UFC 100 Post-Fight Results and Analysis
by Mike Fagan on Jul 12, 2009 3:09 AM EDT
in MMA News
Email
Print
-Brock Lesnar is the undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the world. Did you buy into the Mir hype after his destruction of the punching bag known as Minotauro Nogueira?
Lesnar proved what a legitimate heavyweight athlete with three years of MMA training can accomplish. Mir, in the best shape of his life, couldn't put together any sort of legitimate defense. I'm having a hard time imagining any heavyweight under UFC contract giving Lesnar a challenge.
-If Thiago Alves couldn't challenge Georges St. Pierre at 170, who will? The Canadian battered the challenger from bell-to-bell, unleashing a relentless assault in his defense of the welterweight title. Without an obvious contender for the belt, St. PIerre looks in line for a move up to middleweight to challenge Anderson Silva.
-Sexyama? Yes, please.
-Dan Henderson still packs a punch at 38. I thought Michael Bisping could successfully stick and move to a decision victory. He did a credible job until Henderon unloaded a Holy Hand Grenade on Bisping's chin followed by a Superman punch from Hell. England may have won the Ultimate Fighter battle, but Henderson won the UFC 100 war.
-Paulo Thiago, your fifteen minutes are up. Sorry.
258 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
St. PIerre looks inl-line for a move up to welterweight to challenge Anderson Silva.
\
Move up to middleweight, you mean? LOL
How taste my pee pee pee? LIKE WIN!!! Thank you Machida!
Fixed.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Second best UFC event i have seen
UFC 84 Ill Will is number one. this might have been higher if Brock Lesnar hadn’t won
The post fight statements by Lesnar were awesome.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I'm sorry
but how the fuck is that possible
I'm sorry
But that is a ridiculous question. My friends were turned off by Lesnar’s lack of class. While it is understandable that MMA fans will either like or dislike Lesnar’s antics, I don’t see how you couldn’t figure out why some MMA fans wouldn’t like Lesnar’s post fight antics.
I’m having a hard time imagining any heavyweight under UFC contract giving Lesnar a challenge.
Is this a call for Dana to sign….
FFFFFFEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRR?
I hope so. Dana will give Lesnar 1 more current UFC heavy, then if lesnar destroys him, I don’t think he has any option other than signing.
How taste my pee pee pee? LIKE WIN!!! Thank you Machida!
One punch from Carwin could change it all
I don’t care how iron Lesnar’s chin is, if Carwin touches with a solid punch he’s going down. The question is can he land it?
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Lesnar just called out Fedor on MMA Live
Do it Dana
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure they’ve tried to sign him before.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
In the post fight presser, Dana was pretty frank about wanting to sign Fedor, and was sounding pretty confident they’d eventually get the deal done – not that it hasn’t sounded that way before mind you. I think it’s just going to be a matter of paying Fedor enough to get him to accept the restrictive contract terms that are in all UFC contracts. After the Barnett fight, assuming Fedor wins, and with Affliction teetering on folding, there are only freakshow fights left for him. The only steady money will be with the UFC.
The problem is Fedro does whatever Finkie tells him to do, and Finkie is very invested in M-1 Global. Dana will not allow a competitor to ever benefit from the UFC.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Finkie wants Dana to do a one fight deal so he can bank on good ole’ Fedor winning and run off with the man who took UFC’s Heavyweight Belt. Let the flaming commence, but if I was Finkie, I wouldn’t send Fedor to the UFC at this point, Brock is a legit threat, and Fedor’s standup isn’t as threatening as Mir’s was tonight…Brock would have a VERY real chance to beat him.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions
With legit contenders in short supply, at some point the Japanese are going to stop ponying up $1,500,000 or whatever for Fedor to take these freakshow fights. There are cheaper freakshow fights that can be had for less money, and can be just as big of a draw, as I think they’ve recently found out. At that point, Finkelstein or not, it’s just going to make financial sense for everybody involved for him to go to the UFC. At least, so I hope.
Yeah. I am curious to see what happens after Affliction: Trilogy.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Overeem is still a legitimate contender. (albeit a serious underdog). Two or three more reasonable wins and Yvel is too.
No name calling
Just said he was who he wanted to fight next
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Mir is a damn good submission specialist. Fedor is a small heavyweight. I don’t see how this fight will be any different.
I hate to say it...
But “well-rounded” means nothing against an athlete of that size. Brock needs next to zero training on top of his wrestling base to know: Get on top of guy and use unreal weight advantage to tire him out, then punch his face a billion times.
Unless we see a Cruiserweight division or something, Brock is going to be unstoppable.
BOOSH
Dude, I hate Brock. I hate his gimmick, and I hate his style. But there is no LnP about him. He’s too big and athletic. He sort of Lays and Prays…if LnP includes punching the guy in the face.
