Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez at UFC 104
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 7:55 PM EDT
163 comments
This Fan Post was promoted to the front page by Nick Thomas.
According to Shane Carwin's last 2 Twitter messages:
Looks like I'll be fighting October 24 in LA. Excited to know.
Oops I was not supposed to say anything. Got to get used to people watching me. No bout agreement yet. Looks like Cain and I if all goes.
Obviously, this is an extremely interesting matchup, and the winner could very well get a title shot. I'm sort of surprised they're matching them up this quickly, but at least no one can say the UFC is babying their up-and-coming heavyweights. My initial thoughts are that if Cain Velasquez (5-0) got dropped by Kongo, he's going to have massive trouble with Shane Carwin's (11-0) power.
photos via ufc.com
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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We’ll see about this fight, but i’m curious to see how Carwin’s chin is and if Cain is going to test it like Gonzaga did in their fight.
by Raker on Jul 1, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
With Cain wobbling every time Kongo landed something I’d say it’s his chin we should be worried about. Had those punches been from Carwin instead of Kongo, Cain might not have been able to come back from them the way he did.
by Disco1Stu on Jul 1, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Kongo landed some blows that would of dropped most fighters, I’d say his chin is one of his best assets.
Doesn't anybody think before they speak/post anymore?
by Big Boob Lover on Jul 1, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve never seen Kongo drop any fighter that many times that easily. Not that Cain has a bad chin, but against Kongo it was def his weakest spot in that fight (His Achilles chin if you will, Joe), and Carwin is known to have extreme punching power. If Kongo’s power gave him trouble, Carwin will be even worse.
by Disco1Stu on Jul 1, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't his chin that was the trouble
it was that he couldn’t stop getting hit
by yngjzy on Jul 1, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good chin, bad defense.
I think Cain will struggle with Carwin as well, he isn’t going to be able to control him like he did Kongo, and Carwin’s GnP has a hell of a lot more power than Cain’s.
by brad23 on Jul 1, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is something I'm going to be writing an article on...
in the next few days once my work situation settles down. The difference between a bad chin (Goulet) and a guy whose defense is so bad that he gets hit a lot and as such get’s rocked/KO’ed a lot. With small gloves bad defense means you’ll get KO’ed or knocked out with somewhat regularity no matter how “good” your chin is.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 2, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love it. Has to be the co-main event right?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh my.
This would be gargantuan – and even Mir versus the winner would sell a million. Cain or Shane v Lesnar might sell two.
I, for one, am picking Carwin for now – but Cain impressed me against Kongo, showing the same thing Carwin did against Gonzaga (namely, the ability to take a punch and recover) sans one punch knockout power.
This is a perfectly good main event.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mir versus the winner would sell a million
LOL
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 1, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
‘Frank Mir, two time undisputed UFC Heavyweight champion that beat Brock Lesnar twice, faces his greatest challenge in Shane Carwin/Cain Velasquez. Also, Rashad Evans and Rampage Jackson finally settle their feud (clip of ’BLACK ON BLACK CRIME!!")’
Yes – especially as part of the big December card, where the next HW title fight will likely be.
I like how you didn’t laugh at the second part, as you know it to be true.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I don’t think this is where that fight would be. Rampage/Rashad would headline in Memphis, and the HW title fight would headline on Jan 2nd in Vegas.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be – and the day after New Year’s might be even better.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Randy doesn’t sign the contract extension – which is unlikely – he will be fighting the winner of Brock vs Mir on Jan 2nd (assuming he beats Nog which is a given unless he’s really aged).
the winner of Carwin vs Cain will get the winner of that fight in 2010.
by mmalogic on Jul 1, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy’s got to give out at some point. Everyone does.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A given? And he is old
why isn’t he seriously thinking about retiring?
