The UFC Should Sign Nick Diaz and Jake Shields When They Become Available
by Michael Rome on Jun 7, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
108 comments
Lots of people rightly wonder what happens to the welterweight division in the UFC if Georges St. Pierre beats Thiago Alves. Alves winning would open things up, and he has a good chance, but if GSP wins the next contender is an open question. Mike Swick could be a default contender, and Martin Kampmann is a few wins away, but unless the UFC brings in new talent they will have an Anderson Silva-in-2008 situation all over again.
Nick Diaz would be a boon to the UFC's welterweight division. His camp says he wants to fight at 170 from here on out, and it's clear to me that he is far better than he ever was when he was in the UFC. Fights like Diaz-Hughes and Diaz-Serra would be promotional gold mines, and a potential fight with GSP would probably do huge money if Diaz won a few in a row. From the pure sport perspective, fights with Alves and Fitch would be very interesting as well. He's finally hit his stride after a rough patch, and I'd really like to see him against some elite talent.
Jake Shields also earned a shot at GSP's title with his performance last night. Say what you will about Lawler's performance, Jake pulled out a great win over a good middleweight. He found himself in a nightmare position for a grappler, unable to get a hard-hitting opponent down. Instead of folding, he found a way to win, and he deserves a lot of credit for it. His kickboxing is still poor, he stands straight up and throws one shot at a time from way outside, but it worked last night. I think St. Pierre would throttle him, but he has earned a chance to prove the doubters wrong.
From Strikeforce's perspective, the natural fights to promote are Diaz vs. Cung Le and Shields vs. Riggs. Shields is obviously planning on leaving, so putting him in with Cung Le makes no sense. Diaz looks locked in, and a fight with Cung Le should be easy to promote.
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Plus it would be great to see GSP beat Diaz’s face into a bloody pulp.
by ufc4 on Jun 7, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
RE: Cung Le
Is there anything to hint that Le is actually interested in fighting anytime this year? Sure it would be easy to promote but the guy isn’t getting any younger and he hasn’t fought in a while.
by ufc4 on Jun 7, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s already said he’s too busy for a fight this year. Cross him off your list of active fighters.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 8, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shields is planning on leaving? why did he sign to strikeforce a couple months ago? hes waiting to get a big offer and its never gonna show up. well be talking about this until hes about 35 or 36.
as for le, they’re talking about an interim title because he isnt fighting. everyone out there needs to remember that homes is like nearing 40. he has basically said in every interview since shamrock that hed rather do movies.
by nigelzackit on Jun 7, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t sign, his contract just came over from the Elite acquisition.
by ufc4 on Jun 7, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t sign. In fact, he was the one who almost tried to fight it in court. He’s finishing out his elite contract and then leaving.
by Michael Rome on Jun 7, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who said that?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 7, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hes Leaving
People were pretty sure he was going to leave last time but he signed an extension with them because they had the better offer. With fighting on Showtime and possibly CBS in the future, he could stick around at MW and be a huge star for Strikeforce. He could always go to the UFC later.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 7, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could...but won't...
he’s made it pretty damn clear that he isn’t sticking around. He wants the UFC
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He did that last time his contract was expiring and ended up signing an extension with Elite XC. Then he turned around and tried to claim he really didn’t want to go to the UFC.
by ilostmydog on Jun 7, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could be a huge star in Strikeforce
And still make less than he would as a mid-tier UFC fighter.
by ufc4 on Jun 7, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im pretty sure shields is making a lot more than clay guida or joe stevenson right now.
by nigelzackit on Jun 8, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do u have any idea how much those guys make from sponsorships?
by ufc4 on Jun 8, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone pretends they know what the rates are between the ufc and strikeforce. how many people you see slinging numbers? instead, i see a lot of unsupported claims. i dont trust mmalogic or whatever other poster demands we take his word for it that shields makes 1/2 as much for his condomdepot patch over someone elses unless they got some quotes to back it with.
by nigelzackit on Jun 8, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sponsors go by how many people are watching, it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that they pay more to advertise where more eyes will see the advertising.
