The True (Lack of) Meaning in Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2009 1:12 PM EDT in News Comment 30 comments

Scott Christ at BadLeftHook sums up what the fight truly meant:

If anyone rational wants to know my opinion of what this means in the great pretend war between MMA and boxing, it means absolutely nothing. Listen, I've never met Tim Sylvia. I genuinely assume he's a nice guy. But I have no idea what kind of mindset he has right now other than a guess that it's not very good. He came in over 300 pounds for this fight, which means he didn't train and didn't take this seriously, which is stupid. I know we all think the fight was a joke -- and it was, it should not have happened -- but he was going in there to do a job, a dangerous job, and he didn't prepare. His career is completely in shambles now.

I couldn't agree more with the rest of Scott's feelings on the fight which are basically that A) this would be a nice sendoff for Ray (as long as he doesn't decide this means he has a career left ahead of him) and B) that Sylvia needs to get his head on right and maybe he can still turn his career back into something real going forward.

Beyond the personal meaning for both men, there really isn't anything more to read into this fight other than that boxers have a natural chance in any fight based on the fact that they're able to land one punch with small gloves and knock someone out. This is a true case of "every fight starts on the feet" actually meaning something.

-- photo via Sherdog.com

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I disagree. I think we’ve discovered Ray Mercer’s true calling.

BEING A LUMBERJACK!

Timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

by Sokonojudo on Jun 14, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He sleeps all night and he works all day.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 14, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

Sylvia appears now to be just showing up to cash a pay check. It’s sad really. I was never fan of Tim’s but he really never seemed to recover from the loss to Couture and then to Big Nog.

by pwdminotauro on Jun 14, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I don’t think Tim’s as bad as he’s looked lately. He’s a bit like Sean Sherk in that he’s had a great career, but the fans have never really liked him or his fighting style. I think it really bothers Sherk, and it might similarly affect Sylvia.

Look, I’ve been pretty critical of Sylvia and this boxing/MMA bout with Mercer, but I don’t want to see the guy fall apart. He’s a far better mixed martial artist than boxer, and I hope he can focus on MMA.

by Cannon Jacques on Jun 14, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what this means in the great pretend war between MMA and boxing, it means absolutely nothing

I don’t agree with this statement. Scott is right in saying that it shouldn’t matter, but to those who care about the “pretend war” between MMA and boxing the outcome of this fight is relevant.

Take for example Michael Wilbon on PTI. I remember in the week following the Pacquiao-Hatton fight Wilbon made a comment along the lines of “it’s nice to see some real fighting and not that UFC junk.” As long as people like Wilbon are going to compare MMA and boxing that way, any event like the Sylvia KO will have relevance, even if it shouldn’t.

by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

^this

so true.

by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well...

he means that to people who have a brain it should mean nothing. At this point do you really care what Wilbon thinks? Until he can start making money talking about MMA he is going to retain the same opinion. If a 50 year old boxer knocking out a 310 pound mma guy in a fight that was SUPPOSED to be boxing until 2 days before hand really proves some sort of point…then I guess we’re fucked as MMA fans.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it proves a thing. My argument is that this is the sort of event which is easily misinterpreted and therefore can easily be given undue weight in proportion to its actual relevance. I think the fact that Scott felt the need to write a few sentences about the meaninglessness of the fight suggests the potential for the Sylvia KO to get blown out of proportion. For better or worse there are people who care about a boxing vs. MMA debate, regardless of how stupid it may be.

by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

those are people I’ve stopped arguing with

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wilbon couldn’t even name the last 3 guys that have Manny has fought. if he was asked on the spot.

"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."

by Zocalo on Jun 14, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MMA and Boxing

Is no different than the dumb war involving Bloggers vs. Journalism.

MMA plays the same role as bloggers in being the hottest thing out there and everyone wants a piece of the action. There are several top quality leagues and the garbage ones (like EliteXC) get shoved aside in the same way crap blogs get dusted.

Boxing, like journalism, is a dying breed that very few people care about, more specifically this generation. But in a way they’re masters of their own supposed demise. The quality has decreased dramatically. Both boxing and journalism snap at their “rivals” by saying they lack credibility and are just a bunch of bums. All of the criticism is coming from the older generation and the folks that have been in the business for several year when they’re in denial that they’re profession is on the fringe.

I don’t care what Wilbon thinks because it’s his opinion and it’s up to us to think about whether or not we agree with him.

Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.

by SSreporters on Jun 14, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t agree with your analogy at all.

"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."

by Zocalo on Jun 14, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but Wilbon is a television personality with a national audience which views him as a credible source. If he spouts bullshit which the general public accepts as truth it does matter to a degree. Especially for MMA which is still dealing with a Bob Reilly or two.

by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Steven A Smith, Woody Page, Skip Bayless, and countless others are on TV… They are a bunch of idiots. Just because ESPN puts you on TV doesn’t mean that you are knowledgeable about whatever you are talking about.

Fact is that both boxing and MMA are niche sports. The general sports fan doesn’t care about the combat sports much to the disagrin to us who love combat sports.

"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."

by Zocalo on Jun 14, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that it matters too much

But I don’t think the numbers at all support that boxing is a ‘dying breed that very few people care about.’ It’s just a different market. Yes, MMA is more popular amongst white American males aged 18 – 45, and boxing has probably lost a pretty big chunk of that market for good, but if anything, boxing has become significantly more popular in the last few years as well. From 1995 – 2005, it really faded quite a bit, but it’s been bouncing back.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Jun 14, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My question is, what is up with Tim Sylvia’s manager Monte Cox? He set him up in a no win situation with this ridiculous booking. He completely mismanaged his career

by The Bronzeville Bully on Jun 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

/\ this

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Jun 14, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The stink of this loss will never wash off.

by Jahbulon on Jun 14, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I almost blame those that hire Cox/Pavia more than I do Cox/Pavia – if you don’t buy tickets to shitty movies, they’ll stop making shitty movies.

by subo on Jun 14, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its more apt to say, “If you don’t go to shitty movies you won’t have to sit through shitty movies”. They are going to keep making Madea movies no matter how many times I don’t see them.

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So the moral of this story was “Tim Sylvia is fat”? :D

I don’t think anything should be read into this except that fans really should be wondering what Tim and Monte were thinking when they put this together. Oh and apparently Mercer was calling out Butterbean after the fight so it sounds like he’s isn’t planning on hanging them up just yet, perhaps Monte Cox can sign that fight?

by who me on Jun 14, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

By using common opponents, Kimbo Slice is now ranked higher than Tim Sylvia.

by xDieseLx on Jun 14, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And using any measure at all...

..Jonathan Goulet is ranked higher than them both.

Hell, Rene Goulet is more of a draw. (big ups to old school WWF fans!)

If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.

by Ozzz on Jun 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said this before, sometimes your prime is lost in just one fight. You know maybe it just isn’t in him( Tim) anymore to be an elite fighter.

He didn’t respect his opponent at all given how he showed up overweight and ill prepared. You have Mercer, a guy who has fought all his life with 10 ounce gloves and is able to land flush with the puny 4 ounce gloves…

What is there to be learned? Nothing really. It just proves to everyone that boxers have the chance to end a fight quickly because they have one punch knockout power because all their lives they have been taught how to leverage their punches to give maximum momentum and power.

"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."

by Zocalo on Jun 14, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

a lot of people don’t get that. But it’s always been true that you can see people’s primes end mid-fight sometimes.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder what type of payday Sylvia earned to throw his career away.

by Jahbulon on Jun 14, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not much, I figure

Remember, if Timmy won, he was hoping to transition to a full time boxing career because he was eying boxing’s “stupid money.” Tim, you are truly a disgrace. At least Kimbo had the sense to immediately cut the distance and take Mercer down, instead of trying to circle and trade shots with a former Olympic Gold Medalist who hits like a cannon. I don’t care if Mercer is nearly 50 and way past his prime, Sylvia was just being an idiot.

Sylvia vs. Seth Petruzelli anyone?

by Chromium on Jun 14, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs