10 Quick Thoughts on Strikeforce: Lawler vs. Shields
by MMAEruption on Jun 7, 2009 12:51 AM EDT
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PrintJust got done watching Strikeforce, and I thought I'd put down the first 10 thoughts/questions/ideas that popped into my head tonight. Overall, the fights were entertaining but the production came off as amateurish and tacky.
Okay, here we go!
1) Gus Johnson needs to go. He reminds me of myself when I was 18 years old - ready to kill myself because I couldn't stand my job. I'd rather have Bill Goldberg back for the pure insansity. Gus doesn't seem to be all that interested in MMA as he probably dreams of working Monday Night Football. Can they not find an actual MMA fan and supply media training?
2) Strikeforce needs more/better cameras on the action. There were some truly awful camera angles in there that were incredibly distracting - almost as bad as the BJ Penn/Rodrigo Gracie fight at Rumble on the Rock when the cameraguy decided to follow the fight in the crowd instead of the one in the cage.
3) What the f*ck is a Bar Arm Choke?
4) Nick Diaz is truly the top P4P jackass in the sport. He dominated his fight, but crapping all over Scott Smith's camp crossed a line that I don't think has ever been crossed before. So I guess I'm an even bigger Nick Diaz fan today than I was yesterday.
5) Gina/Cyborg is coming, but at what weight? Will one/both of them fail to make weight for the biggest fight in the history of women's MMA?
6) I feel really bad for Andrei Arlovski. He really needed an impressive win to get his career going, and getting KO'd twice in a row won't do much for his fledgling boxing career. And the stoppage was 100% on the money.
7) Nick Diaz vs. Joe Riggs seems like an awfully good idea to me. They have some of the baddest blood in the history of MMA.
8) Strikeforce needs some new middleweights. Two of their top guys were finished by two fighters coming UP in weight to fight them, and champion Cung Le is out shooting movies. Jason McDonald might be interested...
9) Jake Shields needs to finish out his contract and come to the UFC. There is no competition for him in Strikeforce, and it's time for him to step into the cage with the UFC's top welterweights.
10) Fire Gus Johnson. NOW!
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1. Randleman has been done for a long time now please never put him on the main card ever again.
2. Whitehead is average at best.
3. Baroni is also washed up and also needs to stop being in main cards.
4. Riggs will be the perfect stepping stone for Diaz on his way to becoming WW champion for Strikeforce.
5. Smith is an exciting but medicore fighter, Strikeforce needs to know that and stop trying to make him out to be better than he really is.
6. Diaz belongs at WW, hopefully after this fight he’ll stop all the going up and down in weights and focus on building himself up as a top fighter at 170.
7. AA getting KTFO couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, i’ve beyond had it with all of these guys who are more interested in money, fame or boxing than MMA.
8. Welcome to the big league Rogers, next stop Overeem and the Strikeforce HW title.
9. Robbie you continue to be a one trick pone that was a sad performance.
10. Shields you need real competition and the only other guy who can challange you is Nick Diaz so either fight him or come to the UFC enough of the minor leagues Jake.
LOL
At all the negativity…they have more than enough at MW.
MW:
Cung Le
Robbie Lawler
Jake Shields
Jorge Santiago
Kazuo Misaki
Mayhem Miller
Nick Diaz
Frank Shamrock
Benji Radach
Scott Smith
Joey Villasenor
Cyborg Santos
Eric Lawson
Luke Rockhold
Cory Devela
well...
Le is too busy bein a movie star
Shields and Diaz are Welterweights
Jorge Santiago hasn’t fought for SF since 2007, and I’m guessing is still fighting for Sengoku.
Misaki only came over on loan from Sengoku.
Miller is fighting for DREAM.
and everyone else really poses no threat to the top IMO.
http://www.mma-collective.com/
Mayhem is with Strikeforce
Santiago is fighting for Affliction soon, so whats your point about him being in Sengoku?
Shields will be staying at MW while Diaz will be going back to WW
Misaki still has a fight left in his SF contract
Villasenor and Cyborg are fighting soon to get another contender going.
Happy
=)
Shields will be staying at MW while Diaz will be going back to WW
Not entirely accurate. Both Shields and Diaz mentioned at the press conference that they’re willing to move between 170 and 185 to fight top competition. Of course for Shields, there aren’t many options.