As far as straight pay goes, we do know what Jake Shields was getting from EliteXC and he’s fighting on that same contract for Strikeforce.
EliteXC Heat, Jake Shields $50,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
EliteXC unfinished business, Jake Shields: $45,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
UFC 94, Clay Guida $40,000 ($20,000 win bonus)
UFC 86, Joe Stevenson $60,000 ($30,000 win bonus)
UFC 91, Joe Stevenson: $35,000 (no win bonus because he lost)
So actually you are clearly wrong, Jake Shields isn’t really earning more than Clay Quida or Joe Stevenson. Hell Joe Stevenson’s UFC 95 fight of the night bonus alone was 40k. Jake Shields as a star outside of the UFC makes about as much as mid-tier Clay Quida and less than Joe Stevenson. There are your numbers to “back it up with”.
by who me on Jun 8, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sponsors go by how many people are watching, it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that they pay more to advertise where more eyes will see the advertising.
Exactly, and you can figure those numbers out pretty easily. Look at Showtime’s viewing numbers vs. the number of people buying UFC PPV’s, then take into account the fact that you might have 4 or 5 people pitching in to buy the PPV plus however many more at bars and it’s pretty clear that UFC has at least 5 times the viewing audience, maybe as much as 10 times.
by ufc4 on Jun 8, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, now if CBS was actually in play here then it might be different but they aren’t.
by who me on Jun 8, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see Jake Shields going to the UFC but I’ve got a feeling Nick Diaz stays put for a while. Shields seems to be concerned about the top of the 170lb division and that means that eventually he will have to head for the UFC but this is Nick Diaz’s chance to become the biggest fish in a smaller pond and really carve out a name for himself in Strikeforce, not to mention it leaves him open to fight in Japan too. Nick doesn’t seem to mind moving up or down for these big money fights, besides if both guys stay in the same organization eventually it will come down to the two of them and they won’t do that.
by who me on Jun 7, 2009 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That would make sense.
We have already seen Diaz in the UFC. And we have already seen him lose to Joe Riggs, and lose to guys who are now Lightweights in Sanchez & Sherk. Not to mention he has lost to Lightweight Noons. It’s very apparant that his style has limitations against the upper level fighters, and it would only make sense for him to stay in Strikeforce and be a star there, compared to going back to the UFC, being a .500 fighter, and being gone after 4 or 5 fights.
With Jake Shields, at this point in his career, it can’t be about the money. It has to be about him proving himself. He has never fought on the big show, and eventually he needs to. Not to mention that if he is successful in the UFC, he can potentially make much much much more money then if he were a champion in Strikeforce.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 7, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“His camp says he wants to fight at 170 from here on out, and it’s clear to me that he is far better than he ever was when he was in the UFC.”
Nick Diaz’s problem in the UFC was his complete lack of wrestling and that still hasn’t changed. I don’t know where you think he has shown improvement.
by dumbwhiteguy on Jun 7, 2009 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No Nick’s problem was the biased scoring criteria that made him lose shit decisions. That’s the reason you Diaz so willing to bang and so enamored with Japan. Sub attempts mean nothing in America apparently which is absurd.
And he has improved his wrestling.
by gunranger on Jun 7, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sub attempts that go nowhere shouldn’t be counted more than they are.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 7, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They are attempting to finish the fight which means more than stalling. Even if we were to put this into the unified rules category sub attempts fall under:
Aggression/offense
effective grappling
control
But with converted boxing judges they don’t see that
by gunranger on Jun 7, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A failed sub attempt is effective grappling?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 7, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes because you are putting your opponent in a precarious situation.
by gunranger on Jun 7, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not always...
you’re acting like Diaz was getting deep subs in. But just throwing your legs up in an attempt to catch something does not put your opponent in a precarious situation.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I much prefer the philosophy of using submission attempts to improve position.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 7, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am more active going for subs (offense) and you are just defending, I am winning. Guard is a neutral position to begin with. The fight that illustrates this the best is rd2 vs Riggs. Riggs did nothing but throw one elbow while Nick transitioned from a triangle to a kneebar to heel hook to arm bar and all Riggs did was defend.
