Bloody Elbow: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: World Soccer Digest for Soccer Fans!

Can Bobby Lashley Save Affliction?

Bobbylashley_mediumTodd Jackson thinks he can:

Affliction has that name recognition, and the fans know they carry many talented fighters. On the other hand, one has to wonder how, when time marches on, will they continue to produce high profile fighters.

One would have to imagine continually absorbing fighters who have vacated the UFC is not going to work forever. With the inclusion of fighters like Babalu, Tim Sylvia, and Andre Arlovksi, it has worked so far. Still, Affliction must separate itself in its own right from the UFC and its fighters.

That being said, they may learn a thing or two from the practices of the UFC.

This means cultivating up-and-coming fighters who have both the talent and potential star power to help Affliction stand on its own. This is not to say they are not currently pursuing this angle-only to say there is a viable option just waiting to be picked up by a top shelf promotion.

That option is Bobby Lashley.

What the UFC has done so successfully with Brock Lesnar is not out of the realm of possibility for an alliance between Lashley and Affliction.

This has the potential to become the catalyst for Affliction-strengthening its presence and prolonging its tenure in this game. Lashley has that star power to attract cross-over fans from the world of professional wrestling.

No, no it doesn't.

He's got one sort of valid point here, Affliction is doing nothing to build new fighters, they're just burning t-shirt cash on fighters who made their names in PRIDE and the UFC.

But for the rest of it, I'm afraid Jackson is making a mistake I made about a year ago when I first heard Lashley was coming from WWE to MMA: assuming that Lashley is popular enough with the wrestling audience to inspire a crossover of fans to MMA. Brock Lesnar did it, but the problem is Lashley is not Lesnar.

For one thing, he's not quite the athlete Lesnar is. Lesnar was the 2000 NCAA national champion as a heavyweight. Lashley was the NAIA national in 1997 and 1998 at  177 pounds. I'm not making light of Lashley's accomplishments, winning the NAIA national championship is a serious accomplishment but winning the NCAA's is a much bigger accomplishment.

Also Lashley is not naturally as big and strong as Lesnar. He's very big and strong but Lesnar cuts weight to make 265, Lashley weighs in around 255 and has bulked up enormously since his college wrestling days. Lesnar has put on muscle as well, but proportionally much less.

Then there's the evidence of their MMA fights. Let's face it, Brock Lesnar is a freaking prodigy and Lashley isn't. Lashley is a serious prospect, but that's all he is. In his third MMA fight, Lesnar was sending Heath Herring ass-over-feet across the ring with one punch. In his second MMA fight, Lashley struggled to win a decision over an overweight light heavyweight in Jason Guida.

Even in pro-wrestling, Lesnar outshone Lashley, winning the marquee WWE belt twice and had periods as both one of the top heroes and one of the top heels in the game. Lashley only held the second-tier ECW belt and never really got over with pro wrestling fans.

This doesn't mean I'm not following Lashley's career with interest, but he's just a prospect with an unusually high profile. And compared to guys like Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal or Ben Askren or Jake Rosholt or Satoshi Ishii, he's older. At 32 he's as old as Antonio Rogerio Nogueira or Wanderlei Silva. Sure he's younger than Shane Carwin, so I wouldn't say he's too old to make an impact or even to win a major title, but I would say his window to do it is much shorter than the younger prospects.

That's the Lashley side of things, as far as Affliction, I think its too late for anything to save that promotion.

2 recs  |  Comment 55 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I guess I should have put up a poll!

: )

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jun 27, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha the infamous “yes I’m completely right” poll (:

Kuwabara Kuwabara

by J. B. Maddox on Jun 27, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Backed

All the same, I really hope lightning will strike a flying pig in frozen Hell twice, because I really do support Affliction. Yeah they made a lot of mistakes, but they were mistakes that gave us all some shows worth watching, and any competition at all in the upper echelon of promoters can only do more good than harm for fighters and fans.

"The wise have something to say, the foolish have to say something."

by PistonHyundai on Jun 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t support stupid, and the business decisions of Affliction are the epitome of that.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jun 27, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

remember Mega Deth?

by MMAcGyver on Jun 27, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Megadeth and MMA, but the two are not to be mixed.

by szucconi on Jun 27, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Yeah they made a lot of mistakes” = Megadeth

"The wise have something to say, the foolish have to say something."

by PistonHyundai on Jun 27, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is holding a belt in pro wrestling shorthand for a certain level of popularity or something?

