Brock Lesnar in Maxim, Hungry for Frank Mir, "Built Like a Black Man", and Still Homophobic
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 18, 2009 6:16 PM EDT
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Nate Penn of Maxim has a piece on Brock Lesnar and there are some humdingers in it. First up, Frank Mir, still disrespecting:
"If Brock Lesnar was never in the WWE," says Frank Mir, against whom Lesnar will mount his first title defense on July 11, "he would never have gotten a title shot. And he knows that. But that’s how people get paid. The bottom line is it’s not always about who’s a better fighter."
Lesnar talks about the WWE:
"You get so brainwashed. You’re on the road 300 days a year, and that’s why guys get so messed up. This life becomes a part of them. It’s not real, but some guys who are still in the business think it is. You look at Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler—he just couldn’t let it go. You live a double life. I was tired of trying to be who I was in the ring and then coming home for two days to be normal. They didn’t allow you to be. The guys who get out are the smart ones, really and truly."
Dismisses steroid allegations by making a rather remarkable comment:
"I bet you I’ve taken over 60 steroid tests. In college I had 15 random drug tests in two years. I’ve taken drug tests for the NFL, the WWE, the UFC. I must be pretty good at masking steroids. God gave me this body: Are you jealous of it or what? Give me a break. I got the genetics of—not to get into racism or anything—but I’m built like a black man. ...It’s all genetics. I wouldn’t say we’re all created equal. That’s just to make the other guys feel good who don’t have what you’ve got."
They are pretty generous with the "air time" they give Mir. Here's one of the better breakdowns of Lesnar's style I've seen:
"All I remember from last time," says Mir, who once snapped an opponent’s forearm with a submission, "is him whimpering and wincing as I was tapping him." Mir has studied Lesnar’s career, going all the way back to his NCAA days. "If you watched when he wrestled in college," he observes, "his abilities were not very technical. He used his size and his power. He won matches by one and two points, drew the pace down, got real boring." He says Lesnar fundamentally remains that kind of fighter and that Lesnar’s strategy will play directly into his own legendary submission skills.
And then there's this priceless bit of vintage Lesnar homophobia to end the piece:
That’s not to say he’s uncomfortable in front of the camera. Approaching him, I’m hit by the cloying scent of the oil smeared all over his torso. We’re talking about Frank Mir when I interrupt to joke, "You smell delicious, by the way." I do know what I was thinking: There’s something comical about an enormous man who’s basically wearing perfume. But as soon as I utter those words, I realize I’ve fucked up massively. Galactically. You do not make sexually ambiguous quips to a man who grapples intimately with other men for a living.
Lesnar’s eyes narrow. His lips tighten. "What?" he asks. His tone is equal parts malevolence and disgust.
"What is that smell?" I stammer, trying to sound offhand about it.
He’s watching me closely. "Oil," he sneers.
I have no doubt that Lesnar's homophobia springs from a real sense of horror and confusion deep within him (and maybe self-loathing), but the part of me that appreciates the carney barker's art of pro-wrestling thinks Lesnar has seized on a great 21st Century angle for playing the heel.
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Well, he knows how to make dumb statements!
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Was that a promotional thing for a WWE pay-per-veiw? If It is I’d guess Summerslam.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
It’s older, from before he had his phallic chest tattoo. Why does he drop the shark on himself at the end?
I have never watched the WWE. Seriously his move was to drop his opponents on himself? WTF? Why? What was the move called?
Thats a phail move. The F5 doesn’t end with is opponents on top of him…LOL. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 18, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine I guess I’m the only one who watched wrestling. The move ends with the guy he tossed in the air landing face down with Brocks arm over the back of their neck. Commence mockery…
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
That is just great man, great!!
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
“I have no doubt that Lesnar’s homophobia springs from a real sense of horror and confusion deep within him (and maybe self-loathing).”
What’s your certainty about his homophobia based on? Are you saying that everyone who’s homophobic is conflicted? It isn’t that I think homophobia is a great thing. It’s usually based on ignorance. But simplifying homophobia as a manifestation of secret desires is taking it a bit too far. Yes, some homophobes are closet cases. Others probably aren’t.
On another note… I’m rooting for Mir? God, what has this world come to?
There's a knife involved?
I thought it was just a penis.
by FRANKIE on Jun 18, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
sounds painful
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jun 19, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Well i think coupling the ‘he who smelt it delt’ logic with his homophobia and his racial statement, leads to Brock Lesnar fantasizing about black men. Brock Lesnar is so good at making himself a heel, it’s incredible. I wonder if he does it on purpose? Like since he had to live it so much in the WWE he became it, or if he was always like that.
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 18, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well i for one
hate it when ugly chicks make advances on me. same goes for dudes. if im not attracted to you, im going to make sure you arent getting lead on.
from the forest itself comes the handle for the axe
Let’s face it – Lesnar isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer; he says A LOT of stupid things and is either playing up the part of the back country hick with no social awareness skills or he really is just a dumb hick. But that doesn’t change that he’s a tank in the cage.
That being said, I love how Mir knocks him for “using his power and strength” as if it was a bad strategy. Whether you win by one point or by ten points, you still win, same as if you use strength and power or jiu jitsu. Man, I hate Frank Mir.
In regards to the homophobia thing, I have to go with cmsove on this one – you can’t say what it comes from. There are just way too many variables and possibilities to make the statement you did.
by E. Spencer Kyte on Jun 18, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
Hes from Webster South Dakota. Odds are I’m the only person on this site who has spent significant time (and has a good portion of family in South Dakota) there. Its pretty backwoods, like really, really backwoods. The culture is completely different there. Political correctness isn’t in the vocabulary, guys are supposed to hunt, fish and ride snow mobiles and homosexuality is not something that is overt.
I can definitely see how he could develop those beliefs the same way I can see how someone raised in an area where homosexuality is not considered weird to have no problems with it.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
I'm not particularly homophobic...
…but it’d freak me out a little bit if one of my co-workers told me I smelled delicious – male or female. It’s just not a very professional way to do your job, y’know?
I think you’re reading too much into it.
“Yeah, but I taste like beatdowns and the tears of children.”
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jun 18, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
guys talk shit
moreso if they’re your friends. a wink followed by a “thanks babe” response would have been hilarious.
idiot (to lesner)
agreed. I would love if Brock winked and said thanks babe, that would be epic. How hilarious would that be if big as Brock Lesnar had a sense of humor, instead of homophobic (and possibly racist) tendencies?
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 18, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Was still in a work place setting in a professional situation. At least Brock is truthful about his genuine disgust with gays. Plenty of people feel that way and are fearful to be truthful about it in todays media. If you can openly condone homosexuality, then I see no reason that you cannot openly disagree with it. Some may find your open disagreement offensive, but some may also find open gayness offensive as well. You can’t please everyone.
by RyanHobbs on Jun 19, 2009 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know, how insightful you are.
If only it were acceptable to openly hate who you wanted.
If only there were organizations where all of these “plenty of people” could go to “feel that way”.
Oh yeah, there are.
by begottenson on Jun 19, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
you've all made your points
lets stop it here.
thanks
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
To Quote Brock:
“I don’t like gays. Write that down in your little notebook. I don’t like gays.”
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 18, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You misunderstand:
I’m not saying that he’s not homophobic. I’m saying that the quoted bit in the profile is not homophobic in and of itself.
I hate the homphobia
But Mir’s going to get his ass whupped. Lesnar has done nothing but learn since that fight. I’ve never heard someone brag so much about beating a guy that was 1-0 in my life.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 18, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
maybe
I know you think highly of Lesnar, but it’s not like Mir is resting on his laurels either. He has branched out his training and continues to develop his standup and groundgame with Dysdale, Maia, among others. I give Mir at least a 40 percent chance of winning.
And though Mir talks about his win a lot, at the time, and even now, there really is no other fighter who was 1-0 who was given a prime spot on a ppv and hyped as Lesnar was and is (although with a win at 100 the hype will be evn more warranted and deserving). Although Mir is a former champion, it is that victory over that 1-0 fighter that the public knows him for.
How could he not talk about it? But Yes Mir could be more sporting in his conduct
But Yes Mir could be more sporting in his conduct
Mir’s doing the same thing Lesnar does. He’s selling the fight. The only really weird bit is that both are playing the heel.
I wonder if he's tying to piss brock off so much
that he is unable to fight smart.
by fuzzy wuzzy on Jun 19, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
That shouldn't be too hard.
It’s not like his game has been highly strategic thus far.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I like Mir sometimes, but you are right.
Mir seems to be trying to cash in on the guy he says only had his shot because of his WWE fame. One would think that many BJJ blackbelts would eventually be able to catch a guy with one MMA fight in a sub. That is not really something to brag about. Mir won that fight, no doubt about it. But he was dangerously close to being stopped by that same 1-0 fighter.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I have no doubt that Lesnar’s homophobia springs from a real sense of horror and confusion deep within him (and maybe self-loathing)
this speaks more about you than Lesnar. </baseless assumption>
http://www.mma-collective.com/
by schizosmurf on Jun 18, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I’ve seen this kind of thing come up before and the argument that I’ve seen is that guys like Chiek Kongo get less steroid suspicion thrown their way because African-Americans are seen as able to obtain bodies like that naturally.
