Quote of the Day: Dana White Responds to John Hackleman
by Eugene Schelfaut on May 8, 2009 5:09 AM EDT
Email
Print
In reply to suggestions Chuck Liddell should retire after his April 18th loss to Mauricio "Shogun" Rua, John Hackleman explains his position to Sherdog:
“If Chuck was getting the s--t beat out of him by a bunch of nobodies and getting knocked unconscious all over the place, I would try to influence him to retire,” he continued. “But since I don’t see that –- Rashad was the only time I’ve seen him actually knocked unconscious –- if he really wants to still fight, and I think it’s in his heart, I don’t think anyone, including Dana, should take his livelihood and his love away.”
Dana White, however, disagrees:
"Obviously, John Hackleman didn’t pay his house off yet. John Hackleman needs some money, because anybody who claims they care about Chuck Liddell even a little bit would not be making these f--king statements," White told Sherdog.com Thursday.
HT: weoweoweo
95 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Yeah, I know.
I will play my game beneath the spin light.
Absurd Meridian
by Eugene Schelfaut on May 8, 2009 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Since when does White tell Sherdog anything? Was there reporter in a trench coat, fedora, and fake mustache?
Yea,
Dana must have been SO pissed at Hackleman that he forgot where he was and who he was talking to for a second…its been known to happen.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on May 8, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
That was my first thought too.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 8, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Dana’s got the general idea right, but the line he’s taking is way too hard. Chuck’s not 9 years old.
I love his line
You haven’t heard Chuck saying ‘I still want to fight’, it’s the people that can potentially exploit what he has left in the tank.
by Derek Suboticki on May 8, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Has hell frozen over?
or did Dana know he was talking to Sherdog?
by The Bronzeville Bully on May 8, 2009 5:51 AM EDT reply actions
That's the real headline here.
Maybe Hackleman just pissed him off so much that he couldn’t help responding.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 8, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Rashad was the only time I’ve seen him actually knocked unconscious
What, Rampage & Shogun weren’t close enough? He’s got to be dead before you’ll stop him?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 8, 2009 5:53 AM EDT reply actions
I recall a TKO stoppage against Silva and a flash KO against Irvin.
At no point was Houston flopped on the canvas like a dead fish.
by Applejack McNeil on May 8, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
He hasn’t had the long career or massive beatdowns Chuck has. And the last fight was a sub against Schafer.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 8, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I forgot, I just remembered the GnP Schafer was laying on him first. However, according to Houston and his people he had something like 40 or 50 matches which they can’t get counted on his official record.
Also Travis Fulton is 245 matches deep so I don’t think a long career actually slows people down that much
fulton also boxes and has 30 or 40 fights in that game, though if you see him fight it looks like he takes dives against anyone with a pulse.
the problem comparing fulton and liddell is that i cant remember fulton losing and being laid out and really really hurt. he knows how to minimize taking damage because he looks at fighting scrubs in nightclubs as his job. liddell is a guy trying to be a champion again. doesnt have a loser mentality. he takes hits.
Travis Fulton is the fucking ridiculous exception that proves the rule.
by Derek Suboticki on May 8, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention, even if you were right, what would be the point? That Dana isn’t intellectually consistent? Since when is he a professor? He’s trying to run a business here and protect his friend.
by Michael Rome on May 8, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Hackleman will have to wait until after the White/Atencio bout.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 8, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
????????????????????????/
WTF? Dana White gives an exclusive quote to Sherdog? If Dana went so far as to speak to a web outlet he absolutely despises, then Chuck is definitely not fighting in the UFC again.
Maybe Dana is groing up? :P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 8, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
WTF? *growing
damnit!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 8, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I AGREE WITH DANA!
i actually side with Dana White on this. This isn’t Brett Farve wanting to throw a football or Michael Jordan wanting to shoot a basketball. Chuck has been laid flat 3 out of his last 4 fights ( wand what happened?). Chuck could seriously end up getting hurt cause after all the talk of him changing up he did nothing but the same predictable chuck routine and he was caught and laid out once again. I Love Chuck for what he has done for the sport of MMA but the sun has to set on everybody’s career
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
I don’t think the debate is does Chuck have to retire or not. The debate is, who should take that decision, Chuck or Dana ? It’s one thing for Dana to come out and say he thinks Chuck should retire. But what Dana’s done is basically decide for Chuck without even asking him or his trainer. I would be pretty pissed if I was Chuck.
agreed
But the problem is, Chuck’s trainer is clearly giving Chuck bad advice. And if you didn’t know it, Hack and Chuck are like brothers. If Chuck is getting the absolute worst possible advice from Hack it forces Dana to act like … you know… Dana, and come out with a hard line. Believe me, the last thing Dana wants to do is humiliate Chuck and treat him like a child. Hack is forcing this. The whole thing is a shame.
( and this comes from someone who doesn’t care for Chuck, at all)
This is really true; Chuck has a lot of people in his inner circle who will be selling him one line – and to be fair, many of them probably have so much respect for Chuck that they aren’t seeing his deterioration for what it is – and if Dana were to take a hands off, “it’s your decision” type of approach… Well, all Chuck would hear is a bunch of people close to him saying “Keep fighting!” It seems crazy, but Dana is actually counter-ballancing the bad advice that Liddell is getting elsewhere.
Which makes me feel like I’m in some sort of bizarro-MMA world.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
dana is only doing the right thing homey. he likes chuck, knows he doesnt have it, doesnt want to see him get beat up. its like knowing that your friend is on that pipe and not doing anything about it. not only that, hes offering him a job for life. you can say whatever about a lot of what he does as a promoter and more of it is true than lies. but you dont see don king offering jobs like this to tim witherspoon and shit.
Dana White never ceases to surprise or amaze me. Just when I think that he’s beyond redemption, he says or does something that makes him seem like a decent guy. He really does have the fighters best interests at heart.
At least Chucks best interest.
If you're gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
by ThatGuyOverThere on May 8, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Good for Dana if he really gave an interview to Sherdog. This wouldn’t be the first time he’s shown the ability to bury the hatchet.
Also, I have no desire to be a ghoul and whistle past the graveyard like pro wrestling or NFL fans:
A 1994 study of 7,000 former players by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health found linemen had a 52 percent greater risk of dying from heart disease than the general population. While U.S. life expectancy is 77.6 years, recent studies suggest the average for NFL players is 55, 52 for linemen.
linemen are big boys. i mean if ron waterman and ricco passed tomorrow i wouldnt be shocked but i dont see that being important to mma.
the more frightening numbers are the ones about pro athletes going bankrupt:
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364/1/index.htm
before you go "well mma fighters often go to college’, so do basketball players. every nfl player went to college for multiple years. they make a lot less on average than those guys too. now look at the mma landscape of old men – ken shamrock is still going and broke. don frye is still going and broke. randy couture leveraged a lot on his future as a fighter. too bad hes almost 46. coleman is broke, randleman is broke, goodridge is broke. thats what keeps these guys going. at least liddell is getting a job if he quits
Sure, they are big boys, but being tall with a big frame doesn’t explain a 25 year reduction in life span. Doing steroids and getting hit in the head repeatedly take years off your life, we agree on that, right?
As for the financial problems and college, believe me I know. There is no level of income at which you can’t find a ton of people living paycheck to paycheck.
A lot of them also don’t know how to have a healthy lifestyle when they aren’t doing rigorous athletics for the better part of the year. Many former players – including guys like Dan Marino! – ballooned to very unhealthy weights after they stopped training for pro sports and seemed almost helpless to understand the difference in their biological energy use. For a lineman, when you START at 250+ pounds, that’s bad news.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on May 8, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
God, I don’t even want to think about that.
I wonder if a similarity is that many of these sports are based on an ideal of invulnerability and athletic perfection that discourages athletes from contemplating life after the sport until it is too late. They always say that it’s almost impossible for someone to play defence in football if they are contemplating injury because they will pull up at a key moment out of a sense of self-preservation. Could it be a parallel? I don’t know, but I always wonder how the culture around a particular sport influences the behaviour of the people in it.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on May 8, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see what is so frightening about millionaires being dumb enough to blow more money than most people could ever dream of having. Athletes dying is much worse than athletes going broke.
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on May 8, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
most athletes that retire from basketball or football generally dont return to it. if they did they wouldnt get hurt. what is scary about broke old fighters is that they dont stop fighting until they are forced to stop and they will do anything they can to try and get around that. ali had brain damage so he fought in the caribbean for his last fight. others go to indian reservations, japan, whoever. then things get really ugly
You fire someone, ok, but WTF you don’t get to tell them what they can or cannot do with their lives. Honestly his attitude toward chuck is disgusting, and he dare to call himself a friend when it’s only business, most probably because a megalomaniac can’t have any friends.
Nail on the head. Well his attitude isn’t surprising considering that he feels like he owns each and every one of his fighters, which he practically does. He shouldn’t have any right or say so in whether Chuck continues to fight, but unfortunately if Chuck does decide to continue somewhere else, Dana will probably tie him up in legal red tape so that he can never move forward. Knowing the contracts UFC has these guys sign, he probably owns Chuck’s likeness from here to eternity so that even Chuck’s kids can’t make any money off the Liddell name.
And has everyone noticed that Dana’s insult de jour is accusing people of being out of cash? Earlier this week it was Roy Jones Jr. and now Hackeman. Dana is one hell of a stand up guy. Not. It’s funny to me coming from a guy who seemingly cares about nothing but his company’s bottom line.
Wow…way to completely miss what Dana is saying. Chuck is his friend, he is saying this out of friendship and not wanting to see his friend get hurt.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
No, I read and understood what he said perfectly. I have top notch reading comprehension. And while I do agree that he does have concern for his friend, for Dana this also has a great deal to do with tarnishing the UFC brand. He doesn’t want Chuck to be the next Ken Shamrock both for friendly reasons and financial reasons. He hopes to be able to continue to make money off of Chuck’s name, and if Chuck is washed up and a joke from getting pummelled again and again, he has less earning potential. And then there’s Dana’s god complex. And then there’s that Dana would go ballistic if Chuck tried to go fight for another promotion. It’s about the bottom line. Everything is with Dana. That or his ego.
By the way, gotta love a guy who has a built in insult to other posters right in his signature. How polite and ironic considering this is a forum for people to express themselves in.
By the way, gotta love a guy who has a built in insult to other posters right in his signature. How polite and ironic considering this is a forum for people to express themselves in.
His sig is not only a great piece of advice that I struggle to incorporate into my daily life (and I think many should in theirs too), but is also hilariously ironic given that this is the comment section of a blog. It’s quite clever and hardly an insult to other posters. Don’t go over board there; you can disagree with the guy vehemently and not go blasting the sig you didn’t get. The ad hominem stuff never goes over very well here.
Back on topic: I think pretty much everybody commenting is really assuming a lot about both Hackleman and White’s respective motivations for this. Unless you have some intimate knowledge, I suspect that we just can’t say who, if either, are arguing their position based on friendship and/or money.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 8, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t engage in unprovoked ad hominem attacks. I found his response to my post to be a bit rude in the first place. When you read his reponse to me and then you see that sig at the bottom, it can add a different tone to a sig that may have in fact been meant to be ironic, but in a certain context it can appear insulting. I think I made clear that I understood the possibility of his sig being ironic, but again, when the post attached to it borders on being rude, well, I think it leaves the sig open to interpretation. Sorry if you found my post offensive, but I didn’t find the post to which I was responding to be the most polite thing I’ve ever read either. There is certainly a much more respectful way to respond to another person’s opinion than, “Wow…way to completely miss what Dana is saying,” don’t you think?
THIS
Back on topic: I think pretty much everybody commenting is really assuming a lot about both Hackleman and White’s respective motivations for this. Unless you have some intimate knowledge, I suspect that we just can’t say who, if either, are arguing their position based on friendship and/or money.
If your conspiracy theory were true, Dana would just keep booking Liddell into either super-fights with similarly over-the-hill fighters (everyone knows that fights like Chuck-Randy, Chuck-Coleman, Chuck-Mirko would sell), or he would let him KO scrubs for a year to build up a fake title run and milk the last of his popularity. Either route would bring in tons of money without “tarnishing the brand”. That’s not what’s happening, and it isn’t because of fear for the brand; as incomprehensible as it may seem, the mainstream fans seem to still want to see Liddell fight.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
So, Dana is SO concerned for Chuck’s health that he won’t let him fight one more time against a can? There is a reason this is the stopping point. Dana made it clear BEFORE the Shogun fight because he KNEW he could not give Chuck his last fight on the contract.
He can’t have Chuck continue to fight in the UFC at a lower level because he can’t fool the fans into thinking Chuck is not fighting cans. He might get him killed if he signed CroCop and Randy might actually give Chuck a beating at this point.
Most importantly, he simply CAN NOT allow Chuck to leave the UFC free and clear and show up on CBS a year from now.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on May 8, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But that’s just it. Chuck has too much self-respect to fight cans and Dana knows that. Chuck would want to fight top competition and Dana doesn’t think Chuck can beat top competition anymore and won’t let him face any. But if Chuck wants to keep fighting and facing top competition, he can go do that in Affliction if Dana won’t let him, or wherever the other top fighters end up if unfortunately Affliction folds. Dana can’t let that happen. He would probably have Chuck wacked before he’d let Affliction or Strikeforce have him and gain a bit more credibility.
The further comments about how Hacklemen is not anyone without Liddell and how there are no other Hacklemen produced fighters who are any good was a bit low.
But hard to refute…? I mean, how many posters on here have said something similar? How many were saying it right after the loss to Rashad, and how much excitement was generated when it was said that Liddell was going to train with ATT? It’s just so… fishy that a guy of Liddell’s standing and caliber has rarely been associated with other top fighters as training partners, and that his camp has never produced any other fighter of real note (I know that sounds like a shot at guys like Glover Tiexiera; I don’t mean it to be, I’m just trying to be relative).
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Dana has a point
I hear the arguments related to Chuck fighting lower-caliber fighters to stay in the game, and that would be his choice; however the difference here – and Dana implies this point – is that Chuck doesn’t NEED to fight. I don’t think Dana is saying that he won’t let fighters take risks but that if there’s no reason to take the risk, why take it? Also, I think Dana is trying to preserve what legacy Chuck has left. He’s worth more to the UFC and probably himself if he hangs ’em up now rather than go on like many heavyweight boxers to fight meaningless tomato cans and forever tarnish their legacies.
The "Dana Is His BFF" argument...
is getting a little too much play at this point. Yea, Dana cares about Chuck and doesn’t want to see him suffer further brain damage BUT
He also knows that he can’t give Chuck that last fight on his contract and THEN ask him to retire because Chuck will simply go to another organization. Part of it may be some strange version of love that Dana has for Chuck but people should not be fooled into thinking this isn’t largely a business move as well.
Chuck getting KO’d by Houston Alexander= bad for the UFC’s image.
Chuck fighting on CBS= bad for the UFC’s bottom line.
The only way Dana can still make Chuck work for the UFC is if he is by his side, kinda like when they went to Talledega, as an ambassador for the sport. Otherwise, Chuck is either a liability or potential liability if he continues to fight and Dana knows this.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
Very good points. What you said about leaving Chuck with one fight on his contract and never letting him have that fight is at the heart of this situation. That’s what this all boils down to and Dana knows he can keep Chuck hanging on indefinitely like he did with Couture (until Couture finally caved, that is) and keep Chuck from ever moving on to another organization. At least that’s probably what he hopes to do. I don’t know how that would stand up – if Dana owes him one more fight and won’t give it to him, I don’t see how they can legally keep him from moving on, but when you have as much money and lawyers as UFC does, I’m sure they can buy just about anything.
My Thing Is...
if this was REALLY just about friendship, wouldn’t you give Chuck(if he still wants to fight) a can to fight out his contract? The UFC has no problem bringing in cans when they want to. Elvis Sinosic anyone? After the fight you could say:
“Hey man, its been a good run but I don’t want you fighting anymore. You are hurting yourself and the UFC’s image. You are making too much money to just fight cans or get KTFO. If you wanna keep fighting, that’s on you but we are not re-signing you.”
Dana could still offer him an office job and Chuck would have the free will to make his own decision. Something tells me Dana is not interested in this scenario.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on May 8, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it interesting that Hack thinks Chuck will be a trainer at the Pit when he retires.
A HOF MMA Icon is going to be a trainer at somebody else’s gym?
Dana could/should have been less outspoken and loud about this, but I think he is correct.
Hack went from saying Chuck was only stopped twice (not true) to now saying he has only been KO’d twice. So we should ignore the Page and Shogun TKOs? I do think that Dana is correct in that Hack’s fortunes will drastically change when Chuck retires.
The Pit is only known for Chuck. Is anyone going to remember The Pit after Chuck is done??
I don’t think for one second Dana is doing this as a friend. He is doing this because even the casual fan is realizing that Chuck sucks now. He won’t be able to sell a PPV, therefore he is worthless to Dana.
He can still sell…
You dont think a:
Chuck vs Forrest
Chuck vs Franklin
etc…
will sell?
by mmalogic on May 8, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
People will still pay to see Chuck. To suggest otherwise is just ridiculous.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
To suggest that something aside from your opinion is ridiculous is ridiculous.
But I should have been more clear: Chuck cannot sell a PPV as much as he could before. Dana is not doing this as a friend he is doing it as a promoter.
To suggest Chuck can still headline a PPV or that Dana is acting magnanimously is ridiculous.
You’re wrong. He just sold more buys than he has in a while on his last show. He’s as big of a draw as ever. It’s funny how hardcores don’t get that wins and losses mean jack shit once you’re at Liddell status. How long did Tyson draw after he started losing? Chuck vs. Forrest would do 700,000 buys.
So unless Farthammer here thinks Anderson drew those numbers against a nobody, Chuck is still a draw.
This retirement talk would make his next fight even more widely bought.
by Derek Suboticki on May 8, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My friend is still wondering when the badass Ken Shamrock is gonna fight again, and to let me know when that happens…
Not everyone reads all this stuff out there as zealously as the majority of posters here or on the other message boards.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I haven’t seen the numbers for UFC 97 yet but I do agree if they did Chuck vs Forrest that it would most likely do over 700,000 buys.
How well did UFC 84 do because I don’t remember? For some reason I remember it being around 400,000 to 500,000 and that was probably Tito’s last fight in the UFC and he hasn’t won in a couple years and I consider him up there with Chuck as a draw.
That is utter bullshit.
Hate Dana all you want, but he and Chuck go back years and are do indeed often spend the holidays together. I understand that many serious hate Dana, but to let that color everything he does is sad.
As a minor fan of Chuck, I have to say I honestly don’t want to see him glassy eyed again. 3 times in 2 years is enough. Is there anyone that can watch Chuck’s confusion and sadness after the Shogun fight and tell me they want to see him jump right back in there?
Besides, if Chuck does not draw, Dana is not really hurt since the majority of Chuck’s income comes from the ppv buys.
Hacklemen basically confirmed his scumbaggery…
If you read inbetween the lines of what he said:
(Paraphrasing) “Dana has rich friends to fall back on”… (meaning I only have chuck as my meal ticket so dana can afford to look after chuck against his own (dana’s) interests, whereas I (hackelman) have to milk this puppy for all ive got.
I commend Dana for what he’s doing, but i think its not good business. Chuck can still have exciting fights with a “forrest” or a “Franklin” type.
I dont agree with how Dana is doing this for 2 reasons. 1. it makes chuck look like he’s 9, 2. this makes future negotiations harder (we dont want you to force our fighter to retire… etc…
This is akin to Dana fighting every effort to raise the ppv prices another 5 bucks last year. This would have had almost zero impact on number of buys yet would have increase revenues (pure gravy) big time.
Now you gotta wait to do this.
by mmalogic on May 8, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I do agree with this.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on May 8, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Whose methods?
Are you refering to Dana or Hack?
I don’t know MMA, 5 bucks is 5 bucks. Price hike into a recession could easily drop the PPV buys substantially. Or piss people off, or discourage them from buying one.
Personally, I think this is all BS. I don’t give two turds what Hackleman or DW have to say about Chuck’s retirement. I’ll lend weight to what Chuck says. Hacklemans got his best interests, DW’s got his best interests, listen to yourselves. Chuck decides whether it is in his best interests or not, put yourself in his place, I’d be pissed.
by bubbafat on May 8, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wish somebody made Ken Shamrock retire.
That’s funny that you bring up Ken Shamrock and you still are on the side of the argument that you are on. Granted, he is broke but Chuck certainly is not.
I’m just waiting for the day Dana responds to the wrong person and it’s someone who has nothing to lose. The dude needs to chill out and stop trying to act like such a bad ass. Just because you’re the president of the UFC doesn’t mean you’re always right and know how to fight like the guys that work for you. Bad Dana :(
by poundnground on May 8, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
