Mirko CroCop Already Done With UFC, Signs Again With Dream
by Lynchman on Jun 14, 2009 12:07 AM EDT
257 comments
This Fan Post was promoted to the front page by Nick Thomas.
Kevin Iole is reporting that Mirko has signed a new deal with Dream. According to Dana White, Mirko notified them shortly after his bout at UFC 99.
In addition, White said that Mirko turned down several opponents for 99, including Cain:
“He didn’t keep his word,” White said, who said he’d had a two-hour talk with Filipovic on the day Filipovic texted and asked to be able to return. “He talked about honor and all this other [expletive] and he [expletived] me.
“He fed me this bull [expletive] about wanting to take a run for the title, and what I think he did was, he went out and did this. He turned down every other [expletive] fighter I offered him, because I needed him to fight Cain. He didn’t just poke Al-Turk; he poked me, too.”
Since Mirko verbally agreed to a one fight deal, he had every right to go elsewhere after the bout. But it certainly looks like he never intended to compete in the UFC. I am guessing he either
A) Planned it with Dream in hopes of garnering publicity
or
B) Used the UFC deal to get Dream to pony up more money.
Either way, this does not exactly enhance Mirko's legacy.
**Edited by Luke Thomas.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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he probably did B. crocop is a smart ass guy.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I love how everyone is jumping Mirko’s shit, like he’s some kind of complete asshole.
Fact of the matter is, there are always 2 sides to a story, and the truth generally lies in the middle. All I know is that Crocop stepped in at the last minute against a solid opponent, and looked impressive. If Dana’s butt hurt that Mirko decided not to sign with the UFC after a 1- fight verbal contract, then that’s his problem.
But the fact that DW is complaining about how Crocop wouldn’t step up and fight Cain V, means that he really is bitter and delusional. Velasquez isn’t the kind of guy that you fight on short notice, especially when you’re in a situation like Mirko is, where he’s trying to build some momentum, and mount a legitimate career comeback. Kongo took the fight with Cain full well knowing the risk/ benefit factor, and to his credit, he had his moments. However, if you really want to prepare for CV (especially when you’re primarily a striker), then serious wrestling training is necessary.
Dana seems pretty butt hurt over something that he didn’t really get shafted on.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 14, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was a huge Cro-cop fan but it’s pretty clear CC contacted the UFC, not the other way around. Either he planned it from the beginning or Dream offered him more money after the announcement of the 1 fight deal, either way I’m pretty disappointed.
by brad23 on Jun 14, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You "WERE" a fan?
If you were a real fan of his, you would like him because of what he’s done in Kickboxing and MMA, as well as liking his style, not what you percieve to be a ‘dirty’ business practice.
It’s pretty obvious that CC won’t accomplish much more in combat sports, so if you’re turning on him now, when he’s at the tail end of his career, then you were never a true fan.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 14, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last thing on your avatar
Is it Kerri Sweets?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Jun 14, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are
correct, sir.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 15, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he cares about honor and keeping your word. Which this action shows Crocop does not care about, and he can go flush down the toilet for all I care.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 14, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless
this story isn’t telling the whole truth, which I expect it isn’t.
The fact that he’ll turn on one of his ‘favorite fighters’ on the drop of a hat probably means that he isn’t exactly the most loyal fan in the first place.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 15, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
USAtoday confirmed with Dream that Cro Cop signed.
Soon after beating Mostapha al-Turk on Saturday at UFC 99, Filipovic told UFC officials that he has signed a three-fight deal with the Japanese organization Dream, Yahoo Sports’ Kevin Iole first reported. The news was later confirmed to me in an e-mail from Mike Kogan, who runs the U.S. operation of Dream’s parent company, Fighting and Entertainment Group.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2009/06/68081121/1
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a load of crap. If someone was a fan of a human being and they found out that human being wasn’t the person they thought they were then of course they won’t be a fan anymore. His actions in the ring are only part of the equation as to why people liked him.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about anyone else
but first and foremost, I’m a fan of fighters because of what i’ve seen from them inside the ring/ cage/ mat.
For example, I’m a big fan of Matt Hughes, because he’s rarely ever in a boring fight (even though I don’t like his personality at all). Same with Nick Diaz- I don’t really like him as a person, but he has some very exciting fights.
Not to say that I don’t like to watch fighter interviews, and that I don’t keep track of what kind of person a fighter comes off as, but first and foremost, I’m a fan of fighters based on what they do in competition.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 15, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like my sports heroes to actually be on a higher level than Dana White and I don’t think that is too much to ask. Heck it happens all the time that when a public figures is shown to be different than their public image people get upset about it. it might not bother you but you should recongize that it obviously will bother a heck of a lot of people.
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's your perogative.
But all i’m saying is that i’m not gonna get ass hurt about Crocop’s business dealings. I enjoy his fighting style, and will always be a fan (even if he is slowing down).
Not to mention all the conflicting stories right now; it’s pretty obvious that the truth isn’t quite clear yet.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 15, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not my perogative it’s just a statement of how things are, of course people who are fans are athletes are going to be upset if they turn out to be different people outside of the sport than the fans thought they were.
As far as the conflicting stories, the UFC says Cro Cop signed with Dream, Dream says Cro Cop signed with Dream and Cro Cop says he hasn’t signed with anyone, obviously there is more going on than meets the eye but it really is odd that both the UFC and Dream are saying that Cro Cop is signed with Dream.
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was saying
that it’s your perogative to hold fighters (like Crocop) to a higher standard than Dana. Nevermind the fact that he’s the president of the largest MMA org on the globe, or that he’s supposed to be professional (entailing that he’s an honorable businessman), and that Crocop is just trying to feed his family.
Anyone who’s judging Mirko for what he’s doing is living in some kind of fantasy world.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 15, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not “trying to feed his family” he is making very large sums of money.
And yes people will hold him to the standard that if he lies to them or misleads them with what he is saying they will be very disappointed, that’s life. Lord knows if Dana sneezes someone somewhere will say he’s evil.
by who me on Jun 15, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
'Large sums of Money'
You do understand that after an athlete stops competing, they really don’t have a steady source of income, right? So in order to be able to do all the things which most people try to do (own a house, pay for kids college, shore up retirement funds), a fighter has to be very smart and efficient with how they save and allocate their money.
If Mirko is trying to maximize his profits, and prolong his career, then I honestly don’t have a problem with it. Especially considering that he’s still widely regarded as a very capable HW fighter (I believe the metarankings have him in the top 15)
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 16, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He says himself he already has plenty of money, he’s a politician, a counter terrrorist and makes movies(and terrible video games) and was even signed to a soccer team in his home country. He’s a freaking national icon over there. I doubt he will have much of a problem after his MMA career is over. This isn’t Jens Pulver we are talking about here.
by who me on Jun 16, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder what mmalogic has to say about this quote -
"Isn’t that a dirty [expletive] thing to do?" White asked rhetorically after being queried about Filipovic’s deal with DREAM. "He [expletived] me. The first time in the history of the company I do one over the phone. He promised me a three-fight deal and he [expletived] me."
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
First and last time for everything – this is both. Good luck getting special treatment now, Fedor/anyone.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
itll happen again the next time the ufc needs to move a lot of tickets somewhere. when and where, who knows. what i do know is it makes that talk about how smart a move for it was look hilarious.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC isn’t hurt at all by this. It’s still extra heat for the event. Dana will never extend this courtesy to another fighter again – that’s a guarantee.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not disagreeing with the first part. the second part: who knows. they may never have another germany situation again. or they might in 6 months. time will tell.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t imagine that White will ever go out on a limb for a fighter again. What is this German situation you are speaking of? That they were already selling tickets at a decent pace without him and that he was added to the card so late they couldn’t advertise him properly to the locals anyway? He didn’t bring that much to the card at the point he was added to it.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
them not having many tickets sold in a 20000 seat arena. thats not something thatll happen in the us anytime soon for the big shows.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well they know that the first show in a new area is a risk, that’s part of expansion. I don’t see why they would be so desperate to sell a couple thousand extra tickets for this show locally when they know that it’s their first show in the area anyway. Besides the real money is made off these shows through US ppv not the ticket sales and due to the fact that this was a afternoon PPV they knew those sales would be questionable to start with too. This event was designed to get a toe hold in Germany not to make any real money, if they were just wanting to make big money off this single show they could of done it in Vegas and guaranteed much larger numbers that any UFC event in Germany could ever hope of earning.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that its a risk doesnt mean theyre okay with an empty building or not selling tickets. add in that sweet talk and they got played hard.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They sold plenty of tickets with or without him on the card, he was added so late that it really didn’t matter that much and Cro Cop vs Al-Turk wasn’t worth squat for PPV sales(where the actual money is made for the UFC).
