Understanding the Significance of Tim Sylvia vs. Ray Mercer
by Luke Thomas on Jun 16, 2009 4:09 PM EDT
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If you're not reading Scott Christ over at BadLeftHook.com, I don't know what you're doing with your life. Christ positively nails what the only true significance of that abortion of a fight actually means:
Actually, let me continue with the Sylvia-Mercer thoughts. ESPN's MMA blogger, Jake Rossen, ran with the headline "Ray Mercer beats Tim Sylvia; boxing's death rattle delayed," and then called out boxing promoters with "inferiority complexes" about MMA, saying they'll be reveling in this. Here's the thing: Nobody gave a damn about the Sylvia-Mercer fight except MMA folks that were interested in what Sylvia was up to, and guys like me who are ridiculous weirdos. I really doubt Bob Arum had Mercer-Sylvia on his radar. This fight was a disaster. The fact that it resulted in something highly YouTubeable is meaningless. There are surely numbskulls out there that love boxing and hate MMA and think this mattered, but anyone rational couldn't really care less other than the outcome was memorable. Boxing isn't dead or dying, MMA still has room to grow, and neither Ray Mercer nor Tim Sylvia are likely to play vital roles in the future of either sport. Period. The idea that this fight "meant something" is melodramatic. It was a fat guy that didn't give a crap against an old guy that kinda did and can still throw a punch.
The only real take home lesson from this fight is that the universe's laws of biophysics are what we thought they were. No more, no less. Feel free to carry on.
Photo courtesy Sherdog.com.
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Only rarely have so many articles devoted so many words to an event that not only didn’t matter, but to arguing and proving that the event didn’t matter. Combat sports are weird.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Hey look, Rossen is an idiot, stop the presses
What did we learn? Don’t come in to a fight 45 pounds above your regular fighting weight.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 16, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
But wait
till the crap from boxing fans start that the former UFC heavyweight champ got beat by Mercer. This is far from over.
Give me a break. Christ hit the nail on the head. I watch a lot of boxing, follow it to an extent, but this event didn’t register on anyone’s radar. If someone actually tries to argue that boxing is better than MMA because of that fight, they are setting themselves up for ridicule.
I will say this… the whole argument that boxing isn’t dead or dying is another issue. It isn’t dead, and there has been a revival with big fights like Pacquaio/Hatton. Hopefully we won’t see a lull in these great fights. Until I see some consistency, I won’t shut the door on the whole “boxing is dying” argument. Boxing has ways to change things gravely.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
LOL, Honestly… I thought Clottey had won at first glance… but I plan on rewatching it. I’ve heard both sides, but I haven’t had any time to re-watch it.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Jun 16, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That fact that boxing can only put on one major Boxing PPV in the first 8 months of 2009 (perhaps longer), is not a good sign. Is it dead? No! But it certainly is looking real bad right now, especially when the UFC is getting record numbers during the recession.
And really, if it wasn’t for the UFC, boxing would be using the recession as an excuse for not putting on PPV’s. The reality is that they can’t because they lost the vast majority of their stars.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 16, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re still using the recession as an excuse. I’m not saying — by any means — that boxing promoters couldn’t be doing roughly 1,000 things differently that might hurt their pockets in the short-term but in the long-term make them more money and draw more positive attention to the sport. UFC is far more popular in part because it’s a business run about two million times better than the scattered, hard-to-follow boxing world. Some of the promoters seem to understand that big fights have to truly be between two great fighters. Other promoters like Lou DiBella still go, “Well my guy [Andre Berto in this case] just had a pretty tough fight, so now he deserves an easy one.” Who wants to watch a fight where there is zero intrigue?
by Scott Christ on Jun 16, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The strange thing about this is that some “boxing guys” might cling to it as a sign of boxing > MMA, but MMA guys looked at the event as a whole as a train wreck from the word go. For someone that follows both, like SC, he can plainly see that. But for someone who is locked on boxing they might add it into there argument not knowing the full story. Kimbo beat Mercer and NO ONE ever pointed to that as a reason MMA > boxing because they knew the back story. The whole match is a clusterfuck. Sylvia is the only loser in the whole thing. Boxing gains nothing. MMA gains nothing. Mercer gains a win bonus and lives to fight another day. Wait until Fedor v. Mercer. That will be the big time. That will mean… well, nothing also.
