UFC 100 Special Edition: How Wrestlers Lose in MMA: Brock Lesnar, Frank Mir and the Kneebar
by Kid Nate on Jun 30, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
in MMA Technique
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Just around 18 months ago, I wrote a little series of posts about how wrestlers lose in MMA fights, especially when they are new to the sport. We covered: Basic Chokes, Knees to the Face, the Armbar, and as a cautionary tale, I did a special post on the travails of Sean Salmon.
I wrote the posts as a primer on the pitfalls awaiting the decorated amateur wrestler Brock Lesnar in his UFC debut. Not being psychic, I failed to anticipate the kneebar just like Brock Lesnar failed to anticipate the kneebar.
The MMA Ninja had a good account of the action:
After they were stood up, Mir tried two more kicks which Lesnar countered with a few hard punches which knocked Mir down. Lesnar pounced on Mir, landed in the sidemount/north side and proceeded to unleash another flurry of very hard looking punches. For a moment Mir turned on to his knees and Lesnar quickly spun around him to continue punching from the sidemount on the other side. Mir brought his legs up to try an armbar but Lesnar easily got out of that before he was in any danger. Lesnar continued to keep pressuring Mir with more punches from the top of the guard. He stood up and stepped into Mir's half guard where Mir went for a leglock. Lesnar spun away and threw himself away and down to try to get his leg away from Mir, but Mir held on and went for a kneebar. Lesnar tried to escape for a few seconds and tapped.
Brock Lesnar has been talking about his take on the kneebar:
Just because he caught me in a knee bar, it doesn't mean he's gonna get me in another submission. I mean I gave him that knee bar and he knows that. Prior to that was I in any vulnerable positions? No, he was.
His trainer Greg Nelson has a more nuanced analysis:
He's so athletic that it's easy for him to learn stuff, unlike the first fight, you know, his first fight he was a bit maybe too fast paced, a little too hyper-charged, that got him in a little bit of trouble. So this time he's been in there, slowing down a little bit. He's got heavier hands, better boxing, better jiu-jitsu, and wrestling's going to obviously be his strong point. Bottom line, I think you're going to see a lot more of the same of the first fight - except for his ability to defend the ground is going to be a lot better.
I should add that I no more expect Frank Mir to win by kneebar in the rematch than I expect to wake up covered in gold dust in the morning.
Unlike the moves I discussed in the original "How Wrestlers Lose in MMA" series, the kneebar isn't a pitfall that especially plagues wrestlers moving to MMA. Unlike the guillotine choke or the knee to the face, a kneebar isn't something that happens when you make a mistake on a takedown attempt. Unlike the arm bar or triangle choke, the kneebar isn't a submission that you fall into while riding in your opponent's guard and trying to work ground and pound.
The kneebar is a submission of the scramble and usually fighters with wrestling pedigrees like Lesnar's don't find themselves in many scrambles with fighters like Frank Mir who are not especially gifted or skilled wrestlers.
Simply put, Lesnar made a really boneheaded mistake in their first fight, but Frank Mir is such a skilled submission artist and is so quick on the ground for a heavyweight that one mistake is all it took.
Lesnar could easily make another mistake at UFC 100.
In the full entry, Frank Mir demonstrates the knee bar to Joanne of the MMA Girls
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Let’s get this straight.
Frank Mir is a great athlete, he has great jujitsu and is a very motivated fighter. He is also extremely intelligent and is very confident in his abilities. There is nothing wrong with Frank Mir. He speaks very well, he knows a lot about the sport, and he keeps you interested in the details.
He will not beat Brock Lesnar on July 11th. This has nothing to do with Frank Mir’s abilities — rather, it has everything to do with Brock Lesnar’s. The way he moves for his size, his wrestling, and his brute strength will be too much for most heavyweights to handle, and that includes Mir.
Mir looked spectacular against Nogueira. There is no doubt he is training hard. It just won’t be enough. Lesnar handled him like a child in their last fight. Lesnar will nullify everything Frank throws at him.