Personally I don’t know people of any color who get that big naturally but I didn’t wrestle or play football in college so who knows if that’s the prevailing thought process in those groups.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Not saying this is legit or anything, but I’ve heard it a lot also. It’s one of those positive stereotypes. http://www.wapt.com/health/19733918/detail.html
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think black people are more athletic (maybe faster but thats a calf muscle thing)… but in this country there are just more descendants of athletic individuals. For 200 years down south there were plantation owners putting their slaves out to stud (fucked up… unless youre into gettling laid all the time). So if a dude like Brock was a slave 300 years ago, the plantation owner would loan him out to all his buddies who want to create super babies. “look at this guy, he can pull the wagon better than my oxen.” Now we have a ton of huge black dudes in our country, where as in a country like Italy, where the guys were working inside the home – much smaller.
crazy
Not to be racist but...
anytime someone says something like that it means they are about to say something racist.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Jun 18, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Will Ferrell to his boss in Talladega Nights
“With all due respect, Mr Dennit, I had no idea you had gotten experimental surgery to have your balls removed”
“What, what did you say, what was that, what was that?”
“Woah woah, I said with all due respect”
“No, that doesn’t mean you get to say whatever you want to say to me”
“Sure, sure as heck does”
“No no, it doesn’t mean that”
“Its in the Geneva Convention, look it up”
by Graven Image on Jun 18, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ha
I use that one a lot. Or “God bless him/her” and then I butcher said person.
http://andheneverwilldies.ytmnd.com/
by monkeyfightclub! on Jun 19, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I try to like Lesnar
I really do – he has some of the most raw talent I’ve seen. He is an absolute beast, and I have no doubt Mir is in for a world o’ pain. I can’t wait to see how far he goes in MMA. Yet, when he talks, I just want him to lose horribly. The “Heavyweight Champion”, the most prestigious title in combat sports and thus an ambassador of sports, should not be this thick-headed and bigoted.
If I were to meet him in person, I would make as many gay jokes as possible. It would probably end like Jim Rome & Jim Everett, but I really don’t care, despite him being (literally) 3x my size. It’d be funny.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 18, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Million
dollar body and a nickel worth of brains.
Like making a D&D character who spends all their points on strength.
God, I’m a nerd.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jun 18, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
A friend of mine made a character and maxed his points in STR/CON, but was so dumb he could only speak in grunts. Whenever we were learning about the story from NPCs, he had to cover his ears so he couldn’t get any smarter.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 18, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
My nerdy friend who goes to comicbook conventions just got me to agree to go to WizardCon? or something (Matt Serra and Lou Ferrigno will be there).
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 18, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s WizardWorld. Probably Philly. I’m pretty sure that’s the one happening this weekend. I know this because I’m a huge geek who works in the comic book industry.
Yea def. in philly, it’s where I live. I want to go beat Serra in Undisputed with a spinning elbow. Too soon?
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 19, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
You aren’t the only one around.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 19, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
reminds me of this Onion story
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29743
http://andheneverwilldies.ytmnd.com/
by monkeyfightclub! on Jun 19, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
come one poeple
I can’t be the only one that hopes Mir walks out of this fight looking like herring did.
I hope Lesnar walks out of this fight looking like Herring did. Actually, let me correct that. I hope Lesnar gets carried out of this fight looking like Sakurada did after his fight with Arona.
Unless he mispelled Sakurada, umm no?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Has Mir ever
knocked anyone out cold, let alone break someone’s orbital bone. Come on man, Brock lands a big one again and pretty boy Mir’s gonna be tapping like a baby.
Lesnar has not knocked anyone out cold – so what is your point?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jun 19, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
you must not have read the entire comment
Lesnar has shattered someones face, the fact the Herring didn’t go out is a miracle. On top of that he almost knocked out Mir and Randy, I’d say his chances to know someone out are far better then Mir could ever dream of. In all four of Lesnars fights he’s almost scored knock out blows relatively quickly, so I guess my point is it’s only a matter of time, and Mir might be his first official ko.
This was in response to:
I’d say his [Lesnar] chances to know[knock] someone out are far better then Mir could ever dream of.