Since when is Mayhem with strikeforce? And even if is signed/does sign with SF, he’s a bit preoccupied with DREAM and the MW title there. I don’t see him taking any fights until his rematch with Jacare, and if he wins I REALLY doubt we’ll see him stateside anytime soon.
Santiago, the point is he’s been fighting for Sengoku and not Strikeforce for a long while now. Could he come back? Of course, but being the MW champ, WVR is probably keeping better paid than SF can/will (Affliction is bleeding money, so I’m just ignoring that fight as any indication of anything besides an opportunity to get paid.)
Shields is only staying at MW bc there is no one to fight at WW (aside from Diaz, and 2 people a division does not make).
I had no clue Misaki signed a multi-fight contract, so thats cool.
Villasenor and Cyborg fall into my “no threat” category.
All this is ofc my own opinion/guesswork. I hope SF finds a way to keep their MW division interesting.
And I hope they build a fuckin WW division and get a belt on somebody or else Shields really has no reason to stay. Of course it may not matter, he may take off to the UFC anyways.
http://www.mma-collective.com/
They Are Okay at WW Too
Jake Shields (WW & MW)
Nick Diaz (WW & MW)
Jay Hieron
Andre Galvao
Nick Thompson
Joe Riggs
Duane Ludwig
Dennis Hallman
Phil Baroni
Tyron Woodley
Ross Ebanez
Luke Stewart
And finally, Mach Sakurai, who Coker plans on bringing over by the end of the year.
Where would Shields see better competition?
Georges St Pierre
Thiago Alves
Martin Kampmann
Carlos Condit
Josh Koscheck
Paulo Thiago
Matt Hughes
Matt Serra
Anthony Johnson
Karo Parisyan
Mike Swick
And so on…
No wonder Shields wanted to come to Zuffa. I’m sure he will soon.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 7, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Showtime isn’t all that(they are only in 16.5 million households) and so far we haven’t seen anything at all solid about Strikeforce being on CBS anytime in the near future. The money and the exposure would be better in the UFC and the competition in his weight class would be light years better.
way better lcompetition
i think everone but matt hughes, matt serra and karo will beat shields but thats just me….
by crackerface85 on Jun 9, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he has fought in both.
“Soon after the sport of mixed martial arts entered an explosive growth stage a few years ago, fighters who had been competing under other types of rules suddenly began flocking to the cage where greater career opportunities clearly existed. Just over twenty bouts deep into his mixed martial arts career, world kickboxing champion and K-1 veteran Duane "Bang" Ludwig continues to elevate his grappling game and improve his position as a top contender in the sport’s 170 pound limit division.”
Mayhem doesn't talk like he is with SF
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 7, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i assume you're referring to
mayhemmiller: id smash all those assholes in Strikeforce.
http://www.mma-collective.com/
Cung Le – Making movies
Robbie Lawler – Lost to a welterweight
Jake Shields – Is a welterweight
Jorge Santiago – Fighting Belfort at Affliction. Bad news if he loses.
Kazuo Misaki – Just lost to Santiago.
Mayhem Miller – Legit MW if he beats Jacare. Booked until then though.
Nick Diaz – Another welterweight.
Frank Shamrock – Lost to a welterweight and Cung Le.
Benji Radach – Lost to Smith.
Scott Smith – Lost to a welterweight. A body shot drops him every time.
Joey Villasenor – Found a MW coming off a win. I think we’re at 1 (not counting Le or Santiago).
Cyborg Santos – Lost 3 of his last 4 fights.
Eric Lawson – Never heard of the guy but apparantly is 9-2. Fights on Strikeforce undercards.
Luke Rockhold – 4-1 does not make a contender. Same as Lawson.
Cory Devela – 9-2 record, just lost to Terry Martin.
I think they need some more middleweights. That list is not “more than enough” talent.
by Swordslasher on Jun 7, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Nick Diaz is truly the top P4P jackass in the sport. He dominated his fight, but crapping all over Scott Smith’s camp crossed a line that I don’t think has ever been crossed before. So I guess I’m an even bigger Nick Diaz fan today than I was yesterday.
