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Technically Speaking: Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos vs. Gina Carano

Gina-carano-kelly-kobold_mediumAugust 15th is a little under two months away, but there is already a hot buzz surrounding the women's MMA scene. Strikeforce has managed to line up potentially one of the most anticipated matchups of the year in Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos vs. Gina "Conviction" Carano. It'll also be the first women's MMA matchup to receive main event treatment under a major MMA promotion, and it will likely become a historical battle on the women's MMA front.

One of the growing issues that I've noticed popping up around the MMA blogosphere after the announcement has revolved around the technical aspects of Gina Carano's striking game vs. Cristiane Santos' aggression and power striking. The general consensus is that Gina's striking is much more crisp and calculated while Santos' striking resembles that of Wanderlei Silva's hayday in PRIDE. She throws powerful overhands, and she's able to work the Muay Thai clinch effectively to punish opponents.

Joshua Stein over at MMAOpinion.com gives a little insight as to his view that Cyborg is potentially being overlooked in this battle because of the view that she isn't as technical as Gina:

While I’ll almost inevitably discuss the difference in technical skills between Santos and Carano leading up to the fight, which is still two months away, it’s worth acknowledging that Santos is hardly any less technical than Carano. It’s not as though she steps into a brawling gameplan in her fights. She makes full use of the Eight Points of Contact thai philosophy and knows how to use range control and establish an effective clinch (and, more impressively, manipulate her opponent’s posture in the Thai plum, which is tough to do against top level opponents).

Still, the words of the old Public Enemy song apply. "Don’t believe the hype." Santos is hardly any less technical than Carano. Perhaps there’s something to be said for the patience displayed by Gina in many of her fights, but there’s also something to be said for the complete pursuit of ones opponent, and attempting to deliver punishment at all costs. Santos does have a tendency to flair the elbows once she’s delivering punishment, but it’s also true that she works a technical game until creating that opening. So, watch her fights and judge for yourself, but don’t accept, at face value, that Cyborg is a fighter who has built her career on athletic prowess and decisive size advantages, it’s not a clear cut, objective statement.

While his argument isn't wrong, I'm sitting in a different boat. I've watched a lot of Gina Carano's earlier fights within her MMA career and her Muay Thai career, and I'm confident in saying she's more technical than Santos in specific areas.

I think Carano has the edge in the striking department over Cyborg if we're talking about which fighter has a much more technical stand-up game. Carano throws solid, straight combinations with kicks. She doesn't tend to load up her hands, and relies more on quantity with speed and accuracy vs. powerful shots. In every single Cyborg fight, she loads her hands up tremendously for the kill, and her earlier fights are easily comparable a bar brawl. I wouldn't fault Cyborg for those fights however. Her powerful strikes were able to daze opponents, and she was simply moving in for the kill.

There are other arguments that could be made as well. Cyborg does come from a camp that is notorious for molding super aggressive beasts for MMA. Wanderlei Silva and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua were both ultra-aggressive, and we can attribute much of their success in PRIDE to the fact that they overwhelmed opponents vs. technically picking them apart. Wanderlei showed glimmers of his technically sound Muay Thai attributes, and "Shogun" Rua has shown those same glimmers along with a formidable technical ground game. Santos is probably a technician in the Muay Thai clinch, but it's tough to say if she'll ever get to display those attributes against a game Gina Carano.

When asked the question whether Carano's technical stand-up can down the powerful Santos, I'd easily give a positive answer. The only problem is that technical aspects of someone's skill set aren't the deciding factor. I'm sure Wanderlei took on more technical strikers within his career, yet blasted through those opponents with ease. Patience is something that can be your worst nightmare in the cage with an animal like a Chute Box fighter, and Carano does exhibit that kind of patience. The difference here is that she can also be the aggressor.

In any case, I've come to the firm conclusion that Carano does, in fact, have the more technical striking acumen, but does that truly mean anything? Sure, it'll give Carano the edge standing... on paper. As we all know, paper doesn't hold much weight. Paper is the sole reason why I still have hope the Chicago Cubs won't blow a "guaranteed" playoff berth. Technically speaking, this should be a classic war that MMA fans should be looking forward to watching. I know I am.

Poll
Who is more technical in the stand-up game?
Gina Carano
626 votes
Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos
224 votes

850 votes | Poll has closed

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

Comment 24 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I think that Gina’s biggest concern in this fight should be her defensive wrestling/escaping from a bottom position. Baszler is a good grappler, had Cyborg on the ground, and got flat mugged. And Gina Carano is not Shayna Baszler.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jun 23, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Gina is more technical but Cyborg has been training harder.

Keep firing Assholes!

Out out, you demons of stupidity!

by Ubernoober on Jun 23, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Gina can be technical all day – Cyborg is going to fucking maul her.

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 23, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Couldn't agree with you more.

At 1st I thought Gina would win it off of sheer skill. Then I watched more of Cyborgs fights. I then realized that Gina will need one of these to win.

by Damon O. on Jun 23, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice write up.

I think Cyborg is more powerful in the stand up but more technical in her ground game than Gina.

by Jmend255 on Jun 23, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

BBBHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gosh-Darnit! The less of these photos the better. Never have I been more excited and terrified of an upcoming weigh-in.

Seriously though, Cyborg by testosterone.

by Lewish on Jun 23, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

This picture shocked me...

Simply titled “Family”……Not sure if they’re hers or his….

by Damon O. on Jun 23, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can understand why people think that Carano is more technical but I also think that she’ll be the first to wilt under pressure, esp when getting hit in the face by someone as big or bigger than her..

by pr0cs on Jun 23, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I get both points of view and I can see both happening but I think Gina will come out on top via decision. Cyborg will fail to KO her in the first 3 minutes and will gas after that. She’s definitely a physical specimen but whether she has the endurance to maintain that frame is a different story. She might even win the first round but I’ve seen enough muay thai and MMA fights from Gina to think she won’t go down in the first.

by Ahhhoki on Jun 23, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I expect Gina to beat her up badly standing. Cyborg just leaves so many openings, and her style is only going to work against girls she can easily overwhelm. It’s easy to swing hard and wildly when your opponent doesn’t swing back.

Cyborg has a significant advantage on the ground though, and if she’s willing to go there I think she can definitely take this.

The appropriate strategy for Gina is sprawl and brawl, and to use her check left hook. Every time Cyborg throws a right hand she takes it straight back and brings it back way too low, she’s wide open for a left hook almost every time she lunges in, and I suspect Randy will see the same thing and orient Gina’s gameplan around it.

The biggest problem for Gina is she likes getting into firefights. She could easily get sucked into one, and in a war this is a 50/50 fight. I think the deciding factor though will be Gina’s footwork and skill standing. She is much more technical than Cyborg, and not just that, she’s a much better striker, and she’s beat better strikers.

by Michael Rome on Jun 23, 2009 8:05 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

That’s one thing people never bring up when talking about Cyborg …. we have never seen how she fares against a fellow striker. She has spent her entire stateside career beating up on grapplers who had striking skills that ranged from pathetic to barely adequate. With Gina, we have seen her go toe to toe with dangerous strikers and completely throw them off their game. Is Cyborg capable of doing the same?

I think this fight is going to look a lot like Carano-Young, with Gina using her teep to keep Cyborg from closing the distance and enabling Gina to dictate the timing in the striking game. I expect Cyborg will be very frustrated after a round of eating push kicks to the gut whenever she tries to initiate offense and straight jabs to the grille whenever she tries to counter.

by Steve4192 on Jun 23, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The post linked by Leland also just says it’s not true without providing any real argument. Of course it’s true Gina is more technical. The fact that she uses the 8 points of contact thai philosophy is a slogan, not an argument.

Take a look at what she does when Akano is backing up. Some of her punches were so wild they were not even close to landing. Of course, it was easy to stalk Akano.

She still seems like a pretty great fighter. She beat the shit out of Shayna Baszler, who is no joke. It will be nice to see her challenged in her prime, given her style she always has the chance to knock someone out.

People really thought Kaitlin Young would beat Gina up and the fight was a complete blowout for Gina with like 1 week of training. We saw the video of that headkick against Meisha Tate over and over. It’s easy to forget she’s really good because of all the annoying hype around her looks.

by Michael Rome on Jun 23, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Correct, and Stein doesn’t offer any real analysis as to why Cyborg can technically stand with Carano. The animated GIF provided in that post doesn’t show a more technically sound Cyborg at all. In fact, it mostly shows some weaknesses such as Cyborg winding up immensely to throw a blow. Just horrible in comparison to Carano’s striking IMO.

Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com

by Leland Roling on Jun 23, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, I didn’t even see his GIF, where Cyborg is wild as hell.

by Michael Rome on Jun 24, 2009 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

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