Another View on Mirko Cro Cop Leaving the UFC for DREAM
Zach Arnold can be relied on for the savvy but contrarian take:
Give credit to Ken Imai — he took his client, who had little or no leverage in the MMA marketplace, and Team Mirko managed to work over Dana White beautifully. He got his one fight against a relatively ’safe’ opponent and now will cash in with a new deal with DREAM.
No, Dana, Mirko didn’t screw you over. Ken Imai didn’t screw you over. They played you like a fiddle, but they didn’t screw you over. You gave them an opening, they took advantage of it like anyone would in this cutthroat business, and they turned it into something bigger and better.
...As for Mirko saying one thing and doing another to Dana’s face… well, take a look at Mirko’s past history in the fight business and how he handled his deal with power agent Miro Mijatovic before joining Ken Imai and Sakakibara in PRIDE. No surprises there. Dana made a one-fight deal with the devil and the devil acted like the devil does.
Our own Michael Rome responds in the comments:
A lawsuit is probably coming, with claims for breach of contract, fraud, violation of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing, detrimental reliance, and more.
We’d need to know the conversation to see if there was an oral contract, there may have been. And whether U.S. courts have jurisdiction is a close question, but the answer is probably yes. They can also sue abroad. If they do, Mirko will spend more money defending this than he "played" Dana for.
Commenter Chuck has another view:
I’m sure if this happened to Scott Coker, Monte Cox, Don King, Lou Dibella, Bob Arum, etc. no one would make this out to be a big deal. You know why? Because this shit happens ALL THE TIME!!!! Hell, I remember when KJ Noons left EXC suddenly, most people thought it was a great idea that he left the way he did. Very little difference than what happened here. Do you know how many small time promoters (of any combat sport, including pro wrestling) get burned by prospects leaving them when a bigger promoter comes around with more money? It happens all the time. Now people suddenly care when it happens to Dana White? Please!!! How hypocritical can you get?
Bloody Elbow #1 fan Alan Conceicaoo adds:
I do have to say one additional thing after waking up. Its pretty obvious DREAM wants to put on Cro-Cop/Fedor II. Its been talked about since mid 2008, but timing never came together for it. If Cro-Cop does fight Fedor, it puts some holes in the "he doesn’t want to fight legit guys" argument real quick. Of course, he won’t have earned it and will have no chance of winning, but that’s minor compared to the money and interest it can generate for them. Besides, everyone here would still watch.
Personally, I think its just the way life goes at every level from the biggest to the smallest. Dana needed/wanted Cro Cop to beef up a troubled German card. Cro Cop wanted a pay day and wanted to trigger a little bidding war for his services. Everybody got what they needed out of the deal and Cro Cop gets to ask Dana, "How taste my pee pee?"
UPDATE: Fightlinker has more:
The funny thing about this is that Dana just seems to keep getting fucked over by this strange nebulous group of PRIDE-related assholes. 364 days of the year, he keeps his poker face on and refuses to cut anyone any slack. But one day a year his inner PRIDE mark re-appears and he ends up cutting a deal that results in him getting fucked over. And people wonder why he’s not willing to co-promote or bend any rules. Because every time he does, he ends up like Charlie Brown trying to kick that damn football.
As for Mirko, I have no idea what he’s doing and at this point I am very close to not caring. Betraying the UFC doesn’t bother me all that much … Dana has done enough dickish things that it’s kinda refreshing to see him get clowned. But I’m just sick and tired of waiting for Mirko to get back into some kind of title picture that matters. DREAM’s heavyweight division isn’t a joke, but the way it’s booked is. With the UFC we were set to see Crocop vs Nog and Couture. With DREAM, who fucking knows? He could be fighting a dude dressed as a giant chili pepper. So that’s why I’m not too happy about this bullshit.
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72 comments
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Comments
I don't see the big deal
They had a one fight deal, he fought his one fight. Anything else is, as is.
As for feeling bad for Dana, I still remember the Fitch incident. I would find it very hard to feel bad for Dana for anything that happens, business-wise, as he has proven time and again that “business is business” for him.
by mythbuster on Jun 14, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well he swore on his word to his fans that he was going to be there for multiple fights and they had also agreed on the terms for two additional fights. Doing it to the UFC is one things, playing his own fans like that is on another level here.
“As Dana explained, we talked just on the phone, we didn’t meet,” Cro Cop said. “But this is definitely not my last fight in the UFC. You have my word for it.”
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
He is still going to be fighting, his fans will still be able to watch the fights (maybe even free) – who cares what banner it’s under?
And how is that a lie? Maybe he goes to dream for a few fights, then comes back to the UFC.
Personally I think this is mountain from molehill stuff.
by mythbuster on Jun 14, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly thing Dana White would sit down and negotiate a contract with him after this? Cro Cop burned that bridge pretty bad. The guy had to know he was signing with Dream when he was saying that, I mean he told Dana White he was leaving right after his fight.. He didn’t wait a week or even a day to have negotiations with anyone else he knew the whole time he was BS’ing everyone with these statements. That is my issue with the whole thing he negotiated to start with in bad faith and lied to his fans about his intentions, perhaps I’m old fashioned and actually take people keeping their word seriously but to get up there and talk about honor knowing you are full of it just doesn’t set well with me.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Cro Cop's on his final run in the fight game
and before he pulled this stunt he was unlikely to even get a decent deal with DREAM. This way he gets a nice 2 continent, 4 fight send off at a very good pay rate.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Jun 14, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly thing Dana White would sit down and negotiate a contract with him after this? Cro Cop burned that bridge pretty bad.
I guess you’re right. Dana would probably sign Couture before signing Cro-Cop! lol
oh wait…
by mythbuster on Jun 14, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
White always made it very clear that his issues weren’t with Randy they were with Randy’s management. That situation has nothing to do with this one.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has to do with burnt bridges, harsh talk, and business being business. Dana would sign Tito again if it made money.
Not sure why I’m even bothering, I really don’t even care about this issue 
by mythbuster on Jun 14, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point in Cro Cop’s career he’s not even Tito and lets face it at least Tito is open and honest about what kind of person he really is. He is nuts with his demands but he isn’t negotiating in bad faith. The issues between Dana and Tito are also personal issues not professional ones, that’s why Tito can still get Lorenzo to negotiate with him, I’ve got a feeling Cro Cop has about as much chance at getting anyone from the UFC to negotiate with him again as Mark Dion does.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What fans? Pulling a fast one on Dana, gotta give him props if he managed to do that and not get screwed legally. Lying to your fans and then pulling a scummy move, that is just not cool. BJ Penn has more class than that.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 14, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody gives a damn about DANA’s feeling right know. Seriously i’ve only seen people pissed at cropcop for screwing the UFC fans.
by spectaa on Jun 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously i’ve only seen people pissed at cropcop for screwing the UFC fans.
You said it, brother, and I agree.
by mythbuster on Jun 14, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Commenter Chuck has another view:
I disagree with this completly, if it had happened to any of the other big players in MMA then there would be a similar outcry from a lot of people. It would be different if Cro Cop hadn’t lied about his intentions but that is the issue here, he didn’t just up and leave like other fighters do when they get a better offer he publically lied about his intentions to his owns fans and it really seems that the whole thing was a set up from the start, that he went into the UFC this time knowing he was going to Dream already and mislead everyone about it. That is the issue that people didn’t like not the fact that Dana White got screwed, sometimes people can’t see beyond their own bias on White and the UFC but those same people would of been howling the loudest if Cro Cop had ditched Dream this way and ran off to the UFC in the same manner.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
There are several different things at work here. Acknowledging the fact that you don’t like how Cro Cop went about this isn’t tantamount to saying that you feel sorry for Dana White or that this type of transaction doesn’t occur that often. Personally, I really don’t feel too bad for the UFC, and I’m sure this crap happens a lot in the fight game. With that said, I still don’t have to like it. The UFC did get what they needed in the short-term, and Cro Cop, evidently, got what he wanted. The loss of Cro Cop doesn’t blow a hole in the UFC’s heavyweight division. However, I still put value on honesty.
