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Overvaluing the Rift Between the UFC and Fedor Emelianenko

Fedorbeatsarlovski_mediumWhile it's noteworthy that a publication as well known as Time is giving the UFC and the larger sport of MMA some play, it's regrettable that they would introduce the general public to the contentious UFC/Fedor situation by overstating the Russian fighter's value within the confines of North America.  To wit:

Imagine a pro quarterback with Peyton Manning's talent playing up in the Canadian Football League instead of the NFL. Or picture Tiger Woods shunning the PGA and all the major championships to star in the second-string Nationwide Tour. It may sound ridiculous, but the fast-growing, wildly popular sport of mixed martial arts (MMA) is grappling with such an unthinkable, uncomfortable scenario.

That's how the article starts out, and this is how it ends:

So despite growing pressure from ultimate-fighting fans who want White to sign Fedor, it doesn't look like the pair will be doing celebratory vodka shots anytime soon. "Fedor doesn't make or break my business one way or the other, you know what I mean?" says White. "The reality is, I don't need Fedor." Still, over the long term, the Fedor-White standoff could leave mixed martial arts much like pro boxing, decimated by warring promoters and fighters, with talent spread across too many divisions for followers to keep count. After all, no sport can keep rolling in the dough if fans keep feeling shortchanged.

There is some good information in between these two excerpts, and I'm glad Dana White's perspective was at least given some attention.  Although, in my mind, the conclusions which the article draws are over-the-top.  The USAT/SBN Consensus Rankings accurately ranks Fedor (in my mind, anyway) as the top heavyweight fighter in the world.  Though some may contend that Fedor hasn't regularly fought the top contenders since the dismantling of Pride, his body of work over the years is impeccable.  He probably deserves the to be slotted at #1 until he's defeated or he completely falls off the MMA map.  However, skill and accomplishments don't necessarily equal name value, and that's really what we're talking about here.  The undeniable difference between Fedor and Tiger Woods or Fedor and Peyton Manning is that Fedor's name doesn't register with many of the fans who consume UFC-branded products.  The other two well-known athletes were held in high standing among U.S. sports fans even before either made their professional debuts.  While the UFC has done much to bolster their brand outside of North America and continues to build a global product, most of their business is still done within the boundaries of the aforementioned continent in front of U.S. and Canadian fans.

With all this mind, it seems a stretch to hypothesize that a UFC without Fedor leads to the promotional fragmentation that's synonymous with boxing.  Even if Peyton Manning were to leave the NFL for the CFL, there's little doubt that the NFL could absorb the hit quite well.  It would take a lot of defections, leading to the erosion of overall starpower and talent, to really hurt the NFL or the UFC.  I'm certainly not equating the UFC to the NFL in terms of total dollar value or overall popularity, but both are in similarly dominant positions vis a vis their respective sports.  In fact, the UFC has done more to mobilize top talent under one promotional roof than any other MMA promotion in the world.  The attention UFC events garner in comparison to what we've seen and will see in regard to media attention directed at Fedor and Affliction somewhat debunks the contention that signing Fedor is a must for the UFC and/or the sport of MMA.

If the most talented football player made his mark in Japan with most North American fans unaware of his supposed greatness, would the NFL ever feel a significant impact due to not signing the player in question?

HT:  MMA Fanhouse

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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“If the most talented football player made his mark in Japan with most North American fans unaware of his supposed greatness, would the NFL ever feel a significant impact due to not signing the player in question?”

Yes, provided that mainstream publications gradually exposed the situation for what it is. Perhaps even this story would make Time Magazine?

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 8:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No, the NFL would feel zero impact…

If the (alleged) best QB in the world was playing in the CFL, UFL, Japan, etc the NFL wouldn’t be hurting, the player would be, because people would keep saying he’s afraid to play against the best in the best league, which is turn would make the best QB in the world not the best QB in the world because he wouldn’t be in the NFL playing against the best…

random fan would say “ya, he threw for 5,000 yards in the CFL, but it’s a wider field, more receivers, receivers running towards the LOS before the snap, and he’s playing against 2nd tier talent in a 2nd tier league, he’s NOT the best QB in the world”…

just like random fans can say “ya, Fedor dominates in a ring, but he’s never won in a cage or the octogon, and he’s never been UFC Champion and he’s fought alot of guys who were cut/released from the UFC and a lot of no names”…

it’s kind of like Warren Moon, people, including himself, talked about him not winning the Super Bowl, no one “cared” that he won multiple Grey Cups…much like a majority of mma fans (mostly casual) don’t care that Fedor is wamma champ or ranked #1, if he’s not doing in or can’t do it in the UFC, it doesn’t really matter…

not that I agree with that, but that’s how it is (except of course on an mma site like this where everyone knows who Fedor is, etc)…

by Reaser16 on Jul 10, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

(Organized team sports are a bad analogy to begin with, etc.*)

*the relevance being half of the analysis (most of the opinion-based analysis) was based on stretchtastic football analogies and whathaveyous.