Expect this to be a short fight.
Handles him like a child … for 90 seconds.
I love how people always leave that out. If we go by that standard, Alistair Overeem is the baddest man in the history of the sport.
The fact of the matter is, Brock was only able to last for 90 seconds before he made a boneheaded mistake. Who cares what he did for the first 90 seconds of the fight if the final seconds consisted of him frantically tap, tap, tapping.
I suspect the same thing will happen this time if the fight goes long enough. Mir might have to eat a round or two of punishment before Brock makes a mistake in this fight (rather than a mere 90 seconds) but if he can weather the storm, that mistake will eventually happen. Brock is a fantastic talent and has the potential to beat anyone, but he is still green as grass and prone to mistakes just like every other inexperienced fighter in the history of the sport.
The longer this fight goes, the better it is for Mir.
He also TKO’ed one of the most experienced fighter in MMA and dominated another very experienced fighter for 3 rounds. The inexperienced fighter who fought Mir is long gone.
Nah.
He’s still inexperienced. Two more fights and another year of training does not make him an experienced fighter. He is still a babe in terms of experience.
If Mir can survive long enough, the mistake will happen. Of course, that is a big if.
He’s a more experienced fighter who has two quality wins under his belt. Herring might not have been a top ten, but if you expect Lesnar to come out of that fight without a scratch, you were one of few. If you want to play an experience game, not long ago Mir was destroyed by Vera…but before Mir and “titleshot” were breathed in the same sentence, he beat Brock Lesnar (who MANY people disregard completely, I commend you for not being so closed minded about Brock), then KO’ed Big Nog…not that defeating Big Nog isn’t an accomplishment, I would say it is the equivalent of defeating Randy Couture, which Brock did impressively.
There are MANY questions in this fight, hopefully we get just as many answers.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 30, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
And yes, I realize that I didn’t use experience perfectly in context, but I hope you can overlook that and see my point. lol
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 30, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
i’m really curious to see if lesnar will be goaded into taking it to the ground. i can definitely see mir playing possum to get him there, but will lesnar be so cautious about getting submitted again that he won’t even engage him?
really intriguing fight. too bad i’ll be camping and won’t get to see it!
Expect a lot more positional control and patients from Lesner. Pretty much the same thing he did to Herring except Mir will end up getting TKO’d because he will attempt to roll away from the control and end up exposing his face to the Donkey Kong hammer fists of doom.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Goodbones,
I agree with everything you said…
Except for the Frank losing and this being a short fight parts.
Frank Mir by RNC or armbar from guard after solid striking from the outside. Frank wants to test Brock’s cardio in this fight, so he’s not going to go heads up with him like he did the first time. He’s already stated that Brock hit’s like a truck (or a car, or some vehicle), and I think he’s going into this fight expecting it to go to the later rounds, so I imagine he’ll want to be fighting from the outside for as long as he can.
That crazy lead uppercut he was using on Nog is an invaluable asset, as most people have a hard time defending against that type of punch.
If his timing is on that night and he stays outside and uses that punch alot, I can see Brock getting tired and frustrated, shooting for a lazy, ill-timed double leg, Frank sprawling, taking his back, and sinking in the RNC.
That’s the way it goes in my mind, but as I’ve said before, Brock’s a fucking beast, so I don’t count him completely out. Mir by experience and gameplanning.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 29, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions
I would guess read naked choke and armbar (especially from the guard) would be two of the least likely submissions against Lesner due to the size of his back and neck and the power in his upper body.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 29, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What day man said…plus I really dont question Brocks cardio. You have to remember he was a D-1 college wrestler, and college wrestlers are cardio freaks. Mir on the other hand has been know for lack of cardio. Brock by “million 1 inch hammerfist of doom”——somebody on here said that but I dont remember who.
Day Man,
I’ve had a couple other’s reply the same way, and I don’t understand what Brock’s back and neck size and upper body strength have to do with Frank pulling off a RNC.
