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Japan Key to Affliction Trilogy? Dana Tampering With Affliction? Overeem Next For Fedor? One More Big Fight TBA?

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As was leaked by MMAWeekly, Gomi had been in talks with Affliction to participate in their Trilogy event in August.  To most, this could have been a great addition to a card that already had star power on it, while trying to manage their budget.  But, did Affliction have something else in mind when they were trying to put Gomi on the card? Lets take a closer look at Afflictions move for their upcoming Trilogy card.

More after the jump...

Star-divide

Japan A Key for Affliction Trilogy?

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Gomi has already mentioned that he is looking to fight in America very soon, and is in talks with Affliction and the UFC.  He also wishes to fight in the newly announced Vale Tudo Japan promotion springing up soon, so Gomi signing with a promotion that offers a non-exclusive contract would seem to be a definite plus, which Affliction and Strikeforce can offer. 

So, why would Affliction be trying to put Gomi on its card without having any real opponents for him at the time? Rumors are that Affliction may offer Affliction Trilogy as a PPV option for Japan via SkyPerfecTV. Straight from Japan:

In M-1 global Video blog, Fedor and G.MUSASHI's TV CM training is uploaded, In this training,Fedor and MUSASHI said "Affliction ha Skaper de"(In English," Please watch Affliction in skyperfecTV ")

It means this event is broadcasted in japan PPV, This is big news, FEDOR VS JOSH BARNETT is the best match, for japanese MMA fan. if we can watch realtime show, this is happy.

 Now that Affliction Trilogy may appear on SkyPerfecTV (which is how the Sengoku PPV's and previous PRIDE PPV's were offered to Japanese MMA fans), it changes the perspective of the Trilogy lineup.  

 

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Fedor Emelianenko vs Josh Barnett

This bout will be the main event on this card, which is probably one of the biggest HW fights in recent history for Japanese MMA.  This is the PRIDE HW bout that everyone was waiting for during the PRIDE glory days, and can now finally be realized.  This fight should have some major draw and attention from Japan.  

 

 Gegard-mousasi

Gegard Mousasi vs Renato "Babalu" Sobral

Mousasi made his name in PRIDE,  and is now doing it in K-1 and DREAM, where he won the MW GP after defeating Denis Kang, Melvin Manhoef and Jacare to become the DREAM MW Champ.  He is currently competing in the Super Hulk tourney, recently defeating another popular Japanese fighter, Mark Hunt via submission.  He will fight Sokoudjou in the Tourney semi-finals later on this year, and could potentially take his second Japanese tourney in a row.  He also competed in K-1, disposing of  four-time K-1 Japan GP champion Musashi on the NYE show. His popularity is defnitely on the rise.  Babalu also has a name in Japan, fighting some legendary fighters in the Ring organization like Fedor and Tamura.  He also has a win over Shogun Rua.

 

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Jorge Santiago vs Vitor Belfort 

Jorge Santiago has made the most out of his opportunities after his UFC stint.  He competed and won the Strikeforce MW tourney, by defeating Sean Salmon and Trevor Prangley.  He followed that up by competing in the Sengoku MW Tourney, in which he beat Yuki Sasaki, Logan Clark, Siyar Bahadurzada, Kazuhiro Nakamura, and Kazuo Misaki.  Hes the current Sengoku MW champion and will be looking to defend his title at the end of the year for Sengoku.  Vitor Belfort also has some name value in Japan as well, having competed in numerous PRIDE bouts with the likes of Dan Henderson, Kazushi Sakuraba, Alistair Overeem, and Heith Herring.

Affliction's ability to have Fedor (PRIDE HW Champ), Mousasi (DREAM MW Champ), and Jorge Santiago (SENGOKU MW Champ) on the card would definitely pique some interest from Japan.  So, the Gomi potential signing makes some sense, and Japan would be another revenue stream for Affliction besides the American PPV purchases.  On the other hand, adding someone like Cro Cop would also give them a big boost as well.  Alsthough, we will have to take into account that Japanese PPV's get a small fraction of buys than the PPV's here in America, but increasing revenue streams is always a plus for a promotion who wants to limit the amount of losses aggregated from their previous shows.  There is also some interest in holding an event in Japan on Affliction's part (via co-promotion), so this would be a good way to break into the market as well.  Atencio gave this subtle hint in a recent Fighters Only magazine interview:

He added that Fedor-Barnett "was the fight that a lot of overseas people wanted and that I as a fan wanted to see. We will have to take it after that, each fight as it comes. Right now there are some people out there that are interested, whether they are notable opponents for Fedor or not, I don't know, we'll have to see."



Dana Stirring the Pot With Affliction?

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From FightLine, we get some interesting quotes from Tom Atencio after being asked what his thoughts were about Dana's interest of Vitor Belfort in the UFC, after the infamous TUF Finale announcement:

"[White] did say something [about Belfort]," Atencio told us about White’s recruiting tactics. "I’m talking to [Belfort’s] management, so we’re in negotiations. Where Dana came up with that, I don’t know. Maybe he’s just trying to stir the pot. That’s what he does and he does it well."

...

The conversation even swayed towards other major sports, where if an owner openly discusses wanting a player under contract with an opposing team, that owner could be fined for tampering.

"Maybe he wants to get hit with a tampering charge," Atencio jokingly told us about what he thought White’s motives were. "I just don’t know, I can’t speak for Dana. I’m sure he just wants to stir the pot, like I said."

 FightLinker has some interesting opinions on this matter:

Depending on the terms of Vitor Belfort’s contract, the UFC may indeed be opening the door to a lawsuit - not that they care. We’ve talked many times about the UFC’s army of lawyers and I don’t doubt Dana would actually be pleased to burn more of Affliction’s money in court. In the past, the UFC has held a firm "We don’t mess around with fighters under contract with other promotions", but I guess that’s out the window, at least when it comes to Affliction.

From what I have heard, Vitor apparently met with Dana in Los Angeles while Affliction and Tom Atencio were in negotiations with Vitors management, which if the contract has the correct wording, could be considering tampering, although I doubt anything would materialize since Tom seems to be joking a bit.  Just as no one was able to negotiate with Tito after leaving the UFC last year, I believe the same rule will apply to Vitor Belfort.  Even if Vitor does decide to fight for the UFC after his third Affliction fight, there will be a renegotiation period on his contract that won't allow him to compete in any upcoming UFC fights.  If Vitor signs with the UFC, it would most likely be months (maybe 2010) before he could fight for the promotion. In either case, many like MMAFanhouse seem to think that all the clues lead Vitor to the UFC.