I am just waiting for a guy his size and speed to come into MMA with some serious technical ability. aside from wrestling. Like a 280 pound, shredded Fedor. With my face. Hot.
BOOSH
The difference between GSP and Brock Lesnar? Lesnar finish fights.
by cyph on Jul 12, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Suprised Brock haters haven’t pounced on this nugget…“Blah blah class, blah blah sportsmanship.”
A fair reply though…
And 95lbs of muscle.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP has finished 3 of his last 5 fights, no?
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 12, 2009 4:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why would you look past the last fight to make sweeping generalizations about anything?
by Phildo on Jul 12, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point- GSP sucks! Can’t finish a damn fight with a torn groin and bursitis in his elbow, what a pussy.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 12, 2009 4:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously! He didn’t listen to Greg Jackson. Where was the groin hit he asked him to do in the 5th Round?
If GSP decides to move up, I wonder when we'll see him again?
Factoring in his apparent groin pull and the fact that he said if he does move up he’s going to take time to do it the right way and build his body mass up, it could be a long time before we see him fight again.
On the flip-side, I wouldn’t want it any other way, GSP is the consummate pro and if he decides to move up he’s going to mean business.
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 1:42 AM EDT reply actions
UFC will give him the time he needs. He’s not going to fight any welterweights right now, and Silva is busy with Griffin and then Vitor.
How taste my pee pee pee? LIKE WIN!!! Thank you Machida!
When Rogan was talking about who GSP could fight next, Joe Silva was right next to him and said the winner of Kampman/Swick according to Rogan.
sadly
neither one of them stand much of a chance.
Yeah, but if he decides to move up will he vacate the title? It sounds to me like he’s going to do some major body mass changing so he could really challenge the big(ger) boys. Might make it pretty hard to cut back down to 70.
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Brock scares me. He should scare every HW on Earth. He would eat Barnett, Silvia, Arlovski, Nog, and ….yes…..most likely Fedor. There I said it.
GSP needs to stay at 170, he has trouble finishing people here, no need to get hurt at 185.
Fitchs ground game is sick, this guy will be great.
Jesus I though Hendo killed Bisping. He knows we were allies in the war right? If that Hendo shows up he might give Anderson a fight.
Over all I would say good show, not great. Did I mention Brock scares the hell out of me?
He landed 1 power shot and now he can hang with silva?
That’s still a mismatch and I still don’t want to see them fight again this soon. I say give Maia/marquardt winnder the next shot..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 12, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
now there's
a fight I can’t wait to see, Maia and Marquardt is going to be awesome.
If I were Dana I would be groveling to Fedor to come to the UFC to save us from all the WWE antics, Not a fan of it at all
I'm pretty sure Dana doesn't mind
Lesnar is going to make him a mountain of money with those antics.
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
which part
the part when Mir stood up like a mad man and almost charge Lesnar, or the part where Lesnar backed up his shit talking, or could it have been the way Lesnar knows how to handle a crowd.
Brock, other than Fedor and possibly Carwin, is unstoppable.
Bisping = hideously overrated.
Thiago is by no means done. He’s a solid competitor at 170 – but GSP is a step above the game.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 1:51 AM EDT reply actions
15 minutes really?
Losing a decision 29-28 to the #2 or 3 WW is nothing to be ashamed of. He’s going to be a tough fight for a lot of guys in that division.
Brock is going to be MMA's first true superstar
I don’t think his performance tonight can be overstated, he won over a heavily pro-Mir crowd after 60 seconds of mic work.
The more I think about it, the more I am realizing this guy is the future of the UFC.
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 12, 2009 1:56 AM EDT reply actions
Paulo Thiago, your fifteen minutes are up. Sorry.
Bullshit. He had Fitch in several scary situations. I thought this fight legitimized him – he showed more than a (possibly) fluke uppercut. He was game, good on the ground, and kept his head. Just throwing him against a Top-3 WW wasn’t the best thing for him. There are many interesting fights for him – give him a gatekeeper or two and see if he shows a flash of brilliance again before writing him off.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 2:09 AM EDT reply actions
Jon Fitch can’t be choked. He wasted his energy.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions
that might be true
but give credit where it’s due, Paulo did a great job against a great opponent, to say his fifteen are up is ridiculous
I didn’t say that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry I wasn’t directing the last part of that statement at you, just the guy who said his that his fifteen were up, sorry for the confusion
Fagan seems to bash any fighter that he personally doesn't like...
dissing Mir, and Paulo as hype jobs… then saying Bisping did okay (pffft) til he got knocked out (obviously cuz thats who he picked to win)…
I like most of the articles on the site, but the longer I stay here, it becomes obvious where most of the staff’s biases stand…
In the post-fight press conference Dana said he talked to Brock about the antics and Brock said he just over-reacted and he was embarrassed by the way he behaved and he was sorry.
Brock also went on MMA Live and apologized for his behavior as well.