Doesn't anybody think before they speak/post anymore?
by Big Boob Lover on Jul 1, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Income + divorce costs.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 1, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I wouldn’t be handing that fight to Couture so quickly.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn
the official line is that confident Randy will win. I wouldn’t be so sure. He’s old and Nogueira should be much healthier than he was against Mir.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jul 1, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, they are both old and they will both retire next year. Whoever loses may retire after their fight.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 1, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nog is not retiring in his early thirties, despite your fervent wishes.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did You Not Read My Post
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/11/906243/aging-mma-big-nog-to-retire-next
Rodrigo ‘Minatauro’ Nogueira expects to retire next year and says he would like to end his career in Japan or Brazil – but first he wants to take another run at the UFC heavyweight title currently held by Brock Lesnar.
…
“I’m willing to fight here in Brazil, I was super excited to see Rogerio fight and see the affection of the fans, what we saw in [Jungle Fight] is priceless. My dream is to end my career with a fight in Japan and then the last one in Brazil”, he revealed.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 1, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the strangest part of this is that you actually wrote something about a UFC fighter.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strange? Not so.
I am a fan of all fighters, no matter what promotion they fight under. You think I stopped becoming a Machida, Shogun, Rampage, Anderson Silva, Nog, Wandy, etc fan just because they came over from Japan to the UFC? I don’t think so.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 1, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you stopped writing about them, in favor of promoting outside organizations. I didn’t say you weren’t a fan.
My comment was meant as a joke anyway. I know you still like the UFC and it’s fighters, I just don’t see you write about them very much.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, thats easy.
It’s usually because there is someone who usually writes about them already. The UFC stories tend to break out before I could write them, so I will chime in when I can. I usually let other posters handle those. I try to cover the things that most people aren’t even aware of, which may seem like I only write about other promotions.
Shine Promotions is having a good event down in Florida featuring the ATT camp and Art Of War is having Rolles Gracie fighting in their first card. Stories like that are pretty dope, but not many people cover them.
Hope that helps.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 1, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Art of War’s first card? Did you mean main card? Their next event with Rolles will be their 13th show.
"Because I rode in here on my fucking Thunderhorse and handled business."
by skeed on Jul 1, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their up coming main card, getting big press in China, yeah, all that good stuff.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 2, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you notice, he’s talking about him fighting in an organization other than the UFC.
by Captain7 on Jul 1, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to keep your reputation intact :-)
by Captain7 on Jul 1, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Randy shows up at the condition he was in during the Lesnar fight it is improbable that he loses.
by mmalogic on Jul 1, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point
People keep writing Couture off, but he’s yet to show signs of declining. In his last fight he was in great shape and took the fight to Brock until he was clipped with the same missile that broke Heath Herrings orbital bone.
Randy’s been knocked out before and by much smaller men. Nothing from his last fight indicate any signs of him slowing down. In fact, if he fights like that against even the Nogueira (a fighter who has shown wear and tear recently) who fought against Tim Sylvia, then I don’t see any way that he can lose.
by Captain7 on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Brock was spent in less than 2 rounds with Randy’s pressure… if Randy could have lasted for 3 rounds Brock would have been in big trouble.
by mmalogic on Jul 1, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
HRT for the win, yay for legal steroids! =D
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 2, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Brock didn’t look spent to me in that fight, he looked kinda bored and willing to let Randy fight his weight. You don’t donkey kong that many punches if you are spent.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 2, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it
But two undefeated top prospects against each other? Not sure I totally dig that.
Should be a great fight and (I guess) it will determine immediately who deserves a title shot.
Machida/Rua and Carwin/Velasquez in LA would be a hit.
Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.
by SSreporters on Jul 1, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Also possible, Carwin by KTFO.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m torn. I’m leaning towards another big Carwin KO, but Velasquez has the ability to outwrestle him for sure. A questionable chin can’t be fixed though. So tough to call.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Andrei Arlovski has a questionable chin. I think Cain Velasquez’s is fine.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea Velasquez took some HARD shots and kept fighting. To me that shows his chin is pretty good. I think its his striking defense and head movement that are questionable.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This^
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 1, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say there’s no questiona bout AA’s anymore. Cain’s is still up in the air a bit, hence “questionable”. Those were big shots that dropped him, but Carwin hits a lot harder than Kongo.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cains chin isn't questionable at all
Most guys would have been out cold from a couple of those shots, I’m starting to think the Carwin reputation is getting a little out of hand-Soon he’ll be the hardest punching human ever born, able to break through a foot of concrete with a single punch.
Doesn't anybody think before they speak/post anymore?
by Big Boob Lover on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For all that’s good about Kongo, he really doesn’t have one-punch KO power. And the shots he dropped Cain with weren’t monsters, they were short shots. Hence the questions. As for Carwin, it’s hard to argue with him KOing everyone he’s faced so far.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so another fight in LA. Is there gonna be anybody on the 103 card?
by Foxskinrug on Jul 1, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What other fights are there? So far I only know of four fighters locked in to 104.
L.A. is also the largest American media market where MMA is legalized so expect it to get some preferential treatment. Plus they owe it to us L.A. guys that get out to 3 vegas cards a year.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida vs. Shogun, Carwin vs. Velasquez on 104
Koscheck vs. Trigg on 103.
Generally the top 3 fights are the only ones that really matter in building a card. For all intents and purposes, the 104 card is almost complete, whereas the 103 card has nothing.
by Foxskinrug on Jul 1, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yeah they owe us L.A. guys!
I got to see Machida at the WFA King of the Streets event at the Forum, back before I really knew much about him. It’s gonna be great to see him dismantle Shogun at the Staples center. And now we might get Carwin / Velasquez as well?
Again, hell yeah!
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t know you were an L.A. guy? Where do you do your BJJ training?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was training out of KO MMA (under Sensei Ko Matsumoto) in Monterey Park, ’bout 15 minutes east of Downtown, but I broke my foot while going for a judo throw at the end of class (damn slippery mats!). I recovered about 3 months ago, but moved out to Hollwood, so I stopped training there.
Since then, I’ve just been working with a couple guys here and there and trying to work on my cardio (which is pathetic) and I’ve been contemplating where to train next. My buddy owns Legends gym in Hollywood and I could get decent pricing and great BJJ from Eddie Bravo, but I don’t plan on every being a pro MMArtist. I really was just training for self defense and for the fun of it, but I realized along the way that, if I ever have to defend myself on the street, MMA training can get me in some trouble (some MMA are bad for the streets). I think whats next for me is Krav Maga in Sherman Oaks. How ’bout you?
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*some MMA techniques are bad for the streets
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have actually toured legends and I have been rehabbing my knee in preparation of joining up with 10th planet (Eddie’s no-gi classes within Legends) or their satellite school in Burbank under Sensei Kim (since I work in Burbank it would be a lot easier to train while I wait out the post work traffic). I also heard that Eddie and Scott Epstein’s classes are more intense and the Burbank class is much more relaxed which is what I’d be looking for while easing my way back into athletic activity.
I feel you on the cardio thing. I have been totally out of action for almost four years now thanks to a torn ACL followed by law school followed by a major training setback (yet another torn ACL). I feel like I get winded anytime I start sprinting. I was considering Legends to help with the cardio since I heard the Muay Thai there is really good for that.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
10th planet is the good stuff. And training while you wait out traffic sounds perfect. Burbank sounds like a good choice. :)
My broken foot doesn’t sound like much in comparison to your ACL, I feel for you. A small suggestion : Stick with swimming and cycling for your cardio, because your knee is going to be strained enough with the jitz. Swimming will also help with your explosiveness.
If you end up at 104, we should meet up on the Staples balcony between fights and have a beer. I’ve already met Mike Rome, and it would be great to meet another fellow Elbowian….or is it Elbowite?