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i pointed out the numbers below. if you want to believe otherwise, youre allowed. its just that theres no precedent for it.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what the numbers are I am saying that they weren’t that bad considering that they were trying to break into a entirely new market. This event wasn’d designed to make a lot of money it was designed to get a toe hold in Germany. They sold enough tickets for that purpose with or without Cro Cop as a late addition to the card.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If what Dana White said is true, then Mirko Filipovic is a scumbag. At least be honest about his intentions before signing a contract.
The UFC would have never given Fedor a 1 fight deal anyways because his circumstances were different then Cro Cop’s. But this just makes it official.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jun 13, 2009 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Mirko lost the fight yesterday, do you honestly think the UFC would offer him a 3 fight deal? Especially after last visit with the UFC?
http://andheneverwilldies.ytmnd.com/
by monkeyfightclub! on Jun 14, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Cro Cop plans on dicking the UFC over just so he could get a fight with Mustapha al-Turk I don’t see what the comparison is,
Me from the last thread……. I guess I was 100% wrong. I never expected he would pull such a scumbag move just to get a fight with Mustapha al-Turk. I lost all respect for the man and for what?
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
so he could get an easy payday and some tv time with the ufc audience, obviously. but i bet crocop was the desperate one still, right?
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aparently he was a lot more desperate than I thought he was if he would totally shit all over his reputation and word like that just so he could get one payday from the UFC. He has gone on and on about fighting for the UFC championship for weeks, including in his post fight interview and it turns out he was full of shit the whole time. Why would you toss away your reputation and fans trust of your word for one crappy fight unless you were desperate?
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I almost hope this is some sort of big fuck up and CC isn’t leaving – but if he is, then fuck him.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reputation and word….lol, like those matter. crocop wanted to get paid and used the ufc for a check. so what if he had no intention of staying? he obviously doesnt care about whether he sells ppvs for anyone either, because hes going to dream.
crocop comes off as the smartest man in cologne.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he’s a lying dirtbag and that’s ok? It’s the fans that pay for all this shit. I don’t care where he choses to fight but if he wanted to fight for Dream then he should of just done that to start with. I would be lust as disgusted by him if he’d did this to Dream instead of the UFC, reputation and word should mean something for someone of his stature.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty much. what does he care? you think people who watch DREAM wont watch crocop because he robbed dana white? hell, theyll probably promote that he did.
he doesnt care about his reputation with you. he cares about what his bank account looks like when hes done fighting.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows, the Japanese seem to be real sticklers for honor and there definatly was no honor in his actions at all, I definatly wouldn’t promote him as doing this.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the japanese mma fans also hate the hell out of the ufc and dana white.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well they dislike him because they don’t think he has much honor and they don’t trust his word, why would they all the sudden like Cro Cop for doing the exact same thing? They don’t have an anything goes mentality their fight fans love the bushido spirit of the sport and the fighters.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean for screwing him right back? i dont think theyll see moral equivalency there. sorry.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So they won’t care that Cro Cop did something disrespectful to the entire spirit of the sport just because Dana White was involved? Seriously? They are probably hoping in Dream that most of their fans just don’t find out about it, unless he is planning on wrestling for Hustle then perhaps they shouldn’t advertise him as a self serving liar who pulled a con on Dana White and his own fanbase.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, i dont think they will. thus far ive been batting 1.000 about this whole deal as its gone down. i see that streak continuing when it comes to this.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone in the sport is. big whoop. he just looks smarter than a lot of them tonight
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone in the sport is.
That’s simply not true. Good to know you don’t actually physically know anyone involved in mixed martial arts (or, if you do, they’re selfish liars).
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You weren’t the only one that was wrong. At least there are probably 20-30k people that bought this just because CC was on it.
I’m really surprised and disappointed – I hardly thought CC was going to be champ, but he seemed sincere about wanting to at least get a winning record in the Octagon (he’s now 2-2). Key word being ‘seemed’. Dirty, disgraceful move.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha.
Crocop- 1
Dana W- 0
But seriously, I wouldn’t mind seeing him back in the UFC. In Mirko’s defense, he’s in pretty tight with dream, and fights much better in a ring anyway.
I met a guy at a party who works in the biz, and he said that Mirko’s a bit of a primadonna.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 13, 2009 9:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It just sucks when you want to believe someone is honorable and it turns out they aren’t.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Golden rule, man.
I’m not a Christian or anything, but i’m just saying- what goes around comes around. Dana White is a guy who fires guy on the drop of a hat, for the bottom line. Best recent example- Xavier FP, who lost to 2 very solid guys in Denis Kang and McFedries (and he took the fight against Drew on short notice; something that should’ve earned him another chance t prove his mettle).
I don’t feel even the least bit mad about what Crocop did.
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 14, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s a really good point and to think I came into this post on Dana’s side
by drano on Jun 14, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Following the tennants both sides agreed to in a contract is a completly different issue than lying about your intentions. Lets face it everyone knows going into the UFC you either win fights and climb up the division ladders or you get your walking papers, this isn’t a job it’s a sport you win or your gone is the way things work. Cro Cop misrepresented himself to the UFC and his own fans here and for what a fight against a irrelevant opponent? Yes there are two sides to every story and Cro Cop’s side was that he pubically gave his word he would be fighting in the UFC beyond this.
Disliking how the UFC does business is irrelevant to this discussion because at least they do it on the up and up in contracts that both parties know about and agree to beforehand. Two wrongs never had made a right. Regardless of the “I hate the UFC and they deserve it” spin people want to put on this it was still a crap move on Cro Cop’s part. Why are people trying to justify this by saying “well the UFC are evil”?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So where did Cro Cop say that he won’t be fighting in the UFC beyond today?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cro Cop apparently has said a lot of things, the question is will Dana White ever sit down and negotiate with him again?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Dana’s defense, I’m not so sure that he just fires all of those fighters. I think it’s more like, he tells them to go get a couple wins in other orgs. and get their confidence/wins up and then come back to finish their contract/get another shot. Like a post injury/struggling baseball player going to the minors for a little bit.
by CliChe Guevara on Jun 14, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Verbal contract?
The UFC could sue Cro Cop…
I don’t think Cro Cop helped his stock much by fighting Al-Turk.
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by achengy on Jun 13, 2009 9:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
theyre gonna have to prove a whole lot to get that to stick. youre right, he didnt look any better, but he got paid a ton to fight a scrub.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he did all this to just get a single paycheck off the UFC then that really points to him being desperate. I don’t care where he fights and this has nothing to do with UFC vs other orgs it’s about a guy who gives his word to not only a promoter but to his fans knowing full well that he is lying through his teeth the whole time.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not desperate. he had a contract for a bunch of money already and the ufc obviously needed to sell tickets. he used them and got paid and hes laughing all the way to the bank. hahahahaha to you guys who are still in denial.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not in denial I am sickened by this, it is the very essence of being a lowlife. For goodness sake the man is supposed to be some kind of hero to his home country not some con artist out to lie himself to a paycheck.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only one problem with this theory
The UFC had already sold over ten thousand tickets prior to Mirko being announced. Did Mirko bring in the other two thousand? It is pos but his presence was not needed for this to be a success.
by Lynchman on Jun 13, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meltzer said they sold 7200 when the fight was first talked about, and a gate of just over 900000. so, judging by that and their numbers now, they sold almost 6000 tickets for less than 400000 after. so they probably sold a couple and they probably gave away a lot.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re just another person (I deleted my first word choice there) that revels in anything you think hurts the UFC.
Cro Cop made money for the UFC by doing this, and now, since he won’t have the opportunity to get his ass kicked by someone better than him (like Junior Dos Santos) in the UFC, he saves a main card fight for someone that really deserves it and wants to be the best fighter in the world.
I’m disappointed, but I deny nothing – CC pulled a fast one on Dana White by selling out his credibility and got a paycheck for his soul. Good for him. Now piss off and be meaningless in the HW scene.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he might have. depends on if the tickets and the sales of ppv based on his name eclipse what he made. and in any case, he doesnt care that danas pissed. he knew what the reaction would be and hes going to japan where his fanbase and money are.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup. more comfortable in a ring too.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, depending on what he said, there could be a verbal contract and a lawsuit.
by Michael Rome on Jun 13, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could they prove damages?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
He couldn’t.
He might’ve talked about it over the phone or something, but a fighter isn’t obligated to compete unless there’s ink on a paper that says so.