Yeah, he must have had a stunt double whip the shit out of frank huh?
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Drunker Master ftw.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
1. Laughs in opponent’s face, taunts them, mocks them
2. Is sincere, completely apologizes, and is respectful
Bi-Polar Actor Heel?
I’m not gonna argue that he isn’t that. Shit, considering his background and such, Bipolar isn’t out of the park. But it’s not like Frank didn’t jump up and start bitching. I think alot of it is him being a noob with a big Pro-Wrestling heel background who is getting tons of REAL attention. Not to mention that he smashes faces for a living. haha
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Mir is as much to blame for Lesnars immediate ( <——— before you start bashing me) actions, however the part with Joe is something eles.
who's making excuses
everyone wants to hate on Lesnar for next to no reason, then Mir gets up and tries to bull rush him after he got KTFO. You’re damned right Mir is as much to blame for Lesnar telling him that he can talk shit now. Face the facts, Lesnar backed up his shit talking, Mir didn’t.
He apologized and I truly believe he doesn’t like being the “heel” in MMA. It was his schtick and persona in the WWE but theres no way an athlete that trains that hard, and fights that well want to be rewarded with a chorus of boos like that.
We all forget these guys are people not just fighters. I hope Lesnar makes the most of his post win interviews and keeps it humble and respectful.
Forget the Machida era...
This is the Lesnar era. [ducks and covers]
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's lack of senses, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
My dream, over the next few years, Machida and Lesnar continue to win fights, Machida being respectful and Lesnar continuing to play the heel role he does so well. Eventually enough stuff happens for a Lesnar/Machida super fight and Machida wins. Then I can die happy.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
That would be epic. Good vs. Evil plotline between the honorable warrior and the beast that is Brock Lesnar. One could only wish.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Random: Will there be a Night Crew for the K-1 MAX tourney tomorrow night?
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 2:31 AM EDT reply actions
It ain’t on tomorrow night. It’s on HDNET on Friday.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
My thoughts…
Although Bisping was landing jabs and likely on his way to outpointing Hendo, I cannot believe he hadn’t prepared for that overhand right. And that halfassed takedown attempt by Bisping was pathetic. I said it. I dont’ want to fighter bash, but Bisping was scared shitless when he realized “Decision” Dan wanted to break his fucking jaw. Thats my not so humble opinion at least. (I’m also butthurt, because I wanted Bisping to win…yeah, I said that too.)
GSP is a champion’s champion. Alves was a legit threat, especially when it came to kickboxing…and GSP out kickboxed him. GSP put the pitbull down…hard. Props for fighting with multiple injuries as well, and still performing so well.
Now…Lesnar-Mir II. Lesnar pummled Frank. He controlled both of Franks arms in round 1 with only one of his and calmly proceeded to bash his face in. That takes skill folks, like it or not. Now, I will say, I think it would have been a short night for Brock if Mir kept it standing, he looked real good in the second round…but against a guy like Lesnar, you have to do that for more than 5 seconds of the fight. The finish was painful to watch, but the call was good. I don’t know why Frank insisted on rushing to his feet and getting into with Lesnar…with the way Brock acts, Frank is damn lucky he had that much self control.
Final thought on Brock…put yourself in his shoes. You just beat the man who you feel you gave away your first fight to…decisively. He jumps up and gets in your face, you turn and walk away without much of a struggle, and the crowd boos you. I’d do the same thing, but maybe thats because I’m an ass at heart. haha
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
“The finish was painful to watch”
I’m sorry, but thats the only part of your statement I have to disagree with, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Mir get worked over, but hey, thats just me.
by proflex on Jul 12, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
I liked seeing Mir get his mouth shut. When he was interviewed he then tired to sound like the humble guy who got beat and has respect for Lesnar. He’s too cocky for my liking, Lesnar is too but I can see through it, the guy is a master marketer.
Just so there is no confusion, I said “The finish was painful to watch” because I was fondly reminded of baby seals being clubbed. I enjoyed every second of Frank getting smashed, and though his humble interview was garbage. At least Lesnar followed through with his being a heel, Frank just stfu and went home.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
ahh i gotcha
and i agree, it was fun to watch Mir get smashed.
GSP will out kickbox anybody
Not because he’s a better kickboxer (but better than nearly all), but because the threat of the takedown will keep any fighter from fully committing to their strikes.
That would be the same exact reason why any Pro Boxer who thinks they can just jump to the UFC and mess someone up will get taken down and submitted and/or GnP’ed to a stoppage.
Exactly, I didn’t include that, but I explained that to a friend of mine during the PPV. He asked why Thiago won’t get closer to throw the leg kick, and I just told him to wait and watch, he would understand.
When GSP caught a kick, punched him and took him down, he looked at me, smiled, and said “Oh.”
