Just how bad are MMA databases?
by JCS_FM on Jun 2, 2009 11:14 AM EDT
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PrintMore frequently than not, when a new fighter creeps into the rankings, I'll take a close look at our reported professional W-L-D record for the fighter. Verifying the records sounds straightforward, right? Wrong.
Depending on the fighter's background, you have to know where to go in order to verify the numbers. This is quite an art. Let's take a look at an example fighter.
Example 1: 
Olly Bradstreet
Olly Bradstreet is a fighter out of Utah, who built his career based on fights from the Ultimate Combat Experience. Never heard of them? I'm not surprised, but they have had dozens of shows in Utah, all of which are considered professionally sanctioned (I verified this with the state). MixedMartialArts and CombatRec seem like the second-tier verification, with Sherdog being the first.
Database records as of 6/2/09 11:00AM EST for Bradstreet are as follows:
FightMatrix: 36-11
Sherdog: 34-9
MixedMartialArts:18-11
CombatRec: 29-4
MMAUniverse: 3-1
In this example, MixedMartialArts seems to have all of his losses, but only half of his wins. CombatRec and Sherdog are just missing bouts here and there, while MMAUniverse obviously doesn't care much about the American scene.
Example 2: 
Jesse Taitano
Jesse (or Jess, not sure) Taitano is a Flyweight from Guam. Local news sources have his record at 7-4-2, but even I cannot locate a couple of those bouts. Taitano recently burst into the World Flyweight scene with draws against Shinichi Kojima, and Yasuhiro Urushitani, while accumulating a 1-1 record between those two draws. There's no real good sources for Pacific Rim results, so fighters from places like Guam are lacking coverage.
Database records as of 6/2/09 11:00AM EST for Taitano are as follows:
Fightmatrix: 5-4-2
Sherdog: 4-3-2
MixedMartialArts: 3-1-1
CombatRec: 1-1-1
MMAUniverse: 1-1-3
OK, now this is pretty sad... considering Taitano is Top 10 in his division. MMAUniverse actually has Taitano drawing twice against Kojima in the same night. Interesting.
Although we're not perfect, we like to think our database is one of the best, if not the best out there. However, the MMA scene as a whole has a lot of work to do on keeping track of professional fighters' records.
Originally posted on FightMatrix: http://www.fightmatrix.com/
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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It a hard problem to solve. How does boxing do it? With shows taking place in just about any location and at any scale, it is a daunting task.
BoxRec has it on lock.
With the exception of southeast Asia, they are as close to 100% as possible. They have a few dozen volunteer editors that cover sections of the globe.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
by JCS_FM on Jun 2, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
BoxRec is awesome. They don’t miss too many tricks.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Jun 3, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Boxrec is like basketballreference; baseball reference.
They make alot of money off of the website and traffic. Even promoters use it as a good and quick guide when they want to match up their up and coming fighters.
It is a great opportunity for someone to take advantage and to make a website like the one mentioned. It is clearly needed in the world of MMA.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
You can’t really solve the problem without a workforce of people helping. I’ve always thought a Wikipedia-like community could help, but the problem there is that people can simply fake fight results and add those fights into it without verification.
It’d be nice if the commissions actually kept track of everything, and even nicer if that was all accessible via web services to load databases. It’s too bad.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Jun 2, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, I am. I actually have my database set up to be accessible via a web service call with arguments, but there is no real point to it. I have it setup to my Blackberry, and I can query results through my phone from the database. Much quicker than looking it up on Sherdog, and I can run any SQL statement I was via a text message interface. Of course, whoever uses it has to know SQL. I can also query it to output the results dynamically, so it’ll create a webpage on my server I can access via the web.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Jun 2, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
If I get the time..
I’d really like to bring our database up on the web and get a few volunteer editors to assist, but I just don’t have the time right now.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
I’ve been doing a lot of research recently for a pet project of mine, and it has been exhausting at times. I’m mainly looking into young “prospects,” and attempting to verify their and their opponents records, as well as the promotions they fought in. It’s just seemingly impossible. At time, it feels like the UFC are the only ones who have a grasp on the scene at all. You have to give a lot of credit to their scouting department.
BATTLEBASE.NET
is the most complete database on the web
How does one sign up "for free"
All I see are paid memberships.. What a money making scheme THAT is…
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
you dont need a membership
to look up basic stats, such as fight records
by noscarznoproof on Jun 2, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Norm Alexander...
I train under the guy. At the Michiana Fight League I recently attended he was announced at 34-7. A lot of people made some cracks about it because his Sherdog profile had him at like 0-3. He has almost all of his fights on video and I’m pretty sure his actual record is like 30-10 or somewhere in there with almost every win being a submission. The big problem with a guy like Norm is that he just loves to train and fight but has never been big on making sure all of his fights are recorded in these databases…so branching out of the area will be hard because promoters will check Sherdog to see what he has done and who he has beaten..etc.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 2, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
damn that sucks..
30+ wins turned to 0? harsh..
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 3, 2009 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions
There is a Norman Alexander as well
It might be the same guy.. either way, still far short of the record you speak of.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
Yeah...
I think a couple of Norman’s are actually Norms. But in the database Norman is listed at like 165 and Norm maxes out around 140 unless he is fighting WAY lighter than he used to. Either way, he’s just an example of the databases not being 100% trustworthy.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 3, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But to go further...
While I’ve trained under him he has had 3 fights (all submission wins), only one of which is listed by Sherdog.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 3, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
can i do searches to find a fighter on your database? cause aside from the fighters you ranked, i cant seem to find the others.
I know that Sherdog has relied heavily on event promoters to provide them with results. Currently, I believe Breen has taken on the responsibility of updating the Fight Finder by goin g back and reviewing fights.
It will be interesting to see if promoters continue relying on the Fight Finder eventhough mma.tv was named the official record keeper of the Association of Boxing Commissions.
by Kamakana Kaimuloa on Jun 3, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
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