Take Away Points From Lyoto Machida vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 11:25 PM EDT
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Lyoto Machida's UFC 76 bout against Kazuhiro Nakamura is a very interesting fight that rarely gets mentioned these days. It's largely forgotten because it was boring, and it wasn't really a big fight. It also was not Machida's best performance.Machida's most under-appreciated tactic is his use of the clinch. If guys ever manage to corner him, he clinches up before they can get off, pushes himself off, and establishes distance again. It frustrates the hell out of guys to spend minutes chasing Machida, finally find him, and then find themselves in a position where they have to start over again once he clinches and resets. He also likes to come in from the outside, land a punch or knee, and then immediately clinch up to avoid any wreckless exchanges. In other words, if you're going to get him on a counter, you have to get him on the first strike, because you don't get a chance to exchange with him.
Dirty boxing deep into a fight appears to be Machida's greatest weakness. He was hit by Tito from that position a few times in the third, and Nakamura had some success late in this fight. He landed one great elbow in the clinch that shook Machida up. At the same time, he was dominant in the clinch early on, so maybe it's a cardio issue for Machida? People blame his exhaustion in the Tito fight on the flu, but he didn't really get stronger as the fight went on in this one. Perhaps cardio for Lyoto is more of a question than we think.
All this being said, Machida still easily won the fight against a game opponent. He had great body kicks and left straights, and was very good at delivering damage from the top. Machida says the hardest punch he's taken in the UFC was in this fight, and if it's the one I saw, it simply speaks to his amazing defense because it frankly wasn't much.
I did a post a week or two ago on what Rashad needed to do to win, and after watching this fight and others it's clear to me that he needs to spend a significant amount of time training the clinch. If Machida controls the clinch, he controls the fight, and Rashad has to be able to punish Machida with knees or dirty boxing whenever he initiates it.
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i dont know michael.. i dont think i agree with you on this one..
i mean, sure he got hit a few times by tito in the clinch, but he also threw tito, silva and others to the ground in the same position.
He threw Tito in the first round. By the third, it was a different story. I think there is some legitimacy to this, and this coming from a Machida fanboy.
I love me some Sexyama!
Machida does seem to be stamina deficient as fights wear on so that’s a major thing for him heading into the Evans fight.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Part of the price he pays for his massive speed/quickness advantage is that he is usually the smaller man in the cage. He’s got the technique to overcome any size/strength disadvantage, but two or three rounds of a bigger man putting his weight on you takes a toll. Like anyone, his technique gets a little sloppier and slower the more fatigued he gets, so he is less equipped to deal with a size disadvantage once he wears down.
That said, Rashad might be the only guy in the division who is smaller than Machida. I don’t think he’ll be able to wear Machida out the same way a massive LHW like Tito did.
great post
this is what I’ve been thinking as well.
And its not that Machida is weak in the clinch its that the clinch is the only place he’s shown any vulnerability at all….well that and inside Tito’s guard.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
yeah, that’s the only place that he’s been hit, but I don’t think he has really lost those clinch battles.. (or maybe I’m just biased cause I love lyoto?)
by Anton Tabuena on May 8, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If Machida controls the clinch, he controls the fight, and Rashad has to be able to punish Machida with knees or dirty boxing whenever he initiates it.
That’s how I’ve viewed this fight ever since it was announced.
Machida has improved his clinch work, though. We’ll get to see how much against Evans.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
My spider senses say Rashad Evans. My spider senses are right 60% of the time, all the time.
Keep firing Assholes!
It must be nice to have such low standards.
That… doesn’t make sense.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on May 8, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Surpisingly
Machida’s clinch work has improved, and he’s so good at using Greco-Roman style of making an opponent’s momentum work to his advantage. He’s masterful at it.
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Yeah, I think we’re all kind of reaching to see where Lyoto is vulnerable at this point.
by Derek Suboticki on May 8, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s….good at it. Masterful is way too much. His skill in the clinch is nowhere near Randy or Dan Henderson.