And he did 2 things by fighting Al- Turk: 1- gain some much needed career momentum/ cash, and 2) Increase the amount of bargaining power he has over potential future orgs (Dream, Affliction, etc).
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by ElliotMatheny on Jun 14, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Affiction will trust his word in negotiations after this? You think they weren’t paying attention to this? You think other orgs are going to wonder if Dream might of been pulling the strings on this and start being more wary on their dealings with them? Hell far from increasing his bargaining power he has just burnt down the bridge with the largest and best paying organization in the sport, no one will ever offer him more money because they are afraid the UFC might beat their offer again, seriously how could this of increased his bargaining power in the future in any manner?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If crocop keeps winning impressively
then you bet your ass DW will resign him. Crocop is still a big draw (especially in Europe), and is always an exciting fighter.
But seriously, why shouldn’t CC cash in on what Dream gives him for the time being? He’ll be making the same money, against lower quality opposition.
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'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jun 14, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will
never blame anyone for cashing out on a payday, especially athletes. I think people are butt hurt about Cro Cop and “honor” and “loyalty” but when it comes time to feed your family, ALL of your loyalty lives under your roof.
by Riney on Jun 14, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
for truth.
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'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jun 15, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'd be a tough case
but under the law, if you verbally agree to something then you can argue that they are contractually obligated to do so.
The problem is burden of proof so it’s unlikely. Zuffa has a lot of money, I wouldn’t be surprised if they at least they looked into it and spoke to a lawyer.
To your career momentum: I’m sure poking him in the eye and missing the next few shots sure looks great. It can be spun badly and will be. (Cro Cop was well on his way to winning yes, but it is Al Turk)
Not sure how it increased the amount of bargaining power on potential future organizations…. he might’ve burned a bridge with the UFC and I think that lowers his bargaining power. Affliction/Dream likely would’ve thrown a ton of money his way anyway, a simple tune up fight anywhere could’ve done that.
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by achengy on Jun 14, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for upping the buy rate for UFC 99
And thanks for acknowledging that you can’t hack it in the UFC. That’s what this really is – CC knows he can’t hang after that fight and went with the easy money.
He promised Dana that he would stick around if he won, and he didn’t.
Truly classless move.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Cro-cop looked washed up anyway
He did a lot of staring and not much else until he scored the eye poke, and even then it took him a few seconds to score a clean shot on a prone opponent.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Jun 13, 2009 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So he controlled all clinch work from a greco guy and a top european grappler, he hardly took a shot from him and everything he landed looked like it hurt Al-Turk. Did we watch the same fight?
Anderson Silva has been guilty of alot of ‘staring’ too and you could say the same for Lyoto, but how does that diminish a fighters abilities.
He chose his shots carefully plain and simple, and whenever they landed they were affective.
by Donk696 on Jun 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dirty move, not feeling that much sympathy for Dana though. This is a company that routinely (and legally) cuts fighters from 4 and 5 fight contracts after one fight because they lost or had a boring fight. Not that they’re the same, but it’s hard to feel so bad for the UFC here.
At the same time, Cro Cop really did some damage to his rep.
by Michael Rome on Jun 13, 2009 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
While Mirko has every right to do this, his talk before and after the match leave a very bad taste in my mouth.
by Lynchman on Jun 13, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He lied through his teeth to his fans who believed in him and took his word seriously.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure the fans will somehow survive.
http://andheneverwilldies.ytmnd.com/
by monkeyfightclub! on Jun 14, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"that's just what we call pillow talk, baby!"
I wonder if this wasn’t Dream’s plan all along, let him go back to UFC to get hyped while they didn’t have a fight for him. Somehow if Dream is behind the backstabbing, then it’s more culturally acceptable. God knows the UFC has been ruthless when it needed to be.
I don’t really care too much that he’s leaving after one fight, but it does speak volumes that he was unwilling to take on a legit contender.
by Stanlee on Jun 13, 2009 9:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if he knows hes leaving right after, why take a risk? take the money and run. anything else would be stupid.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, his reputation is damaged. He got his money, but his reputation has fallen greatly in the eyes of the fans. I hope the money’s worth it.
by cyph on Jun 13, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what fans? you, subo, and who me are predictable in your general responses, and really, your opinion doesnt matter. mine doesnt matter too, dont worry. what matters are the japanese fans and what they think. i doubt theyre bothered.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the Japanese caring about honor would be silly.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Canseco? That dude’s name drips with honor!
Japanese fans honestly don’t seem to care about much other than the fights being freak shows and there being brutal knockouts. Crocop used to deliver on one of those fronts, if he cannot manage the knockouts anymore, I’m sure they can find more guys like that 8 foot tall Korean to put in with him for the freak show fights.
by Stanlee on Jun 14, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick Cash?
I can’t figure out what Mirko’s angle is on this….other than the money.
He turned down anyone that would have helped his record and he must have known what the fall out would have been when he signed with Dream.
It’s retarded.
And to make it worse he beat the can with an eye poke.
by MMA_Messiah on Jun 13, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
tv time and a tuneup fight for a lot of money
by yngjzy on Jun 13, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good to see Dana get fucked, since he’s been doing it fighters for so long.
by grein on Jun 13, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure you’ve heard that two wrongs don’t make a right at some point in your life.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I think people are more of fans of hating Dana White than they are fans of the actual sport. Even if you loath White wouldn’t you want the fighters they supposibly respect to hold themselves to a higher standard?
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i expect fighters to do what is in their personal best interest like i would anyone that lives.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And completly buring a bridge with the largest promotion in the world and ruining the value of his personal word with every organization in the sport so he could score one crappy payday against a basically unknown opponent was in his professional best interest? Honestly he has made tons of money off the sport already but his word within the entire sport is now worthless, you think any other org will take him at his word now? Do you think his fans that watched that event will? He didn’t have to do that he could of just went to Dream and gone on with his career, he trashed his own reputation in the sport for one single payday against a irrelevant opponent.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
given what he probably negotiated for what dream is paying him, you bet your ass it was in his professional interest. hes obviously not in it to prove something to you. hes there to line his pockets while he can physically do it.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He better hopes that Dream keeps going and keeps paying him big because his reputation was his future in the sport. Who knows maybe he is getting close to retirement, maybe he is just a cut throat who only cares about the money, but in the business world screwing over your other options in such a very public manner doesn’t seem like a very good decision for your future.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his reputation was always that he was cutthroat about money. i dont think this changes anything.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So for you it’s ok for Cro Cop to be a lier just because you don’t agree with how Dana White does business? I guess for you two wrongs really do make a right?
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mirko has played hard ball before.
Remember the Pride GP? Mirko held out prior to the semi-finals and demanded he be paid double if he made it to the finals. As it was, fighters got paid from one night and made more if they won the GP.
by Lynchman on Jun 13, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel conflicted.
Fighters are entitled to trying to make as much as they can since they’re the ones putting their lives on the lines for our entertainment. At the same time, everything that came out of Mirko’s mouth told that he had enough money and now it was all about his legacy and gearing up for one last run at the title. So doing something like this seems so…well not wrong…just backhanded and really lame.
I don’t feel too bad for Dana but as a fan I feel kinda betrayed and lost a little respect for Mirko.
by Tonley on Jun 13, 2009 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely right
I don’t care that he fucked the UFC. However, he also fucked the fans and his reputation in the process. I gave him a pass for eye-poking Al Turk. However, after lying about running for the title, turning down Cain, and then bolting for the land of no competition, he’s done in my eyes. Cro Cop is dead to me.
by cyph on Jun 13, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what fans did he ‘fuck’? he got in the cage against the opponent he was booked to fight and fought.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CroCop, is that you? I guess CroCop only has Japanese fans now.
by cyph on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasnt the argument that he only ever had japanese fans before when people tried to play down why the ufc would sign him to a one fight contract? lolololol.
again, who did he fuck over?
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you attributing someone’s argument for mine? I was a fan, albeit not as much a CC worshipper as you are, but I was a fan and was hoping that he’s serious about regaining his championship form. I was looking forward to his 2nd run in the UFC against the top heavyweights in the world.
Now, I realize CC realize he can’t cut the mustard. All that BS about coming back is BS. He never intended to fight the best. He turned down an up and comer like Cain Velasquez because he knew he couldn’t hang. He’s lost a fan in me and I’m sure in others as well who prefer to watch the best fight the best. Of course, you’re still his #1 fan, Nigel so he hasn’t lost all his fans.
by cyph on Jun 13, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He bold faced lied to his fans about what his intentions were, he told them he was coming to win the UFC title and that he wanted to fight Randy and Big Nog and redeam himself for his past UFC performance. All the time he was saying that stuff to his fans he was bold faced lying(the Dream deal had to be in place long before this). That is the real crap here he got up and sold a line of BS to the very people who support him in this sport, the fans.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ones that thought he was going to stick with the UFC to go for one last title run…like he said he would.