I’m 5’10", 160 lbs. and if I was able to get Brock’s back (hypothetically of course) and sink my arm under his chin, I could choke him out. I’m not talking about fighting him, I mean if he gave me the position, and allowed me to apply the choke (super hypothetically mind you), even my skinny arms could wrap around his neck and apply enough pressure to put him to sleep.
I used to train regularly with a guy who was a pretty big dude (wrestler/bodybuilder type, but nowhere near Brock’s size), and once it was locked, the rear naked worked every time. I find that a thick neck actually helps with the choke, as there’s less room for gaps. You can put even a huge man to sleep in as little as 3-5 seconds.
The beauty of the rear naked choke is, once it’s in, it’s in. Period. You don’t even have to be that strong to apply it, as it’s mostly about torque & leverage. And if your fresher than your opponent and you lock it in, well then it’s good night for sure!
I don’t see it happening on a fresh Brock. Come the later rounds though, if Brock gives up his back and Frank does what he’s good at (technical BJJ) then Frank can absolutely pull of the choke. I only see the armbar happening if Frank pulls it off quick enough that Brock is surprised by it and can’t posture up or flex his arm fast enough. Two subs that I absolutely don’t see are a triangle or a guillotine.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 29, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think a RNC is likely simply because I don’t think Frank Mir can ride Brock’s back long enough to make it happen. Rear naked chokes usually take quite a while to set up and I don’t think Mir can control Brock long enough to make that happen. Brock will be able to scramble his way out of any bad positions the same way he did when Couture took him down.
I think an armbar is perfectly feasible. Brock certainly has a propensity for getting a little loose with his ground & pound. If he gets sloppy and gives Mir’s hips a little space, I could certainly see Frank pivoting and locking up an arm.
A triangle is the move that interests me. I am not sure if Frank’s legs are long enough to wrap around the human meatpile that is Brock Lesnar’s back and lock in the choke.
Well the way I see it is Frank jumping straight to the back from a lazy, ill timed double leg in the later rounds, so setup should be fairly simple, if Mir can stay fresher. See, I don’t think Frank would dare try for the RNC early. It’s definitely a late round submission. I think the success rate for the RNC goes up as the rounds pass and fighters get more gassed.
If Brock is the more fatigued and Frank ends up with his back, he’ll wait for that good moment, wait out a panicky Brock (who I’m sure doesn’t drill RNC defense with sparring partners that have as much ground skill as Frank) and eventually seal the choke. If they get to the 3rd or 4th round and Frank gets the back, it should take less than two minutes to seal the deal from that position,
It’s just the way I’ve imagined it though, and I could also definitely see Brock just crashing his way through most anyone’s gameplan.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I go back (no pun intended) to the Couture fight when Randy tried to take Brock’s back. The sheer size of the back prevented Randy from being able to come over the top of it and lock anything in.
While I have no doubt that if Mir was able to fully lock in an RNC he could finish the fight I just find it much less likely that he would be able to lock in a choke like that just due to brock’s size, speed and strength. It would be like trying to lock in an RNC on a bull.
As far as Brock gassing to the point where all he could do is give up his back in an attempt to survive, I guess thats possible, I just find it equally if not more likely that Mir would be completely gassed at that point as well.
I’m actually interested in seeing Brock shoot for some double legs. In his other fights he has achieved top control through battering his opponents on their feet and following them to the ground. I think he could have some devastatingly lethal slams if he were to lock in a deep double leg like he used to in college (although since his gameplan in the previous two fights has been pretty conservative I don’t think his camp will give him the go ahead for anything like that).
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 30, 2009 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I go back (no pun intended) to the Couture fight when Randy tried to take Brock’s back. The sheer size of the back prevented Randy from being able to come over the top of it and lock anything in.
While I have no doubt that if Mir was able to fully lock in an RNC he could finish the fight I just find it much less likely that he would be able to lock in a choke like that just due to brock’s size, speed and strength. It would be like trying to lock in an RNC on a bull.