by gunranger on Jun 7, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If guard were neutral why would so many fighters bother defending takedowns?
by bigweeze on Jun 8, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Submission attempts that aren’t deep are really no better than punches that don’t land. I really don’t understand arguments to the contrary.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 8, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
aggreed.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Jun 7, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I personally don’t feel that Shields earned a shot at GSP’s title after beating Lawler. I DO feel that Shields should be fighting upper echelon Welterweights in the UFC though and then a title shot after a convincing win, but I feel that giving a title shot to Shields after beating Robbie Lawler is a bit of a stretch. I would personally like to see Dustin Hazelett vs Jake Shields because both are BJJ black belts.
by chrisbboy82 on Jun 7, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also it is important to note that Shields is not that good and would get eaten up by the UFC WW division. The reason he did well last night is that Robbie Lawler really is not good at all. I would pick Gono over Shields in a heartbeat.
by dumbwhiteguy on Jun 7, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shields has to go the UFC if he wants to fight real fighters. He could dick around and fight the Baroni’s of the world but I don’t see that on his horizon.
Diaz should do w.e the hell he wants. In Strikeforce he’s a guaranteed main draw. In the UFC, probably not so, especially if he loses to the top (GSP, Alves, Fitch, Kos, etc.) Then he’s just another ordinary WW.
With LW & HW there is at least some decent competition outside the UFC but 170-205 is monopoly central.
by Sokonojudo on Jun 7, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Diaz is doing well.. but he would have any chance against a good striker? ..he showboats way too much and will definately end up getting caught, if he keeps it up.
by grein on Jun 7, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shamrock and Smith have comparable striking with all but the top two UFC welterweights.
by George Lucas on Jun 7, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take...
Kampmann, Davis, Johnson, Lytle over them as strikers. And that’s just off the top of my head
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously not including GSP and Alves
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add Condit to that list.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 7, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And probably Serra...
since he has good striking that also has power.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Chris Wilson, Marcus Davis, Dan Hardy, and (as much as it pains me) Mike Swick.
Hell, outside of his positively dreadful chin, Jonathon Goulet is probably a better striker.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 7, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparable does not mean what you think it means.
by George Lucas on Jun 7, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anybody on that list is comparable to Shamrock or Smith.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 7, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
com·pa·ra·ble: Similar or equivalent.
Scott Smith showed himself to be a comparible striker to Pete Sell in the UFC. Sure Scott has great KO power but a lot of guys in the WW division are better strikers than that. He’s a very exciting fighter with a ton of heart but there is more to striking than just throwing hard shots. As for Frank Shamrock it’s been a long time since he fought enough top guys to draw a lot of comparisons off of for that, since he came back in 2006 he hasn’t shown me much striking wise.
by who me on Jun 7, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm saying these guys are better...
so in a COMPARISON they are not near equal. They are better.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shields did not earn a shot at GSP with his win last night.
Shields-GSP could be an interesting fight, but Shields hasn’t fought (and beaten) the murderers row that is the UFC WW division. Let’s see him against Fitch, Alves, Swick, Kampman, Hughes, Condit (rematch), etc. Maybe he can beat all of those guys. Maybe not. Shields going directly to GSP would only be because GSP had beaten everyone else, and Shields hadn’t competed against the UFC WWs yet.
by Hardcharger on Jun 7, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shields has a better resume than all the UFC’s top WW besides Alves and GSP. Hughes is done and Kos just get embarrassed by a no name. Murderer’s row is laughable. Fitch didn’t go through some murderer’s row to fight GSP. His best wins were a split to Diego, Alves (when he was a nobody) and Larson
by gunranger on Jun 7, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would still need 1 or two UFC wins before getting a title shot.
He has only beaten one Top 10 Welterweight at this point. He would at least need another big win before getting that shot.
I love it how big fish in a small pond get treated like gold.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 7, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s beaten two top 5 middleweights and three top 15 welterweights with no losses in 5 years.
The only UFC welterweights with a comparable record right now are GSP (4-1 against top 15 welterweights) and Alves (3-1 against top 10 welterweights).