Zach Arnold’s “contrarian” view sort of sounds like the anti-Dana White/UFC view. I find his delineation between getting “screwed” and getting “played like a fiddle” shaky at best. Either you approve of saying one thing and doing another, or you don’t. It doesn’t matter who you are, whether it’s a big or small organization. I’m certainly not going to lose sleep over it, but I wonder what Arnold would have written if Cro Cop had lost and White went back on a supposed verbal agreement for two more fights?
by Cannon Jacques on Jun 14, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn Cro Cop gangstered Dana and the UFC. Took the tune up and is off to Dream, typical politician. Well played sir.
-Jason High (twitter.com/kcbandit)
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 14, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nope, he's american... wait.. is that a joke?
are you asking me if im high or something? haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 15, 2009 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
As a fan I don’t really care. I think Crocop is no longer an elite HW regardless so his leaving the UFC doesn’t change much. I wouldn’t mind seeing him fight Overeem again or fighting Brett Rogers.
As to the situation, I think it’s actually a bad thing for fighters long term. After this Dana is never going to do a verbal contract again. He’s going to be uber-careful so he doesn’t get screwed.
Legally I don’t think Dana can do shit. Rome’s comment is most likely off base because Crocop has fulfilled his part of the oral contract. I think it’s clear from both side’s comments that the ‘contract’ was a one-fight deal. Both sides agreed to have one fight and that contract was fulfilled. Nothing else was agreed. Crocop’s ‘promise’ doesn’t really mean anything even though it was a public comment. Dana can show no damages whatsoever.
Basic contract law requires offer and acceptance. In this case there was neither. I’m pretty sure that Dana’s legal team will advise him in the same way. There won’t be a lawsuit.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They had written out the one fight deal according to what Dana said, that was a signed fight. It’s the other two fights that they agreed on that would be the issue for a lawsuit. Did he verbally agree to the other two fight deal or did he just agree to terms to lead them on without actually saying yes to the deal? Personally I think that legally he will be clear but it was a pretty crappy thing to do.
White had signed Filipovic less than a month ago to a one-fight deal, the first time in more than nine years that he’d done that. He had worked out terms on two additional fights, but said he’d only put pen to paper for Saturday’s bout.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legally i think he's home free
Not just because of the lack of contract, but because of the whoe jurisdictional issue as well. Basically it would be huge hassle to sue Crocop and win anything. If Dana is a smart businessman (which I think he is)
he wouldn’t waste his money doing that. If he did sue it would be a face thing. Dana’s much better at running an MMA company than anyone else in the world and he might sue just to try to make sure nobody ever gets away with this again, but to be honest in the short term the most Dana can achieve would be to stop Crocop fighting in the US until a conclusion on the case is reached. Which could take years.
Is it a crappy thing to do….yeh.
I don’t really see the UFC as ‘losing’ though, because they got what they needed (a fighter who would be a European draw) and his leaving doesn’t really affect the division very much,
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also – i really want to see what mmalogic has to say about this….hahaha
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My number one question
is what is Mirko’s motivation for doing this? I don’t think Mirko is in need of money so that motivation doesn’t fly for me.
He doesn’t really gain that much.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wanting money =/= needing money. Maybe he wants to by a castle and shit.
by spectaa on Jun 14, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
But the less you need money the less you’ll give up for it. If he’s in need of money then I understand this move (not agree….but understand) but I really don’t think he is. So why trade your integrity in for a one fight pay day?
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It gives him leverage in his negotiations with DREAM. Plus a UFC fight increases his profile, making it a little easier to sell fights in Japan.
by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was so obviously premeditated that I have to think that the Dream contract was already on the table before he signed his one fight deal.
