FightLines: UFC Heavyweights
by Mike Fagan on Jun 6, 2009 2:29 AM EDT
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MIR > NOGUEIRA > SYLVIA > ARLOVSKI > WERDUM > VERA > MIR
I don't buy the hype. The UFC heavyweight division is still one large clusterfuck, pardon my White. You have no standout number one guy. You have no one that really stands out as the next guy in line after Mir/Lesnar II. You have a single, six man loop filled guys who fight outside the division or company.
You have a champion with less than five fights on his resume. An interim champ who may or may not be rededicated to the sport. A rising stud with a 5-0 record who should probably continue seasoning but will get a title shot by years end. A 34 year old "prospect." A Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gorilla of a flop. A French kickboxer with "the look," no grappling, and a penchant for groin strikes. The AARP has your last undisputed champ's membership card ready to mail.
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Excuse my White, classic.
This one has not order, but I still love these. It a visualization of what we all have seen the past few years. And what you put so succinctly, UFC HW div is a clusterfuck.
I’m not 100% because I’m not sure on some of the lower tier guys’ status, but I think half the guys on here fight outside the division or the UFC now.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
They seem to throw every HW they can find in there at some point to see what sticks. Even guys that have done well like Dos Santos, he didn’t have a record that blew me away. Its one of those things that make the negative reaction to Kimbo a little puzzling. Sure he lacks skills, but if he was not high profile and was beating up total cans and put together a few wins, he’s in the UFC just like all these guys.
Few Questions:
1) Why don’t you draw lines from every winner to every loser, like Mir>Hardonk or Gonzaga/CC? Is the tiering supposed to assume that already?
2) Why are fighters no longer active in the HW division (Vera) still ranked?
3) Can a fight be too old to be considered for the data (Vera>As. Silva)?
Not trying to criticize, I just want to understand it better. I like the Fight Lines, they just confuse me a bit.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 6, 2009 2:47 AM EDT reply actions
1) there are beat paths from Mir to Hardonk, ect. Not the tiering, but the line
2) They had HW fights.
3) I think Mike uses three years.
by szucconi on Jun 6, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I suppose that's why...
… TUF is doing a season of all-heavyweights.
Unfortunately, at least a few of the guys going on the show are 30+; as good as they may be, that’s a late start for MMA. This sport — and the UFC in particular — needs some more guys around Jon Jones’s age.
Given all the much-discussed quandary of more lucrative opportunities in other sports for big athletic men in the US, it seems the best opportunity for attracting younger heavyweights will be in Europe and Brazil. That’s obviously happening already.
Jon Jones seems like a unique, or at least unusual, case. I’m not sure how many highly skilled, incredibly athletic guys in their early 20s are going to be available. Especially among American-born heavyweights.
by An Old Friend on Jun 6, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Randy never fought before his 30th birthday.
Randy is an unusual guy — at least he seems so to me.
The only guy I can see having a long career
Is machida and silva, but I still don’t think he can reach randys level cause they rely on speed..
But the way he and silva avoids damage would certainly extend their careers longer than the ave fighter.
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 6, 2009 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Randy fights and trains in a style that lowers the harm to his body
If you have seen the Countdown show before Randy’s fight against Lesnar, he trains in ways that are low impact. Also, his fighting style in the cage utilizing wrestling and clinching instead of brawling generally allows less physical harm to his body (not saying that he doesn’t get hurt at all because he does). Outside of that though, Randy Couture really is an anomaly. Part of it is what I described, part of it is that he is SO mentally strong, but the other part of why he is able to fight at a high level at his age is an enigma.
You are correct sir
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 6, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
where are?
crocop – gonzaga
mir – nogueira
sylvia – nogueira
vera – mir
The Mir/Nog/Vera/Sylvia bouts are in a closed loop, so that loop has been removed from the chart (It’s written under the picture).
CC/Gonzaga is accounted for if you follow the lines (Gonzaga>Marrero>Kongo>CC) – I had that same question.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 6, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s just not the UFC’s Heavyweight Division. It’s the entire HW Division across the sport. After Barnett/Fedor, there are basically no interesting fights in the division outside the UFC.
At least with the UFC, they are building up talent with young prospects and the next TUF Show. That’s more then anybody else is doing, as there are only a handful of prospects outside the UFC at this point (at best).
I think
I know thats rare, but if the HW division is in such disarray why are all promotions not trying to get fighters to fight one contract fights in other promotions. We’ve got one good guy here, one there, and a whole bunch of ok guys in the middle. What happens after the Mir/Lesnar fight, wh’s next, Barnett/Fedor, who’s next, there are guys that could possibly beat everyone, but for the most part, it’s win one, lose one.
Why is a clusterfuck a problem? That just means you have a lot of fighters that are of similar level to the champion lined up to fight for the title, unlike the divisions where there are no qualified challengers.
by thekiltedwonder on Jun 6, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
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