But like I said, he’s entitled to go for the money. The deal was for one fight and he accomplished that. “Legacy” doesn’t put food on the table. But it doesn’t change the fact that he lied to fans and this move is shady as hell.
by Tonley on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what did he fuck them over for? the only people who caught feelings here were the dudes who downplayed him earlier.
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what did he fuck them over for?
For more money that Dream was offering, I guess.
the only people who caught feelings here were the dudes who downplayed him earlier.
Which has to do with how shady this entire situation is how?
by Tonley on Jun 13, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what actual thing did he “fuck them over” for? feelings? money?
by nigelzackit on Jun 13, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you mean the UFC, I don’t know and don’t care. Probably money.
I just know that I (and many others), as a fan, was excited over potentially seeing a possibly rejuvenated CroCop make one last run before calling it a career.
If he wants to get more money in Japan, fine. Doesn’t change the fact that he outright lied to fans.
by Tonley on Jun 13, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like the biggest cock tease in MMA ever.
All this hype about the OWGP form CroCop coming back for one last hurrah against the best the UFC. It would have been awesome. But alas, dreams are dashed. CroCop cock teased us all.
by cyph on Jun 13, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did no one else see this coming? He knows he can’t make more money elsewhere and took what DREAM offered him.
That and he realized how bogus his win tonight was.
by FlyByKnight on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They’re going to sue him in the United States for breach of verbal contract, detrimental reliance, fraud, violation of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing, and a number of other claims. The U.S. probably has jurisdiction (close call) and regardless of whether Mirko can win, they’re going to probably spend him under the table on legal fees. Nice call by Mirko.
by Michael Rome on Jun 13, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Not going to happen
I doubt there was a verbal contract. And there’s no way the UFC can prove detrimental reliance. This doesn’t even approach fraud. Basically legally the UFC doesn’t really have anything on Crocop.
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seemed pretty sincere about erasing the ‘blackspot’ in his career, repaying his debt to Dana, his run at the title and (in his postfight interview) returning to the UFC. I really doubt he was lying the whole time to the interviewers, to the fans and to the UFC.
Until we hear from his side of the story who knows what is true. Maybe the organised crime in Japan made him an offer he dared not refuse, maybe he has to fulfill his contract with Dream first. Maybe he wants to fight one last time in Japan – we know that Fedor has one last fight with Affliction, maybe he’s been offered a fight with him on NYE. The point is who knows.
But what i do know for sure is that he’s not a liar, you don’t just waltz in lie to everyone including your fans then waltz out again. I believe his comments prior to his fight at UFC 99 and his postfight comments. I think he wants in with the UFC in the future and is sincere about it, but until we know the details, everything – including that idiot Iole’s piece – is just speculation.
by Donk696 on Jun 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So he meant every word he said but minutes after the event he signed a multi-fight deal with Dream out of the blue? It would look different if he’d changed his mind a week from now but he apparently contacted Dana right after the event to tell him this.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taken a few weeks ago from Mirko’s MMA-ID profile
’It’s hard to talk about concrete plans, but I would really like to fight at least three times this year. I wish to fight against quality opponents and to fight my way up to a title shot but for now, I’ll focus only on my next fight and after that we’ll see what’s going to be on the menu next.
I want to say thank you Mr. Dana White for your interest and for an invitation back to the UFC. I owe you a lot from our first deal, and I’ll make it up to you.’
He’s talking dirrectly to his fans here, he has no reason to lie to them and he is not a fool.
I’ll take him at his word and believe he’s sincere. To make conclusions when just being informed by one side especially Iole seems premature and i just think we have to wait and see what his reasons are. He’s a pretty smart rational guy who is very sucessful, i’m sure once his reasons become apparent anyone who can think there way out of a paper bag will make a more informed judgement than the one Iole is pedalling.
by Donk696 on Jun 13, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People are going on the direct statements from him and Dana White not what Kevin Iole or any other person wrote. Cro Cop told him that he signed with Dream either shortly after the event or before the event had even ended, unless Dream surprise called him in the locker room and he made a snap decision to sign with them after the match he had to of known about this beforehand when he was saying all the stuff he has been saying about this being for more than one fight and how he wanted to fight Randy/Nog and win the UFC belt.
by who me on Jun 13, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’ll be interesting to see how much CC sold his reputation for, because after a dirty win against a c league fighter for him to bolt to Japan really shows that Mirko’s career is done and so is his legacy.
by Raker on Jun 13, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smart Move?
I wonder what Dana White has ever done in the past that would make Mirko think that he would be O.K with an apparent breach of verbal contract..
Even if everything was perfectly above board…I think it’s been proven that Dana takes things personally.
by MMA_Messiah on Jun 13, 2009 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way…it’s possible more will come out about this story from Mirko’s side, so everyone should be careful about such strong statements.
by Michael Rome on Jun 13, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True. Hopefully this isn’t as bad as it looks.
by Tonley on Jun 13, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing that would help is if this story isn’t true.
by subo on Jun 13, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, this is why this story shouldn’t go on the main page, because nobody knows what the situation is.
It’s pretty clear that there is alot more to this story than what we know so far, because that’s a much more plausable and sensible line than Mirko is a pathological liar who lies to his fans on MMA-ID and in all of his public statements on the issue.
by Donk696 on Jun 13, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michael, it doesn’t really matter what he does to explain it, he said one thing and did another, plain and simple. There’s nothing he can say to explain away the fact that he completely lied to everyone.
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cant say I am surprised consider this article earlier in the year.
by Dropkick434 on Jun 14, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah thats basically it. i think he just wanted to fight again in the ufc once and prove he could win in the cage
by Yasnian on Jun 14, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But did he have to misrepresent his intentions to the UFC and the public just to do that?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what Dana gets for trusting a politician. Honestly, I’m not surprised in the least and I don’t think it’s going to do any long term damage to either party.
by FRANKIE on Jun 14, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unless Cro-cop is fighting Overeem like he said he would then he is just lieing about every decision he makes now.
He always says he is going to do things he doesn’t do.
First in UFC to TKO someone with a poke to the eye?
Nope. Kevin Burns! Rematch? Nope! Al-Turk is not marketable like Anthony Johnson.
Can’t say I feel bad for Cro-cop doing this to the UFC, given that they don’t really have a standard towards dealing with most issues either, I just feel bad as a fan because this is one of many things he has said he would do, but ends up not doing.
by DirtyML on Jun 14, 2009 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh…there was a rematch for the Burns-Johnson fight. Johnson KTFO’ed him. But I don’t disagree.
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Score one for the good guys!
Anytime the Fertittas and Dana White get their asses handed to them in contract deals, I am happy. Their draconian contracts will eventually sink the Zuffa ship.
by a tommy point on Jun 14, 2009 12:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You didn’t see Dana going for the verbal deal as a breakthrough? I thought it was progress…
So much for that ship, Crocop sunk the shit out of it.
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This sets progress in UFC contracts back, it hurts the sport in that area not helps it. You think Dana will ever deal this way again? Heck they will probably make future deals even more airtight and restrictive.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do think it helps more than it hurts, in the long run. In my mind, the opposite is true: if Zuffa keeps contracting fighters the way they have been, things will eventually get so bad that either a union or a rival promotion will blow up their spot.
by a tommy point on Jun 14, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A rival promotion on top is going to take similar steps to stay on top(if not taking even more draconic steps). The UFC doesn’t do this because they are evil they do it because that’s what they need to do to be successful and stay on top of the sport, that same logic will apply to any organization that takes their place. Just look at the things that leaked out that Bellator was putting in their contracts and now Strikeforce is signing exclusive deals too.
Even if a fighters union was started up that’s no guarantee it will matter at all. Boxing has a fighters union and it’s pretty worthless. Besides lots and lots of fighters are perfectly happy with the way the UFC treats them and are very vocal about it. This isn’t like the way things were when manufacturing unions were born, as many fighters seem happy with the way they are now as there are fighters that aren’t and a union won’t work in MMA unless you can get everyone on board.
Of course what Cro Cop (allegedly) did won’t change any of that for the better, even if there was a fighters union they would condemn those kinds of actions as would any other promotion that he pulled this with.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exclusivity isn’t the problem.
Things like champion’s clauses, lifetime likeness rights, and an inability to fight on a regular schedule, are the things which will eventually spell doom for Zuffa.
The only way I can foresee Zuffa partially stemming the tide as the years go by is to start having bi-weekly shows or something of the sort. They’ll have so many fighters are not enough shows for them all.
by a tommy point on Jun 14, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The champion’s clause is only adding three fights to the end if the fighter is champion at the end of a contract and it’s never been used by the UFC. Heck it wouldn’t surprise me if more orgs start using them in the future, look how Strikeforce got burned by Overeem when he won their belt and then went somewhere else to fight. It’s not as bad as people make it out to be.
Lifetime likeness rights are just for video games not for all merchandise and that’s not all that bad of a deal for the majority of fighters. Now Bellator’s contract includes the right for the company to trademark the fighters name, which could be a lot worse for the fighter than anything in the Zuffa contract, imagine someone else having the trademark rights for your own name.
As far as the regular schedule, most Zuffa fighter fight three or more times a year, what other individual org keeps their guys fighting that often? Lets not act like most fighters want to keep Jeff Monson’s fight schedule, they are getting regular fights in the UFC and many seem perfectly happy on that point. Heck that’s why Zuffa keeps such tight control of the number of fighters they keep under contract.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now Bellator’s contract includes the right for the company to trademark the fighters name
I’ve never heard of this attempted before. Even Vince McMahon couldn’t figure out how to do that. Where did you read that about the Bellator contracts?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a lot of talk about that and what it meant a while back on the Underground forum and MMApayout mentioned it when they did an article on the Bellator contract.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying its wrong I’d just like to read about it myself since contract law is my business.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here I found it…..
One area of the ancillary agreement that is raising the ire of fighter advocates and mangers is a clause that has Bellator reserving the right to register as a trademark the fighter’s name, stage name, or identity for the purposes of Bellator carrying out their promotional duties. This sort of arrangement hearkens almost to the type of deals prevalent in the WWE, where the company holds trademarks over the performers stagenames and likenesses. As jaded as MMA reps are at this point by the contractual grabbiness of Zuffa contracts, this clause is seen in some quarters as being beyond the pale, which takes some doing. While some of the higher profile fighters like and Eddie Alvarez likely have the pull to bargain this clause out of their final deal, it leaves the majority of Bellator’s fighters with a bad deal in respect to the trademark issue. If they hold to this clause steadfastly, they may run into problems in the future recruiting new talent into the organization, provided they continue as a going venture.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. I know the WWE trademarked stage names but I was under the impression that a company could not trademark a person’s legal name (which is what kept McMahon from making his wrestlers sign over the trademark).
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can trademark real names if they are also stagenames, which is why so many guys use so many stagenames instead of their own (well the smart one’s trademark their own names themselves). I was under the impression was it hinged on how it was used for the business, as in they could trademark the name as part of their wrestling promotion only but the wrester could still use it for everything else but then I only really have legal training in product liability so I could be wrong.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was under the impression that wrestlers who used there real name were free to use it in other organizations because the WWF could not trademark their real name.
WWE now pretty much forces all of their developmental talent to come in under stage names for that exact reason:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/65422-wwe-name-game
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best example of this that I can think of is Kurt Angle.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Kurt trademarked his own name pre-WWE as he was doing ad stuff post olympics. Of course the WWE has always went with stage names and personas for if’s wrestlers although they have come a long way from the Isaak Yankem D.D.S. days.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this defense of the champion’s clause, “oh, it’s only 3 extra fights”. Right, 3 extra fights which the fighter has zero bargaining power over. If the fighter somehow becomes champion, they can’t negotiate pay or anything, even if their value has gone up exponentially. It’s only 3 fights, though! The UFC would never, ever spread those 3 fights out as far as possible! Pffft.
Video game licensing is a huge deal for promotions looking to take that next step. Suppose Strikeforce wants to do a deal with EA down the line and has several former UFC fighters under contract at that time. They’re shit out of luck, as those fighters’ likenesses belong to Zuffa. The fighters have essentially been forced to lower their future value on the market.
Do most fighters want to be on a Monson-esque pace? No. However, I really don’t see how someone could say that Zuffa fighters, specifically prospects not named Jose Aldo, are getting enough cage time to properly develop and increase their future value (should they prove to be worthy).
by a tommy point on Jun 14, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s three fights or a year whichever comes first so the UFC can’t spread the fights out, of course the big thing here is that it has never ever been used, they like to get guys resigned long before it comes to that. This is in place just to protect the championships and it is not as big a deal as people make it out to be. Hell as other orgs get bigger and it becomes more and more important for them to protect their belts too you will probably see this become commonplace in the industry, although it probably won’t ever be used by any of them either same as the UFC has never actually used it.
Do you know it’s a lower future value? Do you actually know any of the details? Do you know if it’s even an issue for any of the guys in Strikeforce? If you don’t know the exact details then really it’s just ranting on the internet. For the vast majority of fighters out there video game rights are pretty lame, they are never going to be featured in a game and anything they make at all is just extra cash(and they will get royalties as long as the games with them are on the market). Unless you are a huge star this isn’t much of an issue and the big stars are able to cut their own deals anyway(you don’t think Chuck or Randy or Brock signed a standard deal do you?).
The majority of UFC fighters get three or more fights a year, how many more do you think they should be getting? How many fights do Affliction fighters get a year? Lord knows with the medical suspensions it’s probably hard to get more than three fights into a year for a lot of these guys in the bigger organizations. Why do you think guys in the UFC fight less than guys in other US organizations?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the respect to elite fighters, the champion’s clause is a fairly big deal going forward. As the sport grows and grows, so to will fighters’ values. High end fighters could find themselves in situations where they lose up to a year of their prime earning period if they receive better offers when they’ve fulfilled all of the fights agreed upon outside of the clause. That’s a big deal.
The video game thing is plain to see. Not sure why this one is so hard to grasp. Heck, there is clear evidence of it happening already, and not in some hypothetical scenario that I set up in my last comment. Take Arlovski, Tito, and Nakamura, for example. They’re all in the UFC game, now and forever if Zuffa wishes. Things like that will only continue to be more common as promotions begin to challenge the UFC for market share. If you can’t see how lowering, or removing altogether, a potential revenue stream from a fighter would make the fighter less valuable in a promotion’s eyes, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Furthermore, I don’t understand where you got that it was only pertaining to video games. That is simply not the case. It goes across the board form imaging rights all the way down to freaking autograph rights, all signed over in perpetuity. I have a study in .pdf form done on the standard UFC marketing and licensing deal by a lawyer at Arizona State (at least I think that’s where he’s from). If you like, I’d be happy to upload it somewhere and email you a link.
As for the frequency of fights, I think many UFC fighters don’t fight enough to develop properly. Never said anything about other promotions.
No promotion is perfect, but if I were a fighter, I’d expect more of a juggernaut like the UFC. Of course, one could argue that if they didn’t do business in this manner, they wouldn’t be as much of a juggernaut, if at all, in the first place.
by a tommy point on Jun 14, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When has a fighter went into a championship fight at the end of a contract, either as champion or challenger? By the time guys get to the championship level they are already making real good money, the championship clause doesn’t change that and it also doesn’t mean that the UFC isn’t trying to negotiate to get them signed to a new contract, that’s why it’s never actually been used. No one has ever been screwed out of any money at all by this, heck the no compete clause is a much more serious issue than this as it would keep the fighter on the shelf where the champions clause keeps them fighting and earning money while they are re-negotiating their contracts. And no compete clauses are very common and go into effect all the time too, the champions clause has never actually been used.
The issue with the video game rights is that you still haven’t shown how a fighter is losing money here. Are outside video game organizers offering Nakamura more money to be in their game than THQ is paying for them to be in the UFC game? It sucks that they forced guys to sign but is there some super rich video game market for b level fighters out there that I don’t know about? Do you think that when a video game company signs a NFL game license that they go out and sign every single NFL player individually?
As for it pertaining to anything outside of video games I thought it was already established that the licensing deal and the video game deal were two separate things, the UFC wasn’t forcing guys to sign a lifetime marketing deal just the video game rights. The marketing deal was an optional one. That stuff is also something that is going on outside the UFC too, heck Bellator is signing fighters to contracts that allow them to trademark their names and likenesses, what can a fighter do if someone else owns his name? Right or wrong this is how the sport works.