Crocop’s profile in Japan is already pretty massive so I doubt beating Al-Turk is going to do anything for it.
The way I think this may have gone down is this:
Crocop really did intend to go back to the UFC. His Dream contract was coming to an end and he wasn’t really happy with the money. He begins negotiations with Dana and is prepared to sign a deal but Dream comes in with a massive contract offer. He doesn’t really want to pull out of the UFC negotiations (maybe because the offer was really good) so he sits on the Dream contract and agrees with Dream that he’ll make public noises about fighting in the UFC. Dream agrees therefore Crocop is in a position of power. Knowing that Dana will probably pull his ‘one fight deal’ if he knows Crocop is negotiating with other parties, Crocop publicly voices his intention to stay in the UFC (to ease Dana’s fears).
Then he fights and then signs the massive contract with Dream.
But the motivation is still money…..which I don’t get. I love money like the next guy but to give up your integrity for one fight (maybe he got 150K) doesn’t really seem smart…..
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it was definitely premeditated. My guess is he used the possibility of a UFC deal to leverage DREAM for more money, but I doubt anyone will no what actually happened.
Cro Cop comes out of this looking kinda bad, but it doesn’t matter as long as people are willing to pay and watch his next fight.
by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would buy the “leverage with Dream” bit if it wasn’t for the timing of all this, he didn’t wait even a day after the event to tell Dana he was going with Dream. Either they called him in the shower after his fight with a new mega-deal or he was playing everyone along from the start knowing he was already going with Dream, heck for all we know he could of already signed with Dream before he signed with the UFC and just didn’t tell the UFC about it.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right. I meant to imply that CroCop wasn’t negotiating in good faith with the UFC and was negotiating with DREAM on the side all along, but that really wasn’t clear in my response at all.
by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for as many fighters as the UFC and, more to the point, Dana White has screwed over throughout the years, i think it’s funny that Dana is crying foul over this. I’m not sure that there’s another sport out there that cashes in on it’s talent more so than MMA and specifically the UFC. I’m not sure this version of CroCop is worth signing for more fights, and besides, if he fought someone legit and got creamed like his last trip through the UFC, they would drop him just as fast as he dropped them. No one seems to care all that much when fighters make up all sorts of BS to hype fights before hand, so why are we now caring that a fighter (a really washed up one) pulled a fast one on Dana and the Boys? Japan is the perfect place for Mirko. he makes more money, they love him there, and no one cares if he wins or not. He may or may not NEED the money, but who’s going to begrudge him making it? get over yourselves here people. it’s his life, let him live and or ruin it on his own
by erogers72 on Jun 14, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PEople don’t really gives a damn about cropcop I think, they are only disappointed they won’t see those fights that could have happen if had stayed. As a MMA fan I’m not really excited by this news. Crocop can do the hell he wants, even illegally I don’t care, all I like in mma is what goes on in the ring anyway (thanks to things like grease gates and “No surrender!”).
by spectaa on Jun 14, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The excuse of “I don’t like the UFC so this is ok” is the lamest excuse for this ever and for some reason it keeps popping up. It doesn’t matter that he pulled it with the UFC it’s that he pulled it at all that people are upset over. I mean I would honestly like to think the fighters are of a higher character than Dana White.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
CC was never going to be UFC Champ anyway
However, I will be actively rooting against Cro Cop from now on. I prefer people with honor.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Off topic
Crocop would never beat Lesnar. But Crocop could conceivably beat Frank Mir. Even in his current condition I would give Crocop that fight maybe 75% of the time.
If Mir beat Lesnar again and Crocop fought Mir for the belt we could very possibly be champ.
Styles make fights.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. Cro Cop’s ground game is garbage. Frank would submit him without too much trouble.
Cro Cop would also never beat Carwin or Velasquez.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way. If Fedor couldn’t submit Crocop then I highly doubt Mir could. I also highly doubt Mir could get the fight to the ground in the first place.
I agree that he wouldn’t beat Carwin or Velasquez. Basically anyone with the ability to put him on this back for a long period of time.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mir would rip Mirko’s leg off and put it on his mantle along with his other awards, Mirko has no takedown defense and would be easy picking for Frank.
by Raker on Jun 14, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a work!
Someone on Fightlinker made the point and I agree that this whole schism between Mirko and Dana White is probably fake. The UFC’s position is that they never do one off fight deals with the guys signed to other promotions. And yet, that’s exactly what happened here. I don’t believe the whole “oral contract” line. The fact of the matter is that Dana will do one off fight deals with guys signed to other promotions if it makes business sense as Cro Cop fighting in Germany most certainly did.
Of course don’t expect Dana to admit it!
by pwdminotauro on Jun 14, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a possibility
But Mirko would need to have been paid handsomely to actually agree to this because he comes off like he has no integrity.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an intriguing angle
Dana gets Cro Cop in Germany, DREAM has to raise their bid for Cro Cop, Cro Cop doesn’t have to get mauled by Cain, Carwin or Lesnar. Win/win/win.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Jun 14, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well except for the fact that Cro Cop publically trashed his own reputation in the business and comes off looking like a lowlife out of it. Even if it was a work his personal reputation takes a public beating.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's about reputation, not CC VS Dana White
Let’s pretend CC is Brock Lesnar. Okay?
Brock says: “I only want to fight the best of the best! I want the UFC HW belt!”
Then we find out that Brock turned down Frank Mir as his first fight and chose Jake O’Brien instead. Then, after 2 min of defense, he went on the offense for a little bit, then pokes O’Brien in the eye and wins the match.
Afterward, he tells his fans that he just signed a 3 fight deal with Dream.
What would Brock Lesnar’s reputation be now? Do you think the fans think he wants to fight the best of the best? Do you think the fans think he’s not afraid of anyone? Do you think the fans believe he wants the belt? No, the fans would crucify him. Say what you will about Brock, he’s a man of his words and deserve the accolades he’s gotten.
CroCop is a coward and a liar. It’s funny how MMA fans would crucify Brock Lesnar for not deserving the belt by beating “an old man” but defend CroCop for his actions of the past few weeks. Additionally, they are throwing a straw man argument (Zach Arnold, I’m talking to you) of Dana White getting what he deserves. Two wrongs make a right, and business is business. This has nothing to do with Dana White but everything to do with with what’s left of CroCop, the man and the MMA fighter. Without honor, without confidence, and without fear, what is left of an MMA fighter? Nothing but a trained circus act.
by cyph on Jun 14, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Perfect analogy
Reccedy rec rec’d. Lesnar would’ve been eviscerated for doing the same thing. I guess the difference is Brock was a pro wrestler, whereas the rest of CC’s career will largely rest on knocking out current pro wrestlers. Sad.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of the defense of Cro Cop has to do with people’s dislike of Dana. Deserved or not, Dana has a reputation for being a difficult negotiator who screws over fighters. My guess would be a lot of fans enjoying the fact that Dana is the one getting the short end of the stick for once.
My personal take is Cro Cop pulled a fast one on the UFC. He wasn’t negotiating in good faith and was using Zuffa to leverage DREAM. I don’t have any evidence to back that up, its just a guess. If it’s true I think it reflects poorly on Cro Cop. With that said, I don’t feel much pity for Zuffa. It’s not like they needed him and its not like Zuffa hasn’t cut people or done questionable things in the past. It’s an ugly business for both sides and these kind of things will happen. Nobody needs to be excommunicated from MMA over this.
by Andy R on Jun 14, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My problem with it is not the dealings with Dana and Zuffa. CroCop, if this was his plan all along, should have kept it hush hush and string Dana and Co along privately. He should not have gone on forums, interviews, and his website telling the fans all the BS if he knew it to be false. That’s why many fans feel betrayed. Don’t tell us you want the belt and don’t tell us you want to fight Randy Couture and the best in the UFC. I can’t disparage him for wanting money, but I don’t think he needs to misrepresent himself to the fans. The CroCop who won the OWGP is long gone.
by cyph on Jun 14, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Definitely the CC who won the OWGP is gone
I also agree that this was his plan all along. I’m thinking the forum posts were his way of getting Dana to agree to the one-fight-deal. Dana probably would have needed more assurance than CC’s ‘word’ so what better way than to go public.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would Brock Lesnar’s reputation be now?
his reputation would have been further justified. i mean, cmon. i shouldnt need to jog your memory on his his past. everyones buddy zach arnold probably still hasnt forgiven him for holding that wrasslin belt hostage.
by nigelzackit on Jun 14, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and Zach Arnold still hates the UFC.
It seeps into every piece of his writing I happen to come upon. I’m sure that, when Dana acts in a way he disagrees with regarding fighters, he blames the fighters because Dana’s reputation precedes him. That’s basically what he’s saying here – Dana’s a dick, Cro Cop didn’t screw him, well wait he did but that’s his MO and it’s Dana’s fault for trying.
What a tool.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Arnold has a bullshit article up too
About how the UFC is rushing their young talent too quickly in the interest of title fights. I’m going to go ahead and crosspost this (and hopefully preempt any front page coverage here because this whole thing is SILLY):
They’re handling Stefan Struve and Junior dos Santos (now both with UFC wins and bright futures) beautifully. Let’s fucking see how those pricks in Japan put Ishii against Godzilla and a battleship in a handicap match. Or take a legitimate wrestling prospect, put him in a mask (that ends up costing him the fight) and have him fight Bob Sapp in his fucking debut.
Dos Santos is fighting Justin McCully next. He beat Werdum – a rumored opponent for Fedor post-Barnett. In the non-UFC world, he’d be fighting Fedor.
If the UFC does this, they’re fast tracking guys into oblivion. If they only sign veterans, they’re making it impossible for up and coming fighters to make a decent living. It’s fucking lose lose in the media with the Jordan Breens and the Zach Arnolds. DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM. KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. MIX IT UP, GIVE PEOPLE CHANCES AND FUCK THE CONSTANT HATE THAT FOLLOWS YOUR SUCCESS.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I'm sorry it's Breen
I genuinely mix them up all the time.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have some respect
Breen’s one of, if not THE best analyst in the sport.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Jun 14, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone break out the shut up subo gif
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Jun 14, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole thing is a bit silly, they used Fitch as an example yet people bitched for a long time that Fitch was getting overlooked and screwed by the UFC, same with Machida. You can’t have it both ways either they are pushing guys too fast or holding fighters back. Besides the UFC isn’t the developmental league they sign guys who have been developing in the regionals and expect them to come in ready for the big show.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t look good for CC, but story by Iole and D. White? I won’t blindly believe it. I heard once that Couture makes billions in PPV revenue.
Here’s a few of the wholes in the story I want cleared up first.
1. Did Dana get the chance to match Dream’s offer? (I doubt he would, but did he get the chance).
2. Is CC not telling anybody, but Dana that he accepted offer with DREAM? Why would he not comment on it?
3. Is it wrong for CC to want to be UFC champion, and still get respected by getting paid to do it?
4. How bad did Dana really want CC?
5. Who want’s to fight a nobody like Valasquez, He’s one of the best fighters nobody knows about? Where’s the upside for CC and how was Dana being respectful to him in demanding it?
6. How did the terms of the 3 fights Dana had “worked out”. Were they guaranteed? Were win and loses paid the same?
7. Did CC really signed with Dream before his fight? Other sources than Dana please.
8. Is this DREAM contract exclusive? Is there a provision that he could also fight for UFC?
0. Who were the numerous opponents that Dana White said CC turned down? I know of Velasquez but who else?
10. What effort did Iole put out to get a CC response to the Dana White quotes he used in his article?
by natyong on Jun 14, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When did you hear that Couture made “billions”? They showed what he made and Randy didn’t deny it. Their issue was what money came from a signing bonus or a backstage bonus not that Randy didn’t make that much money off the UFC.