Mir’s win over Nog was a TKO not a KO, and it still doesn’t take away from the fact that I’m right about Lesnars power, I know it doesn’t take a brain surgeon but given Brocks relative inexperience at this point all of his fights to date could have ended with the same TKO, I expect the Mir/Lesnar fight to end pretty well the same way the Lesnar/Courture fight ended.
I hope Mir isn’t able to walk out of this fight.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
by ufc4 on Jun 18, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I hope the cheering fans demand that he be carried out as well for an impromptu parade and celebration of his win.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
That depends
on what market Dana wants, does he want to get more people interested in MMA or does he want to pander to the “hardcore” fans.
There’s no question Dana wants Brock to win. How could he not? The guy could sell 600,000 PPV’s with a fight against Ross from Friends. Which sounds like a more exciting main event- Frank Mir versus Shane Carwin or Brock Lesnar versus Shane Carwin? One would sell 400,000 PPV’s while the other would sell 700 or 800, do the math.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
I'm still rooting for Lesnar over Mir
I’ll never forgive Mir for what he did during the Torres/Missacki fight.
Also, I hate Lesnar and hope he gets horribly Zulu’d someday. Horribly Zulu’d.
Attn Brock Lesnar:
The gays are after you. They want to sneak into your house and make sweet love to you all night. There is a secret underground gay base that is building tunnels toward your house. Don’t say you were never warned.
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
by Ubernoober on Jun 18, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
This sounds like a job for George Takei.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 19, 2009 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t get the homophobic assumption. Some guy you don;t know says something odd and therefore you are homophobic. I think you are projecting your hatred for Brock and trying to nitpick him. The people that constantly make penile jokes about his tattoo may be a more deserving target.
However, his statement about having a black man’s body is beyond idiotic and deserves all the contempt directed at him.
Look, I love Brock, but he doesn’t like gay people – read his SI interview.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 18, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the second time,
stop beating me to responses. Fuck.
It's like you (subo), mythbuster and I are made for each other.
Hey, are any of you hot chicks???
Admits it to in ESPN, too.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 18, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand your point Subo,
but it is possible for people to not agree with the homosexual lifestyle (religious beliefs) and not be “homophobic”. I have no idea what Lesnar’s true feelings are, just saying.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
What about,
To Quote Brock:
"I don’t like gays. Write that down in your little notebook. I don’t like gays."
In case you’re too lazy to read the SI interview or look up in the posts he actually said “I don’t like gays”
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 18, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
how come replies are only popping up after I enter mine in, even though they were made way earlier? I feel like a Parrot.
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
When he says hes built like a black man hes not all wrong. My best freind that lives with me is black and hes RIPPED like I could never be! We’ve worked out together doing the same regimines for a couple years now and he is just so damn cut up! In face he does not train bjj formally on top of lifting weights (i have been for almost 5 years now!) So I should even be more ripped than he is and its not even close! In general black people are more naturally athletic hence have more athletic looking physiques!
Of course what you say is true (in general)
but it’s just the way he said it and the audience he addressed it to that make it sound so fucked up.
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/440/59/jaleel-white-d4.0.0.0x0.400x600.jpeg
He would beg to differ.
by fuzzy wuzzy on Jun 18, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Touche
But seriously, does everyone here believe in the superiority of race? Everyone here is a racist?
I’m keeping my mouth shut after this sentence – not every race was subjected to selective breeding and policies that explicitly called for the murder of literate members of said race.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 18, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hate agreeing with this statement, but the first part is unquestionably true. The literacy bit, however, is sketchy. While slaves were certainly not generally well educated (some were), literacy and intelligence are not the same thing, and even though you didn’t explicitly say they are the implication is there.
The real point you’re making stands though. African Americans who are descended from slaves were intentionally bred to be physically impressive. Evolution happens, and it happens quicker when outside influences are involved.
I feel really gross now. Thanks for that, subo.
Agreeing with me often causes that feeling. You get used to it.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 18, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s why I drink.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 18, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that is a specious argument that has been disproved
chattel slavery barely lasted four hundred years, it takes thousands for real trait evolution.
On the other hand, scientific american has reported that people of west african descent tend to have more fast twitch muscle and excel at explosive movement.
east africans excel at long distance running.
northern europeans tend to have the most upper body strength.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And Nate has the ability to detect homosexual desires in men he’s never met? :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 19, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just want it known that from now on when I want to bag on a fighter, I’m going to say:
“I have no doubt that [Fighter X]’s homophobia springs from a real sense of horror and confusion deep within him (and maybe self-loathing.”
Personally I think that Brock’s homophobia springs from a real sense of what a douchebag he is. [See: less unkind than what Nate said!]
