges and respected as such, and the whole warrior honour code. Lesnar kind of looks and acts like a big dumb viking when we’re more used to the fighters acting like samauri.

by ChrisBat on Jul 12, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That’s what Mir gets for disrespecting Mizugaki.

by a tommy point on Jul 12, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lol.

As a Mir fan that was random, and hilarious to me.

by Loot on Jul 12, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I knew you’d get around to saying that.

How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert

by subo on Jul 12, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuckin right

We get it, Frank; you have a crush on Miguel Torres.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jul 12, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really wish Lesnar couldn't speak English.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Jul 12, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So does Dana.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt that. Dana wishes Brock would keep quiet about sponsors.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 12, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got jokes.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On an unrelated note..

I’m guesing Brock won’t fight until December? (probably the year end blowout card) As Nog, Couture, and Cain and Carwin have to shake out.

When guys like Brock and Machida take so little damage in their fights, I’d like to see them fight more often then they do.

But I guess that’s the selfish fan in me

by missmanners on Jul 12, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who would you propose he fights? I’m sure he’d love to fight again before the end of the year. He’d land a gigantic payday and likely fight someone that would have almost no chance against him. I expect Carwin at year’s end.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the loser’s bracket of Couture and Nog might get a shot first, since that fight is a bit sooner then Cain, Carwin.

However, I think the winner of Cain, Carwin has more of a chance. Nog needs to roll back the clock and Randy would need a better gameplan and execution as Brock will be that much better

by missmanners on Jul 12, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But who would you have him fight before then, if he were to fight again soon?

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if I had my druthers (Yes I said that) Randy and Nog would have fought sooner, but there was that Stallone movie.

But, if I had to make a filler fight, I’d say sign Arlovski, as he is a free agent, and have him fight Lesnar. He’s still a name and he’d fight hard as his MMA future would depend on it.

However, I’m sure his camp wants a soft touch for his next fight

by missmanners on Jul 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good call. Didn’t think about him. Brock would mash him up, but it’s a big name and big money fight.

I poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Jul 12, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NOt personally a fan of the eliminator since they need another anderson fight by november or so.

I say give Maia the shot if he wins, Dan the shot if Nate wins. If Maia wins, I honestly like the idea of setting Dan up for a shot at 205, where Machida will be short of opponents in 2010.

by Michael Rome on Jul 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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