Affliction Already Sold Over $145K in Tickets, Overeem Next For Fedor?

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Tom Atencio told Fighters Only Magazine that Affliction Trilogy has already sold over $145K worth of tickets for their August event.

Affliction's MMA wing has been dogged from day one by rumours of its impending demise, but Atencio says ticket sales for Affliction 3 are looking promising. "Ticket sales have been great, I think from the first day of sales - just through our in-house accounts and Ticketmaster - we sold over $145,000 in tickets, something like that," he said. "This card is even better than the last two cards and of course we want growth and we are putting more into our marketing. that's the plan, whether its gonna happen or not... I don't have a crystal ball, its hard to say. " "Our brand is doing extremely well and MMA as a whole is doing extremely well despite the economy so we are just moving forward and looking at how we can improve on our last event."

 He also proclaimed once again, of the great relationship he has with Strikeforce and Scott Coker and their willingness to share their fighters, as well as the possibility of Fedor vs Overeem in the future.

Asked if Strikeforce heavyweight champion Overeem might be an option given the recent co-operation between his Affliction and Strikeforce, he replied enigmatically: "We have a great relationship with Strikeforce and we are continuing that. "We share fighters with them and they share fighters with us so I see it as a long term thing that we are going to be doing with them."

 

Tom Atencio Looking To Book Another Big Fight For Trilogy

Here is his latest comments about trying to finalize the last 3 fights in the card:

8CN: Tom, give me something about the fight we haven't heard about yet.

Tom: Unfortunately I think I've laid it all out there already. I am working on a big fight that would be between two different weight classes. Big names.

 

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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I think it’s a little silly for the guy that defended DREAM Cro Cop to accuse the UFC of tampering with Belfort.

by subo on Jun 24, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You forget about the whole Randy Couture thing?

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jun 24, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He gives me enough fresh material – but that was a good one.

by subo on Jun 24, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea perhaps having Randy in an Affliction ring talking about fighting Fedor while he was still in court over his UFC contract was a bit too much.

Either way I am sure Dana had his legal ducks in a row before he went on national tv with the Vitor thing. Of course it should also be noted that you can’t ignore "jokingly in that quote or read too much into it.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fail to see where in this post anyone is defending anything.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Atencio defended DREAM Cro Cop?

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You did.

by subo on Jun 24, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean I warned everyone ahead of time something was up? Is that what you mean by “defended”. Or are you saying DREAM tampered with Cro Cop and UFC’s verbal contract when Mirko was already on a DREAM.10 flyer? LOL! Either of those are pretty funny, if thats what your insinuating.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see a short, violent night in Overeem’s future…

Keep firing Assholes!

Out out, you demons of stupidity!

by Ubernoober on Jun 24, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, against Brett Rogers.

by subo on Jun 24, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

then Rogers can be #2. I have just decided that the #2 HW spot will be for the over rated non UFC guys so Wamma will be able to keep Fedor the champ.

I wish he would come to the UFC and fight Gonzaga, Mir,Carwin and Brock. I actually think a motivated Vera could hang with Fedor for awhile.

by Riney on Jun 24, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fedor doesn’t need to fight #2 guys to stay champ. He only needs to fight top 10 guys.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jun 24, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OMG

If Rogers beats Overeem, and then gets Fedor and is the man who finally beats him it would be like when the Giants beat the Pats in the superbowl x100.

If that happened I would get so drunk that night in celebration I would end up running naked through the streets

by Flyghtt on Jun 24, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and they could really stand to take Tim off that poster, seeing as how he can’t fight and all.

by subo on Jun 24, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All good things come to those who wait.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha

Nice.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jun 24, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent Insight

Good info in this post. I wonder if people are actually reading the entire post or just making comments based on the title. Seems like the latter to me.

by Jmend255 on Jun 24, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Read the whole thing but then if there is a issue with the title being misleading that would fall on the person who posted it too.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sure you are not talking about this instance, since the title is composed of 3 questions. I am not sure how you can assume anything from reading 3 questions without reading the entire post.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just making a counterpoint to the above poster’s comment. Instead of attacking lots of people’s post with a half assed strawman perhaps it would be easier to say that “boy you and Subo don’t get along”.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

LOL, I get along with Subo.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I) have been one of the people who have said that Affliction are spending themselves into a hole, and i still feel that way. In no way am i sayin that it is a bad MMA show.

Their first show was horrid and their second show came leaps and bounds. I rather MMA in a Cage (watch the Babalu mike whitehead fight for reasons). I have supported Affliction the only way i know how i buy their product on PPV.

The main event does not intrest me so uch becuz i seen fedor walking through barnett like the automatic doors at wal mart but the Babalu/ Gegard(sp?), and the others intrest me so ill probably end up buying this one as well.

by Riley_96 on Jun 24, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It should be a much more competitive card, compared to the first two shows. Also, take into account that Barnett has a better chance at Fedor, if you consider Arlovski’s and Sylvia’s last attempts. =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you aren’t interested watching Fedor fight anybody, you have some issues.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jun 24, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

oh don’t worry ill be quite happy just to see him fight, but i believe the match its self will be one sided and a trashing by Fedor. One Fedor fight i love watching is his match up with Mark Hunt. Its not one of his high profile matches i guess but seeing how well he keeps cool even when he isnt in the best position.

One of Fedors best tools is his ability to stay calm no matter what place the other fighter puts him in. Like the AA fight he kept calm and had that Flying knee scouted and knew they AA drops his hands, other fighters would panic and not see openings yet.

I dont give Barnett much of a chance against Fedor, it will be cool to see if Barnett can get out of the first round tho.

by Riley_96 on Jun 24, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One Sided?

Have you checked out the guys record? His entire career has been one sided.

by bignerd on Jun 25, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has pulled some wins out of his ass before. When he done the fish dance he was close to over but still pulled it out, AA was getting the better of him and he won, even Mark hunt was doing but once again Fedor pulled it out.
Oh yeah randleman almost breaking his neck, Fedor is amazing to watch but im not sure who can put up the best fight. Maybe brock but i see a submission win for Fedor.
I think probably Mir would be the best fight but then again he will probably smash him too.

by Riley_96 on Jun 25, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

see* not seen

by Riley_96 on Jun 24, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dana’s public statement is not enough for a lawsuit. Mentioning an interest in Belfort is just that.