Arguing that Shields isn’t qualifed for a UFC title shot is pure distilled ignorance.
by George Lucas on Jun 7, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think Lawler is a top 5 anything you might be retarded.
by dumbwhiteguy on Jun 7, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me and anyone who ranks fighters i guess
by George Lucas on Jun 7, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You counting the Okami win? Have you seen the fight? That fight is always a great indicator if people are just Fight Findering the posts or have actually watched the fights. Okami won the fight, and anybody who has seen that fight knows it.
Also, I like how you changed the criteria. Beating 3 top 15 guys? That’s another way of saying he beat 1 guy in the Top 10, and 2 guys outside of the Top 10.
He would still need another big win to earn his shot.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 7, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okami won that fight like 10 times over
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okami won the 3rd round.. and if it was Japanese scoring, okami would of won that fight… but either way, that was a close fight, and neither fighter dominated each other.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Jun 7, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okami lost the fight 2 rounds to 1 on the scorecards and in reality.
The criteria didn’t change for anyone. Alves, GSP and Shields all have comparable records and should be considered elite welterweights. My post is directed to the people who don’t think Shields has earned his place near the top.
by George Lucas on Jun 7, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he doesn’t. He hasn’t faced any Top 10 WWs recently. His win over Condit was ages ago. Please don’t try to claim the Okami fight. Beating Lawler is great, but Lawler is like Arlovski – becoming supremely overrated immediately after leaving the UFC and not defeating top fighters at his weight.
If Shields wants to step up and face top WW competition, good for him. But he’s not earned a title shot, and wouldn’t beat the top UFC WWs (not even including the champ GSP).
by Hardcharger on Jun 8, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few problems with the original article:
1. Nick Diaz would likely lose to a top contender before even getting a title shot. And the UFC would not put him directly into a title fight. So that idea is a bust.
2. Same could happen to Jake Shields
3. I have a feeling that they might like being big fish in a small pond.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 7, 2009 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d put Diaz against Riggs and Le against Shields, personally. Shields leaving Strikeforce doesn’t mean much for a fight against Cung Le, actor.
by George Lucas on Jun 7, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It works too, but I think the bad guy/good guy dynamic of Diaz/Le works better, and then you could make Diaz a champion instead of handing your belt to a guy on his way out.
by Michael Rome on Jun 7, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why all the Diaz hate?
Kids been on a roll and DESTROYING people since he shaved his skull.
by Riney on Jun 7, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stating the reason might come across as fighter bashing.
But I’d define it as:
1. His attitude
2. Drug use
3. His attitude
by Razreshat on Jun 8, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drug use doesn't bother me at all...
attitude? Yes very much so
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diaz is a good fighter, but since he comes across as a no class thug, I will call him the way I see him.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 8, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another “UFC should sign X” post. If I had a dollar for every one of these Ive read.
Surely, the UFC should attempt to sign every highly ranked fighter they havent signed, shouldnt they?
by GeeDub on Jun 7, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well,I would say most, there are exceptions to every rule. If Arlovski wants to be the second or third highest paid guy in the division do they really want him back? If Cheetoh Ortiz wants a half a mil per fight plus a PPV cut do they need him? I’m not saying they shouldn’t try to sign them, just don’t go out of your way to grossly overpay guys who aren’t a threat for the title.
Oh, and offer Fedor a 25% stake in Zuffa and ten percent of every PPV.
by ufc4 on Jun 8, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another “I know what content your site should be running” comment. If I had a dollar for every one of these I’ve read.
Surely, you can run a moe successful site than BE, can’t you?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 8, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*more
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 8, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moe successful?
I would say Moe’s Tavern is pretty successful, Barney and Homer spend enough by themselves to turn a profit.
by ufc4 on Jun 8, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
there’s nothing worse than typing up a sassy response, hitting post and then going “…god dammit!”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 8, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not quite sure how you interpret my criticism of 1 post as a criticism of the entire site. And no, obviously I have neither the means nor the committment to run a site even half as good as BE. Very curious response Brent.
by GeeDub on Jun 8, 2009 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most annoying comment...
that our writers can read is something like “ugh…god…why did you write this?”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 8, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was met with the same “Why did you write this” reponse with added mockery and attempted humiliation with my very first post on this site. If I put on a target on my back by making a post to be judged by the BE community, surely others do the same?