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
please note the "maybe"
there are clinical studies linking hate crimes against homosexuals to repressed desires on the part of the assailants.
Forgive me for letting science be my guide in these matters.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
The maybe is only on the self-loathing – you’ve got NO DOUBT about the man’s sexual confusion. And I’m NOT disagreeing with you. :-)
But just because they find a correlation between the two doesn’t mean they find a one-for-one correlation. Right?
And waitaminute – are you linking Brock to hate crimes now? Man, I thought I had a reputation for shitting on the man… :-P
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 19, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definitely not one on one
I’m pretty sure some of it stems from ignorance and bad education just like any other form of racism . As someone here said Brock was raised in a not so politically correct region, could be an explanation for his weird behavior . Trying to find reasons for hatred and stupidity is hard , I can’t understand why some people hate jews or blacks either , non of their reasons will make sense to me…
But I can totally see why folks would hate white people. Just about everybody that’s ever beaten me up, fired me for no reason, turned me down for a date (but I’m also looking at you, black ladies!), or made my life miserable has been white.
It’s just a good thing my kids and my wife are white or I’d probably be some kind of anti-white-supremacist or something….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
LOL
Ha ha , you’re in a weird position there then buddy .
I think it’s best for you TO JOIN THEM !
Because Brock Lesnar has committed so many hate crimes.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 19, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He makes me hate him on a regular basis….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
When you’re selectively breeding, trait development can occur in a few generations. Darwinian evolution takes thousands of years because it is rooted in random mutations – the randomness is eliminated when you choose the mates. It’s like breeding thoroughbred racehorses.
Interesting info on the different Africans, though – it does make sense.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Its not evolution
but take a guy like Djimon Honsou who has great genetics, and mix him with Serena Williams, then take the best of those kids and continue down the line taking the ones with the desirable traits, you end up with super kids. Thats not evolution, its good breeding.
Nobles in European history used to consider things like mental health, looks and intelligence and do the same thing. “He is from good stock”
It's Evolution's Cousin
That’s why I separated natural selection from artificial selection. AS uses evolution’s basic genetic principles and speeds up the process, like the thoroughbred example. Honsou & Williams is another. I don’t get why you’re saying evolution is unrelated to it…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I ment evolution in the long term, genetic mutation sense in response to Kid Nate’s post. Ive spouted artificial selection posts all over this board and agree with you. However, its not the new genes develop and superceed the old ones natural selection most people think about when discussing evolution. Artificial selection is done with genes already in the gene pool. I think we agree on that tho
themachiavellian is right about artificial selection, however
blacks and white can, do and did interbreed. Therefore since you are not applying artificial selection on an entire species, any changes made are transient.
by fuzzy wuzzy on Jun 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Its true, in Europe
each nation had different colonies and stole slaves from different parts of Africa. Its as easy to tell a person of African decent in Italy from one in France as it is to tell a Swedish person from a Turkish person…. there are defiantly regional differences.
Combine that with
the Africans who were sold into slavery by other Africans and you have an interesting point.
here's a good clarifying quote
from Slate:
Race is not a causal unit. There’s no such thing as having fast-twitch muscle fiber because you’re black. The causal unit is a gene, or a network of genes, or a network of genes and environmental factors. Being black only makes you more likely to have a genetic variant that makes you more likely to have extra fast-twitch fiber.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
And the probability only increases if your heritage traces back to the specific group within the larger set of the “black race”; humans sort by very rough visible features which often results in the perception that people who are extremely different are members of the same “race” because they have a common feature. Example: the indigenous people of Japan look like Europeans in that they have light coloured skin a few other features, but genetically they’re unrelated.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
are you a moron?
the indigenous people of Japan look like Europeans in that they have light coloured skin a few other features, but genetically they’re unrelated.
by fuzzy wuzzy on Jun 19, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
no name calling
and you’re not making a point. AJB is correct in his statement.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Damn subo, what a loaded, tricky statement.
I agree with your statement at face value; none of us (white or black or whatever) can ever understand the horrors that enslaved people (of any race) go through. We must the past to prevent history from repeating itself.
Now the conclusions that one draws from subo’s statement determines if they are racists or not. If you see this as proof that blacks are in anyway less than whites, then you are racist. As far as intelligence, there is a lot more variation within a single race than there ever will be between different races. The human mind is an amazing thing and a nurturing environment during one’s childhood plays a MUCH bigger role than genetics ever will.
OK, i’m done. This is too much of a touchy subject.