Keep in mind that AA was still under contract with the UFC when Affliction made behind the scenes advances to him. AA knew exactly what Affliction was going to offer him.

by Lynchman on Jun 24, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, all that stuff is sorta shady since its hard to regulate.

I am sure people will say it’s hypocritical that Atencio is saying it since there are those out there that think Affliction tampered with UFC fighters, but, Atencio did say it in a jokingly manner, so, I don’t think its a big deal either way.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana's not tampering with anybody.

He’s doing Vitor a favour.

Here’s how it works in baseball, in the most classic Moneyball sense.

Say you’re the A’s and you get wind that a team in your division, say the Angels, wants Mark Teixeira. You don’t really want him because he’d cost you more than you could ever afford, but you know your competition are desperate for him, and nobody else is really in the race.

So during a post-game interview you say, “We know Teixeira brings a lot to a team and he proved that today. He’s one of those guys you build a franchise around if you can get him.”

Not tampering, just complimenting.

Now the Angels lay a big fat offer on him, and he shows up in your office one day. You do him a solid and lay a fatter offer on him that you know he’s not going to take because A) you’re not a World Series contender and B) the Angels have deep pockets.

So the Angels up their offer $30m or so. Maybe you give it another go-round and see if they’ll up their cash even more.

Eventually you drop out and stick them with a fat salary they’ll never be able to move on a guy that, frankly, has played his best days already.

Vitor, meet Dana.

If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.

by Ozzz on Jun 27, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

… and Sylvia
… and Randy
… and GSP

Affliction built their whole damn roster by approaching fighters already under contract. That was the reason for the Affliction ban in the first place. Dana & Lorenzo were PISSED that Affliction was trying to poach Zuffa fighters while hanging out backstage at PPV events.

I think it is hilarious that they are getting burned by the same shady tactic.

by Steve4192 on Jun 25, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dammit Lynchman beat me to it

by banter on Jun 24, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

“Ticket sales have been great, I think from the first day of sales – just through our in-house accounts and Ticketmaster – we sold over $145,000 in tickets, something like that,”

The UFC sold about $2-3 million worth of tickets to UFC 100 the first day. Just sayin’…….

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm, UFC’s biggest event in their history…hmmmm???
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't this the biggest event in Affliction history?

And I’m guessing they sold about a million to 101 the first day.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

100 shows in the span of 15 years compared to 3 shows in the spand of a year, hmmm ???
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean 2 shows in the span of a year right?

And just for the record I would love it if Affliction stayed around, I just don’t think they will.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You get the idea.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also I think it’s funny that they are so excited with $145,000 in sales when that probably covers about 10% of Fedor’s salary. Now they only need to sell 15,000 more tickets and 250,000 PPV’s to break even!

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is afflictions last show…

Golden Boy and Trump Jr are looking to possibly start a promotion or take these pieces and re-structure – Cuban might also tag along and televise the shows.

Either way – the days of them putting on ppv caliber cards are gone.

You can see how – like I said – affliction would assign fighters to other shows to meet their commitments (din thomas, horedecki, arlovski, etc…) They even tried to outsource the 3rd show to dream as the Barnett v Fedor fight is bigger there than here – too bad dream didnt bite.

This is good for the industry long term. Affliction should use their capital to support Strikeforce and Strikeforce shouldnt have to pay an arm and a leg to get guys like Tim and Arlovski because of the stupid business practices of affliction – these kind of fighters are perfect for showtime.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Alright, everyone was wondering where you were, so I created and Affliction post to draw you back.
Worked like a charm. =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) I told you Golden Boy was going to try and stick around in MMA.
2) Golden Boy, Trump Jr, and Cuban involved in the promotion while Affliction sponsors them makes complete sense.
3) I posted about Affliction trying to do a co-promotion for DREAM.10 (along with WAMMA) and that obviously didn’t work out, although most people didn’t believe it.
4) Showtime will continue to work with Strikeforce and Affliction fighters since they need an MMA org to provide for them in terms of PPVs. Strikeforce provides the MMA material for non-PPV MMA. Also, Showitme has some pull, so I can see Arlovski and others landing in Strikeforce or the new promotion, since some of these fighters want to box as well.
5) Affliction’s last show is a bit of a vague statement. This is the last show that they may promote, but they will stick around, sponsor fighters, and still be associated with promotions.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You dont know shit… you copy and paste from other sites and hope to make sense.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha, like the Cro Cop story, huh?
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the smiley face ur sig, or do you ALWAYS put it down after disagreeing with someone so you dont look like you are getting angry

Its ok to be angry when someone says ‘you don’t know shit’!

by Well Read Idiot on Jun 26, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its like a signature, to remind everyone not to take things so seriously.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 26, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FUCK YOU

MMA is the end all to my life. Agree with me or DIE! It’s the internet for chrsts sake, this shit means the world to me. You just ruined my month.

by Riney on Jun 26, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL… just be careful you don’t get warned for that.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 26, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope they know

it was in good humor. I wouldn’t post that to people who don’t have a sense of sarcasm.

by Riney on Jun 26, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also:
You can see how – like I said – affliction would assign fighters to other shows to meet their commitments (din thomas, horedecki, arlovski, etc…)

This is not necessarily true. Thomas, Horedecki, Yvel, Rizzo, etc signed for 3 fight deals. Them fighting in Ultimate Chaos and possibly in the Trilogy show still requires one more fight from these fighters, unless they are willing to buy out the last fight. Others are on the same boat as well. Rogerio still needs another fight, etc.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Horedecki and Thomas are assigned meaning these fights count towards the obligations in the contract.

See my reply above about how you dont know shit.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said, they signed 3 fight contracts, so even if they fight in the Ultimate Chaos card, and in Trilogy, they still have one more fight left. So they will need to stick around to assign them a 3rd fight somewhere else.

Do I need to give you links to your Affliction is Done in Feb, Gina to WEC, Cro Cop verbal agreement a good thing for Zuffa, and Cung Lee posts? =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Affliction is done:

1 week after there 2nd show I said they will be looking to assign there obligations out and may put on a 3rd show as their last. Guess what happened? They have been assigning their fighters out to meet their obligations and because dream didnt bite they are putting on their last show.