So was your post. I don’t follow, but not because I’m stupid because it makes no sense and is incomparable. Does Fedor fumble too much? Shit I guess Andrei Arlovski is a lot like Kurt Warner. I follow, but it’s just stupid.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes a lot of sense, though a lot of the argument requires a moderate knowledge of professional football. The one thing that is universal across most sports is the idea that “other” leagues are “lesser” leagues because the competition is weaker. In a lot of cases (I’ll admit to not knowing much about auto racing or soccer), this is true. For MMA, or at least for Fedor, this isn’t true, but it is an easy line of thinking to fall into.

by An Old Friend on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes. The CFL have several players who would be all-stars in the NFL at every position. If only the Cavaliers would call up LeBron from the D-league then he’d really get the exposure necessary but in the meantime he’s unproven. I mean I understand the Cavs only want to sign him to a 6 year deal and he wants a 2 year deal or less. I can perfectly understand why people in Cleveland are so supportive of the Cavaliers in this situation. Why doesn’t he just play by their terms, what a dick. I’m glad his dumbass isn’t on our team.

Analogies are easy. Analysis is hard.

 You cannot ignore the contract/negotiation aspect when it comes to analyzing the Fedor/UFC situation. Does Time acknowledge it? No. but neither does this response. Which is just as bad.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see you’re using words in the English language, but they don’t make any sense in the order you have them in here. I don’t know what to say to help you—read some stuff that isn’t on your computer screen?

by An Old Friend on Jul 11, 2009 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, you’re saying that for MMA, Fedor makes other leagues equivalent to the UFC? This kind of thinking is the reason why Affliction made the disastrous decision of creating their own competing league.

by cyph on Jul 11, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, just that the HW competition outside of the UFC, at least up until this point, has been quite good. If we’re talking about Jake Shields, it’s another story. And admittedly, Fedor did have a couple of years where he wasn’t facing the best possible competition (to put it mildly), but in two different stretches (2003-5, 2008-9), he has been fighting opponents worthy of his time. After the Barnett fight, those days will come to an end—Werdum, Overeem, et al, are good fighters, but not significantly better than what UFC has to offer at heavyweight.

by An Old Friend on Jul 11, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To an

extent both Silvia and Arlovski could be considered past their prime. Barnett should be Fedors biggest test in 4 years. I don’t think Barnett is #2 in the world though.

by Riney on Jul 11, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree on all points, and I would have liked to have seen Couture vs. Fedor back in 2007. Still, I don’t think you can compare Fedor to Shields or Lawler (before he lost to Shields).

by An Old Friend on Jul 11, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I only dream about Fedor vs Couture in 07. You need to stop that, UFC 100 starts soon.

by Riney on Jul 11, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem I have with these sorts of statements is they are totally based on hignsight. When Fedor fought Silvia, people said it was his first top 10 test for years. Same with AA. Then Fedor tears through them and all of the sudden they are past their prime and not an achievement anymore.

The same thing happened with Machida right up until he won the belt. Soko is a top 10 LHW… oh not any more. Tito is still top 10… oh not any more. Thiago is undefeated and Machida’s first big test… oh not anymore, he still hasn’t beaten anyone.

My guess is that after Affliction 3, Barnett will then be overrated and Fedor will be back to not defeating anyone top 10 in the last however many years :)

by brad23 on Jul 13, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gah… *hindsight

Damn lack of edit capabilities :)

by brad23 on Jul 13, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barnett is already far overrated. AA and Sylvia were also overrated when they fought Fedro. They are overrated because they suddenly jumped in the rankings due to being scheduled to fight Fedro.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 13, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They’re past their primes not because Fedor beat them. They’re past their primes because scrubs beat them afterward.

by cyph on Jul 13, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comparing team sports to individual sports is “bad” in that there are a lot of differences. That’s where Time went with their analysis, so I just stuck with that to illustrate the flaws as I saw them. One could probably deem all analogies “bad” insofar as they are imperfect comparisons.

The mainstream media doesn’t elevate Fedor to the point that it hurts the UFC to not have him. The Time article, which I don’t know how many people will read or take seriously, is an anomaly in that respect. Furthermore, I think it’s a little misleading. I have yet to see a large movement by UFC fans demanding that Dana White sign Fedor.

by Cannon Jacques on Jul 10, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

“The mainstream media doesn’t elevate Fedor to the point that it hurts the UFC to not have him.”

I’m not saying that it does. I’m saying as MMA gets more popular it can and will and this is just a starting point. As long as we’re still trying to do the whole better than boxing and pro-wrestling thing that the article also mentions.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can’t possibly know what the mainstream media will focus on if and when they start paying attention to the UFC/Fedor debate. I suppose it’s possible.

In regard to the contract aspect, what should have been said? Fedor wants to be able to fight other places – MMA and Sambo – and a stadium in Russia would be great. The UFC wants to lock him into a restrictive if not a somewhat onerous contract. That’s what I’ve seen. I don’t think getting into the sticky details of the reported contract demands of both sides makes anything I wrote any more or less valid. I’ve done a lot of MMA analysis on and off the staff of this site. Whether or not that analysis is, on balance, good or bad is a matter of opinion. You can take any article on this site and dismiss it, because something wasn’t covered or an analogy was “bad.” Virtually, no blog post is a comprehensive look at any issue.

by Cannon Jacques on Jul 10, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a lot of great analogies to be made re: MMA/Sambo

bring up all the athletes who have been injured doing other athletic things while under huge contracts and ruined shit for their team or careers.

that would make sense.

what you brought up there is just grasping at straws.