Nope
I think that this debate is racist by definition , you’re talking about a race and then attribute to it certain qualities – athletic ability (though positive in this case) . It’s like saying jews or Asians are smart , though it’s (seemingly) a positive thing to say it’s still ‘racist’ , or at least stereotypical. I personally don’t really care this way or the other , but if we want to be politically correct we would probably need to drop those issues all together , because if you can compare athletic abilities between races why not compare IQ levels , crime rates , social economic status etc etc …? Athletic ability isn’t purely genetic either , whose to say blacks work ethic in the gyms isn’t higher? (nope , I don’t really think that).
whose to say blacks work ethic in the gyms isn’t higher?
but you have to consider the getting out of the gettho stories where the kid was mal nourished, slept in a box, crack addict mom, no training facilities or lifting, and still ends up being a huge. Thats all genetics
Or coming from a bad environment provides more motivation.
As a data point, the word “ghetto” was originally used to mean “the part of town where the Jewish folks live.” And in the 1930s you would have heard a lot of people talking about how Jews were NATURALLY better basketball players than anyone else.
Because Jews were the primary urban underclass, they had the most motivation to get good at a game that required little to no equipment (only 1 guy in 10 needs to own a ball). Saying that blacks are better at athletics because of genetics is just an excuse.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Im not the one who started calling it that
I’m from the ghetto homie
I was raised on bread and bologna
Saying that blacks are better at athletics because of genetics is just an excuse.
Im not saying that, but there are some things you cant teach, like size. Some people are genetically predisposed to be bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, better looking. There are things you can do about it, lift, run, study, wear make up but there is always people who things come easy to. Its no ones fault, just the way it is. Im skinny and have long arms. Never gonna be able to bench 420 like my stocky buddy.
But youre probably one of the guys who thinks gay/straight is a choice too and not something genetic (actually it is, its been proven)
Some people are genetically predisposed to be bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, better looking.
No one is arguing this. However, a few individuals are not representative of an entire race. Most immigrants tend to be smaller than average, but over one generation, their offspring becomes average. The tallest and biggest individuals in the world are Chinese. Does that make Chinese people predisposed to be huge? Not really.
Let’s not confuse selective breeding with racial disposition.
the generational growth thing is a byproduct of living conditions, proper nourishment, advances in medicine and a less difficult life. Per generation in Europe and North America, the average height has gone up an inch on average as life gets easier and people eat better. This trend is tapering off in the US however, if not going down, as Americans continue to eat like crap.
I didnt mean to come off as saying that people of African decent are going to be athletic because they are black, but that the gene pool they swim in has more of those genes then say, the Chinese gene pool (per capita) Thats not saying you cant have an athletic genetic freak white or asian guy, which I think is what Brock was saying about himself.
That is a factor, however, there are plenty of very poor people of every color who spend their whole childhood playing sports and yet the professional sports that require the most athleticism and physical ability are dominated by African Americans.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Poor African Americans or rich ones?
And that’s not true: lots of sports that require athleticism and physical ability are dominated by white guys: water polo, yachting, and lacrosse to name three.
(Don’t pretend that yachting doesn’t require speed and strength – they may be rich assholes, but they train hard for that shit.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Pretty obvious why a sport that has socioeconomic barriers to entry would be likely to be made up of a less diverse group of participants.
The opposite can be said for sports like basketball where there is no barrier to entry (other than physical ability) which should be made up of the most diverse group of people since it should be drawing from the widest possible pool of athletes.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
…which goes back to my point: it’s the people who want it – or need it – the most that end up at the top of the game. Why are there so many poor eastern Europeans that have ended up in the NBA? The superiority of Croation calf muscles?
Wait, that would explain a lot about Mirko….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Those Europeans that weren’t of a hearty stock didn’t do so well over the first half of the twentieth century.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 19, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s simply not true.
Evolution has always been about survival of the fittest, and all races have practiced selective breeding. Did no one watch 300 around here? =)
Really though. Its a dumb statement.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a total racist! I hate NASCAR!
Wait…different definition of “race”…carry on…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 18, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
How about: “Homophobia is gay – no homo”? That’s what the kids say.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Oil?
This S.O.B is greasing himself early for this one! He’ll oil until it becomes a part of his skin, so Frank Mur can’t try any of those leg-grabbin fruity moves.
Greek Fire?
[T]he part of me that appreciates the carney barker’s art of pro-wrestling thinks Lesnar has seized on a great 21st Century angle for playing the heel
Yes!
Mir is working his ass off to turn heel and you can’t really blame him, this could be the biggest payday he ever sees but nobody builds monster heels like Vince. Well, except for Watts. Is he still hawking self-improvement programs? He could do wonders with the UFC.