Gina:

I said Strikeforce will either have to pay for Gina or Lose out. Guess what? they ended up paying. Good for them.

Crocop on the Germany card was bad for Zuffa? You were trying to spin in it as Zuffa being desperate in your warped little world.

I also said 6 months before it was first published anywhere that the WEC would be getting rid of the higher weight classes. Guess what happened?

I am also saying now that Golden Boy and Trump Jr are working on running an MMA promotion… do you see this posted anywhere? No, because you would have already copied and pasted it here if it was.

Like I said you dont know shit – all you do is copy and paste. Go back to dreaming about how Ecko is buying elitexc and all the other shit that you dream up.

Weight classes are being added to the UFC – pretty soon you’ll see why.

So continue you’re copying and pasting but leave the high level discussions to the adults.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Faber/Brown/Torres

gonna get paid. I think I posted something about this couple of weeks ago.

by Riney on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their not going to the UFC bro…

WEC will have the best lightweights in the world as they do now. emphasis on LIGHTWEIGHTs.

UFC is having a problem with too many stars and not enough belts.

- The 3 round main events will be coming to an end.

- recycling stars will be easier (see couture losing to chuck twice and reemerging as a bigger star at heavyweight, etc…)

- more super fights (champions vs champions).

- Increasing the competitive advantage the UFC and WEC have by many fold.

- Competition wont be able to keep up.

- More ROBUST talent pool for increase in shows.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn

poor Faber/Brown/Torres. These kids need to be paid. WEC going to start a PPV push?

by Riney on Jun 24, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are going to try, but it doesn’t look good since Faber is out until the end of the year, or early next year.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are paid.

compare the last wec to the Ultimate fight night? Look at what Sanchez got and what Faber got.

People are mistakenly comparing Faber to a GSP where they should be comparing Faber to one of the guys who main event a fight night.

PPV will come. A different reality show will take the place of the tapout show and with the new talent the WEC will have with the Zuffa shuffle that will happen soon, and successful penetration in the hispanic markets it will be Robust enough to carry ppv’s.

Right now pacman is the biggest draw in boxing and he fights at 140lbs.

Zuffa owns the best fighters in every weight class – and this thing hasnt even hit close to its peak… so yeah ppv for the wec will come in time.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is

excellent news. I always wondered when the push into the hispanic market would start. They are rapid boxing fans.

by Riney on Jun 24, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They already mentioned a few months back that they are looking to put on a show in Mexico, but the whole breaking into the Hispanic market part has been Bellator’s from the beginning.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bellator is on espn deportes which is in less than 6 million homes.

WEC is on Cadena Tres which is one of the free access channels available in every home that has the NBA, sopranos, etc…

Its like comparing hdnet to the “WB” channel in the USA… Sorry, you lose.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not comparing what channels they are on, but the concept of breaking into the Latino market. Not anything we haven’t heard before.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So a new 195 lbs. weightclass? Or a cruiserweight?

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jun 24, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I’m interpreting this correctly, and if it actually comes to pass, WEC is going to have a hell of a time paying BJ Penn’s salary. I mean, they’re really going to have to rely on that untapped Latino audience.

by An Old Friend on Jun 25, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your interpretation skills are pretty good.

If this goes into effect as anticipated and not delayed BJ’s next fight will be his last at 155.

There will be a new weight class for the Koscheks, diegos, and BJ’s of the world.

The welterweight limit will change.

There will be a new weight class for the Rashads, Franklins, possibly chuck, and hendersons of the world.

If more heavy, heavyweights come on board the Randy’s of the world will have a new weight class. Forrest Griffin will have another option as well if his next run doesn’t prove fruitful.

If youre a popular fighter and good enough to beat everyone in the division except the champ then either move up or down a weight class and give new life to your career.

Eventually the WEC will have the best at 155 – and all this stupid talk of the wec guys wanting to jump to the UFC will stop as the 162 or 165 limit will be too steep.

At the lower weight classes of 155 and down – maybe a few years from now – There will be a weight class every five bounds because the percentage will warrant it… so theres enough depth and width potential for the WEC.

- No more 3 round main events…

- Extend the life span of popular fighters.

- Diversify so you’re not so dependent on just a handful of champs.

- Start giving title fights on the overseas shows.

- add additional barriers to competitors (competing with just a few weight classes is hard enough but now trying to compete will be even harder).

The UFC is growing much faster than initially anticipated and Zuffas got a massive warchest so expect the guns to come out.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure your bullet point list is full of all positives. No more 3 round main events and title fights overseas are completely positive. Diversify your weight classes can also negatively effect the status of your champions. Too many champions make it harder to build up notoriety and fans do start to notice when fighters are jumping weight classes to cherry pick titles which cheapens the belt.

“Extend the life span of popular fighters”. That’s really the heart of the shift. There are no replacements for Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei, Randy, etc. Brock and GSP are the only champs who exceeded the popularity of the previous champion and Brock is still on very shaky ground. Unable to replace these fighters, or in the case of Franklin types “advance the fighter” the move is now to extend the interest in these fighters by watering down the competition with more weight classes. I guess it was the next natural move after already dropping several fighters to lower weight classes to re-peak interest.

Not faulting the move, it’s a definite short term gain but could also be a long term liability.

by bignerd on Jun 25, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wasnt supposed to happen for a few years – but things have picked up to a point no one anticipated.

As far as watering down the champions… this is a real negative but the fact that you can “engineer” more champion vs champion superfights will more than make up for that.

Dana was totally against this until he realized you could engineer a hell of alot more “superfights” this way.

The problem is the short term transition which is a headache but a necessary one… long term this baby is ALL GRAVY.

Another big factor is now being able to recycle talent – and not just the superstar talent. MAcdonald could move to 195 and either find his sweet spot as a bonafide contender or be fodder to create another 195lb contender.

same with luter and all the other guys who make names in the UFC but cant quite cut it at the top in a specific weight class.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 5:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Munoz,franklin,wanderlei,evans, maybe even machida would be a perfect fit at 195..

you’ve posted a hella lot of inside info here.. thanks a lot dude… Aren’t you considering making it an actual post so that more people could see it? :)

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 25, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s all gonna come out bro either during the announcement of the “REAL NEWS” or shortly there after.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but it would cool if BE would have the scoop..

since you really first posted it here before anyone of those mma sites even got a sniff of it..

