The UFC's Measured Approach to Freak Show Fights Is the Right One
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 3:34 AM EDT
in News
209 comments
A number of people are stunned Dana White turned down an offer to have Roy Jones Jr. fight Anderson Silva in an MMA match. It would make them a lot of money, and Anderson could tear him up in seconds with kicks and knees. Put aside all the issues of a gentleman's agreement, sanctioning, and the potential nightmare if Anderson lost. There is good reason not to do this aside from those reasons.
Now that the UFC is regularly doing huge buyrates, the vultures are out to make a quick buck off MMA. Roy isn't going to get any huge boxing paydays anytime soon after his last fight, and sees dollar signs in big crossover fights. You even had Shaq's trainer suggesting a Liddell vs. Shaq fight today on ESPN. It's at times like this we're lucky to have Dana in charge rather than your standard executive. Unlike your standard suit trying to advance his career, Dana is devoted to the future of the sport. It's his life, he lives and breathes it, and he's not going to flush it all away for short term gain or to pop a rating.
But what about Brock Lesnar coming in as a former pro wrestler? Or how about setting up Royce Gracie vs. Matt Hughes when everyone in their right mind knew it was a terrible mismatch? There are a number of distinguishing factors, but even the purist has to acknowledge that there is a place in a growing sport for fights that capture the attention of the general public. You have to draw the line somewhere though, and the best place to draw it is to turn down any fight that has the potential to do more harm than good to your sport.
Make no mistake, a fight like Chuck Liddell vs. Shaquille O’Neal on a mainstream network would bring in an incredible amount of viewers. On pay per view, it would easily shatter all records. But in the end, you create a situation where the sport is no longer the sell, the spectacle is. You end up in a cycle of "top this" where you stretch to bring in celebrity names to fight to capture the attention of the general public. Eventually, this hot shot mentality kills interest in the actual athletes in the sport, and you find yourself in the position Dream is in now, where they are offering Jose Canseco an opportunity to get himself killed just to pull the ratings they need to stay on the air. Dream didn't put themselves in that position, but their predecessors did.
You can’t rush into the mainstream. It takes multiple generations to be a truly mainstream sport. This idea that it’s disappointing that the UFC isn’t on SportsCenter nightly reflects a misguided notion that if only we tried harder, mainstream journalists would put the sport on par with basketball. Something like that will probably never happen, and if it does, it will only happen because the fans right now raise their kids as fans, and then those kids raise their kids as fans.
If this sport is to become a permanent mainstream sport, the freak show route won’t get it done. Doing those fights will push the sport right into the mainstream for a couple of years, but send it crashing back to where it was in the late 90’s once interest fades.
By promoting just the sport, the UFC is doing phenomenally even in an economy where everyone else is suffering. According to Dave Meltzer's newsletter (subscription only), UFC 97 looks to have done in the neighborhood of 625,000 buys based on trending numbers. That number is incredible, and it didn’t require any crossover mainstream appeal.
The UFC is entering a phase now where their goal should be a sustained, slow growth year over year. They are doing so well that it’s hard to believe they can sustain these numbers, but given their success there’s no reason to force things down a road that eventually leads to ruin. Unless business falls apart or they have to do this to appease Anderson and stop him from going over to fight Jones in a boxing match, this fight won't happen in the UFC.
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Completely agree
All crossover fights do is create chaos in the upper echelons of weight classes, stunt fighter development and dick up the whole idea of MMA being its own sport. This isn’t fucking Rock ‘n’ Jock softball.
625k? I guess Anderson can sell the occasional PPV.
Below me, credit will be given to Chuck for this outrageously good number.
by subo on May 7, 2009 2:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Chuck vs Shogun had a big story and Chuck always draws good. :D
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was all Chuck on the draw. Well, Chuck + Canadian blitz in a hot market + double main event. They ran a very effective ad for three days before the fight on this being Chuck’s last fight.
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, capitalize ‘one’ in your headline, you slacker.
I need some sleep.
by subo on May 7, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good article. I agree with the sentiment, although I don’t think it’ll necessarily take multiple generations for MMA to truly become a mainstream sport. Also wanted to point out…
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/05/06/mma-to-roy-jones-youre-not-welcome/#cont
Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker revealed on Wednesday’s conference call to promote the May 15 Strikeforce Challengers event on Showtime, that Nick Diaz’s manager called him hours prior to see if he would be interested in setting up a Nick Diaz vs. Jones MMA match. While Coker appeared to be lukewarm to the idea, his television partner, Showtime Sports SVP and GM, Ken Hershman, made it clear that he wants nothing to do with televising a Roy Jones Jr. MMA match
And I don’t know who this Luke Thomas guy is, but he seems to think…
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/5/6/867133/quote-of-the-day-demian-maias
With Ariel Helwani, Mike Chiappetta and Michael David Smith, AOL FanHouse’s MMA blog is a must-read.
by Meeaaat on May 7, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw the Hershman thing. But it’s irrelevant. They’d have to pay him too much to go there. The real question is Kelly Kahl and CBS, and whether they are interested.
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the real question is whether or not roy jones is actually serious or if hes talking out of his ass again. history says its him talking out of his ass.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree.. +10 bloodybrownie points!
Good points, and veryyy well written post..
by Anton Tabuena on May 7, 2009 2:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a reoccuring nightmare...
that Dana and the Fertitas go down in the jet before long we get UFC 112 Canseco vs. Coleman (Gary, not Mark)
by casey manrique on May 7, 2009 2:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s at times like this we’re lucky to have Dana in charge rather than your standard executive. Unlike your standard suit trying to advance his career, Dana is devoted to the future of the sport. It’s his life, he lives and breathes it, and he’s not going to flush it all away for short term gain or to pop a rating.
That made me think of this:
After reports surfaced that Dana White had nixed the idea of a fight between Roy Jones Jr and Anderson Silva occuring in the UFC, Strikeforce founder, Scott Coker, agreed to make the fight happen in Strikeforce. Nick Diaz would be fighting Roy Jones Jr.under MMA rules.
“We would absolutely set this fight up. Of course we would have to run it by Showtime for final approval, but I don’t see why we wouldn’t have this fight” -Scott Coker
It now seems that the only hope of seeing one of the legends of boxing stepping into a cage will be through Strikeforce.http://graciefighter.com/?page=news
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sadly I feel like CBS will jump at it. We’ll see.
By the way, Dana will probably use this as a reason to declare war on Strikeforce as “bad for the sport.”
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by your own estimation,
which I agree with, he would be right.
by Razreshat on May 7, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am surprised Coker would consider this.
by The Bronzeville Bully on May 7, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coker strikes me as the kind of guy who will CONSIDER anything, but I suspect he’ll come to the same conclusion as Dana when it comes time to make a decision. A Diaz-RJJ fight would make him a nice chunk of change in the short-term, but it would do nothing for the long-term growth of his brand.
by Steve4192 on May 7, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coker’s not afraid to pull the trigger on a pure entertainment fight but yea he may balk on this one too. Of course Roy Jones Jr probably wants enough money that the point is moot anyway.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A smaller promoter picking up an idea that the UFC passed on? No. Fucking. Way.
by subo on May 7, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coker was quoted on GracieFighter.com, a website owned by Diaz’s Cesar Gracie camp, as saying he would “absolutely set this fight up.” Coker denied that position on today’s media call.
“I’ve had several calls from different people saying, ‘Roy Jones vs. Nick Diaz, Roy Jones vs. Cung Le, Roy Jones vs. this guy or that guy, but it’s something that we haven’t really talked about,” Coker said. "I really don’t even know how serious it is. But the question is, ‘Does he want to fight in MMA? Does he want to fight in just boxing?’ These are all things that haven’t been fleshed out.
“I did get a call from Nick’s manager asking me if I’d be interested in looking at a fight between Roy Jones and Nick. I said, ‘Are you talking about boxing? Are you talking about MMA?’ He says, ‘In MMA.’ I said, ‘Well, that’s something we can definitely have a conversation about. That just happened this morning. That’s the extent of it.”
I will play my game beneath the spin light.
Absurd Meridian
by Eugene Schelfaut on May 7, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I get for believing anything I read on Graciefighter.com but it does sort of make you wonder what is going on between Nick’s camp and Strikeforce with them blatantly posting something like that?
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be lying if I said I had no interest in seeing this fight. The freak show aspect will always have a place in the dark area of my mind. However, the rational side of me tends to win out usually.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on May 7, 2009 2:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You end up in a cycle of “top this” where you stretch to bring in celebrity names to fight to capture the attention of the general public.
This reminds me, true story, of my college’s year end bug eating contest. Basically, the MC brings out a bug and selects three volunteers from the audience. The volunteers bid, starting at $20 to see who will eat the bug for the cheapest. Someone is always willing to eat it for either $1 or for free. (yes drugs and alcohol are involved, plus the power of the mob shouting the bug eaters on – which leads people to do stuff that a drunk or high person wouldn’t even consider.)
Anyway, my freshman year, someone ate an Australian walking stick, which is about 6 inches long. My sophomore year it was a pregnant cockroach. After that, there was no single bug that could live up to bugs past. The contest moved to eating multiple bugs, like 3 tobacco hookworms and 2 Madagascar hissing cockroaches at the same time. Then it became eating a combination of bugs while naked. By the time I was a senior, people were eating bugs off of other people’s genitals. When you go the freak show route, things can escalate quickly to places you never imagined.
by Jahbulon on May 7, 2009 2:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That is disgusting.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on May 7, 2009 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahahahahaaahahahahaha. haaaaaaaaliarious.
by funkyfetus on May 7, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrible. Maybe it’s just the cynic in me but let’s be real: RJJ is past his prime but is nowhere near shot. With 4 oz gloves anything can happen and he certainly possesses the power to ko anyone at that weight even Anderson. Dana is saying no because if Anderson were to lose, especially under MMA rules, not only is his “p4p #1” destroyed but the sport itself takes a huge pr blow.
Dana White is the same man who gave Brock, at 2-1 (1-1 UFC) and title shot because he drew fans. The credibility the UFC so proudly boasted about over Japanese MMA completely went out the window with that one move. I don’t care if he ended up winning the fight, that’s irrelevant; a 3-1 former WWE star being the HW champ of the biggest org in the world hurts the sport more.
by gunranger on May 7, 2009 3:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was a fight Brock was favored in in Vegas. If you have a situation where the champion is the underdog, it’s a justifiable fight. The only other potential fight at the time was Werdum, who got rocked by Dos Santos and was already in a scheduled fight a month later when Randy was re-signed. Kongo was a joke stylistically, and Gonzaga already got killed by Randy. They re-signed him and needed a fight, and went with the best one possible. It’s not like they had a loaded division of options.
There were a million reasons they did it, including the fact that they knew it would be a competitive fight. Not to mention, it was just a partial shot at the title, he still has to unify the titles.
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Kongo is a joke stylistically, yet Brock was the worst style matchup for Randy. That is why he was favored. I’d much rather a veteran get a title shot than a guy with a 2-1 record.
I can’t believe people justify this. There have been so many people I’ve tried to get into MMA think the sport is a joke because of that.
by gunranger on May 7, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brock Lesnar also brought in millions of fans to the sport too, you can never please everyone. Of course if people are judging a entire global sport based on that one fight then that speaks more about them than the sport or the UFC.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it doesn’t hurt the sport more because that NCAA national champion wrestler did win the belt against one of the most respected names in the sport today and will continue to defend it until someone beats him. If Roy Jones Jr was serious about MMA as a career instead of a one shot “lets box in a cage” fight it would be completly different. Both guys are legitimate athletes (Brock Lesnar was a elite level amateur wrestler before he ever thought about the WWE) but one guy made a career out of MMA and the other wants to do a single fight for a quick paycheck. The Brock Lesnar situation would only be the same if he left the UFC and took the belt back to the WWE to continue pro wrestling with the WWE is better than MMA gimmick.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the spin?
I bet the freakshow aspect was the second item to cross Dana White’s mind. His first thought was watching Roy Jones knock one his champions and UFC prestige to the canvas.
Could Roy Jones beat Anderson Silva in MMA match, No Way. Yet, even a casual observer can see Anderson Silva doesn’t have his head screwed on straight. Not a doubt in my mind Silva would ensure the fight be a striking match and he’d learn he is still miles away from the skill set of a professional boxer. Dana saw this too, which is why he axed it immediately.
by bignerd on May 7, 2009 3:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Put aside all the issues of a gentleman’s agreement, sanctioning, and the potential nightmare if Anderson lost. There is good reason not to do this aside from those reasons.
I think Rome was just concentrating on one aspect of this issue but there are a lot of other things going on.
by who me on May 7, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Dave Meltzer’s newsletter (subscription only), UFC 97 looks to have done in the neighborhood of 625,000 buys based on trending numbers.
Those are great numbers indeed, Chuck was the draw but sadly it’s the last time that will be said in the UFC still another big number put up by the UFC in a reccession things are all good in Zuffaland.
by Raker on May 7, 2009 4:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This post seems unnecessarily complimentary. It reminds me of the Chris Rock stand up spiel where he speaks of somebody bragging about having never been to jail when obviously. The UFC is successful in promoting themselves as the home of the best MMA fighters on the planet, all of whom are striving for a chance at the coveted UFC belts. RJJ isnt looking for a career in MMA and has never fought (or trained?) MMA. It would be a 1 off fight which we know the UFC doesnt do. It would be ludicrous for anybody at the UFC to even consider putting this fight on.
It’s at times like this we’re lucky to have Dana in charge rather than your standard executive. Unlike your standard suit trying to advance his career, Dana is devoted to the future of the sport. It’s his life, he lives and breathes it, and he’s not going to flush it all away for short term gain or to pop a rating.
Comments like those above make me sick. I would imagine that the vast majority of ‘standard suits’ would not promote this fight if they were Danas position. The reason those suits may look to promote this at a different promotion is due to the fact that their, newer, less established promotion is chasing headlines, focus and viewers like a greyhound chases a rabbit. Their survival may depend on it. Lets see if Dana were more keen to promote RJJ v Anderson if the UFC were struggling to make a buck and averaging 100k ppvs.
Dana is solely interested in the UFCs continued growth and success. RJJ v Anderson is an uneccesary risk with minimal benefit, if any. The decision to not promote this fight is expected. Dana does many things well and many things poorly. Lets save his praise for times when he exceeds expectations, not simply meets them.
by GeeDub on May 7, 2009 4:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dana has already passed on an opportunity like this back when Mike Tyson was willing to do anything for a buck (WWE, Cage Rage, etc.). He could have booked Tyson versus Chuck and done HUGE numbers, but he knew that it would be a one-time pop and wouldn’t do anything for him long-term.
Same thing here. Jones has no interest in making MMA a long-term gig. If he did, I am sure Dana would be happy to promote him the same way he did Brock Lesnar. But this is obviously a one-time money grab, not a career change.
by Steve4192 on May 7, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol he “passed on it”. mike tyson in the wwe was before he fought lennox and before dana owned the ufc. even in 2000 tyson would have cost them 20-30 million bills. there was no “passing” on tyson. get real, dogg
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyson was trying to fight in Pride in 2006 and there was talk of him wanting to fight Kimbo in 2008. Tyson has been talking MMA for a while now.
by who me on May 7, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tyson in pride wasnt for mma. hes brought up every couple of months by someone as a candidate for a big fight and nothing happens. i remember when holyfield/tyson 3 was announced for dubai last year LOL
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were talks about him fighting in Pride at the time, just because it never happens doesn’t mean that Tyson hasn’t been trying to score a fight and this wasn’t just going on pre-2000.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you dont remember well, so lemme spark your memory, dogg. tyson was gonna fight in macau on new years as part of the pride telecast, but it would be a boxing exhibition. back in 2006 he started on a world tour of doing those in youngstown, oh and fought corey sanders. the crowd shitted on it and no one bought the ppv, so the entire idea was aborted before it could go further; tyson was supposed to fight in australia, china, macau, korea, dubai, pretty much anywhere they had a ring and some regional chump he could go with for 4 rounds while wearing a shirt, that was the deal. he was training in planet hollywood casino in vegas while they were remodeling in a ring they pitch up by some slots and a bar.
anyhow pride wanted a big hook to get back on tv and get some ppv buys and they were hoping tyson would be it. it fell apart, big surprise. but tyson was never being set up for an mma bout ever. he had a contract with k1 to be promoted in japan should he fight there but his criminal record meant he wouldnt get in, so they gave him money for nothing other than a photo op with bob sapp at the bellagio. only thing he ever did was ref for a second rate promotion in the uk. i think it was cagewarriors, actually.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I know nothing ever came of it but the point was that it there was talk between the two side about it. If Dana White had tossed some money his way there was a real chance he would of snapped up the quick payday to fight Chuck which was the whole point. There has been talk and Tyson has flirted with the idea numerous times, obviously nothing ever happened with it (thank God) but that doesn’t mean that there hasn’t been talks.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, the talk wasnt of mike tyson fighting in an mma bout for pride in 1999. it was of mike tyson in a boxing match with headgear for pride on new years eve 2006. could dana white have snapped up tyson in 2007 for a fight with liddell? dude lots of people come to tyson with fights and hes not taken any of them in years, broke or not, and more to the point theres not even record of discussion with the ufc about having him come into fight at any point ever.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i should note that the point im making here isnt that the ufc has shown restraint by not using tyson but the fact is the window to which he might have been available was small and theres no evidence that he ever was or still is other than “hes broke”.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we’ve got to the point where we are arguing different things at this point. I wasn’t arguing that it did or didn’t I was pointing out that it could of happened during the Zuffa age.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe. who knows? tyson was never connected to fighting in mma. even against bob sapp it was to be boxing rules.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sick of the crap Brock is taking
the guy was a top amatuer wrestling champ who had a $250000 contract put in front of him with a 6 figure signing bonus. Can any of you honestly say you would say no cos i’d be ‘ok wheres the spandex and the baby oil’
MMA wasn’t big when he left college if it had been he would have went straight into it. he let WWE because he hated it and wanted athletic competition he now has it
by davec84 on May 7, 2009 5:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, its not like he was considering how his WWE career could possibly impact his MMA career in the future while reading the contract.
by Dropkick434 on May 7, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya people really need to get over the fact Brock was in the wwe who cares what he did before getting into mma. If he had come straight out of college after his career in wrestling and got the same kind of treatment he does now no one would say a thing. Also couldnt agree more with the article, very well written
by brazary on May 7, 2009 7:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
'Freah show' as a term has got to go
Only shows the ignorance of the user.
by AnonymousA on May 7, 2009 7:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup…that should be a K and because it isn’t my point is completely worthless.
by AnonymousA on May 7, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I messed up some syntax at the top too—the second I hit post I was like “come back little post, let me fix you” .
The fact that we actually care though is what makes BE what it is.
by casey manrique on May 7, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you see Chuck Lidell in a few years on HBO boxing against their top champion? no, because they respect their sport.
You want spectacle go watch the wwe.
Rome’s point of this turning into a slippery slope is spot on – because this will tarnish and potentially destroy the sport.
Chinese water torture is all that is needed – Time and care will take this sport to the next level.
Everyone uses Brock as an example… Brock didnt walk into a title fight – he first had some impressive performances against legit competition.
Same thing would be awarded Roy Jones. If he could come in and prove he can hang with legit competition then a fight with Anderson is fine.
by mmalogic on May 7, 2009 7:38 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Like the ceo of the company I work for tod me the other day. His job is to look forward two, three years and project where we are going. At the same time, make sure he doesn’t do anything that will put us out of business. Dana and the gang are making similar value judgements about a top boxer KOing a guy that desn’t care if he loses as long as he stands. Roy Jones is not Jose Canseco. He is a combat athlete. But I would agree that he needs a few fights before taking on the champ. The argument, though, that Brock earned his shot with a 1-1 record is BS. He proved he should be there by winning so its a moot point now, but he was 1-1 in the ufc.