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe at UFC 101
They can have a camera backstage to show several fighters cornering Lesnar and working him over with a chair or breaking a table. Then his WWE wifey can come and hold him while they pan out. Setting up the next time he enters the Octagon where Dana White takes center stage and forces him to fight in a Rumble Royal style death match.
Somebody please beat this dude.
Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
Barry Switzer
henderson should get NO bonus
nor should he receive his fight purse. that punch shows that fighters are still crazy and tend not to have sportsmanship. i was disgusted to watch the replay, like henderson was this flying angel of the super punch and “felt he shut him up”. i am ashamed to have rooted for him. all in all, dan henderson set the sport back a little. all his accomplishments mean nothing at this point.
good luck in life!
I don’t know about all that…there has been FAR worse occasions, and didn’t this look identical to the KO Hendo gave Wand? It’s not like this is anything new…if the ref hasn’t tackled/restrained you…beat that ass. It’s far more “disgusting” to see a fighter power through a ref and continue to fight.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly the first one that came to mind, then Soku vs. Nortje.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Soku was way out of line
Good thing he apologized.
I didn’t even know they had beef.
It was like Soku took his losing streak frustration out on Nortje.
i agree with both of you to a point
hendo jumped into the air seeing that his opponent was out and proceded to destroy his jaw. why would you continue to hit your opponent when they are unable to defend themselves. say what you will about the lower ranks of mma, the UFC has a standard of fighter/PROFESSIONAL. hendo did himslef a disgracce by showing that he is still a brawler and not a professional. this has nothing to do with revenge at that point, THAT was something that could affect an up and comer with a bright future. unprofessional and irresponsible on hendos part.
good luck in life!
“why would you continue to hit your opponent when they are unable to defend themselves.”
because the ref hadn’t stopped the fight that’s way. It’s not over until the ref says it is, it’s not his fault the ref was in bad position.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 12, 2009 4:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the only
thing that can be added to this, and I’ll be honest, I truley didn’t care who won that fight, the ref was on his way to stopping the fight before Hendo went all aerial assault on the count. so the chances of bisping standing were none.
So
Rampage should give his bonus back too? And so should Wandy? We need to get BJ to give back several purses as well. Fighters fight. They know the risks when the step into the ring. Did you watch PRIDE? They had soccer kicks and head stomps.
It might have been a late punch but it was only one and he did stop when the ref intervened. It is a violent sport.
All of his accomplishments could mean nothing and they would still be more worthwhile than your terrible opinions.
by George Lucas on Jul 12, 2009 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather have another “-Gate” than listen to people complain about Lesnar’s “WWE Antics” …please, this is done all the time, and honestly, it’s not that bad. People won’t ever quit complaining about how a “WWE guy” came over and dominated a division. Shut up and enjoy the beatdown.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
Did Bisping have a game plan or did he just forget it? Watching Hendo stalk him was like watching the nature channel when they have Gazelle vs Lion specials.
GSP made it look too easy. Even injured he just did whatever the hell he wanted to to Alves. However I think GSP at 185 is a bad idea. Great fight to watch but what will adding all that muscle do to his career at 170. I’m interested in seeing if Alves will stay at 170 and keep making the ridiculous weight cut or now that he lose so decisively if he’ll want to make it easier on himself and become a Paulo Filo-esq 185er?
Yeah, I thought it was funny to watch Bisping try to stick and move, then watch GSP do so successfully. Bispings lateral movement was complete rubbish, and if I’m not mistaken his left hand was busy throwing a terribly aimed jab that fell short, when he got cracked with that vicious right hand. Where was the defence Bisping? Maybe he worked too much on his wrestling…wait…I remember that takedown attempt…nahhh…
GSP fought the perfect fight, and to do so injured was amazing. I think he should stay at 170 for a good long time, he has a legacy to build, and being on top taking on all comers is the way to do it.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone never watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail? I do believe that came before worms.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea
Definitely a reference to The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Wager History
Bout Wager On Fighter(s) Odds Earnings
• UFC 100 •
[parlay wager] $500 D. Henderson
B. Lesnar
G. St. Pierre -315
-105
-300 +$1,214
Lesnar vs Mir $500 Brock Lesnar -105 +$476
[prediction bonuses] - [view picks] - $310
[season start funds] - - - $1,000
$3,000
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 3:14 AM EDT reply actions
Old man Coleman fucked up my parlay. I do not wish to speak further on the subject of betting, or the subject of old men who defy odds.
Good job though Subo, well played.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions
God, I wish I had had the balls to include Coleman.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Your telling me. Tom Lawlor saved me though, I put a nice little chunk on him.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 12, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
This needs to be
forwarded to MMAsupremacy ASAP. I think it just might be what makes you two friends again.
I had Coleman
But damn, I feel into the Bisping hype, and included that into my parlay.
Bad move.