I’m going to get off of this computer and go get drunk. Come with me!

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And until

Fedor starts selling 300K PPV and the UFC falls under that mark I can’t say it will be an issue. Fedor isn’t a PPV draw. He hasn’t fought top guys lately. Yes I do think he is number one but he needs more quality opposition.

The UFC has 70% of the top fighters in the world under 1 banner. We see the best fight the best on a regular basis. No other promotion in MMA or boxing can give that to its fans.

This issue is moot until Fedor becomes bigger than the UFC.

by Riney on Jul 10, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This has nothing to do with me tiring of organized team sports analysis in relation to mixed martial arts. Though I agree with you, except for my point being moot based off of what you said considering my point was not addressed by you.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you were the first one to respond to an organized team sports analysis in relation to mixed martial arts, and you answered yes, clearly not knowing anything about football.

I was responding to you being wrong about the NFL feeling an impact, I was not making my own point comparing football to mma…

It is funny though that you start saying how you don’t like the comparison and it doesn’t make sense, only after you were wrong…

by Reaser16 on Jul 10, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was the first one to respond to the silly relation trying to be made between football players’ rights and athletes that are their own entity in some regard at some point. While I understand the counter-argument and realize that I had been a little incensed in a silly fashion. I do not necessarily believe that I should have been edited and belittled without the option of being read as is. I understood while making my points that they would not have been popular and expected a response to that.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 11, 2009 5:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being better than Time isn’t exactly the greatest praise, but you’re definitely better than Time, CJ.

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 8:31 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

@Riney this was

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 10, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His point was that Fedor isn’t the best fighter in the world. It was on-topic.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 10, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My response is that Miguel Torres is not the best fighter in the world.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 11, 2009 4:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your response was that he was off-topic. I was correcting you. Carry on.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 12, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, that one was posted almost an hour earlier.

by a tommy point on Jul 10, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the deal.

I did this one just before I noticed yours. It was posted while I was working on mine, and in the process doing it I didn’t see yours. I apologize if I stepped on it.

However, since the two are very different, I wasn’t going to forsake my thoughts on the article and delete this post. If I had seen the first post I probably wouldn’t have done mine and instead posted my thoughts elsewhere. Call me selfish or whatever, but that’s how it happened.

by Cannon Jacques on Jul 10, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to clarify: I don’t care if there are two. I thought that guy was asking for the other one to be deleted. Didn’t realize he made the post.

by a tommy point on Jul 10, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the article...

It’s well written and it’s a different take on mine (which was more just an overview of the article) I just wish all the conversations were in one place. Keep up the good work.

by HonorableJudgeIto on Jul 10, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if luke, brent, mike, nate, etc.. made a post about the time article would you ask them to delete it imply that they should delete it?

by Anton Tabuena on Jul 10, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how much money the t-shirt guy spent on that article, because it reads like an Affliction sponsored piece. Fedor is irrelevant to the UFC he’s one loss away from losing every bit of hype and buzz he has and considering how his counterparts in the HW from Pride have done to proclaim him the best anything is ridiculous.

by Raker on Jul 10, 2009 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s just the media looking for a saucy angle no matter how weak it is to those in the know – imo.

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 11, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You are already a member of this community!

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 11, 2009 4:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I also realize that my response to an article about overvaluing the rift between the UFC and Fedor was essentially a call to stop overvaluing the rift between the UFC and Fedor.

Everybody fightin' bout a spoonful...

by plastict on Jul 11, 2009 5:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We’ve already seen similar situations in other pro sports.

Sadahara Oh has the most home runs in the history of professional baseball and never played one inning in the major leagues. People may scoff at the Japanese leagues, but the recent performance of Japanese players in MLB and their dominance in the World Baseball Classic has made it very clear that the Japanese game is VERY competitive with the western product.

Arvydas Sabonis was the greatest amateur basketball player of the modern era, but didn’t get to play in the NBA until after he was 30 and his knees were shot. Yet even a washed up Sabonis still managed to be one of the best big men in the NBA in the mid to late 1990s.

Fedor’s situation is unusual, but it is not unique.

by Steve4192 on Jul 12, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was hoping someone was going to go for a Sadaharu Oh reference! You could also try to hold it against NASCAR that Helio Castroneves doesn’t drive for them. There are much better examples than Manning and Tiger Woods.

It’s interesting that someone like Oh never came to the US, but current stars like Ichiro and Matsuzaka have due to the rise in salaries in general in MLB. Negro League players were clearly better than many MLB players during the pre-Robinson days. Most early american football stars in college chose not to play in the NFL because college ball was considered the pinnacle of the sport. Vast sums of revenue are the only real solution to the problem of spread-out talent. It becomes even more difficult when your main competition for talent is willing to run at huge deficits in order to overpay their fighters. Luckily for the UFC, they cannot keep it up for long.

by Stanlee on Jul 13, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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