The Million Dollar Question About Dana White
by Luke Thomas on May 9, 2009 2:33 PM EDT
in News
97 comments
ESPN's Tom Farrey gets to the heart of the matter:
"I don't know of any sports leader who's more polarizing than Dana White," Farrey said. "But so far he's survived and thrived. You've got to give him a lot of credit. He knows how to put together the fights the fans want to see, and he makes great use of promotional techniques to build up his fighters."
Farrey, who previously did an E:60 profile on Brock Lesnar, said he's attracted to reporting on MMA because "It's a cultural phenomenon. I got into this business not because I want to tell you who's going to win the World Series or who's going to be the MVP. There's nothing wrong with all that, but I got into this business because I want to cover the biggest trends in sports, the trends that say something about the society we're living in. MMA and UFC are great topics. ... Whether you like it or not, it's here and it's here to stay."
The question Farrey said he wanted to explore in his profile is whether White, as the man who got the UFC to the point where it's here to stay, is also the man to take the sport to new heights.
"He's clearly lifted the sport, he's done a number of brilliant things to lift the sport to where it is," Farrey said. "But one of the things we ask in the piece is, Is he too volatile to get the sport to the next level?"
This is perhaps one of the most relevant yet improperly explored question today in mixed martial arts. The issue is admittedly difficult to unpack and I hear many haven't even attempted it or recognized the need to do so.
But the other real question is if not White, then who? And that's where reality smacks one in the face. White certainly brings liabilities with him as a sport's chief representative. With his boorish character, loyalty-driven management style and temperamental bullying he is clearly either unprepared or unconcerned with some requirements of mainstream integration.
However, if there is an individual clearly positioned to take over for White and improve upon what the UFC President has and can accomplish, I fail to recognize him or her. Some have suggested Lorenzo Fertitta is the true Wizard of the UFC Oz, but I'm not sure even Lorenzo is capable of providing enough of a spirited public push to give the sport a name by which others can hang their hat on. As for White, where he falls short with soft diplomacy he excels in delivering a MMA product that is sustainable, profitable and meaningful (a few production quibbles I have notwithstanding). There are plenty of executives who can play the levels and network in the mainstream, but are utterly incapable of producing and safeguarding high level professional MMA. White, mercifully, does not have that problem.
White already knows this and it's probably why he's as determined to be untethered by best practices of the mainstream as he is. One can only hope without an heir or rival, the freedom to do as he pleases doesn't produce the corrosive effect of doing what one pleases no matter the consequences. Now we wait.
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The institutional biases against mixed martial arts – the states that refuse to regulate, the soulless family values organizations that make hay over what adults decide to do consensually as a rule of thumb, the snobs that will never consider MMA on the same level as The Sweet Science (this crowd grows thinner every day as they are dying off) and the arrogance of the networks that think they can make Dana’s product better than Dana has made it are – what are keeping MMA from making the next leap. And those obstacles are either falling or growing weaker, one by one. Give the trifecta of White, Fertitta and Silva another couple of years, and even the haters will be pitching in to build the monument to what they’ve done for our favorite sport.
As you said, there are people that can run an MMA promotion but not drink tea with the Queen, and vice a fucking versa.
by subo on May 9, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m just glad it’s not all about homophobia in sports or some other topic. It’s about how fast the sport has grown.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since Lorenzo came on, you haven’t seen any business debacles like the Pride ac1uisition and the Randy Couture situation. It really seems like there’s a good cop/bad cop setup with Lorenzo and Dana.
As for a bigger picture “who else can do it,” I mean, if an entrepenuer as talented as Mark Cuban sniffed around, ran a couple shows, and decided it wasn’t worth the effort, I have a hard time picturing anyone else making a go of it.
by andherewego on May 9, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget ‘as loaded’ when talking about Cuban – if he’s not willing to lose the money necessary to try to compete with Zuffa, nobody is.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget a guy who owns his own channel and arena….
by mmalogic on May 9, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don’t think the PRIDE acquisition was a terrible thing – Wandy and Nog were on the best selling UFC card of all time, Hendo/Rampage got over 5 million viewers as a true unification match, Shogun’s turning it around, Kang’s still around, etc etc etc
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cro Cop was such a disaster it'll leave a very bad taste in people's mouths regardless.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything, Cro Cop’s flop (seasoned with Rampage destroying Wandy) made me want to see Fedor prove it in the Octagon even more. It’s different than a ring. It just is.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Cro Cop was never the greatest grappler.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because that couldn't happen in a ring?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking more about the Kongo fight anyway
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok so anyway
I think having walls and being in an octagon just changes the angles for everything. I think it’s a different world – one that Cro Cop decidedly sucked in.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually thought he got TOO comfortable, thinking there was no way he could be cornered in a cage, and got lazy.
Although it’s really a debate.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congrats, I guess.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 9, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t worry, i got some screenshots.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 9, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I can still see things when they’re hidden.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 9, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the feeling you frown on my encouragement of such behavior.
by subo on May 9, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where there’s trouble in the BE comments, subo is there. You’ve got some kind of gift…or affliction.
by Cannon Jacques on May 9, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm usually making fun of the unoriginal, unfunny insults/
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t say I’m an instigator, but I sure don’t try to defuse the crazy when it comes out. Better to let it runs it course and let the mods pick up the pieces.
by subo on May 9, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this particular case, I don’t think there was anything you could have done to defuse the situation.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 9, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could’ve shut up/ignored it. But I sure didn’t.
by subo on May 9, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s was just craziness. It’s times like these when I’m glad that I can see hidden content that I missed.
by Cannon Jacques on May 9, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I would’ve saved it – then again, history shows that it will probably happen again as long as I keep commenting here.
by subo on May 9, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damnit, I really fell like I missed out.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 10, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cro Cop and Big Nog weren’t part of the Pride acquisition they were signed before it happened.
by who me on May 9, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lorenzo was eminently involved in the Pride acquisition.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think it was the disaster everyone seems to?
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s mixed, but mostly bad. They left millions on the table and completely blew it in a number of ways. The deal was a mess. They paid way too much, and a good sign of how it worked out is the prolonged litigation they’re in now over it.
On the other hand, who knows what direction things would have gone in the UFC without bringing in Crocop, Rampage, Shogun, Wand, etc. Even though a lot disappointed, they combined for a lot of big fights, and helped others become stars in the wake of their losses (except for Mirko, who was a 100% bust). The big let down so far is not getting Fedor.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with all of that – as a fan that’s incredibly interested and excited to see what all of those people (don’t forget Hendo) are going to do in the future, I’m still glad they did the deal.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it like this: even though Shogun came in and disappointed, it’s not all bad. The loss to Forrest turned Forrest into a main event level star. Nog helped remake Mir. Wand helped remake Chuck until he fell apart again. They provided for a lot of main events combined that wouldn’t have been there otherwise. Oh, and I included Rampage even though I shouldnt have, he wasnt part of that.
Buying Pride didn’t bring the contracts, but the fighters probably would have stayed with the new owner if someone bought it out and continued it. The UFC’s main concern isn’t domestic competition, which is a complete joke as everyone can see. Their concern is a foreign league establishing a number of popular stars and a strong revenue stream before getting a US tv deal and then coming to compete in the U.S. In that regard, they paid a high price to destroy their biggest threat.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wand can also rehab Anderson’s image (if by sticking another knife in Franklin). If Nog beats Couture, he can fight Brock in December after Brock beats Mir. Shogun is 27 and could be a contender again with another strong performance. All impossible if Zuffa didn’t blow that cash. Good points about the international scene.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I think Scott Coker would be the man for the job, but Dana's persona won't stop anything as long as he keeps putting on good fights.
And I do think a Strikeforce-UFC competition similar to UFC-Pride will add intrigue to the sport and get people talking about it.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and Chuck Liddell is playing poker on ESPN2 if anyone gives a shit.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm watching, he sucks and it's hilarious
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck Liddell with the six deuce taking down Mark Seif’s A-K. Beautiful.
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He even told him what he had.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 9, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I have the Bloody Elbow record for ‘most flame outs inspired’ yet?
by subo on May 9, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is no such record.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 9, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that this conversation is happening
speaks to MMA as moving into the mainstream more forcefully right? I think it does anyway. And so, I think there will come a time, there is coming a time, when the UFC will need a different type of leader.
Dana White brought it here, but I think a more frankly political ‘commissioner’ of sorts could be more influential in gaining licensing in the rest of the US states. I don’t think that means MMA loses a long-term success perspective. Rather, I think it means once a sport moves into mainstream appeal, it requires a more open, accepting world outlook.
I think MMA could gain an NFL ‘esque’ foothold in American sports. I don’t think that can happen with Dana White as the frontman. I look at it like this: the NFL today is what the MLB was 30 years ago. And, MMA today could be what Boxing was 30 years ago.
I watched that E-60 trailer where Dana talks about Tito. Gary Bettman, Roger Goodell, David Stern would not emotionally engage that way. That engagement is what brought the UFC out of the forrest, but it’s not what will bring it into truly mass appeal. For example, when Paul Tagliabue(sp?), bounced running back Lawrence Phillips from the league permanently, he didn’t engage in the conversation. He simply laid out that NFL was not going to be a part of what Phillips represented. The ‘commissioner’ of the UFC/MMA, could make that same statement regarding Tito without getting personal and I think the sport is better off.
This is all premised on the UFC wanting to be a mainstream force…
by lcollins1 on May 9, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, all of this is usually based on the false presumption that there’s one way to get into the mainstream. This is the sport of fighting, not a stick and ball sport. Who cares how David Stern acts? It’s irrelevant. I learned long ago that trying to appease people that have no long term interest in your success is the best way to commit business suicide.
You don’t jump into the mainstream. Again and again I see this confusion. You do it on a slow and steady growth trajectory, the idea that a nicer image would get them on Sportscenter is preposterous. Honestly, talking to the people at ESPN is all someone has to do to realize this is insane. The ONLY times UFC gets coverage is when Dana harasses them so much that they feel they have to do it. The executives at ESPN hate MMA, they don’t think it’s a legitimate sport. The only way to change that in the long run is a slow and steady growth among the young males that will one day be key decision makers there. It’s not by trying to appease people that hate the entire concept of the sport by cutting out F bombs.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think it’s about appeasement, it’s about professionalism. I think getting personal, emotional and condescending towards powerful interest groups(gay people) or specific players (Tito) gives fodder to the notion that MMA is an archaic, brutal sport. And that’s not professional. And, maybe professionalism isn’t important to a business model, but I think it is.
And, I don’t agree that ESPN pays attention to MMA when Dana “harasses them so much they feel they have to do it”. Maybe if I called ESPN enough they’d pay more attention to ping-pong because I’m such a good harasser.
I think ESPN pays some attention as they realize the money it generates. Why does ESPN pay attention to the Dallas Cowboys, the NY Yankees and the NY Knicks? The Knicks – A terrible, dysfunctional franchise. Money. As a sport/team generates money, it forces attention from the mainstream media.
MMA’s got the young male audience. I would say the growth of the sport, or at least the long-term stability of the sport is secure. My question is whether that stability is going to look like Vince McMahon’s WWF or Roger Goodell’s NFL? I know which one I’d rather see.
by lcollins1 on May 9, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The growth of the sport is nowhere near secure. Every single company that tries in the US loses tens of millions of dollars except the UFC. It exists on a very precarious position, entirely dependent on UFC PPV revenue. Nobody else has been able to succeed at all, including noted billionaires that have had success elsewhere. And all these millions lost came after Dana established the industry.
People delude themselves. This is the sport of people beating the shit out of each other. Hey, I think a flying knee to the face has a lot more to do with the sport seeming brutal than an F bomb. Honestly, the MMA bubble is hilarious at times, this isn’t tennis, people win by getting on top of someone and punching them in the face, and a bald guy that makes homophobic comments is the obstacle?
As far as ESPN goes, you are simply wrong. If they had their choice they would never acknowledge the sport even exists. They do it begrudgingly and because Dana is there banging down doors constantly. If you called ESPN they’d ignore you because you’re not Dana White.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your engaging in a circular argument: The only one that is successful is Dana’s UFC, and therefore if there was no Dana’s UFC there would be nothing.
This notion that ESPN pays some attention to the UFC because Dana White is such a big, bad scary scary man is ludicrous. It’s not about money or market share, it’s really about a relentless frontman? How totally unique. One of the pioneering projects of ESPN was the World’s Strongest Man. You think a lot of ESPN execs were interested in watching that sideshow?
Reality: They pay attention to the UFC because it makes money, because the common man, the reasonable man, and perhaps not the ESPN exec buys UFC PPV.
Regardless, the UFC can in the foreseeable future get a better front man for the job. Someone who can play the political game required to make the sport a national force and present in every state, and provide for the efficacy of the sport without alienating millions of potential fans.
The willingness of continued attempts to enter the market (showtime) in a shit economy speaks to the state of the sport today. Regardless of whether many have tried and many have failed, they’re still trying. See many start up banks right now? See many start up car manufacturers? No, but you do see Showtime inking a deal to put another production on the national stage. A huge risk, but one Showtime’sl willing to take because they know that Americans watch this sport. I’m done.
by lcollins1 on May 9, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know what got the Joe Rogan Lou Dibella segment on the air? Dana White spending months in ESPN offices lobbying for his product to be on the air, brow beating them about airing things nobody gives a shit about but not his sport. Do you know how Lesnar-Couture got a week straight coverage? The same thing, Dana telling them it would be the biggest fight ever.
I’m glad you’re done, because having to restate arguments after you misunderstand them is exasperating. Dana “alienating millions of fans” is hilarious, more like alienates 3,000 online fans.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bellator
I think your comments regarding ESPN’s disdain are off base. ESPN’s reluctance to cover the UFC may have more to do with it desire to get involved in broadcasting the sport itself, and less to do with its hatred of MMA. ESPN may have other interests as well.
by Rob Maysey on May 9, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is so frustrating to constantly hear about how DW brought us this, and DW brought us that. Is he really that omnipotent in this industry, or is the product marketing itself and he’s putting himself in the limelight? Maybe alot of the focus that is aimed at him, could be aimed at fighters, or fights. I don’t know about the DW fanclub but ,silly me, that’s what I pay for.
by bubbafat on May 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You just have to look at the long line of failed competitors.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 9, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Dana did will be taught in business schools for years. The Fertittas know what he did, his competitors know it, boxing guys know it…the only people still in denial are online fans.
by Michael Rome on May 9, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
+1
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on May 9, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is that UFC rose to prominence without competition. Everyone afterwards has had to deal with UFC already being the top dog, being able to outbid everyone and everything, having working relationships in place… If UFC could do it with 44 million, creating a succesful challenger these days is probably going to take at least ten times that much.
What I am trying to say is that the playing field between UFC and the failed competitors isn’t level.
by lhasafi on May 10, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
creating an industry is way harder than competing in one… even with a clear leader.
by mmalogic on May 10, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the PRIDE acquisition can be considered a disaster when the company is flourishing currently. It may not have worked out the way they wanted and they may have lost a bunch of money, but the UFC business model can handle the risk.
by Dropkick434 on May 9, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How may shows have they done in Japan? How many fighters transferred from Pride with their old contracts? It was 70 million dollars for nothing. There is no UFC in Japan. How is Pride flourishing exactly?
by bubbafat on May 9, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many events did the UFC cancel because of their losses? What cutbacks did the UFC have to make because of the deal? I never said Pride was flourishing, I said the UFC is flourishing despite the purchase. The only thing the UFC has to show for the deal is the video library and it did make available several pride stars that are now in the UFC because of the deal. They may not have transferred directly, but they did end up in the UFC. But still, it didn’t work out perfectly and instead of crumpling like lessor companies would the UFC shrugged it off and moved on towards steady growth. Every company makes bad decisions and the UFC recovered flawlessly. Buying comercial paper attached to subprime loans is a disaster while buying pride was simply a mistake.
by Dropkick434 on May 9, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s clear you said “pride acqisition”. I misunderstood. My aplogies to Dropkick. Thanks for the clarification too.
by bubbafat on May 9, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did say pride acquisition but by “the company” I meant the purchasing company, UFC.
by Dropkick434 on May 9, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason I think if Dana White had barely showed his face these last few years, the UFC would’ve grown just as much. Instead of looking at his ugly mug, and listening to him rant and rave, we’d talk about more fighters, see more fights, or we wouldn’t be sitting here arguing about how important to the sport DW has been. I prefer MMA over MMA promoters or promotions.
by bubbafat on May 9, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You want “MMA” more main stream? You want MMA to get to the next level?
let Zuffa do what its been doing.
Please count how mahy years it has been? do the same calculation for other sports…
Then you’ll come to appreciate what Zuffa has been doing and Dana.
I hear the Gross’s of the world cry and yell from the roof tops: “its not about Zuffa its about the fighters… yada, yada, yada”
If that were true this thing would have sunk along time ago… Its not about the fighters its about the FANS! If you want to see Fedor vs Aoki, Sylvia vs Mercer then continue harping about how its “supposed to be about the fighters” and ultimately the FANS lose.
Zuffa’s business model is predicated around “Staying in business to give the fans what they want not just today or tommorow, but next year and in ten years”.
If one guy above all else has been protecting the integrity of the Sport it has been Dana, not Lorenzo. Lorenzo is a bottom line guy and he’s great but if it wasnt for Dana this Bubble would have burst along time ago.
Everyone is dying to allow the subprime mortgages (the roy jones’es) and pushing all citizens to own their own homes (higher pay for fighters, and unionization) – little do these idiots realize the crisis and catastrophe they are championing.
The market and sound business will determine the growth… not some “artificial” mechanism. The market determines whats on espn… not espn. same thing for network TV.
Look at the second Elite show… and you’ll see why MMA will either not last on network TV or it will have to bastardize its product (ie japan) to make it work.
by mmalogic on May 9, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
bq."I hear the Gross’s of the world cry and yell from the roof tops: "its not about Zuffa its about the fighters… yada, yada, yada"
It’s all about the people making the cars, not the cars themselves.
Chrysler just filed bancruptcy with that attitude.
Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.
by Heenan on May 9, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The people building the cars caused the bankruptcy. UAW destroys companies.
by Riney on May 9, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is a good place to end this line of discussion. Thank you everyone.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 9, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moding at it’s finest. There was a possibility that you diffused a long rant including my full opinion on unions.
Well done.
Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.
by Heenan on May 9, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I put the success of the sport on the credits of the sport itself. Do we talk about who brought baseball into the mainstream with such passion? Hockey?Boxing? No, no ,no. I watch hockey with the same personal intrigue as MMA, do I give a shit about what Gary Betman has done for the sport, no. Other than trying to keep hockey teams with dramatic fiscal losses in cities where hockey just wasn’t ever going to make it. See, I just made your point dammit.
by bubbafat on May 9, 2009 7:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In short:
You have a “million dollar” question.
Zuffa has a “Billion dollar” answer…
Nuff said.
by mmalogic on May 9, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dana should and will be the man to lead our sport to the next step. Compare him to Don King (or 90% of boxing promoters) and tell me who loves his sport more. Bud Selig owned a team while commish (conflict of interest?) and has hurt baseball more than any HGH scandal.
As far as his professionalism and image, have you seen any of the idiot CEOs in America today? Dana won’t let some network jackass bastardize his incredible product to appease some online fansboys or anyone else. In todays society we have sex/drug/racial scandals almost daily. I kind of consider Dana a cowboy, a breathe of fresh air, a champion of our sport. Its not that Dana needs to be a good lil boy for ESPN. ESPN will need Dana White.
Basketball is in a lot of trouble, same with hockey. ESPN airs bowling/cards/cheerleading for fucks sake. In a few short years when MMA is impossible for anyone to ignore we will see everyone hop on the Dana train.
Dana should and will lead us to the main stream and he won’t let our MMA get messed with.
Name another man in the sports entertainment business today who started with unsanctioned dirt and found a handful of diamonds?
If anyone could do it, Affliction would put on more than 1 show every 9 months.
And Dana, I still want Babalu, Vitor, Fedor and Lawler.
by Riney on May 9, 2009 7:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i never got the dana white comparison to selig,stern or goodel myself. he is more akin to the likes of don king, or even vince mcmahon t6han those 3, but the best comparison i can think of with dana white is teddy brenner, the hof boxing promoter.
by bdw on May 9, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Such a polarizing topic
To me, it’s not even a matter of debate. First of all, this isn’t American Idol. The Fertitas are going to keep Their Man in place as long as he continues to make the business successful, and he’s got a long track record of pulling rabbits out of his hat, not to mention the loyalty factor of having been there from Day 1. Who else is going to do it better? This guy has years of on the job training nobody else has. Yeah, he occasionally sticks his foot in his mouth, but that’s because he’s out pushing the game and promoting and making himself available. Personally, I’m thankful for everything Dana has done for the sport and the slings and arrows he has to bear as the public face of the UFC.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on May 9, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Polarizing means 50% hate you and 50% love you… give or take.
Dana is not polarizing. 95% of the fans love Dana.
by mmalogic on May 9, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I know 95% of the people here love him, but most of my friends who watch MMA can’t stand him. I’d say “polarizing” is a perfect term.
by Farthammer on May 9, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he leads the largest MMA promotion out there. These are the same people who hate Microsoft or IBM or anyone who succeeds and is an industry leader. Walmart is EVI
by Riney on May 9, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
First of all, saying Walmart is evi is just mean.
Second of all: they hate him for all the reasons you could guess: He acts like an arrogant tough guy. Nobody likes the arrogant tough guy. Especially when they have no reason to act so tough. At least when Tito acts like a tough guy, you know he can wreck shop on 99% of the population.
My friends can separate the greatness he has done for MMA, from the public persona he presents, as can I. I love the UFC and realize it’s the best promotion by far. Doesn’t mean I can’t think the guy is a douche.
by Farthammer on May 9, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Similarly, just because the guy’s a douche doesn’t mean he’s not the right guy for the job.
by subo on May 9, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right – my problem with Dana has nothing to do with his performance on the job. I and most of my friends just think he’s a tool.
by Farthammer on May 10, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Polarizing doesn’t mean 50/50.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 9, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Polarizing mean splitting into 2 groups… The definition of “polarize” is a split of positive and negative which is of EQUAL energy.
How is Dana “polarizing” when one group clearly outweighs the other?
Controversial, yes. polarizing no.
example:
80% of americans like what Obama is doing. 20% hate it. You cannot say he is polarizing.
With Bush at one point around 50% loved him and 50% hated him… in this instance you can use the term “polarizing” accurately to describe him.
by mmalogic on May 10, 2009 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty new to the sport...
I don’t know really all the different brands that have been around and whether or not Dana White is great for MMA or not. But what I will tell you is the reasons I follow MMA now over Boxing…
1) I don’t see, maybe since I am new at this sport and don’t have the critical eye yet, them protecting fighters to lead up to a bogus championship run. In boxing, you see young guys with ridiculous records that haven’t fought anyone.
2) I don’t see the weak weight classes that you see in boxing. It just seems so much more competitive in MMA compared to boxing.
3) MMA puts on good matches for free. Its pathetic the quality of matches that boxing puts on cable TV. MMA just seems to realize all the right things boxing used to do but doesn’t do anymore.
4) Dana White seems to realize that anyone fighter can’t be bigger than the health of the company. Look at those idiots that handled Kimbo Slice. I don’t know shit really, but I could tell that Kimbo was a joke.