Cause the way it was put in the article kind of implied that there the WWE belt was something he earned, not something the writers gave him for scripting purposes.

by toxic on Jun 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...

to be fair you do usually “earn” a title in the biggest promotion on the world through either talent, hard work, popularity…etc. The writers aren’t just like “let’s put a title on this guy! the fans will hate it and he won’t be able to handle it!” Yeah, occasionally you’ll get a messed up situation where they’re trying to force something. but there is a large amount of “earning” and “deserving” a title in pro wrestling

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you mean, a glorified employee of the month? lol You are correct sir. Dunno how people don’t get this…yeah pro wrestling is scripted, but it’s not as mindless as people make it out to be. I’ll never forget being a little kid and watching wrestling, good memories. lol

by kyfm621 on Jun 27, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s “earned” by getting over with fans, if you can’t draw you normally don’t get anywhere. The WWE tried to push Lashley really hard but he just never clicked with many fans, thus he never really went anywhere. Brock Lesnar was an almost instant headliner, even in pro wrestling he was something special.

by who me on Jun 27, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The “forcing Lashley down everyone’s throat” thing also caused a lot of resentment from the fans. The guy got disliked because of company decisions, it isn’t his fault, but it does mean that he isn’t a monster draw right now

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is a real difference in creating a star and trying to force people to like someone, occasionally the WWE gets that mixed up and the big push just doesn’t work. Lashley is a perfect example of that, they tried to make him a big star so hard that it actually made him less of one. Of course Lashley didn’t have the wrestling personality to draw as a heel either, people didn’t even care enough to hate the guy.

by who me on Jun 27, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of odd, something I remember from my WWF watching days was

them throwing The Rock down everyone’s throats as a good guy and he was booed terribly. He had the charisma though pull off the heel and eat it up. Next thing you knew, people cheered for him.

Lashley couldn’t pull that off.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 27, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. The Rock was able to role with it when he got the chance, Lashley just didn’t have a pro wrestling personality.

by who me on Jun 28, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that’s the problem with this entire article. And why Nate is right.

The WWE, which has been successful and has a clue, couldn’t make Lashley the next Lesnar. Why would Affliction be able to do it?

by Phildo on Jun 28, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think wrestling fans will be interested in Bobby Lashley. He was involved in a high profile match at a Wrestlemania with Donald Trump. So I do think wrestling fans will be curious to see how he does.

by 49er16 on Jun 27, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Being a former wrestling fan myself...

and knowing a large number of hardcore fans of wrestling still. Most of them could give a shit about Lashley. That match was less about Bobby than all the surrounding factors.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree 100% lashley was the black brock lesnar in WWE and he never matched up with the hype same goes for MMA. Lashley has potential but he seems more like a prospect as kid nate put it then Lesnar who seems more like a prodigy. Brock could face any HW right now Fedor included and people would at the very least think he has a shot. Lashley not so much. Brock is also more powerful to market. He is bold and colorfull enough to the point he gets under many MMA fans skin. They would pay money just to see him lose. Lashley is soft spoken and very respectable while that is good traits to have as a learning MMA fighter it isn’t as a face of a organization. Putting all the chips on Lashley could lead Affliction to its demise much like Kimbo did Elite XC. Lashley is a much better prospect then Kimbo but i still think being center stage could be too much for the quiet fighter. Lashely and Brock both came from the Pro wrestling world. The comparisons stop there.

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trump vs McMahon was the draw, they were trying to use Trump to get Lashley over. Vince McMahon went to the level of having his own head shaved to try and get Lashley over but for the most part fans still didn’t care much about him.

by who me on Jun 27, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What Vince really failed to realize was...

…he Pushed Vince vs Trump. Not the match.

This really hurt Bobby in the long run.

"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."

-Lao Tzu

by RoyalB on Jun 27, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lashley was already not getting over at all by that point.

by who me on Jun 28, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Affliction is done after this show anyways. Nobody can save their flawed business plan.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 27, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That’s exactly what I thought when I read the quoted line “With the inclusion of fighters like Babalu, Tim Sylvia, and Andre Arlovksi, it has worked so far.” If their business plan was to run up massive losses and fold after 3 shows as a publicity stunt for their t-shirt company, then yes, the plan has worked so far.

Buying up other people’s talent isn’t always a dead end street in sports (see NY Yankees). If there’s a serious investigation into the legality of MMA fighter contracts and whether the Muhammad Ali act can be applied, then whoever has the most money and willingness to spend it becomes the major leagues and can buy up the minor league talent at will.

by Stanlee on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who is he going to fight? he isnt ready for Fedor and Barnett. Arlovski and Timmy is done. He would be fed to the wolves. He should of did TUF with Kimbo and Nelson

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They could always sign people his level to short cheap contracts.

Build him up. Let him develop.

 He’ll draw in more fans regardless of who he fights.l

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lashley isnt that big a draw to begin with. Facing him against a Can wont help much

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kimbo would work but the UFC has him now for peanuts.

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

No one fighter can ‘save’ Affliction , but I’m really thinking that there’s a chance they’ll have a 4th show. I know , they called the 3rd show trilogy and they’re either not making money or losing money , but I’m thinking they can throw a fight between winner of Fedor/Barnett and winner of Overeem/Rogers , or lets be serious – throw a fight between Fedor and Overeem. I think that’s a great matchup , Overeem will be coming off a very good winning streak and it makes for an intriguing match up. I just really hope we’ll get to see it , together with a strong co main event it will be another good card .
If Affliction folds , I at least hope Fedor will fight Overeem either in Strikeforce or in Japan somehow . I’m actually more excited to see Fedor vs Overeem than Fedor vs Lesnar , I’m hyped from Overeem’s slaughter of Badr Hari it was simply amazing .

by JoelMan on Jun 27, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the problem...

with Fedor/Overeem on American soil is the complete lack of name value for what you’d have to pay for it to happen.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

bingo….affliction is falling because they are marketing fighters in america nobody gives a shit about. The only way fedor and overeem and other big fighters from japan can get the audience they deserve is either stay in japan or the UFC. In the US if your not cosigned by the UFC you don’t matter which is bs but it is what it is. UFC hype machine can turn anybody into a star.

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup...

One of the reasons I really want Fedor to go to the UFC is so that he’ll finally get the name recognition he deserves.

I know it probably sounds stupid as hell but it’s “fanboy logic” (read: almost none at all).

by Tonley on Jun 27, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup same here Fedor would get his deserved recognition from the states inside the UFC.

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone think that Dana and co. are secretly happy that Affliction is pushing Fedor and spending money up front to put his name out there? I mean he is also uping his worth by fighting in america before signing with the UFC. Its a huge risk of losing, but that gain could be pretty good for him and good for the UFC if that deal gets done in the future. I don’t think they would mind paying for a semi-star rather then the #1 HW that no one has ever heard of.

by szucconi on Jun 27, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a good point. Could change the cost-benefit analysis for signing Fedor once he’s on the market again.

by An Old Friend on Jun 27, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s not the money with Fedor, it’s all the other assorted nonsense the Fink wants.

The whole Randy drama started because they offered Fedor more money than Randy to fight Randy. It’s all the other bells and whistles that you have to put up with when dealing with M-1 that stopped the deal from happening.

And I really don’t think the difference between Fedor’s US popularity before and after Affliction is that much. The UFC is going to have to do a major marketing push after they get the guy, no matter what Affliction does, because they can reach a lot more people.

by Phildo on Jun 28, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The people who buy Affliction know Overeem

I disagree , I think everyone who bought the first three shows would buy a fourth . It might not be much , but the fans Affliction made will tune in for a fourth . Why I’m saying this – because I’m pretty sure 99% of whoever buys the PPVs does it because of Fedor . There’s no way people bought it because of Sylvia , Arlovski might be a reason but I doubt it (I’m thinking the 3rd show , without Andrei , will do about the same as the first 2 ). So basically I think Affliction fans are ‘hardcore’ fans or close , otherwise how would you explain a co main event such as Mousasi-Babalu , Mousasi never even set foot in America. Mousasi is definitely a name only the hardcores know of – and actually also Barnett (I doubt Barnett has any UFC-only fan boys , he fought in America last time in 2002…) , so I’m saying the way Affliction built their 3rd card shows they’re appealing for a very specific crowd.
So the question is – did they gather enough momentum with these shows to try a 4th or did they lose too much money and will fold.
Just wanted to add that if Overeem beats Rogesrs we can expect another leap in the rankings for him , maybe even to number 3 (I guess 2 will be taken by Lesnar/Mir) . Overeem can be easily hyped for a Fedor fight and rightly so , the only question remaining is if Affliction can make a 4th and if Overeem will come out clean in the urine tests.