I disagree, and I don’t believe he even has the same clinch game that is comparable to Randy Couture or Dan Henderson in any way. He uses your balance, weight, momentum to flop people in the clinch. He also is easily able to break clinch, and he’s even proved that he can topple guys in the clinch. It isn’t some huge overpowering advantage, but who says the clinch has to always work that way? Masterful may be pushing it, but good is an understatement.
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by Leland Roling on May 8, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
You can disagree, but the facts don’t support you. Machida’s clinch is not like the ones Rome mentioned. Sokodjou put Machida down twice from the clinch. Tito had success in Rds 2 and 3. Machida is very talented, but he’s not a guy with no weaknesses that many are trying to make him out to be.
I’m not saying he has no weaknesses. And I don’t understand this whole issue regarding being taken down or not. If anyone truly thinks Machida is invincible to the takedown, they aren’t watching his fights. He’s been taken down before, but I fail to see how this is significant. He’s generally been good on the ground, and hasn’t really been in any danger on the floor at all.
Regarding the clinch, Machida’s clinch isn’t like the ones Rome mentioned. Agreed. Where’s the debate here? Facts do support my statement:
He uses your balance, weight, momentum to flop people in the clinch. He also is easily able to break clinch, and he’s even proved that he can topple guys in the clinch.
He basically ragdolled Thiago Silva in the clinch, he broke clinches easily in the Tito fight, he clinched David Heath to the ground multiple times. Does it prove he’s some all powerful clinch guy, no… but it does support my initial claim. He’s not invincible in the clinch, nobody has said that yet. But it’s improving, and he’s very good in that area. I think saying it’s “good” is a bit of an understatement, but saying his skill is nowhere near Couture or Henderson? I don’t buy that because Couture and Henderson work different gameplans in the clinch in my mind.
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by Leland Roling on May 8, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the style is different. I think they try to press you in the cage, dirty box, and eventually put you down, or simply stay dirty boxing. Machida’s clinch isn’t dominating in that type of style. He isn’t trying to use that style dominantly. He usually moves to sweeps or takedowns immediately from the clinch.
Sure, he will dirty box a bit, but I don’t think it’s even close to how Couture works the clinch. If we are comparing Machida to that type of clinch, then this is accurate. He does have weaknesses there.
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by Leland Roling on May 8, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re using David Heath as an example? LOL.
Lyoto is good in the clinch. Perhaps very good. He’s not masterful, nor at the level of Couture or Henderson, which is the statement I have argued along with Michael Rome. Style of clinch doesn’t matter, effectiveness does.
And getting taken down does matter, as giving up TDs to Rashad could win rounds for Rashad, and we all know winning rounds is likely going to be very important in this 5 round fight.
Yes, Lyoto is very talented and good in every area, including the clinch. But he’s not the unstoppable force in every facet that many try to make him out to be.
by Hardcharger on May 8, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alright, fair enough. If we are arguing effectiveness, I will agree. I was arguing style, but I can see your point. And I agree, he isn’t an unstoppable force, but I think he could be a guy that sits atop the division and makes it seem as if he’s unstoppable due to his style.
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by Leland Roling on May 8, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Just so you know, I do recognize your points on Machida being able to disengage from attempted attempts at other fighters to establish the clinch. If this is perhaps his weak point, and if Rashad comes out and tries to clinch Machida in order to dirty box or perhaps set up TDs, if Machida is good enough to prevent Rashad from even grabbing on to him, then Machida has won that aspect.
The more I think about this fight, the more I wonder how it will play out. Very hard to predict.
Very hard to predict. I’ve watched Griffin vs. Evans a few times, and the leg kicks are an interesting piece of the puzzle. Griffin did well landing them, and I think Machida is quickly in getting out of the way after a kick. It could become a problem as well.
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by Leland Roling on May 8, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec’d for convincingly backing your points.