Well said. But Randy was 45 years old and he didn’t come into that fight at 255-265 lbs.
And I also feel that way in round one and two, but I think if Frank can control the pace and get it to the later rounds and goad Brock into shooting for a bad double leg, the wheels will be set in motion and Frank can pull it off. He also really needs to manage his own energy levels as well, as others have already questioned his cardio.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Also as far as you being able to choke out Lesner, wouldn’t it be nearly impossible for you to gain and keep any leverage? You would have to choke him with just arm strength and hope he didn’t have enough strength to pull your arm away (and among things I would never bet against is Brock’s strength). I just think there is a big difference between a big guy while training and Brock Lesner in beast mode.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Sorry,
what I had meant in my little hypothetical daydream was if Brock Lesnar allowed me to take his back, wrap my legs around him and sink in the choke ( basically without him doing anything to defend it, kinda like for training purposes ), I could put him to sleep.
I was basically trying to argue against the idea that Brock’s neck is too big for Frank to wrap his arm around, and was trying to show that, technically speaking anyone with an average wingspan and moderate strength could physically perform the choke.
Please don’t take what I said up there as a boast, because I just meant it as an example. I would never even dare spar with that guy, or ever, ever, ever try to roll with him. I wouldn’t even hold his target mitts. That dude’s scary. ;)
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
No worries I wasn’t taking it as a boast at all. More a reflection on the art of the choke itself which I happen to respect very much. I was just trying to get a mental picture in my head and all I kept seeing is Brock moving his shoulders from side to side and you holding onto his neck for dear life.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Yeah man,
In a real situation, I’d be able to hold on for 2 seconds before he reversed it and I started crying for fear of what’s about to happen. :P
But see, I think Mir will be able to use Brock’s broad shoulders to his advantage, as it will be much harder for Brock to spin out into Mir’s guard. It’s a lot easier to spin out for someone with narrow shoulders, because there’s more space to work with. Brock’s wide shoulders will make it more difficult to spin out, because he won’t really have much room to wiggle around. I would see him trying to spin out, and his shoulder getting blocked by the mat or Mir’s chest before he could get all the way around.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree anybody can be choked if they allow you to sink it, but as you know that will be a huge problem with Brock. He’s so strong that it seems to me like it would be nearly impossible to break his hand control. If he’s smart all he would really need to do is control one of Mir’s hands and he SHOULD be able to stop a choke. Plus I think trying to take Brocks back would be somewhat like trying to ride a pissed off bull.
I think Brock will panick if he gets put in the RNC setup. He’s not used to being in the disadvantaged position, especially not from someone of Frank’s jitz caliber.
Sometimes, when you’re really tired and frustrated, the old 2 on 1 just gets forgotten about at the crucial moment, especially if you’re still fairly green.
Mir will have to put pressure on Brock, get him tired and frustrated, and then work the choke. No attempts in the early going, just waiting it out and taking it when Brock “gives” it to him.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting take on it… but i question if mir is the one with the better stamina going into this fight.
While Lesnar is an athlete, and most likely has a great work ethic, I always have to question his cardio just because of his sheer size. I mean, he just has so much muscle that one would think that it would affect his cardio in the cage. While some could make the argument that Lesnar showed good cardio in the Herring fight, Lesnar hardly did any standup, had top control most of the fight, and he was simply holding down Herring a lot during that fight. Nothing in that fight really TESTED his cardio.