“UFC should sign X” is less meaningful a discussion and has been done to death more than the “Who is the best p4p fighter” threads on Sherdog. Does anyone dispute that the UFC should endeavour to sign all the good fighters, including Diaz, Fedor, Aoki, Shields, Alvarez……..etc. The list is endless. All the promotions should try to sign the best fighters.
As you felt compelled to criticise my post, I felt compelled to criticise the initial thread. My apologies if I have trodden on any toes, but I just comment honestly on whats presented.
by GeeDub on Jun 8, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't anyone want to see
Diaz fight Lawler?
by rainmaker6 on Jun 7, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why
You think Lawler would get subbed by Diaz. I’m more interested to see if Lawler can solve Nick Diaz’s weird pitter patter boxing style.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 8, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Doesn’t anyone think after watching strikeforce that the standard of fighters in far lower than the UFC. I really don’t see Jake Shields or Robbie Lawler ranking in the top 5 in either weight division.
Lawler is a slightly better version of Draw McFedries. Jake Shields has 100% terrible striking. I think he’d get destroyed by Fitch or Koscheck and probably Swick as well.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 7, 2009 9:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about him?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 8, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what does that have to do with rainmaker6’s comment?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 8, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I was just kidding. I wonder if he replied to the wrong comment or something.
by ufc4 on Jun 8, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 8, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CBS
I believe this thread greatly discounts the value of CBS exposure, and the ability of Coker/Strikeforce to effectively promote. This thread almost presumes that the UFC will be the only outlet for exposure—not a good assumption in my opinion.
by Rob Maysey on Jun 8, 2009 4:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What CBS?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 8, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The promotion throughout the midwest was lacking...
and there is no CBS deal or anything in place.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 8, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have to say that the reason the thread is “greatly discounting the value of CBS” is because there is no CBS shows at this point in time and no actual talk about there being a CBS show in the foreseeable future. Lets face facts CBS had three shows and the one without Kimbo tanked, Strikeforce doesn’t have anyone that would put them over the top for a CBS show and even Carano vs Cyborg is scheduled for Showtime already, Strikeforce just doesn’t have a viable network roster at this point in time.
by who me on Jun 8, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to be contrarian, but did everybody else watch different fights than me? Nick Diaz beat a UFC washout with sloppy boxing, and Shields beat a different UFC washout with sloppy jiu-jitsu. What have these guys done to earn a ticket to the big show?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nick = asshole + brothers in the UFC angle
Shields = hasn’t faced elite level competition but has shredded the minor leagues, needs to be tested by the best in the world
by subo on Jun 8, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying that every WW in the UFC is better than these two? Because that seems to be what you’re implying.
by ufc4 on Jun 8, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that Luke’s point that these guys should be signed to the UFC on the basis of their recent fights is incorrect. These weren’t wins that mean anything in terms of the UFC. Beating Lawler and Smith doesn’t mean you deserve to be in the UFC. It means you beat somebody who DOESN’T deserve to be there.
I will say that more than half of the middleweights in the UFC are better than Lawler or Smith. Agree?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 9, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shields has accomplished pretty much everything he can outside of the UFC and it’d be fun to see him against top competition.
As for Diaz, I think you meant to write, “UFC washout Nick Diaz beat a UFC washout with sloppy boxing…”
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 8, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are both statements I can agree with. I’d especially like to see Shields face some stiffer competition. But beating Lawler? What does that mean? He was beaten by “UFC washout Nick Diaz” back in his prime. :-)
I’m just hoping that this helps correct the mistake that is listing Robbie in the top 10 middleweights that I complain about just about every time the meta-rankings come out. How many welterweights have to beat him before they move him off the list?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 9, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully this loss drops out of the top 10. I’ll be surprised if it happens right away, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jun 9, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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