I don’t know exactly what Dana White has personally done for the sport, but I remember when I was a teenager and UFC was still doing those insane multifight in a night championship crapfests, and it completely turned me off the sport. I seriously didn’t realize it at first that the two were related as much as the are when I first started watching it a few months ago. They protect the fighters, have real weight classes, and don’t do the insane gimmicky shit, like putting a tiny guy up against some obese steroid freak.
I don’t like the MTV style crap in the Ultimate fighter, but the matches at least are usually pretty interesting. Again, I don’t know where to find fights like that on basic cable. Of course, I could probably be watching utter crap and not realize it. I can’t think of a sport that I picked up and felt as accessible as MMA. You can’t tell me that mainstream sports like NBA haven’t noticed its rise and are worried.
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace
"
by UMBC Oriole fan on May 9, 2009 8:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kudos on joining and nice first post.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 10, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dana White’s polarizing outlandish personality was a necessity when the sport was being brought from criminalization to the mainstream.
This same necessity is in question now that the sport is on the verge of becoming mainstream, I would not say it is there yet, but it is very close.
Do we still need someone who is banging the drum so loudly it is overcoming all the positive and negative arguments that are natural for the sport?
Or do we need someone who can become the silent diplomat that can provide a similar function without drawing the same ire from the public?
Either way I cannot see it being a factor in slowing down the exponential growth of MMA, if this economy is having little effect on the profit, I highly doubt a controversial president that offends people will have a greater effect.
Overall I’d keep Dana to stay because his personality is growing into an industry itself and even the most negative press about him still draws attention to MMA, for good or bad.
“There’s no such thing as bad publicity.”
by DirtyML on May 9, 2009 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The thought of pushing Dana White aside for someone who behaves in a more polished manner isn’t even a remotely constructive idea if you believe he is responsible for a the bulk of the UFC’s success. Were he just a front man, it would be no big deal to exchange him for someone else. I’m inclined to believe that Dana is still where he is, because he brings a lot to the table.
While his behavior is a potential liability, the potential (and proven) rewards spawned from his leadership far outweigh said liability. There is much more to running a successful business than dealing with the media. There are many eccentric, rough-edged individuals who have been extremely successful, and there are smooth-talking, media darlings who are unable to do the things behind the scenes that must be done. The fundamental business issues that are not seen or written about everyday are what’s most important. That’s one thing I’m sure of.
In other words, this isn’t Utopia. No one’s perfect. It’s as simple as weighing the good aspects of Dana against the bad, and then looking into the abyss at potential replacements. I don’t see a viable alternative. I don’t even think that Dana’s behavior is that large of a liability. We’ve seen talented leaders ushered aside in favor of someone who fits more closely into what’s thought of as an ideal mold. However, the ideal mold is nothing more than a myth like Bigfoot and responsible government spending.
by Cannon Jacques on May 9, 2009 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec’d.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 10, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone’s so concerned about reaching the “next level.” Without White, there wouldn’t even be A level. Who cares if it goes mainstream. It wouldn’t be as special if every choad at the water cooler out there was talking about it, slicing and dicing names and records, asking if Kimbo Slice is still the champion or not.. It’s their loss for not discovering the purest sport on the planet in the first place. They don’t deserve mma, and we need to quite worrying about what people yhink about it. Piss on em
by Josh H. on May 10, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted to make a post in this FU**ED UP thread. Hi!
"Negative, negative. I gotta stay lean and lightning and ready to fight." Capt. H.M. Murdock
by BadB on May 10, 2009 2:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone mentioned it earlier but it needs to be said again. Dana isn’t your typical CEO, because an MMA org is not your typical business, and to be perfectly honest, that’s fine.
Look at the economy today, “typical” CEOs are running banks, the stock market, cars, and everything else into the ground. Dana, the loud mouthed asshole from Southie is raking in the cash, that’s all that matters.
We’re moving into a new generation of businessmen and CEOs. Mark Cuban doesn’t have the potty mouth that Dana does, but he’’s made billions being a pain in the ass and being controversial himself.
by Phildo on May 11, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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