Mir, of course, has many questions regarding his cardio as well though.
by chrisbboy82 on Jun 29, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if you have questions about Brock’s cardio, Frank’s has proven to be substandard over and over, and he’s not exactly a small guy himself.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Thank you Mike, said it quick and easy. I would say if anything, Brock and Mir’s tanks are very, very similar.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 30, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
just my two cents
I don’t think Mir is going to control where or how this fight takes place. We know if Brock wants him on his back thats where Mir will be, I don’t believe Frank is going to be able to stay on the outside for long, with Brocks ability to close the gap and dump almost anyone he wants on their head. It will be an interesting fight no doubt. I can’t wait to see how game plans play out, Mir’s experience will be key in his game plan for sure. As for a RNC I don’t see that happening, arm bar, I’m not sure Mir has the strength to pull something like that off, I really don’t care if he broke Timmah’s arm, Tim don’t have the strength of Lesnar. The only sub I seeMir winnings this fight with will be either a kimrua (I know I spelled it wrong) or another lower body sub. Other than that the only way Mir is going to win is if he TKO’s Brock, which I really don’t see happening, but hey anything is possible. I can’t wait to see this fight.
I have found
that wrestlers green to bjj have a tendency to get caught in knee bars when attacking the turtle position. They use their leg position for control to set up an attack, but it leaves them susceptible to rolling knee bars. Here’s an example, I don’t know how to embed video so a link will have to suffice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FYRmAftSpE
it’s a position we drill regularly b/c we compete against a lot of wrestlers, and it works a high percentage of the time.
by mictlantechutli on Jun 30, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions
I’ve rolled with a guy who showed me that, it’s great. Glad to see someone post that, makes glad to know out of the few times I have rolled, I learned something useful.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 30, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice!
I love that figure four setup! Very practical move, that guy didn’t know what happened. Definitely looks like a move worth drilling.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
this is a good point
but Mir wasn’t turtling and the turtle isn’t a position that BJJ guys tend to get into. Judo guys, yes. Shootwrestlers, yes.
Can you point me to some more MMA fights that wrestlers have lost by kneebar?
I’m happy to be corrected, but I still stand by my assertion that I caught most of the most common ways wrestlers lose in mma.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I can’t point you to any mma fights off the top of my head, but I’ll thing about it and see if I can’t come up with any. And I think you did catch most of the ways wrestlers lose in mma. I was just using a personal example of how a wrestlers background can teach them “control” positions that don’t always fly in bjj or mma. Plus, I thought it was a cool video of my friend wrenching some dudes knee :)
by mictlantechutli on Jun 30, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You sir are very right. I wrestled for a long time, and when I was new to BJJ I used to get caught with knee bars from turtle somewhat often. Luckily I learned and don’t make that mistake anymore.
The good thing is that wrestlers usually can adapt very quickly to BJJ provided they come into it with an open mind. So you got to catch them while they’re still figuring out all the little idiosyncrasies!
by mictlantechutli on Jun 30, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I’d say its a safe bet to say that in most case a good wrestler can become good at BJJ if he is willing to learn….Same for BJJ guys and wrestling. My BJJ coach is picking up wrestling very fast. I used to be able to take him down pretty easily…not anymore. The two really go hand in hand with eachother
Mir by way of K.O!
I have read a couple hundred comments on various sites involving this fight and this is the only ending I havent heard anyone bet the farm on… so I am going to drift away from the pack and say Frank will find his button and KO Brock early! I just think its going to be one of those fights that catches everyone off guard…. like what if Frank ends up tapping?
I’ll see your ridiculousness and raise you Brock by Kimura in the second round (I seriously think with his strength he could get ahold of an arm while in top control and go all snap, crackle and pop on it).
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
That would be the shit. And it doesn’t sound too ridiculous. Frank might never expect it.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Mir's going to get annihilated.
Brock’s not going to hand him another submission.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 30, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions
Would you be interested in making an alteration to our bet?
- If Hendo wins I change my display pic to the Ottawa Senators logo
- If Bisping wins you change your display pic to the Kansas City Chiefs logo
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
I do already have a sig line bet for Hamill/Vera… so I might have to go Chiefs/no sig and then Bob Sapp potato head/sig.
Fine. If Bisping wins, I’ll be too busy dealing with the monkeys flying out of my ass to care.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 30, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s a question that I think a lot of you will be able to answer:
What would have happened if the ref didn’t stand them up in the beginning of the fight?