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by Leland Roling on May 8, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
One big thing for Rashad to watch out for is Machida’s rear hand. He doesn’t really jab, and reels you in to throw a quick straight. This usually leads to a trip on the front leg as he puts both of his hands in his opponents face to distract and block their vision.
I think Rashad will be quick enough to circle out when he sees this and make Machida be the one who grasps at air (for once). After this would be a great spot to come in quickly with a 1-2 or takedown. Because Lyoto tends to lunge forward instead of staying balanced, he will be in out of position to defend the takedown or throw a stiff counter.
He threw Silva around at will
His clench in that fight looked like the best in the LHW division. He also manhandles Tito several times similarly
True, but Silva is nowhere near the wrestler Rashad is, and this again was in the first round. Machida has looked questionable in the third round of grinding fight twice. I don’t know it’s a weakness, but we are looking for flaws in a nearly perfect fighter. I’m not saying one of these places is somewhere he sucks, but that it’s somewhere he’s not as amazing as he is elsewhere.
Good point with the Dirty Boxing!
That would be a perfect way to control movement just enough to land one of Rashads power punches
Rashad by Kimura
I really want to see something totally unexpected in this fight.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
You won’t be seeing me for a long time.
by Flying Gogoplata on May 8, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we know that Machida’s biggest weakness is clinchwork deep into the fight, then I’ll be damned if he doesn’t know this as well. And thus, he’ll probably train even harder to maintain his cardio & wrestling.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 8, 2009 2:41 AM EDT reply actions
Machida claims he did not have a strength and conditioning coach until after the Tito fight. Unfortunately we did not get to see whether his conditioning paid off in the Thiago fight. We could see however that he looked a lot more buff. If this coach is as good for the conditioning side then I think we can worry less about Machida’s cardio.
BTW could you post a gif of that Nakamura punch? I’ve been trying to find it again for the longest time without success. If I remember correctly it was a slightly loopy left that went around Machida’s right forearm.
by Flying Gogoplata on May 8, 2009 5:29 AM EDT reply actions
I think this is a pretty good assessment of Machida — I would say though that everyone gets hit when you are dirty boxing — so maybe that is why Rashad needs to do his best to get inside — what is problematic is that both these guys have improved so much and continue to improve, so it is difficult to gauge them from past fights. Machida did not tire that much in the Nakamura fight and he did have the flu in the Tito fight — to his credit he never used that as an excuse. This is a hard fight to call – I say Machida by Sub. That may sound ridiculous but I think it is as good a prediction as any.
Nice analysis but....
I don’t really agree with the cardio point. I think its more of an issue of complacency; a case of “i’m ahead, so why bother?” He was still active and landed the huge knee to Tito at the end of their fight.
Machida is elusive, but he will get hit once in a while, in the clinch or otherwise. It’s the recovery that matters, so I think he’ll do fine.
Its an unlikely claim that Machidas only weakness is dirty boxing against Evans. By all accounts Machida has the edge in the stand up, but I have to marginalize his advantages in this fight and go so far as to disagree with them, due to a combination of things Evans brings to the table. We haven’t seen Machida fight someone who can technically utilize speed, ko power and wrestling to bombard his defenses. While Lyoto has shown us a new and effective approach to fighting in the cage, let’s not forgot that it is a style very much his own and not time tested in MMA. Whereas Rashad is a fundamental athlete at the top of the food chain. Even though Lyoto is very impressive and is a testament to the creative potential in fighters, it’s almost hilarious to think that Evans is going to be bewildered by him. I hope I don’t come across like I’m not giving credit to Machida, because I give him tons and hes a worthy contender. Its just I believe people have perhaps had their expectations of this fight mislead with the hype surrounding Lyoto and his victories so far. Evans is sadly underrated, and in my book is the real deal and is well prepared to rack up the rounds or a knockout in this fight.
by toughaintenough on May 11, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
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