by JoelMan on Jun 27, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well…yeah, if they want to draw the same amount of fans, sure. But obviously they’re not doing enough monetarily on their shows so they need to be pulling bigger numbers. Overeem/Fedor isn’t going to boost numbers.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well we’ll see … if they’re really losing money badly on every show I can’t see why they’re doing a 3rd though , are they really expecting Barnett to bring more buys than Arlovski? Who knows what goes through their heads . Personally I like what they’re doing and I want to see that fight damnit(Overeem Fedor) , and if not that then at least lets see one of them fight in the UFC .
That’s gonna be my christmas wish .

by JoelMan on Jun 27, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they signed a bunch of guaranteed 3 fight contracts

and will be paying the fighters whether they hold events or not. Unlike most fight promotions that go bust, Affliction has another pile of money they can be sued for.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jun 27, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even if Affliction doubled their buyrate numbers they would still be millions in the hole on these shows. They don’t need to just sell to the same handful of people they need to break out in a really big way with the casual fans if they want to continue with this and be sucessful (or even break even). Staying at the same level of sales for them is a failure.

by who me on Jun 27, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They dont need affliction to hype him for them. The moment he signs with the UFC Dana White will announce him as the baddest dude on the planet and he will be a superstar.

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If they threw a bunch of money at him and he was actually serious about fighting (which I doubt), Kurt Angle would be a huge draw for Affliction. There would be a ton of risks with that though.

by michaelgaryscott on Jun 27, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ya he would but the risk is threw the roof. His neck is held together with nuts and bolts

"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye

by Pitbull on Jun 27, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lashley will get Fedor

move up the rankings to #2 and we get to do this all over again.

by Riney on Jun 27, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In his third MMA fight, Lesnar was sending Heath Herring ass-over-feet across the ring with one punch. In his second MMA fight, Lashley struggled to win a decision over an overweight light heavyweight in Jason Guida.

’Nuff said.

by subo on Jun 27, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I put a little somethin’ on Sapp.

by goodbones on Jun 27, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“What the UFC has done so successfully with Brock Lesnar is not out of the realm of possibility for an alliance between Lashley and Affliction.”

Proof the writer knows virtually nothing about the promotional structure of this industry.

by Michael Rome on Jun 27, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All this talk of Lashley being a big draw could go right out the window if Bob Sapp lays him out. Sapp isnt the best fighter in the world but if he lands one good strike i gatta beileve that Lashley is taking a nap. A loss to Sapp would be a nuke in his MMA career.

by Riley_96 on Jun 27, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lesnar didnt sell shit when he fought for K-1… Lashley wont sell shit tonight.

Add to this the fact that Affliction cant even sell ppv’s with 6m dollar plus payrolls and you’ll see this would be exercise in futility.

Lashley would be most valuable to strikeforce.

by mmalogic on Jun 27, 2009 8:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Misrepresenting My Article

Hi there,
    Overall I am elated that A: you found my article B: the topic was compelling enough for you to cut and paste it here and discuss it in this forum and C: that your article gained mine even more recognition.
    All that being said I never once insinuated that Lashley would be the saving grace for Affliction. I only asked the question would the move be a prudent one. I supported the question with some ideas of why it may work but never once gave the impression that this would save the day for Affliction. I am a little put off by you misrepresenting my article in such a fashion. Even still, I completely respect your site as it has quite a reputation. Even being mentioned out of context is an honor. Thanks and take care. Todd Jackson

by t.jackson on Jun 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken
Start posting on Bloody Elbow »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
TUF 10 Contestant, Darrill Schoonover to Return to Active Army Duty
Tracy_lee_martin_mcneil_small
UPDATE: It's (99%) on: Machida / Rua II on May 1st
Small
The REAL Controversy at UFC 106
Mirkneebaraim640_small
Georges St Pierre vs. Dan Hardy to Headline UFC 109 in February?
Nav-logo-hover_small
UFC 106: Pros Pick Forrest Griffin and Tito Ortiz fights

Recent FanPosts

Small
Why do people think UFC has the best Heavyweights?
Just_tiger_small
Kim Couture (10K) top earner at Strikeforce Challengers V
Just_tiger_small
Josh Burkman KO's Brandon Melendez at Throwdown Showdown V
Headkick-lg_small
Judging Change: Reward Flashy Fightres?
Alvarezavatar_small
Update On SRC x DREAM NYE Event
Small
Fantasy match-making in the UFC Light HW Division
Small
Mixed Martial in South Asia

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings