Is It Time for a Do Over for MMA Judges and Referees?
Tomas Rios thinks so:
It’s an understandably difficult situation, but we’ve reached a tipping point as the level of incompetence displayed by both judges and referees now goes far beyond what we should expect or tolerate.
Just look at this past weekend’s TUF 9 finale card. Both Gleison Tibau and Edgar Garcia fell victim to the not altogether shocking ineptitude of supposedly professional judges. Throw in a rash of bad calls made by big-name referees and relative unknowns alike, and we’re at a crossroads where the UFC has to choose between letting this go on unabated or using its connections to the Nevada State Athletic Commission to fix this and fix it now. After all, having former NSAC Executive Director Marc Ratner working for the UFC should only help to effect change with the sanctioning bodies.
He also argues that there is a simple solution:
Thankfully the solution is patently obvious and I’m hardly the first to suggest it: The UFC, being the only promotion with the stateside pull to get things done, needs to sit down with the sanctioning bodies and work out a rigorous certification program for both judges and referees.
...
For example, prospective referees should go through an extensive training camp with the sport’s best existing referees in order to prove they have the skills necessary to get the job done. Beyond that, all new referees should go through a probationary period during which they officiate only small-scale sanctioned events before being considered for full licensing and the opportunity to preside over the sport’s biggest fights. That would give the sanctioning bodies the opportunity to separate the wheat from the chaff, limiting the current crop of subpar officials from making more big-stakes bad calls and potentially ruining someone’s career.
Beyond that, a review system must be implemented to ensure that the referees who are licensed are kept fully accountable. In the current system, even the worst calls net only an apology and some public humiliation for whoever is responsible.
Keep the same criteria for judges, and the system will become a well-oiled machine capable of handling the split-second decision-making demanded of referees and the reasoned analysis judges must make within moments of the closing bell. This is the only option for staving off the gradual decline we’ve seen from the sport’s officials.
Rios is being too optimistic here. While more training for MMA judges and referees would no doubt be beneficial, there is no amount of training that can give a referee the kind of in-ring instincts to adequately protect fighters if they do not have good instincts to begin with. Alertness, acuity and the kind of in-ring persona that allows a referee like Big John McCarthy to ALWAYS be in control in the cage are not things that can be taught.
This isn't even to mention the fact that Rios is conflating the problems we saw this weekend with MMA judging with problems we've seen in the past with MMA referees. His grand plan doesn't mention anything about modifying or clarifying the scoring system for judges. Of course, more training for judges will help, but if the scoring system remains inherently vague and subjective, it will make very little difference.
Fundamentally, the 10 point must system is a bolt-on from boxing that has little if anything to do with MMA. It has many defenders, but I personally believe that the Japanese judging criteria is a better fit for MMA -- in theory if not always in execution.
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oops
misspelled Tomas’ name.
typical irresponsible, unedited blogger!
my bad Tomas, sorry about that!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Ugh...
I’ve mentioned this time and time again, but I agree with the counterpoints. There does need to be some sort of extensive training program, but the referee system should work like MLB. Smaller shows, show that you are competent, get the call to the big show. Sure, mistakes happen, but continually doing so in the MLB only gets your ass sent back down to the minor leagues. MLB reviews calls by referees as does the NFL, etc. It doesn’t seem like there is any sort of review in place, although I know they state they do review things.
In regards to the judging system, I feel like we’ve beaten the issue to death. I’ve become more and more disheartened at this issue actually EVER being fixed. Unless we go around changing the mindset of each judge and going from VAGUE to DEFINITIVE judging criteria, it’s going to be all screwed up regardless.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Jun 23, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Your signature is kind of ridiculous now given that by the time someone gets to it they have likely just done exactly what you suggest.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Jun 23, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL, true.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Jun 23, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Judging the fight on the whole will open the door for more fight fixing or the appearance of fight fixing.
Look at the Olympics, even figure skating and gymnastics have had to move away from 6.0/10.0 nonsense and started scoring each individual element because of the French Judge at the 2002 olympics.
Even Sengoku has moved away from judging the fight as a whole. Now that there is money involved (both from the companies and in the gambling world) I think that the art of judging anything (as a whole) is going to dissappear.
It would be very easy to make some big improvements with the reffing.
1) Get big John back
2) Get rid of those other two idiots
I know it is not as simple as this but either the UFC or the commission needs to make it happen.
Judging is harder to fix but shouldn’t be impossible. IMO there needs to be totally new criteria. The tough part is that it not only needs to be more specific but also easier for fans to understand.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
Doesn’t Big John McCarthy have just such a referee school? I thought I saw something where it went into detail how hardly anyone passes his course.
He does, but the seminars really aren’t long enough; it’s a short, intensive course. On top of that: only in one place (California); not recognized or endorsed by any promoters; not continuous. So it’s a start but it would have to be GREATLY expanded.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Step #1) Can The Mirg & Cecil
Step #2) Problem solved
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
YES YES YES
send Cecil to Imo’s pizza, the need drivers.
The thing about the scoring system is not a flaw in the scoring system, but a flaw in its application. a ten point must should be adequate for MMA, but the teeth have been striped out of it.
In boxing, a knock down indicates a 10-8. A mostly conclusive event that the judges can read in a book on how to score the round, but that don’t get applied to MMA. A knock down doesn’t get you a 10-8. The action is all over the place and events are less defined. I believe training can solve your issues. There are 10 points and they use a range of 2. Being more expressive with the tools given would give you a more deterministic result. I think there might be better options, but the Pride system is not one of them. The Pride system lacked transparency and would be impossible to teach or police.
by szucconi on Jun 23, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The internet is just full of domestic terrorists these days.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Jun 23, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What people forget...
is that Big John has made a number of real bonehead moves in the past. There was a period back when Vitor Belfort was emerging that he made a number of huge miscalls. People fail to remember this / haven’t seen his mistakes as it was back in the 90’s, before TUF. A lot of what makes a ref good is experience and unfortunately, that experience sometimes is at the expense of the fighters in the cage. Big John has his experience, but there was a period when he wasn’t infallible.
by HonorableJudgeIto on Jun 23, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
he's still not infallible
but I’m not recalling any of the huge miscalls from back in the day off the top of my head — and I didn’t miss a one of the old UFCs — got some specifics in mind?
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Even when the whole thing was a circus it didn’t see like the refs became clowns until recently.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Jun 23, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t see why you think the ten point must system is causing problems that an opening judging criteria would solve. As I said in the other post, if folks were scoring the fights correctly, then it won’t matter whether they’re judging the fight as a whole or in parts.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
I think the fact that there has been any intelligent debate on Sanchez vs Guida means there is at very least a flaw in the way that the system is applied.
Even the judges who got it right scored it closer than it really was.
In the NFL that fight would have been 42-17
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Jun 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
People have talked about problems with scoring each round (not a problem of the ten-point must system but of judges knowing what 10-10, 10-9, 10-8, and 10-7 rounds are) and that the rules are vague (again not a problem of the ten-point must system but of nebulous wording and a lack of proper judge training). Nobody has raised a valid criticism of the ten-point must system yet.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 23, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Referee Review
It seems there should be some sort of consequences for a referee’s poor performance. A referee could be placed on probation by the athletic commissions for a poor performance. How could there be no punishment or sanctioning against Yves Lavigne for the Matt Brown fight where he legitimately endangered the other fighter’s health. Then, Lavigne commits the same mistake a few weeks later. If the athletic commissions are not going to regulate referee performances, then the UFC should just take matters into its own hands. As an organization, can’t the UFC just put bad refs on probation for poor performances & take them off a future card, or even kick them out of their organization?

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![What do you think needs to change for Brazilian MMA to become like it is nowadays in the US?
I did five events in Brazil and the tough [part] about Brazil is the fans. The fans buy the tickets too close to the event and the promoters don’t have incentive to do events. The problem is that they have to buy tickets... We do one event there, we don’t get any money and we won’t do another. We have a lot of fighters, and UFC didn’t come to Brazil yet because of that. The first time we went there, a lot of people tried to enter [for free] because [they said they were the] friend of someone... On the other hand, the country is wonderful, the people are beautiful, everybody loves to go to Brazil, and we have the best fighters. We need the fans to contribute with the MMA.
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