First one’s on me! ;)
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds good, I’ll take rounds two and three. Hope you drink fast.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only as fast as I have to. ;) Don’t want to get to faded though…I went to Affliction : Banned, and we were drinking ALL DAY. I don’t remember half the fights…I sure as hell remember watching Fedor crush Timmy though. Crowd. Went. Nuts.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats how my memories of Spider-Henderson in Colubus are. I got stung by a ton of Mickeys and ended up taking 84 pictures of the jumbotron.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 2, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That you in the picture w/ Lyota at a bar? That must have been a fun night!
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 2, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea that was after he beat Thiago. Good times.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You lucky bastards…104 is the day after my birthday, yet I am across the entire country from it =(
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 2, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Elbownian.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 2, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of think they should be babying them.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Jul 1, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Somebody’s got to fight the winner of Lesnar/Mir. It doesn’t look like the Nog/Randy winner is at the front of the line anymore.
Everyone want to apologize about bitching about that?
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Why force one of them to have a loss on their record prior to fighting for the belt?
Give them each a fight to hold them over, then give put Carwin in against Randy, and Cain in vs. Nog… That way if they each win then the UFC has 2 credible #1 contenders, vs. having to re-build one of the two up.
by Fedorable on Jul 1, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather see the winner of Randy/Nog get one more win and then challenge the winner of Lesnar/Carwin.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Jul 1, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally see your point, but i think the hw division is thin enough that whoever loses this fight (i.e. velasquez) could be back in title contention rather quickly.
might as well have them fight each other, than fight guys like herring or other middle of the road guys that could potentially spoil their build-up, with no up side.
by woooburn on Jul 1, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin takes this; two years from now, Velasquez takes it. Could be a blessing in disguise for Velasquez, as a bump down from this “contender” talk could let him build his skills further before an eventual run, while getting Carwin over big time as a legitimate threat.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 1, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very true – Cain’s got another ten years in this sport if he’s smart, whereas Carwin has maybe five. I’ll be rooting for Shane because of his shorter shelf life.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That and he is from your area.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 2, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i couldn’t agree more…maybe cain can improve his head movement in short order
by dugmouth on Jul 1, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is fucking stupid.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Elaborate please
Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.
by SSreporters on Jul 1, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you in philly? i like your quote....
by Nick Travaglini on Jul 2, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha no I'm a Seahawks fan living in Seattle
I’m just amazed at the Andy Reid situation there in Philly with the team and the fans.
Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.
by SSreporters on Jul 2, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would you have them fight? If they’ve already gone through good gatekeepers (and Gonzaga and Kongo are nothing if not that), then they need a challenge, and the other top four heavyweights in the division are booked (and dos Santos is fighting Justin McCully). Tell me who you’d rather them fight.
And props for bringing the cat back.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain desperately needs more time to develop. He needs fights where he can try out new things and experiment, expand his game, and refine the new stuff he’s been learning in the gym. To win this fight, he’ll have to fight exclusively to his strengths, i.e. wrestling, which is to say, do absolutely zero developing. Cain is one of the best prospects in the sport (nevermind the absolutely weakest division internationally) and he’s getting no time to actualize that potential.
And before anybody goes crazy, I know he was supposed to fight Herring before Kongo and I think that would have been the best matchup for him (though I’m starting to suspect that Herring is gonna try to get out of his contract and go back to Japan, I digress).
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Herring will at least stick around for the Texas show – I don’t know who the hell he fights if this is true. But if Cain fights Herring in the fall, do you bench Shane or just give him the title shot? There won’t be enough time for him to fight the Randy/Nog winner.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe try to pick up Tim Sylvia or Andrei Arlovski for him.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeesh. That’s about the only good option other than this fight.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Monson would be another option.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For either guy.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You won't be seeing Heath Herring at the Dallas UFC PPV
Highly unlikely he fights in 2009.
What the fuck is a "robster craw"?
by Gunslinger20 on Jul 1, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And props for bringing the cat back.
Everybody seemed to prefer it. I thought iiowyn was gonna blow a gasket. :-)
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kitteh!
You haz a flavor agin!
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 1, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are actual medical reasons for that, in my head, rundownloser = kitten, every time I saw your other avatar, it was just wrong and bugged the hell out of me =X
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 2, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin by massive mits
Carwin is going to absolutely murder him with his power and strength. If Cain doesn’t pick up some head movement and let’s Carwin tap his chin, it’s not gonna be a flash knockout—it’s gonna be a fight ender.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Jul 1, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who doesn’t pick Carwin is insane.
by FlyByKnight on Jul 1, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can we get back to reality here
Carwin has only beaten one above average fighter, (Please don’t include Wellisch) and he does have a lot of potential, He hits like a train, and has a good wrestling background, But his record is padded with bums, and he’s no more accomplished at wrestling than Cain-so I doubt it’s gonna be a one punch fight.
Doesn't anybody think before they speak/post anymore?
by Big Boob Lover on Jul 1, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
100% agree with your avatar
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If both Carwin and Cain have similar levels of wrestling then the fight will take place on the feet. If you’re wondering how that will go then let me show you some math.
Cain = Wrestling + Bad Defense
Carwin = Wrestling + Sledgehammers on arms
Cain VS Carwin
Wrestling + Bad Defense VS Wrestling + Sledgehammers on arms
Wrestling + Bad Defense VS Wrestling + Sledgehammers on arms
Bad Defense VS Sledgehammers on arms
= Cain gets KTFO’d
by Captain7 on Jul 1, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
MMA Math...
“60% of the time it works, every time.”
[cheesy grin]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 1, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank yew, Thank yew
Nice anchorman quote by the way…top notch movie.
by Captain7 on Jul 2, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice! And Rec’d.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 1, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cain takes this. Carwin’s striking defense is subpar and his wrestling isn’t as good.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this. But Cain’s striking defense is just as subpar.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your reference point is the Kongo fight, I would temper your sentiment by reminding you that Kongo is a very good kickboxer. Whereas the points of reference for Carwin are Neil Wain and Gabriel Gonzaga, neither of which should be known for their striking.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain didn’t look stellar against Stojnic either when it came to defense, and I think we can agree that Stojnic is no world-beater.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Touche, but I would contend that he did look better.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask Crocop and Kevin Jordan about Gonzagas Striking
by Captain7 on Jul 1, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not going to ask Kevin Jordan anything because he isn’t relevant and Cro Cop was dizzy from getting absolutely mugged on the ground.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 2, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you watch the Kongo fight?
Cain got rocked by Kongo’s punches on multiple occasions and immediately went to the ground to wrestle with someone who sucks at wrestling.
Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.
by SSreporters on Jul 1, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
If Cain takes any shots similar from Carwin, like the ones he was taking on the chin from Kongo, he will be kO’d in the first
by Fedorable on Jul 1, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what separates Carwin from Kongo
Is that Carwin has a deep wrestling background. If he can catch Velasquez he has a far better shot on the ground than Kongo if Cain goes for the immediate takedown attempt.
I don’t know why, but I still see Velazquez as a little raw and lacking punching power. His stand-up is underdeveloped while Carwin to me is a lot more polished.
I’m going with Carwin TKO 1
Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.
by SSreporters on Jul 1, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know why, but I still see Velazquez as a little raw and lacking punching power. His stand-up is underdeveloped while Carwin to me is a lot more polished.
Probably something to do with the difference in age and experience – Carwin is both older and has twice as many fights as Velasquez. Just guessing.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 1, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if I’d call any technical aspect of Carwin’s game polished.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. His striking is as raw as Cain’s, he’s just got mad power. He holds his chin high, drops his hands a lot…all the makings of a guy that could eat some big shots.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin got clocked and taken down by Gonzaga.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true. GG broke Carwin’s nose. Carwin’s striking and defense are definitely underdeveloped, but his chin and hands have protected him so far.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. As a side note, by far the most impressive thing Carwin did in the Gonzaga fight was get up again.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was amazing
I thought the fight was over when Gonzaga took him down. Carwin is a beast.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. Walking through that monster Gonzaga shot amazed me too.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 1, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, Carwin also KO’d Gonzoga with one or 2 shots…Cain couldn’t TKO Denis Stojnić with 100 shots…
I think that they both have weak striking defense, but Carwin has much more power, and will be able to score a KO or TKO much easier
by Fedorable on Jul 1, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Additionally, Cain has outstanding cardio. If he can get Carwin down and grind him like he did against Kongo, I don’t think Carwin’s cardio will hold up longer than a round and a half. Two max.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since Carwin has never been past the first round, guesses as to his gas tank are mere conjecture. He could have a motor like Lesnar for all we know.
Although Carwin has said himself that in camp he gets better in the later rounds of sparring, for what it’s worth
by missmanners on Jul 1, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone that trains and lives in Colorado is going to have decent cardio at sea level. It’s a fact. On the other hand, I’ve never heard a fighter say ‘I hope this ends early, because I gas hard when I train’.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did say for what it’s worth.
Oh, Mir by cranekick :)
by missmanners on Jul 1, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll readily admit that it’s an assumption based almost solely on his build.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SWEET! As a Velasquez fan I’m excited about him fighting here in L.A. (cause I’ll be at UFC 104) but to be honest I’m a little worried… Carwin has got some HEAVY hands and well we all saw the Kongo/ Cain fight. Either way CAIN will pull this off! GO CAIN!
Say “go cain” fast. Sounds like cocaine hehe
by poundnground on Jul 1, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the whole face-to-face photo cropping
needs to stop. it takes away from the actual weigh ins IMO.
by I Can't Feel My Face on Jul 1, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You can’t be serious. Takes away from the weigh ins? Takes what away from them? The chance to see two big dudes standing next to each other?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 1, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m actually a big fan of them.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jul 1, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why isn't there an option to anti-rec?
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 1, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
This is not good for Cain… Astonished his camp agreed.
Cains wrestling will not be that much of an advantage and Carwin hits like a mutherfucker.
In contrast Cain doesn’t have devastating power so if the lines are close bet the house on carwin.
by mmalogic on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Cain can handle a loss at this point in his career – then people won’t shout ‘protection’ when he gets a few much-deserved cans.
by subo on Jul 1, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly my thoughts.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 1, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with…subo? Weird! lol
Cain’s younger, has less fights and wouldn’t get thrown down the totem pole too far if he loses. Kinda like a Fitch.
I actually think Cain would benefit from a loss where his defense gets exposed. Unless, he’s feverishly working on it as we speak and comes out and outwrestles (which is very plausible) and outboxes Carwin.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This means Lesnar/Mir will be sitting out for a long time.
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
by Ubernoober on Jul 1, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nah it means they'll be getting
the winner of Couture vs Nogueira
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by Kid Nate on Jul 1, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awwwwwwee shit yeah baby!!! God I really hope Lesnar wins now! Cane or Shane vs Lesnar would be Epic!!! DO WANT!!!!
I think Carwin has to have the edge right now. He has more experience and his power is off the charts. If Cane can avoid taking huge shots he has a great chance though.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about the speed difference between carwin and kongo? I know carwin hits like a truck, but he is no where as fast as kongo….maybe cain will have an easier time dodging or dealing with carwin’s strikes.
by soadtrails on Jul 1, 2009 9:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The way I see it is that if Cain can’t beat Carwin he most definately can’t beat Lesnar. You’re right though, Kongos striking is much quicker and precise than Carwins AND Lesnars.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 1, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin only needed an arm punch to level Gonzy, which can be thrown a hell of a lot faster than proper power punches. Don’t see punch speed being an issue here, as Cain will definately want to take this to the ground, meaning he will get close enough for Shane to throw short arm punches.