As far as Cro Cop replying to all this, he has:
Q: Can you comment on signing for DREAM?
“No comment, that is my private business relations.”
http://sport.dnevnik.hr/clanak/cro_cop/cro-cop-bez-komentara-to-je-poslovna-tajna.html
After days of talking up his plans for his fighting future with the UFC to anyone who would listen now he is going with no comment about his signing with Dream.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I’m sorry but I thought the “billions” would be seen as an obvious exaggeration, kinda like the numbers that did eventually came out. Randy didn’t deny then as they weren’t important to the case he was trying to make. I’m just skeptical of Iole presenting a biased story, if you don’t think he so then, I’m not going to try and change your mind. I just want other sources before hand.
by natyong on Jun 15, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with wanting other sources than Kevin Iole, we all know that he might as well be a UFC employee and this whole situation keeps becoming wierder and wierder the more information that comes out. Still you shouldn’t just discount what Iole write either, you can pretty much guarantee if he wrote it then it came directly from Dana White and there are a lot of things in there that White just wouldn’t make up. Hell I hope the whole thing is wrong and Cro Cop isn’t a guy who bold faced lied to his fans, nothing would make me happier than to say I was wrong on this one but there is just something fishy about this entire situation still.
As for the Randy thing yea I figured you were exagerating which was the point, you made light of those numbers and discounted them even though they turned out to have a lot of meaning. If you just discount the report out of hand like that then you miss a lot of the stuff that went on around that and what the actual story turned out to be. Heck much of what we actually know about how the UFC functions with it’s fighter pay comes from Randy Couture and this situation.
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dana didn’t ‘demand’ CC fight Cain – Herring got sick and he needed a replacement. And nobody gets paid the same for wins and losses – that’s why it’s called a win bonus.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously White didn’t demand that Cro Cop fight anyone, if he had demanded that then we wouldn’t of seen Cro Cop get to fight the guy he wanted to fight on the card. Heck it’s supposed to be the promoters who decide the fights not the fighters in the first place, what is odd here is that Cro Cop got to hand pick his opponent not that White wanted him as a late replacement to fight Cain. That sounds like someone who is letting their personal feelings on the UFC override basic common sense. Scepticism is a good thing but it shouldn’t blind people to the obvious.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has CroCop really signed with Dream?
Not the best of translations, but here’s what Google translator makes of this article: http://jutarnji.hr/sport/borilacki_sportovi/clanak/art-2009,6,14,,166592.jl
"President of UFC’s Dana White was unfairly accused Mirko Filipovic for treason
ZAGREB – The same Saturday night in which Mirko Filipovi? for only three minutes nokautirao Britain Mostapha Al Turk, President of American Organization UFC Dana White neargumentirano has accused the Croatian master free fight for the fraud and hypocrisy.
Cro Cop izigrao UFC and goes in a Dream?
Ten days ago Dana White and Cro Cop have a phone made arrangements for the duel on the UFC 99 tournament in kölnskoj Lanxess Arena, leaving open the possibility that cooperation produlji the two tournaments. However, the head of the UFC on Saturday felt circumvented because it is thought that the Croatian gladiator signed a contract with the Japanese Dream.
more of the fields
Combat Sports
- Mirko talks about honor and pride, and not held by his word. Told me that he wants to win the UFC’s title, only to then went to the Dream. And tonight I got a fly in the ointment, not only Al Turk – told reporters in the White Cologne.
Before you accuse Filipovi?a for hypocrisy, zagreb Whiteovih below empty phrase of honor. UFC leader is angry because Mirko, just as even the best ultimate fighter world; Fyodor Jemjeljanjenko, did not agree to commit two more appearances in the following year.