Maybe YOU can't
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
by ufc4 on Jun 19, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I wonder what would happen if Mir started whispering sweet nothings in Brock’s ear while they were fighting. I imagine Lesnar might get very sloppy and open himself up for a submission, or even get the TKO but keep spazzing out long enough to get himself DQ’d.
Brock Lesnar is just Matt Hughes with a lack of caring for what people think of what he says. He and Matt are really quite similar.
Is Brock going to do any damage with the things he says? Not really, the “Built like a black man” thing has been discussed well in this thread. I would be complimented if someone said “Built like a white man”…I don’t think any black guys are out there pissed off about Brock saying that.
Brock’s homophobia is sad, but I can respect his views. Personally, if someone dosen’t harm me or my loved ones, I have no angst towards them. Thats just me, some guys find something foreign to them, or something they disagree with and hate it just because it’s there. Thats life.
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 19, 2009 12:22 AM EDT reply actions
As a “Black” man, I tend to shy away from people who strongly believe stereotypes. In my experience, even people who have stated a belief in the flattering positive stereotypes, believed the negatives were true also. They have been the same people who say “I’m not racist I have # black friends!”
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 19, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, it’s not cool to stereotype people who believe stereotypes.
Wait…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
man this thread goes straight for the basement and then wants more. honestly im surprised the moderators didnt jump in earlier to close it.
Why don’t you let “the mods” worry about their own site.
Also, not everyone thinks like you. You should probably learn to accept that at some point.
by jebushchrist on Jun 19, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i know every dude here doesnt think like me, otherwise they wouldnt be posting such sad ass amateur racial biology bits in an mma forum. id be embarassed as hell to promote my website as a legit media outlet and have the comments look about one step away from stormfront.
by nigelzackit on Jun 19, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m open to hear what people have to say, but I have yet to see a reputable study confirming the assumption running through this thread that some “races” have superior genetics in one area or another. Even the idea that “race” is a genetic classification is a bit racist. Let’s be clear here, race is a social construct.
seriously, this thread is full of slightly more politically correct versions of “black people are so agile ’cause they used to jump from tree to tree”. all we need is richard lynn iq data.
by nigelzackit on Jun 19, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I sympathize with your concerns
and I always watch closely when the topic turns to race (a specious concept) and genetics.
But this piece from Slate does a fairly good job of discussing a lot of the nuance of this debate. There is something to it. Not racial differences, but genetic traits that give certain populations advantages in certain areas.
Check this:
There are no sprinters of note from Asia, even with more than 50 percent of the world’s population, a Confucian and Tao tradition of discipline, and an authoritarian sports system in place in the most populous country, China. No white sprinter can be found on the list of 100-meter sprinters; the best time by a white, 10 seconds, ranks more than 200th on the all-time list. … All of the 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men’s 100-meter races are of West African descent. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone—blacks from that region, now living around the globe, represent approximately 8 percent of the world’s population—is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's a study for you
From Science.
Another interesting piece from Scientific American “Does Race Exist?” — short answer “no”. Slightly longer answer:
“The results of these studies indicate that genetic analyses can distinguish groups of people according to their geographic origin. But caution is warranted. The groups easiest to resolve were those that were widely separated from one another geographically.”
Another good Slate piece “Why Are Jamaicans So Good At Sprinting?”
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
All Hail Slate.com!
Except for when they bashed MMA once after watching a lone episode of Unleashed. However, the chief editor is a big fan. Otherwise, it’s an awesome site (right or wrong, Hitchens is always entertaining.)
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
look, i get what youre doing here, but honestly, none of the arguments being presented here are on the level of SAs, not to mention theyre pointed in the other direction. i am not taking back my prior statement about what id compare them to. period. and hey, im not offended. internetz arent srs bizness. we all know that.
at the same time, if this is the kind of discussion you want to have on your site to generate hits, go ahead and kill my profile.
btw – the top 110 meter hurdler in the world is chinese.
by nigelzackit on Jun 19, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
none of the arguments being presented here are on the level of SAs
What’s SAs? Are you missing any punctuation here? As for “sad ass amateur racial biology bits [sic]”, what’s your biology knowledge base?
2ndly, how do you know blacks hadn’t become stronger through time to live better in the jungle? It would make Darwinian sense – living in different regions requires different needs. Equatorial countries are hot, so the skin adapts by producing more melanin. Jungles are difficult terrain, so they become stronger to navigate it. Conversely, there’s less to eat in polar regions, so people there remain short & stocky to conserve energy. There’s no moral qualifier- it doesn’t make anyone better or worse, just different.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
i abbreviated scientific american to ‘sa’. i figure im allowed. its the net.
the rest of your argument belongs in the sherdog war room if anywhere in the mma forum world. i guess thats what we are shooting for here though, right?
by nigelzackit on Jun 19, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
What the hell are you talking about? If you can point out specifically where I’ve gone wrong, please do so I can correct my mistakes. If you’re just going to speak in broad generalizations, I can’t help you. I know I’m not racist in real life, I don’t think I’ve come across as racist here, so I am at a loss for what your point is. Until you start citing examples to explain why BE is allowing racism, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
why don't you point out specifically offensive statements
we’ve already deleted, flagged and hidden several statements from this thread that were blatantly offensive.
But if your offenso-meter is running differently, use the actions button to flag statements that skeev you out.
And rather than making general and unfounded statements about the thread looking like stormfront (which it does not), please point out specific comments.
thanks
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
imagine a nascar forum where a thread started about how black people are lousy drivers because they never had experience riding horses in africa or something. thats basically what you have here. im not personally offended – if you want to let the other members post pictures of sambo dolls, i wont lose sleep. but it also tells me a lot about the direction this is headed.
no need to continue this discussion.
sadly I can't moderate a thread with generalities
I need specifics.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
This is silly. We’re all adults here.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 19, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they're misinformed but
I’m not going to censor people for making the “African-Americans were bred for athletics during slavery” argument when a quick google search reveals African-American PhD history candidate Ron Goodwin making the same argument here.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
My wife has a PhD in economics – can I get some of this cart blanche crazy action too? :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
So is the tallest person in the world. With a population of 2 billion you are going to find some amazing outliers.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Actually, you’re going to find enough outliers to make outliers seem like the wrong word.
It’s like the saying goes, “Even if you’re a one-in-a-million kind of guy, there’s a thousand just like you in China.”
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jun 19, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What the fuck are you talking about?
They don’t jump in because they treat us like adults. And who here is being racist?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
You are a little late on that one buddy.
Nice try, that would have been relevant about a year ago.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Yes, but you could try to come up
with something original at least.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
His tattoo choice is very poor, no doubt.
IMO, one should always look at their choice tattoos & what they could possibly be miscontrued as.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Nice try, that would have been relevant about a year ago.
Why is it not still relevant, did he cover it up?
by mythbuster on Jun 19, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nah, there’s a statute of limitations on tattoo-jokes it turns out.
Six more months and that stupid Kokopelli I got after a trip through the southwest will be off-limits.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Damn
and it was such an easy thing to joke about :(
You won this round, Mr. Lesnar, but I am waiting for your next tattoo!
For those who dont know, most HW matches in the NCAA are 1 or 2 point matches and very low scoring.
But against a guy like Mir with average speed Lesnar can pretty much go were he pleases with ease.
And Mir knows this. Mir is an idiot. Kinda like on the TUF when he is going to play soccer vs Nog and he says pre game that he is twice the athlete and he can beat him in any sport. The proceeds to look like an idiot out there and gets killed. But still says at the end it doesnt matter I’m better at everything else!! Mir you gotta love the loof!
I really enjoyed reading the comments in here – very informative and entertaining
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
thanks
some of the comments are entertaining in an unintentional way and some are informative in that we learned about some deep-seated ignorance on behalf of the commentators but for the most part it was a polite, civil and honest discussion which is what we shoot for.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 19, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I appreciate you guys letting us do this, too – it’s such a touchy subject, and I’m sure trying to keep it civil is a real bitch, but I think it’s worthwhile to have these kind of no-holds-barred discussions, here or elsewhere. Thank you for treating us like adults. I just hope I haven’t come across like a complete tool here.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 19, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
So Fightlinker is stealing your material
http://www.fightlinker.com/brock-doesnt-like-gay-jokes.mma
I would chalk this up as just a coincidence since Maxim is a big magazine and they may have just come across it on maxim.com but considering this interview has been out for a month now and their post came out a day after Kid Nate’s I have to think they are just being lazy.
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
Yes, because Nate was being super original by linking to somebody else’s interview and adding a tiny bit of commentary. Oh, wait…
This is just what blogs do.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
ah i rip off fightlinker all the time
if he saw it here first whatever, its not like i did a lot of original work here.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 20, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chris Tuchscherer
I see he’s mentioned in the article. Wonder how he’ll do against Gonzaga in August? Looks like he has a pretty good pedigree coming into the UFC.
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