If guys aren’t getting more fights outside the UFC than they would get inside the UFC then what’s the point? When the UFC is giving guys more fights than anyone else should they be called out because you personally think they should give them even more?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is the fighter losing money on video game rights? Uh, simple. If he isn’t worth as much to a promotion, other than the UFC, because they can’t use him in a video game, they’ll pay him less. The promotion will have less ways to extract revenue from it’s fighters and will suffer long term if it has any aspirations of making a UFC-style jump into the mainstream.
The licensing deal is indeed separate from the video game deal, but they’re both in perpetuity once signed. However, they’re both only optional insofar as you can deal with the extreme pressure Dana and the Fertittas will put on you if you decide not to sign – see: Jon Fitch and the rest of AKA.
I don’t know why you’re assuming I am arguing against exclusivity. I haven’t said anything of the sort and it seems like a leap on your part. I don’t mind exclusive contracts one bit. What bothers me is when fighters feel they have no choice by to sign parts of their lives away for a lifetime and beyond. If the marketing/video game deals were only in place as long as the fighter was signed with the UFC, then I wouldn’t really care. As it stands now, UFC contracts are so heavily in favor of Zuffa, in all areas, that it just baffles me there isn’t more made of this issue.
It’s not just me personally who thinks they should be given more fights. Ask Cain Velazquez about how often he fights. There’s a kid who has been in the cage 6 times in less than two years and still loudly states that he wants more fights to develop. I’m sure there are plenty of guys feeling the exact same way who haven’t fought nearly much as Cain, though, I admit to that being conjecture on my part.
by a tommy point on Jun 14, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are video game right that big a deal that a organization would pay a fighter less because of them? Seriously? Orgs are in the business of selling fights not video games this is a limited income stream for an organization at best and always will be, their main business is selling fights. I agree that what the UFC did wasn’t a good thing to do but it’s just not that big of an issue in the grander scheme of things. Just like talking about the champions clause when it’s pretty much a irrelevant issue compared to the no compete and contract matching clauses, you pick your battles because some things just aren’t that big a deal by comparison.
When did I mention exclusivity or anything to do with exclusivity? I’m not sure what you are talking about here.
As far as the contacts being so much in favor of the UFC, there isn’t more made about it because thats pretty common. Obviously it’s not a equal relationship here nor will it ever be, even if there was a super powerful fighters union in place here things would still be slanted toward the organization. Employers will always have things slanted their way over employees(anyone who has ever worked as a independant sub-contractor in industry knows that). The contracts are very complicated and restrictive but the sport is also very young and things are changing every day. Some of these things bug me too but there just isn’t some magical solution that will change things overnight to a perfect world. Even in the major league sports things are still slanted towards the organizations over the players in a lot of ways, just look at the NFL contract issues and they have a players union.
Most young fighters say they want to fight all the time, that’s nothing new nor can much be drawn from it. Heck I would love to see my favorite fighters fight more often too but there is quite a jump from that to blaming the UFC for not giving them enough fights. There are a lot of reason guys don’t fight more, heck it seems like half of every card ends up on some kind of medical suspension. You also have to look at what having heavy fight schedules did to a lot of the fighters that came out of Pride, many of those guys literally aged before their time because they were fighting too tough of schedules.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Al Turk. He got whomped and poked by Mirko for nothing when he could have been fighting someone he could have beat.
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
by Ubernoober on Jun 14, 2009 12:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with this. Duffee would have ran through him him in a low-profile prelim and he’d have been cut after that. Instead he got the highest profile fight of his career and there’s also a slight chance that he’ll get another fight in the UFC because of the eye-poke.
by rabrown on Jun 14, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surprised
I say good for Mirko. He probably got a nice payday and in turn upped his pay with DREAM. I am shocked at how many fel that he screwed over UFC. This is the same company that will fire guys with fights on their contract, not use you for months to teach you a lesson, or make you sign a video game deal that is beyond ridiculous. Seriously, that video game deal would easily be turned over in court if someone would try. Maybe you are talking about the same company that fires fighters for daring to speak up.
I love Mirko but he is at the end of his road and I think him fighting in DREAM where they appreciate him more than we do over here is great for him.
by Scott Whitt on Jun 14, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s written into the contracts that guys can be let go with fights still on them if they lose, that’s not screwing guys that’s something they agreed to and something that is pretty standard fare in performance based contracts. As for the video game deal it’s sad that they tried to make guys sign but it wasn’t a rediculous deal it was a decent deal for most of the fighters(which is probably why no one ever cared to actually fight it in court). What fighter got fired for daring to speak up?
There is a huge difference between following a contract that both sides agreed to beforehand and misrepresenting yourself to con a company into giving you a fight based on a verbal agreement you didn’t intend to keep. You might not like how the UFC does business but that is a completly different discussion than what is being discussed here.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the UFC has done in the past is completely irrelevant. We all know that they will do whatever it takes to make money. I for one thought Cro Cop was above that. Dana can be a huge greedy asshole, but atleast he doesn’t try to make everybody believe that he is all about honor and honesty. Cro Cop had all of his fans (including me) believing he was one of the classiest guys in the sport. I believe it was in the countdown show (somebody correct me if i’m wrong) where he promised that this would not be his last UFC fight. It is one thing to lie to a promoter, lying to your fans is a completely different matter.
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on Jun 14, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mirko has pulled shit like this before. If you thought he was one of the classiest guys in the sport you weren’t paying attention.
by FRANKIE on Jun 14, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems there was a lot of stuff that went on behind the scenes in his past that we all weren’t aware of. I was definatly wrong in my opinion of him.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/02/12/six-degrees-of-ken-imai/
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny, this morning Cro Cop was probably one of my top 5 favourite fighters, now I really couldn’t give two shits about him. Ever since he stopped being the dominant CC the only reason I still cared about him was I thought he seemed like a great guy, now that I know thats not true I dont have any interest in seeing him fight again unless he magically becomes as good as he used to be.
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on Jun 14, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, pretty much the same here. It sucks.
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goran Reljic
Some Croatians have honor Mr. Filipovic, try and emulate them next time.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 14, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Man, he needs to hurry and fight again, so I can have a new Croatian to cheer for.
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funniest thing about this is how desperate the Zuffa haters are to cling to what Mirko did that they miss the repercussions this will have on other fighters. Yeah Mirko got over on the UFC, but so what he ruined his reputation in the process and ruined his future prospects of making tons of money if he had a better second run. All so he could get a tainted win over a no name fighter and a couple of extra pennies from Dream, this is Tim Sylvia style stupidity showcased by CC and anyone supporting career suicide.
by Raker on Jun 14, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What I want to know is...
If this was a verbal contract and nothing was put on paper what stops Dana from saying “OK Mirko, if you want to play that game then the way I remember it, instead of promising you $80k/$80k, I believe our deal was for $5k/$5k. Your check will be in the mail tomorrow, if you feel it’s unfair then sue me.” If Mirko can break his verbal contract why can’t Zuffa?
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Zuffa has a LOT to lose by pulling that.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like what? Every other fighter has a signed document that says exactly what they will be paid, this is a completely unique situation.
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not going to go through an entire course on business law but if you check out Mike Rome’s list of items that the UFC might sue Cro Cop for that is a good start of the violations (minus detrimental reliance) that they could be sued for along with improper business practices based suits and the damage to their reputation as well as the negative media coverage that a lawsuit would bring. There is a reason why most companies settle out of court when theyre even partially in the wrong.
If Zuffa pulls what you are suggesting they won’t have a leg to stand on in their own suit and will open themselves up to legal liability.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sloooooooow down
Were not even 10 hours removed from the event and have no word from Mirko’s camp on this. Can we get all the facts before everyone freaks out and calls him a liar with no honor.
Does anyone have any information about Cro Cop promising a multi-fight deal other than quotes from Dana White? When I read Dana’s initial statements he said that he only had a one fight deal in place. There is a big difference between talking about continuing to fight for the UFC if he won and entering into a binding agreement to do the same thing.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
When I read Dana’s initial statements he said that he only had a one fight deal in place.
Has Dana EVER done a one fight deal? He never would have agreed to it if Mirko said “I’ll do this one fight in Germany but then I’m going to DREAM”. Obviously he has never done a deal over the phone either but there’s no way in hell Dana would have brought him in if he thought CC would bolt after this one fight.
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both sides said there would be more UFC fights, that they hadn’t worked out the specifics for the long term.
“As Dana explained, we talked just on the phone, we didn’t meet,” Cro Cop said. “But this is definitely not my last fight in the UFC. You have my word for it.”
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
So everyone who wants to say “Let’s wait until we hear Mirko’s side, blah, blah, blah” I say fuck that, he lied and his reputation is now shit in my eyes.