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 25, 2009 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh and im not forcing you or anything.. it's cool if you dont want to.

i just thought it would be cool if you posted it here.. BE gets the scoop, and we get more details from you. haha. :)

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 25, 2009 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is not the big “Announcement” so really nothing to scoop.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so something bigger is gonna come? dammit logic. now it’s you being the cocktease! ahhahaha.

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 25, 2009 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank goodness for you logic

Kuwabara Kuwabara

by J. B. Maddox on Jun 25, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he is the reason i started checking comments regularly here

by Gerrymanderer on Jun 25, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you mean it will get like boxing, with a bunch of weight classes that MMA fans didn’t want? =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the benefits outlined above, but do they outweigh negatives.

By my count that is 13 weight divisions, 7 in the WEC 125 to 155 with 5 pounds between them and 6 in the UFC 165 to 265 with 10 pounds between them. Not as bad as the 17 in boxing but fairly close.

First question, will it be possible for zuffa to maintain the top fighters in each of those divisions?

Also, it looks likely that there will always be at least two other organisations outside of zuffa putting on compelling match ups. Right now there are four, Strikeforce, Affliction, DREAM, and Sengoku, but that appears unsustainable. If one is to take WEC and UFC as a whole, with the expansion you are forecasting there would be 13 champions. We could be faced with a situation where in 2 years time we have 39 different world champions from good quality leagues. That is not counting a few interim belts thrown in for good measure. Does this sound like the giant cluster fuck that is boxing right now?

Am I wrong in saying that short term (1 to 4 years) this strategy will generate a pile of cash for MMA but long term (10 years) it may lead to stagnation as has happened in boxing. Is it a matter of zuffa saying a bird in the hand is better then two in the bush.

It will also lead to so many annoying arguments on forums like can the undisputed Sengoku 161 and 4/3 pound champion of the world beat the winner of junior-super-light-welterweight interim world championship unification bout in the UFC. Although, on second thoughts, I would like to hear Bruce Buffer announce that fight.

by nidge on Jun 25, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree. More weight classes make me a sad panda.

by cyph on Jun 25, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. I’m very hesitant about additional weight classes. Sounds like the ABC’s new rules last year made more of an impression than anyone thought.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jun 25, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exaactly!

This is what people DIDNT want to happen, if I am not mistaken.
Even Dana said this himself and bashed boxing for it.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have great points and these are actually the exact reasons this road was shelved.

The reason it didnt and doesnt work with boxing is because you have so many different promoters with so many different sanctioning bodies.

Right now Zuffa owns more than 90% of the marketshare and the astonishing thing is as the market pie is increasing so is Zuffas market share.

Zuffa already owns most of the best fighters in every weight class in both the UFC and the WEC.

Will Zuffa own ALL the best fighters? does MLB own ALL the best baseball players? Does the NBA? No, but they own most. Its the same case with Zuffa and will continue to be the case.

The expansion of the wec weights are not anytime soon.

As far as public confusion. Its easier for the public to know personalities rather than weight classes. so all you really have are personalities plus a title.

People are more confused by a fighter they dont know versus a weight class they dont know.

The ones who do follow weight classes only go a few deep anyway so its easier for them to know 6 or 7 weight classes and 2 to 4 guys deep than 4 weight classes 6 or 7 guys deep.

Alot of guys beyond top 3 or 4 get lost in the marketing shuffle.

So, yes more weight classes has negatives but the positives and the ability to mitigate the negatives to a certain point FAR OUTWAY it.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

White was asked what he thought of the idea of adding more weight classes to MMA, which was proposed by rival promoter Gary Shaw of EliteXC last weekend. Shaw says he wants to add weight classes in the interests of safety for the fighters. The UFC president disagrees and told reporters so in typical Dana White fashion.
 
"Gary Shaw is a f——— moron. One of the reasons the fans love UFC is because there’s only five weight classes and you know who is the real champion in each class. The stuff he wants to do in MMA are exactly the same thing they’ve done to ruin boxing. Five years ago he was laughing at MMA, and now he wants to get in on it. He lost every fighter he ever had in boxing and he’s not going anywhere in MMA, believe me."

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as the other orgs – they are needed.

A better question to “will zuffa be able to continue to get these fighters” is who can afford to continue to operate moving forward and at what level.

Like I said a warchest is available and the Math will be in place. In general being a contender in the UFC will be more than the max the other orgs could profitably pay to be their champ. Plus you have a huge upside where if you become the UFC champ or a big name you’ll make 3 to 6plus times that.

So even though you may have a “fedor” type here or there the vast majority will migrate just like the vast majority migrate from the minor leagues.

Now before anyone starts yapping about well these other orgs will start making more money and then they’ll be able to compete better money wise.

Ill share one metric that makes this virtually impossible:

90% of the “MMA” fans created by any promotion in North America (from other than a Zuffa product) ends up becoming a “UFC” Fan.

Conversely

Less than 5% of “UFC” fans created by Zuffa becomes an “MMA” fan.

If you understand this one KEY metric you will understand why it’s futile to compete rather than “exist profitably”

If you understand this metric you’ll see that if strikeforce can get 200K payperview buys that means they would have had to “CREATE” around 120k NEW BUYERS which roughly 108k buyers will end up becoming UFC buyers as well.

So even though Strikeforces revenue increases so does Zuffa’s but with almost no added cost for Zuffa making it a wash or even better for Zuffa.

Have you ever seen those superheroes where every time you blast them they got stronger and bigger? every advancement feeds them?

Its sort of the same thing here.

Strikeforce on showtime is benefiting Zuffa more than Strikeforce. The more Showtime converts their boxing fans and viewers to “MMA” fans the more convert to “UFC” fans.

It’s like swimming upstream. Strikeforce will exist profitably though because if they dont another promotion will, and you will see the same thing transpire in Japan.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I take your point that Zuffa does not fear the confusion caused by 40 odd world champs as if what you say is correct Zuffa will just outspend any competitor and make their business unprofitable if they even try to compete. Thus creating a situation where only a portion of the fan base will be educated enough to get confused in the first place by all the champs as other organisations won’t be big enough for casuals to become interested.