Yeah, but I have a theory, and it ends with Mir’s funeral.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 30, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
brock actually did more damage after the stoppage, and had almost the same identical position.
He hit Mir in the back of the head repeatedly, and was warned, but was being overzealous… For all the talk of his punching power, a foul to the back of the head is serious business.
Brock by TKO. Brock by the peoples elbow. Brock by Flying Gogoplata. Go figure. Obviously mir taking punishment (you can call them rabbit punches of doom if you like) let little doubt on who was winning at this exact moment. But THIS is not boxing this IS MMA and “everything” can happen, you know the drill.
Brock needs to worry about countless other submissions when he faces Frank in the rematch and not the kneebar. What people also forget is how varied Mir’s submissions are at anypoint from anywhere Lesnar is in trouble and he’s going to get tapped again at UFC 100.
While I am not a huge fan of Lesnar, do you really think that Mir is going to avoid getting hit by those 4XLs (or 5XL, I forgot if it was Lesnar or Carwin) in the standup and NOT get dropped? I am not saying that Mir cannot submit Lesnar because he most certainly can, but how exactly is Mir going to get this mammoth of a person to the ground (unless Lesnar takes it there of course)? Don’t get me wrong because I am actually rooting for Mir to win, but it is going to be tough.
Lesner via KO by reversing a flying guard pull into an arona/rampage bomb
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Lesner via KO coma by reversing a flying guard pull into an arona/rampage bomb
Thought that sounded a little more realistic. ;)
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t agree. If Lesnar gets caught, it’s not going to be by armbar or kimura or d’arce/brabo, or even likely a guillotine or rear naked. He needs to watch his legs, and watch the triangle, and I’d even be hesitant if I were Mir in going for triangles against Lesnar. OTOH, if Mir isn’t locking up any subs, he tends to take a ton of damage from his guard, which is not good against a guy like Lesnar with huge hands, huge power, and long reach.
by Hardcharger on Jun 30, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree IF he get subed it will be by knee bar or ankle lock of some sort. I have found when rolling with super strong guys that leg attacks are the way to go because they can’t just power out of them very easy. And I don’t see Brock being triangled because 1.He is so freaking broad I don’t think Mir’s legs will lock around his shoulders 2. as day man said I could see a arona/rampage bomb if Frank by some miracle did lock the triangle.
If not Mir... than who?
While I’m not 100% confident that Mir will win, I am confident he is going to give Brock the best fight that anybody not named Fedor can. For all the Frank haters or Brock lovers that think this a no contest who at HW can provide Brock a better fight?
Still think Big Nog is his true test in the UFC. If he wins that fight then you can bet the farm on him crushing Cain (that fight would literally be free money) and Carwin (you can’t let Brock land shots the way Gonzaga did and expect to be still standing to deliver a counter punch K.O.).
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 30, 2009 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Carwin in a year?
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 30, 2009 3:57 AM EDT reply actions
Ok I’m not convinced, you just took the trainer words for it, but let’s say he’s right, brock on the ground can get himself in many bad spot. It will depend on who makes the mistake first. I expect mir to be elusive enough in the stand up and tactical enough to be prepared when the bulrush takedown arrives. There Mir needs to be prepared to take advantage RIGHT AWAY. If he goes down on a punch like last time, I expect broke to finish him carefully or even to stand up. Not betting on anyone, but that shouldn’t be the beating some guys here are expecting.
I want to see..
Mir try an armbar… I just think it’d be funny as hell.
As for the fight, 5 rounds is a LONG time to avoid Lesnar now that he’s got some real experience. I see Lesnar by TKO in the late 2nd.
Trust me if Mir gets a hold of Brock’s arm no one will be laughing, he might literally snap it off and take it home with him as a trophy afterwards. Mir’s grip is very strong all he needs is to get a good hold of a body part early and you will see Brock either get something snapped of chocked out it’s that good.
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