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So because he is fighting with Dream means he will never fight for the UFC again?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think CC is looking to retire after this contract is up.
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on the fact that he said so
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=1613
"I believe that during 2009 I will fight three more times for Dream, then I hope for a farewell fight in the UFC."
Apparently he got things backwards.
by ufc4 on Jun 14, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he isn’t fighting three times for Dream in 2009 so to me all that quote says is that he wants to fight in Dream before finishing off his career with a fight in the UFC. That statement doesn’t contradict his earlier statement that tonight won’t be his fight in the UFC.
If you want to jump to conclusions and make extremely strong judgments on a person’s character based on some quotes that you have given your own interpretation to, I can’t (and don’t care to) stop you. My opinion is that I’d like to see this play out a little before I make personal attacks on someone based on Dana White’s snap reactions to finding out hes going to fight with Dream.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you honestly think Dana White will ever deal with him again after this?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Dana can find a way to get Kimbo into the UFC system Im sure he’ll find a way to get Mirko back if it helps the bottom line. I mean, he despised Tito for years and still had him on the roster. I dont see why he couldnt do the same for Mirko. He is a professional businessman isnt he?
by GeeDub on Jun 14, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this sound like White will be talking to Cro Cop about a UFC run any time soon?
"He didn’t keep his word," White said, who said he’d had a two-hour talk with Filipovic on the day Filipovic texted and asked to be able to return. "He talked about honor and all this other [expletive] and he [expletived] me.
"He fed me this bull [expletive] about wanting to take a run for the title, and what I think he did was, he went out and did this. He turned down every other [expletive] fighter I offered him, because I needed him to fight Cain. He didn’t just poke Al-Turk; he poked me, too."
Kevin Iole is all but White’s personal spokesman and he is saying that Cro Cop most likely will never fight in the UFC again after this. Yea there could be a lot more to this that we don’t know but I wouldn’t expect anything favorable in the near future in regards to Cro Cop being on a UFC show.
Apparently, Filipovic, who is from Croatia, wanted to fight in Germany and use the UFC bout as a tuneup. He did and is now Dream bound, but he’ll almost certainly never fight in the UFC again.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he saw value in Crocop down the track I dont see why he wouldnt. He isnt in the business to make friends. That being said, Crocop is aging and he looked pretty ordinary against AlTurk, a B grade fighter so I would be surprised if Dana was keen to have him back……irrespective this debacle.
by GeeDub on Jun 14, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Cro Cop’s value is obviously tied to his performances and those have been lacking of late. The way he’s been performing perhaps having the good will of a guy like Dana White(who else has White ever done anything like this for?) was probably more valuable than the press over his win against Al-Turk. We also know White is one for keeping grudges. I am assuming he is near retirement anyway because it seems he really has burned that UFC bridge, perhaps he plans on fighting out his career in Dream.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After what? Cro Cop said he had a non-exclusive contract even before today’s fight. Isn’t it at least equally as likely that this is a misunderstanding with Cro Cop thinking he could fight in Dream and then fight again in the UFC and Dana thinking when he said he would fight more UFC fights that it was an exclusive deal? That kind of thing happens all the time with verbal contracts.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not long after stopping Mostapha Al-Turk in the first round of UFC 99 on Saturday at Lanxess Arena in his first fight in the UFC since back-to-back losses in 2007, Filipovic informed UFC president Dana White that he had signed a three-fight contract with the Japan-based DREAM.
White had signed Filipovic less than a month ago to a one-fight deal, the first time in more than nine years that he’d done that. He had worked out terms on two additional fights, but said he’d only put pen to paper for Saturday’s bout.
By what I am getting out of this is that they signed for tonights fight but only had a verbal agreement on future bouts. Not sure how any of this talk about non-exclusive contracts comes into this, the UFC has never done that and nothing I read about this situation said anything about this being a non-exclusive contract (where is the quote by Cro Cop saying it was non-exculusive from?).
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a previous fan post.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/9/904215/dana-signs-cro-cop-for-ufc-99-on
“Mirko previously mentioned that he has a non-exclusive contract with the UFC, and I guess technically he is correct since there is no contract.”
Its not a direct quote from Cro Cop but its where I got my information
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While MMASuPreMaCy apparently was right to question this whole deal a couple of days ago it’s still MMASuPreMaCy and not anything actually from Cro Cop. I would be interested to know where he heard that. For that matter I’m surprised he’s not around for this one, he finally got something right and he’s not here to celebrate.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha...Finally?
Look again, this isn’t the first one.
For those that have questions about this whole deal, please read my post below. I warned everyone that Mirko was pretty much going to fight with DREAM next, and everyone seemed okay with it. Now, people are claiming that Mirko is the devil when it actually happened because DW feels like he got screwed on something everyone said was advantageous to the UFC…LOL.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/9/904215/dana-signs-cro-cop-for-ufc-99-on
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 14, 2009 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You scored big on this one
And you deserve to gloat….lol
by rainmaker6 on Jun 14, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well didn’t Mirko just become the poster boy for the way the UFC does its contracts.
This all seems a bit strange – especially after seeing his post-fight interview on UFC.com – and if it is true that he just bailed… He’s a dick.
by SamCupitt on Jun 14, 2009 1:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That Dream poster with Mirko on it was a red flag that just bit Dana in the ass.
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 1:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
people need to settle down
at most it’s a mosquito bite
by fanaddict on Jun 14, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not the end of the world, Mirko still looked like crap, I just think it’s dirty that he bailed on Dana like that, and it was premeditated. I’m not sure what the other side of the story could be that would keep me from thinking Crocop didn’t pull a fast one on Dana.
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the thing here. Something doesnt add up. Im not surprised at all Mirko hasnt signed with the UFC. If he intended to fight in a sequence of fights, why was a contract not presented to him to be signed like every single other UFC fighter? And with Mirko on the Dream 10 poster, why would Dana choose this super high risk fighter to simple give a fight without a contract. Something smells fishy.
And for all the Mirko hate. Take it easy. He said its not his last fight for the UFC and he says he has a non-exclusive contract with them. Just coz he is off to Dream now doesnt mean he wont be keen to fight for the UFC for another fight later. If Dana doesnt want to allow that, perhaps he should have thought about signing Mirko to a contract instead of allowing him to fight without a contract. Either Dana White is ridiculously naise or we’re missing info here. I think the latter is more likely.
by GeeDub on Jun 14, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec’d
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Jun 14, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When has who is on a Japanese fight poster actually meant that that guy would be on the card? They are famous for advertising guys who aren’t actually on the card.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, you said alot more in one sentence than everyone else has said with paragraphs of text…lol
by kyfm621 on Jun 14, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just in case any was wondering what I meant by Tim Sylvia career suicide, well spoiler warning………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Sylvia just got KTFO by Mercer in 10 seconds.
He went for the money and now has no mma career in the span of 2 fights, I will say this once and i’ll say it a million times. I love MMA I respect anyone who goes out and fights for a living but too many guys like Sylvia/AA have chased the money/boxing/other crap and are getting exactly what they deserve.
by Raker on Jun 14, 2009 2:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This thread is about as full of shit as any I've seen here.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 2:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which part? CC seemingly deceiving the UFC, or people defending it? Unless some miraculous paperwork surfaces showing that both sides were in cahoots on his switch to DREAM, I don’t see how Cro Cop can look good here…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jun 14, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cro Cop fans trying to make this seem ok. It’s ridiculous.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn’t Crocop fans, it is Zuffa haters.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 14, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of Cro Cop fans are disheartened by what happened, not because he screwed over the UFC but because they though he was better than this kind of crap and he lied to them directly. While we still haven’t gotten the full story here it’s hard to reconcile this with what Cro Cop was saying before the fight.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Quote from my fan post a few days ago:
I don’t ever remember Dana saying that verbal agreement’s were the devil they just aren’t a smart move most of the time but as always there are exceptions to the rules. Dana and the UFC only roll the dice when all it’s win-win for them as is this situation CC is a man of his word and a name fighter if he wins he’ll be back for another run. If he losses than he can wash his hands of CC and make a name out of Al-Turk either way the UFC as usual wins while the anti-UFC crybabies bitch about it on the internet sounds like another typical day to me.
My Response:
Since when has Cro Cop been such a noble man and a man of his word?
This is the same Mirko that had contract disputes with PRIDE in the middle of the OWGP and demanded more money to continue?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 14, 2009 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Cro Cop’s fans gave him too much credit for being an honorable guy does seem to be coming to light in a hard way, which makes it that much worse.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has always been the same guy, ever since PRIDE.