But.

Promoting the UFC through personalities will make this a success short term most definitely. However my concern is long term. What happens when the UFC only has 3-4 personalities that resonate with the PPV buying public in the US? When this happens, and purely on the basis of probability it eventually will at some time in the future, I foresee a situation similar to boxing, eventual stagnation. Right now there are a handful of boxers with personality that can back it up in the ring. Instead of watching them face the talent in there division, people wait for them to fight each other. If this happens in mma the sport will be destroyed. The sporting element will be lost; therefore the soul of mma, like it is with boxing, will be gone.

By zuffa introducing a bunch of weight classes, and fighters flying up and down weight classes to get title shots or to have ‘super fights’ because they have the personality to attract viewers it will eventually undermine the sport. The more Okamis that are left waiting in the wings the more you piss off the loyal base of fans who buy cards headlined by Franklin and Henderson. They may not be the main source of profit but they are the life blood that will keep the sport ticking over when the fickle masses get distracted for a while.

Dana White has always said that he is out there to do the best for the sport. Boxing promoters probably thought they weren’t hurting the sport when they created division after division for profit. A 195 weight class and a ten pound differential between divisions as far as it should stretch. But to start going to every 5 pounds will most certainly end up undermining the sporting aspect of mma. I will say it again, zuffa is taking the logic that it is better to have a bird in the hand then two in the bush. I think if all happens as planned over the next 10-20 years it will undermine the sport. That’s my two cent.

That is an interesting metric, dare I ask how you came to that number? It is quite telling and something I would well believe from my experience.

And on a side note what do you think is the logic (no pun intended) behind keeping the UFC and the WEC separate? The illusion of choice to the consumer or that it will just confuse the casual fan to see loads of tiny people running around a cage or option C.

by nidge on Jun 26, 2009 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That said, the UFC can mitigate some of those problems by opening up most of those new weights in the WEC. UFC has 5 weight divisions now: 155, 170, 185, 205, and 265. Under this new system it seems like it’ll be something akin to 165, 175, 185, 195, 205, and 265. That’s only one more division, so it probably won’t be that huge of a drain on the casual fan’s attention.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jun 26, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Gary Shaw is a f——— moron. One of the reasons the fans love UFC is because there’s only five weight classes and you know who is the real champion in each class. The stuff he wants to do in MMA are exactly the same thing they’ve done to ruin boxing. Five years ago he was laughing at MMA, and now he wants to get in on it. He lost every fighter he ever had in boxing and he’s not going anywhere in MMA, believe me.”

-Dana White
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 26, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It didnt work in boxing because there was really no system or mechanism to proactively create stars or personalities… everyone would just wait until someone rises to the top.

Since all to most of the best fighters are under one roof this is more manageable and the ability to engineer this proactively is easier.

example:

Nate Marquart would be a bigger star because he wouldnt be drowned out by some of the other fighters in the division… etc. He would have co-main evented more shows giving him more face time on the countdowns, etc…

UFC is now at a point where there are “vacuums” for stars and personalities and this will only improve. If a big name retires or leaves there’s a vacuum someone else will fill.

The max weight classes the UFC will ever have is 7. That’s just 2 more than present. The increase in Market, Fighters, Shows more than warrant and absorb this… even at levels a year ago this wouldn’t be a problem.

WEC is no where near ready to increase weight classes beyond the current scheme. But you will have the same ceiling in the future which the market conditions will dictate
 
The risk you’re talking about I see happening in only one scenario:

The popularity of the sport dies save for the hardcores. in this scenario the extra weight classes will be the last thing on anyone’s mind.

by mmalogic on Jun 26, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HAHAHA
I am also saying now that Golden Boy and Trump Jr are working on running an MMA promotion… do you see this posted anywhere? No, because you would have already copied and pasted it here if it was.

You Mean Affliction Entertainment is Done

Highly Doubt Affliction Clothing is done.
Too many "ultimate fighter" fans would commit suicide.
:)

I also hear Golden Boy may be involved in some sort of purchase after the third show, yada, yada, yada. I guess we will see what happens.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 29, 2009 5:48 PM PST reply reply actions actions 0 recs

Golden Boy aint buying shit.

by mmalogic on Jan 29, 2009 5:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

straight from your Affliction is Done post.
=)

I also hear Golden Boy may be involved in some sort of purchase after the third show, yada, yada, yada. I guess we will see what happens.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 29, 2009 5:48 PM PST reply reply actions actions 0 recs

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you outright said gina wasnt going to strikeforce and had a bunch of the locals here hyped about it. a couple days later, they announced her and cyborg. oops.

trying to spin the crocop deal was hilarious. ill flat quit the internet if the ufc doesnt pay him. LOL.

calling that the wec would lose higher weight classes was a brave move. here’s one; the wec will at some point in the next 3 years cease to exist and will be incorporated into the ufc. now i too can be an insider!

your noncopy-paste stuff is great though. i mean, it takes guts to say that the ufc is gonna be running international shows every month and have a roster of 400 fighters, or that they have contacts in japan that are gonna get a show done there this year.

by nigelzackit on Jun 25, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and thats it. you throw lots of stuff against the wall, something will stick. everything else was just as certain and its not happening or it will ‘in the future’. hell, look at this incredible insider insight now -

If this goes into effect as anticipated and not delayed BJ’s next fight will be his last at 155.

bj is still obsessed with gsp and wants to fight him again. he might jump to welter even if there is no new 160-162 weight class. not tough, entirely likely. i think ive even said this.

There will be a new weight class for the Koscheks, diegos, and BJ’s of the world.

if it doesnt happen, he will argue it fell through. not his fault.

The welterweight limit will change.

same here.

There will be a new weight class for the Rashads, Franklins, possibly chuck, and hendersons of the world.

rich didnt seem all that expectant of a 195 class and neither do i. i really want to see chuck try and cut down under 205 though. dude is huge for a light heavyweight. will fall through. not his fault. biz.

If more heavy, heavyweights come on board the Randy’s of the world will have a new weight class. Forrest Griffin will have another option as well if his next run doesn’t prove fruitful.

depends on more giants, easily a “fell through” excuse. not his fault.

If youre a popular fighter and good enough to beat everyone in the division except the champ then either move up or down a weight class and give new life to your career.

an insider needs to tell you this? its been true in these sports since bob fitzsimmons.

Eventually the WEC will have the best at 155 – and all this stupid talk of the wec guys wanting to jump to the UFC will stop as the 162 or 165 limit will be too steep.

does anyone really believe theyre gonna transition the lightweights and out of the ufc? cmon, show of hands. i bet you we forget this thread happened in 3 months.

At the lower weight classes of 155 and down – maybe a few years from now – There will be a weight class every five bounds because the percentage will warrant it… so theres enough depth and width potential for the WEC.

they keep delaying the 125lbers, and this is set in the far future with heavy dependence on the rest of what came earlier. would “fall through”. not his fault.

No more 3 round main events…

anyone here want to take a bet that we see a 3 round main event again in 2010? any takers?

Extend the life span of popular fighters.

guys who are shot are still gonna be shot going up a weight class. that wont change peoples opinion. guys like hughes and liddell though arent normal guys. theyre superstars and theyll draw for as long as they can be pushed into a cage. liddell would sell 300000 ppvs in a wheelchair.

Diversify so you’re not so dependent on just a handful of champs.

does anyone think that if you have 10 weight class champions theyll all be draws? or bigger draws than the nonchampions right now? like, would franklin/silva for some supermiddleweight belt have drawn an extra 150,000 people to the buy button on their tv?

Start giving title fights on the overseas shows.

already happened numerous times.

add additional barriers to competitors (competing with just a few weight classes is hard enough but now trying to compete will be even harder).

nonsensical. more weight classes means a need for more fighters and better places for them to fight and be competitive. jason mcdonald isnt in the ufc anymore, yet hes an example of a guy mmalogic brings up who could compete at 195. id say thats removing a barrier to compete if we get guys who werent good enough at smaller weights back in to fight again, but with love handles.

by nigelzackit on Jun 25, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know man.

I’d be on your side if he regularly throws out a lot of stuff. But he doesn’t.

I dont know if you were here at the time he made his old posts, But has delivered. So I wouldn’t be surprised if this happens.

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 25, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he throws out plenty when he decides to appear, which he picks and chooses. note that he never bothered to jump into that crocop discussion when mirko up and left like he said would never happen LOL.

half of it is obvious stuff but with big words. the other half ends up being outrageous or purposely obscure statements. the combination of the two along with the cognitive dissonance of people to forget what he says when its doesnt come true seems to have given him a free pass to act like a douchebag to people and call them children.

by nigelzackit on Jun 25, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Serious question (cause I’m not sure and I’ve gone back and forth on this in my mind): Are you an Alan Conceicao/Dead and Restless/D. Capitated sock puppet? If not, you two are really operating on the same wavelength.

by An Old Friend on Jun 25, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, D. Capitated. How I yearned to never see that name again.

Old Friend, you have to understand that Zuffa is evil. Dana White, as well. Therefore, they mustn’t ever do anything good, lest people think they’re not all bad. See?

by subo on Jun 25, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and a great example of the kind of hot rumors hes good for is attached.

by nigelzackit on Jun 25, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re right, i’m not an inside guy…

You seem frustrated because you get confused at the big words I use and high level concepts I discuss. Its not your fault…

You see my comments are designed so only people with certain IQ levels understand.

by mmalogic on Jun 25, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Vitor signs with the UFC, Atencio will be the last one to know.

Keep firing Assholes!

Out out, you demons of stupidity!

by Ubernoober on Jun 24, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Its pique not peek.

by Gerrymanderer on Jun 24, 2009 8:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.
I will fix that typo.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana's Nightmare?

If Affliction closes up shop and Strikeforce obtains the full use of Afflictions fighters would that be good for the ufc? Strikeforce is cuurently putting good shows together now.

by KING FEDOR on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, assuming the UFC can go after the fighters they want (Vitor, Fedor, etc.) and probably get the majority of them I don’t see how that’s a bad thing for them. Strikeforce can’t afford to pay Fedor $1+ million a fight but the UFC can.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That will be very good. There’s only 2 or three fighters Zuffa wants anyway.

Strikeforce is here to stay. The market needs to normalize where guys like Tim Sylvia and Arlovski can be reasonably affordable to a company like strikeforce.

The Market needs a strikeforce.

In the interim affliction does more harm than good… but the market fixes all these problems with time.

People will see in the next 6 to 12 months with a clearer view of where things are headed.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree with that, Affliction created a very unrealistic market bubble for a lot of these guys and now many of them have almost priced themselves out of the sport because of it. No one else in the business (including the UFC) is going to pay Tim Sylvia, Andre Arlovski, Matt Lindland, Paul Buentello or Ben Rothwell that kind of money in the future. Heck for a couple of those guys it’s doubtful anyone else could even if they wanted to. Of course that flaw also appears to be the fatal one for Affliction, you just can’t have those kinds of expenses as a starting promotion.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly…

Zuffa doesnt want sylvia or arlovski but they would make as a great addition to a strikeforce card. Right now an Arlovski is worth more to strikeforce than a Jake Shields. Jake Shields will be in the UFC if he keeps winning.

Game Theory always wins.

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strikeforce obtaining Affliction’s crappy contracts wouldn’t be Dana’s nightmare it would be Coker’s. What good is a lot of bloated contracts that Strikeforce can’t afford to pay?

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The contracts would be expired by then.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which further kills the point King Fedor was trying to make. These guys aren’t just going to go to Strikeforce they are going to go onto the free market looking for a new contract. Why would that be Dana’s nightmare?

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wouldnt’ in terms of money since the unrealistic bubble that Affliction created will burst. But, this was the case whether they folded or not since they weren’t going to offer those fighters those type of pay days anymore, except for maybe Fedor.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It won’t burst until these guys realize how overblown it was and back down on their asking prices. I’m sure a lot of these guys really think they are worth this much money now and aren’t going to back down off those prices until they starve out a bit. Heck for Sylvia and Arlovski crashing like they did may bring them back to market reality much quicker than with some of the rest of them.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt Lindland, Arlovski, or Sylvia will be getting their original pay.
I would like to see the UFC give Vitor 200K – 300K per fight, LOL.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that they probably won’t get a fraction of their Affliction pay out on the open market, even the guys who didn’t hurt themselves with loses. It might take Lindland a while for that to sink in.

by who me on Jun 25, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that PPV (and cable/satellite, for that matter) was mostly insignificant in Japan. And Fedor/Barnett aside, these aren’t’ the sorts of fights that are going to attract a lot of casual interest in Japan, despite the success of the participants in Dream and WVR. I do think that history of success in Japan will help Affliction, but more with American fans of Japanese MMA. In other words, assuming I’m not way off base, I can’t imagine that any of these fights were made with a Japanese audience in mind.

by An Old Friend on Jun 24, 2009 10:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was under the same impression too, Japan is different than the US in that. In the US the money is made off PPV but in Japan the real money comes from the networks.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I explained that in my post, but any positive PPV revenue from Japan or Russia would only help Affliction, who got nothing outside of the UFC last time. That’s why it helps that Sengoku is currently continuing the PPV aspect of Japanese MMA as it grows in Japan. Of course, the TV deal is where they make most of the money because of sponsors. Sponsors like Don Quijote will keep some promotions around for a while.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I explained that in my post, but any positive PPV revenue from Japan or Russia would only help Affliction, who got nothing outside of the UFC last time.

Huh?

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He meant North America not UFC, common mistake :D

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha…thats what happens when you reply all the time to someone with ufc in his name.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine, but that still means that the premise of this post—“Affliction sets up matches with a (potential) Japanese audience in mind”—is flawed. Again, I think the more accurate hypothesis is something more like “Affliction sets up matches with American fans of Japanese MMA in mind.” Which has kind of been a big part of their strategy all along.

by An Old Friend on Jun 25, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but they didn’t make it available to Japanese fans until now.
I never mentioned that they are putting this card for Japanese MMA fans.

It is for American fans, but they can easily add one or 2 more fighters and it cater to the Japanese fans as well, which they did with Mousasi, Santiago, and trying to get Gomi on it as well.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of those guys except Gomi are draws in Japan (and he was never a particularly big deal). They may elicit some interest from the hardcore fan, but surely those folks were already interested due to the main event. I can’t imagine there’s anyone in Japan who would be persuaded to check this out just because Santiago or Mousasi are fighting. Cro Cop, maybe (i’m guessing the opponent would matter).

BTW, I wasn’t implying that you were saying that all these matches were made for the benefit of Japanese fans—just that some of them were. And I still think that’s totally wrong, unless Atencio, et. al., are worse businessmen than anyone suspected.

by An Old Friend on Jun 25, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only hard cores watch MMA in Japan at the moment anyways, unless there is a freak fight, Akiyama because he is a heel, or until Ishii fights.

My point was that Atencio is building a card with top fighters that will appease the American fans (since Affliction fans are mostly hardcore fans anyways) and the Japanese fans. The only problem was that they never made their events available outside of North America. I think they showed it on Bravo in the UK and 1 or 2 more places. It just makes sense to make this card available in Japan.

I also think that Fedor vs Barnett is a pretty big fight in Japan (probably more than it is in America). Gomi is a fighter that can add a lot to the card for both American fans and Japanese fans, so his addition would make sense either or.

They aren’t doing things solely for Japan or Russia, etc, but if they can make some coin (no matter how much), they should take advantage of the product they are offering.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So it’s basically the same as HDNet showing Dream or WVR cards. That’s a much more modest/reasonable position than the “Japan Key to Affliction Trilogy?” headline.

by An Old Friend on Jun 25, 2009 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Affliction does not get any money outside of NA.

M1 has the international broadcasting rights. That was part of the Fedor deal.

by Lynchman on Jun 26, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes sense, since the news of the Affliction card being in Japan come from an M-1 source. Which leads to the question, which countries will the Affliction PPV be available to?

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 26, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jesus

They fucked Affliction good there.

by subo on Jun 26, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Really

No money is really made outside of NA.
=)

Especially when the first two events were not even offered in Japan, etc.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 26, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although, I am not positive that not having broadcasting rights is the full story here. HDNet has the American broadcasting rights of the undercard and replay, but Affliction will make the money off of the PPV and whatever deal they made with HDNet.

All interesting, though.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 26, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rather, Affliction bent over to get Fedro.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jun 26, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im with you on this one.. i can’t think of a logical reason behind showing Trilogy on SkyPerfect for Affliction. Do they think Fedor will draw tons of buys from the Japanese?

by sadface on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, but any that they will get will be an added revenue stream that they did not have in their previous two cards.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it’s not a significant added revenue stream then it’s just a dixie cup dumped into a empty swimming pool, they won’t make much of anything off Japanese PPV buys, particularly after they split the revenue with SkyPerfect. It’s good news but nothing of any serious note.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that, but how much more are they hoping they recieve via Japan? They did roughly 200k for DoR. I can’t imagine them sniffing 500k even if they add in the Japanese market.

by sadface on Jun 24, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think their goal is to get 300K buys from Japan.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they would be happy with 30K

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would almost pay for Paul Buentello.

by who me on Jun 25, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They didnt do 200k… the real numbers are out now.

They didnt even break 100k

by mmalogic on Jun 24, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then I ask again.. what is the point of offering Trilogy on Japanese PPV?

by sadface on Jun 24, 2009 11:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well they are desperate for money, and then there is that Fedor may very well end up back in Japan after this is over so M-1 wouldn’t mind any bump in attention from there.

by who me on Jun 24, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because Affliction is bleeding so much money they need every nickel they can get.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

by ufc4 on Jun 24, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

enjoyed the piece

I hadnt realized the japan connection until now. I know nothing of the PPV system there but this HAS to be a draw?

that said, whats a realistic # of buys really?

by Gerrymanderer on Jun 25, 2009 1:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They never release those over there, so, it is really tough estimate.
We would need to know how well Sengoku has been doing, etc.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is another reason why I like supremacy's posts..

Cause Mmalogic comes out and gives us a ton of inside info. I actually hope he makes a detailed post so we can get more news. :)

by Anton Tabuena on Jun 25, 2009 3:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha...

Worked like a charm, indeed.

Alright, everyone was wondering where you were, so I created and Affliction post to draw you back.
Worked like a charm. =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 24, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not quite, your topic was mmalogic’s second post aft the 2 week hiatus.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jun 25, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was there a need to point out technicalities here?
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just following your example, you love to go on and on about timing.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jun 25, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever suits you.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 25, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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