Gotta love Diaz. If something is on his mind, he spits it out. no BS about it.
http://www.mma-collective.com/
also
his monkey paw ninja boxing is fucking awesome. He threw what, like 6000 punches?
http://www.mma-collective.com/
Press conference notes
Nick Diaz continued shitting on Smith’s training camp at the press conference. He said something along the lines of “I have no respect for you if you live right around the corner from Cesar Gracie Academy, the best gym in the world, and you choose to train with morons instead.”
Baroni, who was seated next to Diaz, later commented “I was working my jits really hard at Drysdale’s, but maybe I should go to Cesar Gracie’s.”
When asked about Joe Riggs at the press conference, Jake Shields said something like: “I don’t need to even think about Joe Riggs. He isn’t worth a second of my time. End of story.”
Fedor, Barnett, and Mousasi were at the press conference but out-of-view in the back of the room. Still, they actually had to ask people to quiet down when they started the press conference as everyone was more interested in Fedor than the fighters who actually fought that night.
And one note from the fights: Feijao was absolutely KO’d by Mike Kyle…it wasn’t a TKO at all. He looked to be in bad shape afterwards and they brought a stretcher out for him, but he refused. One Strikeforce employee mentioned to me afterwards that Feijao reportedly had a broken jaw or cheekbone as a result of the Kyle beatdown.
Interesting to see Big John ref all the fights. They had a local guy do all the prelims, but I guess he might be the only licensed MMA ref in Missouri if they handed the entire main card to Big John? I wonder if they had to get McCarthy licensed in MO at the last minute, since I don’t recall there ever being a major event where John would have reffed in the state before.
by Scott Haber on Jun 7, 2009 7:50 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Experience as far as...
the atmosphere…the fights…the production?
Or just in general? I don’t want write a entire novel in the comments section ;)
Rec'd
Awesome write-up. Cool to see Fedor getting so much love.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 7, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor and Arlovski got, by far the biggest response from the crowd, with Lawler in 2nd and Diaz in 3rd.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 7, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
1,2,3,4,5, and 10
are all just “hating on”. So what that someone miss spoke, one of the announcers wasn’t jumping on his seat like Rogan, and Diaz is talking trash. The camera angles looked solid, and obviously the Gina/Cyborg fight will be at 145
Johnson sounds like he’s perpetually having brain farts.
There were several times the camera angles could have been better, but it could’ve been worse. Main one I remember was the Rogers/Arlovski finish. Thank god for instant replays tho. I think part of the camera thing is there’s only 6 sides as opposed to UFC having 8. That leaves only 4 out of the 6 sides open for camera men instead of 6 out of 8 (that’s 8-9% less available area).
And with Cyborg coming nowhere near 145 in her last fight, its not “obvious” that they would schedule it at that weight. I would say 150, or possibly even 155 if they are really worried about it.
http://www.mma-collective.com/
I don’t mind Johnson but he didn’t seem on his game tonite, seemed distracted. Not sure why, the card was pretty good.
I will agree, the camera work was pretty bad, more than one occasion they were shooting Big John’s back instead of the action. This is something you really notice, the UFC camera work and transitions from camera to camera really is top tier.
I’m sort of sad that Strikeforce has to have WW come up to catchweight, esp for Lawler. I’m sure Shield would love to go to the UFC but sadly that really isn’t his call is it. I’m not confident he’d do really well against the top tier UFC WW, I’m more interested in seeing Diaz back in the UFC than Shields.
Diaz had nothing but disrespect for Smith which I found amusing, he really can be a douchebag but whatever gets him fired up, I really think he is a great fighter. Nearly every punch landed, at that rate that is amazing feat.
Interested in Carano/Cyborg except I’m more interested if they set a higher weight because neither have had a lot of success making weight.
Arlovski didn’t get started and paid the serious price. I’m still not convinced that Rogers is ready against top tier, but he had an opportunity and capitalized on it. I’ve been a fan of his and I’m glad to see he’s doing all he can to take his career to the next level.
Baroni and Randleman really haven’t changed and both really need to take a long look at where they want to go with their career. I don’t know if I’d say they’re finished but neither showed they deserved to be in the big show any more.
I would have loved to see video of Kyle KTFO Feijao, not because I’m a Feijao hater but because of the barking he did after the fight against Silva. I wonder what he said, maybe something like “are you teaching all of your counterparts” to put on terrible performances?