Wow
They just said “Randy Coocher” on ESPN. I guess we gotta start somewhere.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 12, 2009 4:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jones
Something I would expect from the BE crew now (or rather, from Nate) is an article on latest spinning elbow from Jones, which led him to winning the fight against O’Brien a few moments later.
It was quite spectacular. Obviously a prepared move, he faked the takedown just to immidiately switch into a spin and land an elbow on the top of his opponent’s head.
Things we learned about Brock Lesnar
He is strong.
That is all.
by mythbuster on Jul 12, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd say...
we also learned that he is more controlled, his sub defense is getting better, his positioning is better…
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 12, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I waiting for some serious analysis of Brock.
So many people are caught up in their dislike for him they’re missing what Brock is doing. His affect on the UFC reminds me of Wilt Chamberlain or Shaquille O’Neal’s affect on the NBA. They were so physically beyond most everyone else they changed the way the game was played. Brock is so physically gifted people are going to have to make some fundamental changes. Frank Mir is arguably the best heavyweight on the ground and Lesnar took him down, held him there (pretty much helpless) and pounded him out. Oh ya, this is his 5th fight. He’s beaten Frank Mir, Heath Herring, Randy Couture. Not bad for a beginner.
Now Brock will get beat. Everyone does. But his abilities are going to change some of the fundamentals of of UFC fighting. Can’t wait to see how people evolve.
Exactly.
The same way that Coleman changed the way people fought. His power & athleticism looked unstoppable for a while there, but people eventually figured out how to beat him with a great defensive guard and superior cardio. The same thing will eventually happen with Lesnar.
Evolution is what makes this sport great, and a big monstrous athlete like Brock forces his opponents to adapt or go extinct.
I wouldn’t. I saw Mir go for one sub, a kimura, from the bottom in half-guard without any set-up. A white belt could have shrugged that off.
More controlled? During the fight what did he do that was any more controlled, or do you mean in his interview after the fight where he lost his marbles?
Positioning? He layed on top of a guy he outweighed by 40+ pounds and held his arms while he dropped bombs on his face.
Sorry, but Brock wins because he is absurdly strong, large, and fast. I’ll change my tune when I see some skill aside from a takedown.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Jul 12, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you
Someone with reason. People are so eager to attribute god like abilities to Lesnar, that they fail to see that he is the same fighter he always was. A big, extremely strong guy who can man-handle his opponents. That’s it.
by mythbuster on Jul 12, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm just curious
did you guys make this same argument when Matt Hughes came into the UFC? I only ask because it’s pretty much the same scenario, Strong wrestler comes in and dominates the division with “no skill” or maybe you guys had this same argument over Randy,
Well
I wasn’t watching when Hughes came into the UFC, but if he outweighed his opponents by 30-50+ lbs, yeah I probably would have.
* checks calender *
Ok I’ll give you that point, but I’m sure that Hughes did outweigh most of his opponents come fight time. Well that is until recently
Stop diminishing Brock’s accomplishments. He’s 4-1 with wins over Herring, Couture and Mir (the only guy to ever beat him). He’ll never impress you, and that’s fine – your position is clear. And I’m pretty sure Brock would be ok with being the Matt Hughes of the HW division.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well played.
I am being serious though.
If you had been around when guys like Coleman & Kerr came into the sport, you would realize this is nothing new. There was that same sense of ‘OMG! How is anyone ever going to contend with these guys?’. With the benefit of hindsight we all know that people eventually did figure out a way to beat them, but at the time there was a ton of hand-wringing over the big scary wrestlers taking over the sport.
Brock Lesnar is no different. It might take a year or two, but people will eventually figure out a way to beat him too. Then it becomes a question of whether Brock can adapt to what they are doing.
The best way to do so would be, with the inevitable influx of larger athletes who fail at the NFL and don’t want to do pro wrestling, to separate heavyweight from super heavyweight. I am all for this. Even remove the upper weight limit to expand, if needed.
This way, Cro Cop and Vera can get their asses kicked by Velasquez from here to eternity in the cruiserweight division.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is everyone always including Vera in cruiserweight talks?
His last two fights were LHW, as his next fight will be if I am not mistaken
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 13, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably
because he’s shown that his gas tank suffers at LHW. A cruiserweight division would be almost perfect for him.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
you guys need to watch more amateur wrestling
a ton of technique goes into that kind of top control.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 12, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you, thank you, thank you
Honestly, as a former wrestling coach, that’s what got me into the sport – there are so many subtle shifts of weight and positioning that can mean the difference between winning and losing. I’m learning about the BJJ stuff, and being on your back as a good thing is taking a while to process, but yeah, there’s a hell of a lot of strategy and thinking that goes into being able to maintain top position for that long.
It ain’t all just the 30 extra pounds in Lesnar’s case. I’ve sen plenty of 230 lb. wrestlers beat 280 lbs. kids on the mat because their skill level was higher. I hope Mir’s defenders don’t hang their hat on “Well, Lesnar weighs 30 lbs. more, that’s why he won.” Anyone who’s wrestled heavyweight in HS or college will laugh at you.