However, it is not true or that Cro Cop priklonio Dream. Learned that it is not signed, nor for whom, and that it is ready to discuss any offer. Moreover, Mirko is immediately after the victory kölnske expected conversation with Whiteom and surprised the charges UFC’s president.
- I’m not clear why the White nasjeo on rumors instead of talking with me. I was hoping that we will talk about the continuation of cooperation, because the only contentious item for a long period between performances. I do not want to sit for months at home and wait for that someone called me to fight. However, I am grateful for the opportunity Whiteu in Cologne and in spite of his heavy words, I do not see reason to not produljimo agreement – explained Mirko after returning from Germany.
White is Cro Copa invited to fight in Cologne in order to use his charisma most popular European fighter, and had proposed two more match, with the condition that should not be fighting under other flags. " Since the Dream also offers three fights, but in only six months, do you wonder what is Mirko still considering both offers?
Outcome of this story can be expected in the coming days. Given the loss of Whiteov in Cologne, it seems that Mirko zasad ring closer to the Japanese than American octagon."
by Kilmer on Jun 14, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So it sounds like Dana got the report in the Japanese press that MIrko signed with Dream and flipped out without even going to Cro Cop to confirm it.
by Michael Rome on Jun 14, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
then all cc needs to do is speak out and tell us his side. he did skip the pressconference, so i don’t think dana just went by a japanese newspaper.
by bdw on Jun 14, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn’t explain Cro Cop’s refusal to comment. Something still stinks here.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey if he hadn’t signed with DREAM you think that he wants to continue a he said she said with the man who he still wants to pay his bills. You try and get that worked out in private.
Plus if he does come out and and says he’s signed with DREAM and he hasn’t they can screw him just like he has supposedly tried to screw Dana. There is a reason most promotions don’t comment on potential fighters and fights, The same reason some fighters shouldn’t.
DREAM doesn’t want it known that it lost a bidding war to UFC. Could the contract Dana mentions just be a contract that he give them a chance to beat any other offers? Could it be a contract for K-1? Could it just be a contract to be in EA video game fighter?
I’m not going to call either man a liar until I get the whole story.
by natyong on Jun 15, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Japanese media is saying that Cro Cop signed with Dream, White is saying that Cro Cop informed him that he had signed with Dream and now Cro Cop is saying that he hasn’t signed with anyone. It’s all a big mess but even with Cro Cop’s new comments it seems that he hasn’t taken the two fight UFC deal that they had agreed to terms on already.
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s come out so far:
Kevin Iole’s article
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;ylt=AiO3sC4oPNbC0qyEbM1wRI9Eo14?slug=ki-ufcnotes061409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
A Japanese News report that Cro Cop signed with Dream before UFC 99
http://nightmareofbattle.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/mirko-3-fight-deal-reported-in-japan-even-before-ufc-99/
Cro Cop saying that this was private business
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/14/908915/quote-of-the-day-ariel-helwani
Cro Cop saying that he didn’t sign with anyone
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/14/909422/report-mirko-cro-cop-denies
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Iole article stated:
Filipovic informed UFC president Dana White that he had signed a three-fight contract with the Japan-based DREAM.Now Iole is so far up Dana’s ass he can see out his nose but that also means that he would of got the story straight from Dana too. We don’t know how Dana was informed but that is a very definate statement that he was informed by Cro Cop from him. Dana is a lot of things (slimy things that scare small children in stories)but he’s never been one to directly lie about something like this. So who told this to Dana and how was the message delivered and why is Dana saying he was informed of this by Cro Cop?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn’t give a shit that Mirko lied to Dana’s face, thats business. But you don’t get on the mike and tell your fans that you are going to run at the title and going to fight Couture and Nog while knowing you are going back to Japan the next day. I was a huge CC fanboy but now he has lost all credibility and respect.
by brad23 on Jun 14, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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