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 2, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True that…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people... give him his bread."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 2, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess what, Cain Velasquez is going to get destroyed.
by goodbones on Jul 1, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Guess what else
I knew that already
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 2, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how
everyone here is acting like Carwin is some kind of K-1 level striker now. Sure, he has a ton of power in his hands, but this is the same guy who was getting frustrated standing by Neil Wain. And who got rocked hard by Gonzaga, before he landed the punch that put Gabe out.
I actually think that their skills are about equal at this point, but I think Shane’s size will be the difference maker. Cain is a bit flabby at 240, and Carwin has 6-pack abs (with visible seratus muscles) at 260.
I envision Carwin by decision (if his gas tank is decent), but I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished Velasquez. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Velasquez took a decision.
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'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 1, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Elliot, that was very insightful.
by goodbones on Jul 1, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frustrated by Wain? Didn’t he TKO him in the second minute of the fight?
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by Richard Wade on Jul 2, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
1:31 of the first round to be exact
But that first minute and a half was very frustrating.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 2, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Carwin by KO because Velasquez is garbage. And also because Carwin is some kind of K-1 level striker now.
by goodbones on Jul 1, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The hate is strong with this one…
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
by Ubernoober on Jul 2, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It boggles my mind
that anyone may be questioning Cain’s chin at this point- right off the bat in the Kongo fight, he took TWO massive bombs right on the chin-one after another. The dude has a VERY GOOD chin, and that is hardly a question. I see Cain taking this fight. and have very little reason as to why I feel so.
Both got badly rocked in the first minutes (if not seconds) of their last bouts, and although Carwin responded with a quick KO, Velasquez responded with 14 minutes of complete and utter domination on the ground.
This fight is a coin flip. Two dominant wrestlers that have shown little standup technique, besides hitting hard.
by SMC on Jul 2, 2009 1:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Both got badly rocked in the first minutes (if not seconds) of their last bouts, and although Carwin responded with a quick KO, Velasquez responded with 14 minutes of complete and utter domination on the ground.
Correction, he responded with 12 minutes of complete and utter domination on the ground and 2 minutes of getting worked on the feet.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 2, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain was almost out on his feet
If Kongo had even the semblance of a wrestling/gorund game, the fight would have been over. Carwin had a BJJ world champ on him in half guard after he was rocked, and got back up.
If Carwin rocks Cain, expect a GnP murder in the octagon to follow shortly after.
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 2, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s super impressive. If a guy like Gonzaga can’t hold Carwin down, I don’t see Cain having a chance. From my experience, a wrestler (although natural from being on top) doesn’t develop the type of top control that is needed in MMA. A BJJ guy does.
by Captain7 on Jul 2, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…But maybe that could just be my brown pride talking.
by SMC on Jul 2, 2009 1:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The shots from Kongo weren’t really bombs, they were straight, compact crosses. Beautiful punches, but not really heavy power shots. I personally thought he went down a little too easy from them, but he did a great job recovering, and then dominating.
But only because Kongo sucked sooo bad on the ground! I was watching that fight alone, and even then I remember myself yelling at the screen. Alot. And I don’t even like Kongo. It was just sad watching someone have a gimme win and just blow it like that!
Cain did a great job coming back in that fight. He did what he had to do, he grinded out that win, and he deserves full credit for it. But the way he fell from those punches tells me if Carwin lands one of the same shots Kongo did, Cain will be sleeping. That, and he couldn’t finish Kongo on the ground. And Kongo suuucked on the ground.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 2, 2009 2:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
I should have read through the whole thread before replying above, could have saved time and just rec’d your post
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 2, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn’t just that he was getting hit, it’s that the timing was perfect. Kongo nailed Velasquez while Cain was coming in on him. Velasquez was basically impaling himself on Kongo’s fists. That’s smart, quick punching – a credit to Kongo’s striking – and bad defence by Velasquez, but the result was that the punches were not only landing, they were landing much harder than they otherwise might have.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 2, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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