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
I hopeMir’s defendersLesnar’s detractors don’t hang their hat on "Well, Lesnar weighs 30 lbs. more, that’s why he won."
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 13, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He also has long arms. He is also a total weirdo. Who freaks out like that after you win? Who says that stuff about coors light and bud light? Who symbolically beats people with horseshoes from their ass? Who tells millions of people that they “might” get on top of their wife later on that evening? Seriously, Brock Lesnar is just way to weird a guy for me to stomach. He did an awesome job but then just totally nutted up on everyone.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Can't you give the man more credit than that?
At least the others who really dislike and hate on brock can give the guy more credit than just being strong..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 12, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I missed his amazing boxing and “legendary” wrestling as he was using only his strength to hold Mir. I give him full credit for being strong.
unless you missed it
it was his legendary wrestling that put Mir on his back, and kept him there, and his amazing boxing that knocked him the f out.
by proflex on Jul 12, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Did we watch a different fight?
eh, probably not. Good to know that you consider laying on someone and hitting them to be amazing boxing.
I was being sarcastic, but why does everyone dog on Lesnar for being this unskilled fighter. Unless I missed it, some of the greatest fighters in UFC history have started out the exact same way, but no one trashes them the same way you guys are hating Lesnar.
The dislike of Lesnar is due to his personality and his actions.
I’m questioning his skills (as always) because I have yet to see them. I have only seen him out-strong people smaller than he is. * shrug *
see this
is a conversation, you at least can be honest as to why. Most people are still stuck on his WWE stuff, but being strong like him is his advantage. Would you expect him not to use his strength to his advantage. That would be like GSP not using his takedowns because people don’t like it.
Of course he should use his strength, it has served him well over the years. I’ve never said otherwise, and I’d easily question his intellect (more-so than now) if he decided to try to box someone much smaller than him, rather than just dominate via strength. He goes with his advantages, I don’t blame him for that.
I’m talking about his amazing boxing and legendary wrestling, which I have yet to see. All I have seen so far is a very strong guy.
It's Mir's fault for not forcing Lesnar into those positions
where he’d have to show amazing boxing of BJJ skills. Frank let Brock take this match right where Brock wanted it – on the ground, next to the cage. Unless he thought those knees where going to knock Lesnar out cold, it was pretty poor strategy to GIVE Lesnar his leg next to the cage. What did Frank think was gonna happen?
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
Your point seems to be you don't believe...
Lesnar possess boxing and BJJ skills because he hasn’t shown them. I contend that in this fight, that’s one of the reasons Mir lost – he didn’t force Lesnar into territory where he was uncomfortable and to use skills that may not be as developed. Frank Mir let Brock Lesnar take this fight right where he wanted it to go, and used Frank’s own technique to get there.
Your point is a bit like saying Ichiro doesn’t hit for power in MLB. Well, when what you’re doing works…
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
Your point seems to be you don’t believe Lesnar possess boxing and BJJ skills because he hasn’t shown them.
You got me. I am a reality based person, I admit it. I bet Brock is also a world class pianist. Just because he has never shown any ability to play the piano shouldn’t interfere with my desire to believe he can. 
Well, get used to his face
Because he’s not going anywhere.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
WRESTLING IS A SKILL
and Lesnar has really good top control TECHNIQUE
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 12, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Will you agree that top control is easier when the one on top is much stronger than the one on bottom?
sure
I’m also advocating for a 230lb division. But Mir would still likely be in the bigger division. Mir’s big enough and strong enough to hang with Lesnar.
He fought a terrible fight — pulling guard after the knee?!? WTF was he thinking?
And his bottom game was completely shut down. That doesn’t just happen. Either Mir made some major tactical mistakes in trying to work from 1/2 guard or Lesnar has really improved his top control game.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 12, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
can't you just
feel the love, that is basically what I was trying to say all along, I apologize if my point wasn’t clear, but Lesnars wrestling technique is what one that fight. Boxing was a little shaky at best, but what do you expect from someone who has only trained for three years and trying to train in all aspects of MMA
Watch the fight again, and pay attention the the position of the arms and hips of Mir and Brock.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
what position
everyone wants Mir to be this great fighter, and they are partially right, but the fact of the matter is that Mir couldn’t do a damned thing, he tried to hold half guard and failed miserably, hate Lesnar or not, it was his skills that kept Mir on his back, and improved boxing that knocked him out. Yes Lesnars strength played a part in it, but how could it not. Would you be saying the same things if Mir had won by a submission? Would you say that it was Mir’s natural aptitude for BJJ and martial arts in general that one the fight, or attribute it to his abilities?
Jesus fucking Christ, myth
Get on your bike and ride that thing. Lesnar was uber impressive against one of the best BJJ guys in his division.