I don’t understand where this noble and honorable Cro Cop came from.
I already know who he is, and many people do as well, and it won’t affect people watching him fight the next time around. He did it with PRIDE, won the OW GP, and became a hero while doing that.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 14, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of stuff has happened behind the scenes, this one was done right out there in public. I went back and read some of the stuff Zach Arnold had written about Cro Cop and his manager and I must say if I’d known that before then perhaps a lot of us wouldn’t of been surprised that he would pull this kind of crap now.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or another theory of mine was that DW misunderstood what Mirko’s demands were, because according to Mirko and his manager, they have always said that he had a special contract with the UFC and he was going to fight for DREAM as well.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 14, 2009 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a link to them saying that? It’s what we were looking for earlier above.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"As Dana explained, we talked just on the phone, we didn’t meet," Cro Cop said. "But this is definitely not my last fight in the UFC. You have my word for it."
What’s to misunderstand?
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I have to say I’m pretty disappointed. I was a big CC fan but this is such a cheap move that I’ll be watching Dream hoping he will get his ass kicked rather than him kicking ass himself.
by brad23 on Jun 14, 2009 3:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
Why are people pissed off when I warned everyone about this a week ago?
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/9/904215/dana-signs-cro-cop-for-ufc-99-on
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 14, 2009 4:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was a dumb idea then – I think it’s a dumb idea now. My dad the accountant gave me great advice: Always get it in writing!!!
People are pissed because it is a shitty thing to do – you warning people has nothing to do with it. If you want to complain about everyone being surprised, fine, but that’s an entirely different question that what you asked.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jun 14, 2009 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cro Cop
If he hadnt spent the last few weeks talking about how he was going to make a run for the title and how this was ‘definetly not his last fight in the ufc’ then it wouldnt bother me but mirko has shown himself to not be a man of his word, he was one of my favourite fighters but this is total BS. This is the last we’ll see of him in the ufc and looks like it may have ruined any 1 fight fedor deal chances also. Just so disappointed in Mirko.
by mcicp19 on Jun 14, 2009 7:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna read through this whole thread, but if people really want to shit on a fighter for working a promoter…more power to you. I, for one, don’t care at all.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 7:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How dare you bring common sense into this!
I think it’s more feeling like he lied to his fans – saying he wanted to redeem himself in the UFC, then bolting for Japan after one win.
I’m somewhat amused the usually-shrewd Dana allowed himself to be worked – always get it in writing!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jun 14, 2009 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly. CroCop out played the player; Dana White himself. That’s the real reason why Dana is so upset.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Jun 14, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, because that’s what this is about.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if people really want to shit on a fighter for lying to and deceiving his fans while pulling scumbag moves
Fixed.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 14, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I couldn’t care less about this either. I understand this is a career for these guys, and they need their chedda. He hasn’t personally harmed or exploited me in anyway. Was he deceitful in his motivation for the fight at UFC 99? I guess, though I’d like to hear his side of it before I judge him for it.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cro Cop’s side is ‘no comment, it’s my private business’. What say you?
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So because he’s unwilling to comment, we get to take Dana White’s word as the story?
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t comment on whether you’re signed with an organization or not? Are you serious? How about whether you’re a free agent – can you comment on that? Can you comment on your comment that ‘this isn’t my last fight with the UFC. You have my word on that.’?
And yeah, if one guy levels an accusation and the other guy says ‘no comment’, who ya got?
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, according to the link below, Dream hasn’t signed Cro Cop yet. And if that’s the case, it makes a lot more sense why Cro Cop wouldn’t want to comment presently.
As for your hypothetical question, I can’t really answer that as I think these sorts of things should be judged on a case-by-case basis. A lot of the reason I’m giving Cro Cop rope here is that 1) we got the “no comment” stuff from a translated source, 2) he just got off a plane following a fight, and 3) maybe Dana’s jumping the gun.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I grant your premises – it’s the third one that holds all the water for me. I just can’t believe Dana would go off like this without knowing for sure what was happening. Not on Cro Cop, not after a fantastically successful German debut. I – a lot of us – could have to eat our words and apologize for calling Cro Cop a liar.
I can appreciate being cautious, but this would be one hell of a piece of disinformation to slip to Dana White.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not as if Dana White’s never talked about things before he had all his facts straight though.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granted – and I hope he’s wrong about all of this and this all gets sorted out and CC sticks around. I just can’t believe Dana would do it unless he was 100% sure CC was done in the UFC. He seemed to really, truly want him back.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t agree with this assessment of Dana’s character. We already know he’s a hot head. We already know he’s willing to babble about things that aren’t 100% (HBO, etc.). He’s a promoter.
As for “really truly wanting him back,” I’m not sure why Dana would covet Cro Cop that much. He obviously provided a huge boon to the Cologne card, potentially drawing a bunch of fans to an event that only sold out half the venue anyway. Otherwise, Cro Cop isn’t a huge name to casual American fans, and his first run in the UFC left a lot to be desired.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I already had to admit I was completly wrong when I went out and defended Cro Cop in an article less than a week ago, I would prefer that I was right then and wrong now.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People should be
mad if he came and killed Lesnar and left. He didn’t. This hurts to say but props to MMAsupremacy.
by Riney on Jun 14, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This issue has shown me a lot about my fellow Bloody Elbow readers…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jun 14, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s hard to draw the line between those that hate hate hate the UFC and those that merely want to have Mirko’s babies.
Both are pretty unattractive qualities, though.
by subo on Jun 14, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have Mirko’s babies – I would be a medical miracle and get rich!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jun 14, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it equally tough to draw a line between those that love the UFC and those that want to bear Dana White’s babies?
by FRANKIE on Jun 14, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over all I really get tired of people who can’t seem to separate their feeling on the UFC from their opinions on the sport (and that goes both ways). I could care less that Cro Cop screwed the UFC I just don’t care for the fact that he turned out to be a lying scumbag, Dana White’s involvement is irrelevant.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CroCop Denies having signed with Dream
http://jutarnji.hr/sport/borilacki_sportovi/clanak/art-2009,6,14,,166592.jl
The plot thickens! Someone’s a bold-faced liar. It’s either Dana or CroCop.
by cyph on Jun 14, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Translation?
He already declined to talk about signing with Dream, stating that it was personal business earlier, what is he saying now? Who texted White after the show and told him this if it wasn’t Cro Cop?
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really should be using Mozilla’s Ubiquity.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just waded through the translation. It pretty much says Cro Cop hasn’t signed anything with Dream. Cro Cop said he’s surprised by Dana’s words and thinks he should have talked to him before saying such things. Despite that, doesn’t affect a potential return to the Octagon.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the Iole article says is that Cro Cop informed White he was signing with Dream which doesn’t jive with any of what Cro Cop is saying about Dana not talking to him first. None of it makes much sense at this point.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iole’s article says nothing about how Cro Cop informed Dana. Was it face-to-face? Was it through a third party? Text message? Did he say he was going to consider his options with Dream which set White off as he felt he had a guaranteed deal with Mirko?
Iole, for the most part, has improved a lot as an MMA writer over the past year. However, this piece is a fucking hatchet job, and I’m extremely skeptical of what’s been reported until we hear news from other, more-objective sources. Honestly, this article is one of the most one-sided and transparent MMA-related pieces I’ve seen in a long time and Iole should be called out on it.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 14, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
How White was told is exactly the question at hand. We can talk about Iole all we want but the fact that he is a complete tool in White’s pocket is what makes me believe he got that straight from Dana’s mouth. That was Dana White’s hatchet job and it was done for a real reason and Dana at least believes that this information came to him straight from Cro Cop. Dana was doing interviews talking about how happy he was to have Cro Cop back right after the show too and then all the sudden we get this huge 180 from him, something just isn’t right about this.
by who me on Jun 14, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This should be green by now, but apparently nobody is paying attention to reality. Well done.
by FRANKIE on Jun 14, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They had a 1 fight deal on paper and had verbally agreed to more.
This could be as simple as after the fight Dana sez: ok here’s the contract- 2 fights for 200kdollars and Crocops response is ‘but dream offered me 3 for $500k. Well talk when i get back from vacation.’
And then Dana goes and talks dirty to the media.
by Headkick on Jun 15, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who Me has pointed out that Sergio Non, of USAToday, has written that the head of FEG U.S. (parent co of Dream) has told him that Mirko has signed with Dream.
Dave Meltzer is writing that Mirko’s agent has been playing both sides and has told Dream that Mirko is with them.
I have updated my post to include these things.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/14/909251/thoughts-on-the-always-changing
by Lynchman on Jun 15, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