Where does Tim Sylvia’s loss rank among the top career destroying losses of all time? Is it above or below Kimbo’s loss to Seth Petruzelli?
below
Kimbo’s happened at the apex of the biggest career in MMA history (in terms of audience numbers and media exposure). Sylvia was already on a downward spiral and the fight was so underpromoted it wasn’t even on HDNet or PPV.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Kimbo lost all that audience, but Syliva had the biggest title in the world and got KOed at an untelevised event by an over the hill fat boxer in an MMA match in ten seconds.
Kimbo didn't even lose the audience...
he was still getting cheered after that fight.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 16, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t lose the crowd, but how big a draw is he now? I would say his bubble is somewhat popped. I think Syliva is more of a career crash. Like going from being CEO of a large company to getting fired from his job flipping burger. Most fans won’t know about the KO, but is a sad story.
Oh...
yeah. Kimbo lost some value. I just think people will still tune in because he has that “must see” factor. He lost the “untouchable monster” value…but i think there is still a lot there.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 16, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, to say the tim was fat is true, but Mercer looked to be with child and ready to pop. I guess you can say he put his weight into that punch?
Ok, proving nothing and having a little fun.
Okami > Anderson Silva > Leites > Marquardt > Gouveia > Petruzelli > Kimbo > Mercer > Sylvia (UFC Champ as late as a year and a half ago)
Fedor < TK < Rutten < Ken Shamrock < Ortiz < Liddell < Rampage < Sakuraba < Schembri
Schembri>Fedor.
Cung Le > Frank Shamrock > Phil Baroni > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva
Frank > Tito > Ken > Rutten > Frank
The loops are no fun. Are you trying to make robot heads explode? But the Cung Le > Silva one is good. I want to find one that makes a flyweight > Sylvia. Maybe I will explore dodson.
There’s an Andy Wang>Fedor one too but I can’t remember it.
flyweight> Sylvia or flyweight> Lesnar would be awesome.
Big Frog
Jeff “The Big Frog” Curran > Bennett > Noons > Diaz > Smith > Radach > Foster > Denes > Schafer > Alexander > Jardine > Vera > Mir > Lesnar
by szucconi on Jun 16, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec’d. That’s impressive.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 16, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Frank Mir > Big Nog > Bob Sapp > Seth Petruzelli > Kimbo Slice > Ray Mercer > Tim Sylvia > Arlovski > Vladimir Matyushenko > Lil Nog > Overeem > Mark Hunt > TK > Fedor
Food goes in here
You don’t need MMAmath to prove that Frank Mir is better than Fedor. ;-)
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 17, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Shame
It is kind of a shame that Kimbo holds a victory, submission no less, over a guy who beat an ex-UFC Heavyweight champ.
Not when that guy came into the fight 50 pounds over his normal fighting weight.
And Ricco Rodriguez gained a bunch of weight and lost to a few scrubs after he won the UFC title.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 16, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, I go away camping for the weekend and I return to Tim getting KO’d in 10 seconds to Mercer. I mean, I jokingly thought it would be amusing if Tim got KO’d, but I didn’t expect this. This fight says absolutely nothing about which sport is better – which was silly to begin with. The only thing it tells me is that Tim is pretty much done in the big leagues. I don’t think any major promotion could really have Tim on a main card again unless Tim goes through the tedious task of rebuilding everything from the ground up. And even then, it’s hopeless, cause boxing is pretty much out of the question for him, and the only people that cared about this were MMA folks who will always remember Tim for this loss. At 32 or 33 years of age, I don’t think Tim has it in himself to reinvent himself this late in the game. I hope he’s been saving his pennies over the years, cause I think the days of big fight pays are over for him.
I love me some Sexyama!
i dunno...
all those (ex) sherdog writers are hacks.
josh gross even admitted to having not watched the very last pride events. how can you cover MMA and not watch the last event of any major organization and call yourself a journalist?
It matters for the same reason any fight matters:
It was wildly entertaining!
Objectively these fights are all meaningless. They serve the sole purpose of helping us pass the time, unless you are a promoter or fighter, in which case they also make you rich.
Based on the fact I youtubed it 27 times, it was pretty succesful in meeting its goal!
That’s one hell of a survey sample size.
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 16, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!
Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot
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