Last night we learned who the #2 heavyweight in the world is.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re the biggest Lesnar mark around here – do you see him beating Fedor?
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that would be me
I just don’t post as often.
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
Fedor has dealt with being under people that big before (Mark Hunt), but none with such an active top game. I could see Lesnar decisioning Fedor, but perhaps not finishing. I don’t like Lesnar himself, but he’s a fuckin’ beast in a fight.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously,
I think Brock could finish Fedor. If he can work top control for a whole round’s worth of fight, it’s essentially over.
Brock found something in this rematch with Mir. He found his power in GnP. Before, it was always the donkey kong approach with the million-hammer-fists-of-doom that couldn’t cause much damage. Last night, he figured out a way to translate his freakish power and strength into vicious GnP. If he can continue to develop this, then his insane positional control will translate into some seriously dominant performances.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Again, I agree completely.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 12, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact he doesn’t need much space to do damage is scary.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
He created just enough space
with his control of Frank’s arm. Go back and look at the last exchange – Brock’s left hand is controlling Frank’s arm, and giving JUST ENOUGH space to land those punches to the ribs and then to the face.
That’s a technique I’m pretty sure we will see again from Lesnar.
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
In a cage I would bet on Lesnar
In a ring Fedro whoops him
If Brock gets Fedro against the cage like he did to Mir its lights out.
Obviously in both scenarios either guy could potentially KO the other
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 13, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
What a night...
Well, about the same time Lesnar won…. my daughter was born. I said the only thing that could keep me from watching UFC 100 was the birth of my daughter and sure enough, lol. Now the wife wants to put a Brock Lesnar poster over the baby’s crib :)
George Lucas is a major douche bag... do everyone a favor and forget how to use the internet.
by Gunslinger20 on Jul 12, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Thanx guys...
I told my wife when I made a bet with my dad that the baby would be born on July 11th that we would name her Brock if she came on the 11th and he won….. well that freaked her the hell out after she watched the Randy Couture fight and she started bawling… lol. She said a poster or that Spencer’s cardboard cut out of him by her crib will work for her… :)
George Lucas is a major douche bag... do everyone a favor and forget how to use the internet.
by Gunslinger20 on Jul 12, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Congrats dude..
There’s lots of bids floating around the web anyway so you’d still catch up.. Although it sucked that the prelims weren’t shown.. I really wanted to see how bones, miller and Coleman did..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 12, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Tho not sure why you’d want a poster of Brock anywhere near her. I hope you have higher aspirations for her as a human than that :\
And you wonder why people think your hatred of Lesnar is excessive.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 13, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions
congrats!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 12, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember, they’re never too young to start training!
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Congratulations.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 12, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Carwin by 1st round (T)KO
Mir landed a few shots in the second before he got careless and taken down. And you could see when he landed those shots that Brock was not enjoying those one bit. Brock’s got sick wrestiling but Carwin could be good enough to keep it standing and he damn well has a hell of a lot more power than Mir. After Carwin beats Cain he’s going to knock out Lesnar.
As for Paulo Thiago, he may not be the next big thing in the welterweight division, but it’s not like Fitch embarassed him in there. Fitch is one of the best in the world and he hung in there all 15 minutes.
Nah
After Carwin beats Cain, they will keep giving him fights til he inevitably loses so they can say that he isn’t good enough to challenge for the belt.
I believe I heard that they are going to give Brock the winner of the Couture-Nog fight, so it kind of proves that they don’t want any legit challenges to their money machine.
After that they are going to give him Heath Herring again just so he can prove he can finish him. Then comes Brock-Couture 3.
BOOSH
The UFC has never really protected their champs before… Even if Brock loses the belt he will probably always be a win away from another title shot and he is a PPV draw regardless.
by Dropkick434 on Jul 12, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Things I learned about GSP last night
Holy shit… can anything stop this guy in his weight class? Hype aside, I was truly worries every time they were on their feet, and how strong Alves was to just shrug him off at times. But GSP survived and dominated. Amazing guy!
And, unlike some other champion(s), truly respectful and classy – in victory or defeat.
OK, so there it is.
GSP = Good……………..Brock Lesnar = Evil
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Wrestling: GSP's = Domination // Lesnar's = Boring
Personally, I was impressed by both performances.
I don’t know if Brock’s wrestling is what has elicited the different reactions as much as his behavior after the dominating wrestling.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
GSPs wrestling overcomes larger, stronger opponents.
Brock has yet to face a larger, stronger opponent.
Don’t try to compare the two, please. It’s beyond silly.
Well, Carwin maybe. And I doubt the UFC will be hiring any new heavyweights who could pose a serious challenge to him.
You’re ridiculous. The notion that Brock Lesnar has been protected by the UFC has one proponent – you.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course he is being protected...