1. Diaz entertains me. Like he said its a show nothing serious. He toyed with Smith.
2. Gus Johnson does a good job, calm down.
3. A bar arm choke… It’s called being human and making a mistake.
4. Someone here is a UFC nuthugger lol
5. Tsk Tsk, AA. No flying knee yet the same outcome?
6. Rogers better not get a big head. Overeem will murder him!
7. Baroni. Worst Gas Tank EVAH! No heart!
8. Riggs should me some new stuff out there. Props to him.
9. Randleman, oh poor Randleman. I’ll give you a free pass because you looked rusty (which isnt surprising), afraid to pull the trigger and should have won that fight when you dropped him.
10. Shields as their new WW and Diaz as their new MW champ should be good for SF.
11. Good show overall even though 3 of the fights didn’t go the way I wanted. AA, Baroni and Monster. *sigh
BONUS*
Tito Ortiz
Either I missed him when they showed him on cam or he wasn’t there at all. Hmm, Dana and Lorenzo had a meeting in Cali… Tito back in UFC?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, growing up as a child Kimbo Slice was never given any bread with his meals. This is why he insists people give him his bread."
Gus Johnson should be soaked in blood and dipped into a shark tank.
I hope Rogers can also expose Overeem’s overrated ass on his way to the UFC.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 7, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Rogers can also expose Overeem’s overrated ass on his way to the UFC.
And just what, exactly, makes Overeem overrated?
He has wins over Mark Hunt and Gary Goodridge and a loss to Sergei Kharitonov at HW. That doesn’t get you into the ‘who does Fedor fight after Barnett?’ discussion in my mind.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 7, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Who hasn’t?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 7, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OvereemArlovski will annihilate Rogers.
Fixed. Look familiar?
We’ll see.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 8, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously Baroni gassed
But I think he looked a lot better than I expected…. He was able to really neutralize Riggs on the ground outside of the triangle, landed more ground n pound than Riggs and was able to use his wrestling defensively, and a bit offensively. I think at this point he’s at the very least trying to become a better fighter…. Randleman on the other hand looked much worse than I expected, and outside of the knock down was more dissapointing.
A few thoughts having been at the show
1. When her husband’s victory was met with a cacophonous roar of boos from the adamantly pro-Arlovski crowd, Mrs. Rogers dug deep, and pulled out a major victory of her own: he performed what can only be described as a “Fuck You St. Louis” dance. If there is justice in this world, there is some video of it.
2. The Feijao knockout was very odd. If I recall correctly, he was knocked out by a pair of weak looking jabs. And Feijao didn’t look very impressive earlier in the fight either, with his shoulder roll defensive posture. Though he was clearly winning the fight, it was a very disappointing performance for him.
3. Jerry Millen was walking around pre-show like he thought they were playing the music for him. It was surreal.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Excuse me
she performed…
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 7, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
By the great Esther Lin
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 7, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The dance I was referring to was one she performed right outside the cage door, but yeah, she was doing her thing all over the place for a good two or three minutes.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
The commentating and camera work were bad enough to be annoying but those are things that will hopefully get better in the future. Not a fan of Gus at all but I guess it could be worse.
Brett Rogers impressed but I don’t think I’m ready to annoint him as the real deal quite yet. His future looks very interesting. Arlovski’s future also seems to be very interesting too but for all the wrong reasons.
Was impressed with Joe Riggs, considering that he broke both his hands. Still can Riggs get through a fight without falling apart? It seems like his body is older than 26 years old.
I’m a bit closer to jumping on the Jake Shields bandwagon.
(3) I assume you’re referring to the choke Diaz won with.
A bar arm choke (I think I remember hearing it called a back choke somewhere) is a choke using the forearm to crush the trachea. It looks a lot like a rear naked choke but it’s much much more painful. Half the time, people tap to it right away because it hurts whereas they can ride out and try to defend a rear naked choke for a few seconds. I rarely go for a rear naked choke. The bar arm choke is much quicker since you don’t have to pull your entire arm across their throat, just the wrist. Also, if they defend on one side, you can instantaneously switch sides.
I know it’s a bad description, but I don’t have time to explain myself better. Google it. I’m sure you’ll find something.
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