Giving a new fighter in this order:
Mir, Herring, Couture, Mir
PROTECTION!!! GIVE HIM A REAL FIGHT FFS!
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 13, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Protected?
those are three of the best in the heavy weight division in the UFC, if Carwin, or Cain where in the UFC’s eyes worthy of a shot at the title, then they will get it, but name anyone in the UFC that is more dangerous then those two, I’m not counting Herring here, the only one I can even remotely think that is on par with Courture or Mir in the UFC is Gonzaga. I’d bet you’d be hard pressed to find anyone else in the division that is as dangerous.
Oh shit, I'm doing it! I'm comparing the two!
Alls I’m saying is, some fighters positionally control their opponents and are called boring. Others do the same and are called amazing. I agree that GSP is a more skilled fighter and more interesting fighter to watch than say, Gray Maynard, but I think the double standard is hilarious.
Here's the problem
If the weight limit is 265, Lesnar’s not gonna see anyone bigger and stronger than him. That’s not his fault.
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
You seemed to be arguing
that Brock has some sort of unfair advantage due to his size.
Now, if that’s not your argument, my apologies. But I don’t see anyone else in the UFC cutting 20 lbs to make 265. And certainly not anyone as fast as Brock is cutting down that much.
"We're not the other teams' farm system." - Andy MacPhail
that Brock has some sort of unfair advantage due to his size.
Absolutely NOT. It is within the current rules, and thus fair.
Are the rules fair?
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That's usually
where the anti-Brock crowd heads: change the rules (usually by either quicker standups or dividing up the weight classes to quarantine the beast) to make it harder for a guy like Brock to do what he’s done.
I’m not saying there’s zero validity in the drive to make either rule change, but it’s funny how often they come up in the attack against Brock’s legitimacy/accomplishments/skills.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
yeah, kind of silly. Like how people always mention heat when talking about the tropics! I mean, it stays true but people shouldn’t bring it up anymore.
You swung and missed here, myth.
A better metaphor would have been (sticking with the tropics theme):
“Yeah, it’s like how people want to discuss nationalizing air conditioning in the tropics. I mean, everyone knows it’s hot there, but nobody wants to make the necessary changes to rectify the situation.”
Even that’s an awfully long stretch.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
How Lawful are you – you seem to be all about the rules.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
You guys even get upset when I say it’s fair.
you know, seriously, go outside, do something. This issue isn’t worth the frustration it must be putting you guys through.
In one thread, you defended the idea that the judges determine the reality of the fight. In this one, you defined fairness as “being within the rules.” Both very Lawful propositions – it’s a fair question.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 12, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t have very good answers for those.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 13, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
What I took away from UFC 100
It was a day of reckoning for “TUF Contenders”. The hype surrounding guys like Bisping, Dollaway, and Danzig often gets them rankings and attention they don’t “deserve”. Thankfully, things in the UFC are decided in the ring and eventually the natural order has a way of working things out.
Not saying the guys are cans or that they don’t belong. I’m just saying that without the TUF hype machine we wouldn’t be seeing them get the opportunities they’ve gotten so soon.
Here’s to the best sport taking care of its business inside the ring.
I loved that.
It’s exactly the kind of thing a doubting fighter needs to hear from his coach.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
DO SOMETHING KEV
The only corner I enjoy listening to more is Coleman (and the Hammer House in general).
My girlfriend commented on Greg Jackson’s tone of voice and cadence, how it was set up perfectly to calm someone down and get them to loosen up.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
He also throws in the occasional laugh. Greg Jackson makes fighters better.
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 12, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Greg Jackson is exactly who you want in your corner when the shit has hit the fan.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
If I knew that guy, I would have him on speed dial.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 12, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That is true. But also sounded like he talked to a kid. Especially so after round three. “What a great round, George.”
“Oh, what a great sand castle you built George. It’s beeeautifuuuul.”
Hey
It’s better than ‘you need to step back and throw 1-2 to the side. 1-2 to the side.’
How's the weather up your own ass? - Stephen Colbert
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 13, 2009 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions
When you're fighting, or wrestling, or competing athletically
one-on-one against someone with everything you’ve got, your blood gets pumping so fast, and everything gets ridiculously narrowed, that someone talking like that is the only way they can convey calmness to you. You don’t take it badly whatsoever, you take it as it’s intended, and Jackson knows that better than (apparently) any other coach in MMA.
Most corners keep their fighters all jacked up with stuff like “You’re winning the stand-up! Don’t let him get you to the cage, 1-2 circle, 1-2 circle, maintain your distance!” Jackson just wants to get one little piece of advice in there, but to do that, he’s gotta calm his boy down.
I’m not trying to be all poetic and shit, but watch those corner sessions again. You can literally see GSP’s eyes go from hardened, focused laser beams to soft and coherent again after about fifteen seconds of Jackson talking to him. That’s all he’s trying to do.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