by szucconi on May 7, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So was Randy Couture on his first title shot…
by mmalogic on May 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ufc has done a ton of freakshows under the guise of ‘legends fights’ in the zuffa era to get people to watch ppvs and will continue to for years into the future. in this case its a freakshow that does nothing for them since roy would never fight for them again if he won and is probably bluster from the interested party anyhow.
seriously roy talks crap like this all the time and nothing ever comes of it. even the showtime people are like ‘he calls us every week with a new idea’. then people sit down, they realize roy wants like 10 million, and then he decides to fight some tomato can instead. story of his career, keeps him in the news, blah blah blah. hes just gonna fight lacy on another independently produced ppv sometime in the summer where he makes most of his money on tickets. people talk more about roy on mma sites than on boxing sites now.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ufc has done a ton of freakshows under the guise of ‘legends fights’ in the zuffa era
Besides Gracie vs Hughes I don’t remember any “legends fights” ?
by who me on May 7, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tank’s two comeback fights, shamrock/kimo 2 [which was tank/shamrock originally], shamrock/franklin, mark coleman’s current shameful comeback. oh, and of course shamrock-ortiz 1, 2, and 3. none of those were really legitimate fights but there was public outcry or something for old guy vs. new guy and so they happened and happened and then happened again.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How were they not legitimate fights? They weren’t booked as “legends fights” they were just older guys who are still very active in the sport and fighting other places getting fights on UFC cards. I mean Randy Couture coming back from retirement to fight Tim Sylvia fits they mold you are trying to present but then Randy did shock the world and took Tim Sylvia apart. I’m not sure where Tank Abbott’s 2003 run in the UFC or Ken Shamrock coming back from Pride to the UFC in 2004/2005 wasn’t legit, heck when it was obvious Ken was washed up after the two Tito fights the UFC cut him(even though he could still draw). For that matter Mark Coleman’s UFC fight wasn’t very good but I don’t see where you could say it wasn’t a legitimate fight? You seem to be judging those with hindsight instead of with the facts at that time, none of them were booked as legends matches or as any kind of side show they were just older fighters making their last run in the UFC.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tank wasnt very active, he had been in WCW and out of mma for 5 years after he got thumped repeatedly. they brought in abbott to appeal to beer drinking rednecks looking for blood. using tank abbott is worse that dragging in roy jones. ken shamrock wasnt being put in the ring as a last run, he was there to lose and lose and lose as spectacularly as possible because he was old and still drew attention.
mark got lucky in that he fought a guy who completely underestamated him and made him look decent for about 2 minutes of the fight when he wasnt blocking punches and knees with his face. if chuck liddell needs to retire then coleman is 5 years past that point.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tank was brought in because he had been out of the sport doing the WCW and no one knew where he stood, after three fights they knew and he was out on his ass, just because he got a last run doesn’t mean that there were ulterior motives or it wasn’t legitimate fights. Ken Shamrock was still fighting in Japan regularly and honestly unless you have a condo in Dana White’s brain you can’t say he was brought in just to lose or that those weren’t legitimate fights, heck if that was all they wanted Ken for why did they cut him with fights still left on his contract? I agree that Mark Coleman needs to retire but once again they are still legitimate fights and he still has a legitimate chance to win fights, if he doesn’t win he will get cut just like everyone else has.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who didnt know where tank stood after an even fatter man beat him? or when belfort took his head off? he was out of his element in 1998. it was 2003.
ken took years off to wrestle too, came back, fought a couple times, lost when he thought the roids were gonna cause his heart to explode, fought another decrepit fighter-turned-wrestler and got his tito fight. after that he didnt beat anyone that wasnt a gashead famed for losing at ufc 3 until this year. the fight with kimo was a side show intended to draw viewers. franklin was a sideshow intended to draw viewers and make franklin a star. i dont even need to review what the fights with ortiz were intended for, why he fought sakuraba, or what the purpose of exc signing him to fight kimbo were.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ken needs to retire yes but people weren’t talking that way 3 years ago, the guy wanted to try a comeback and it failed (same with Tank). There is nothing at all wrong with a guy wanting to attempt a comeback in the sport, if everyone who lost a couple of fights in a row retired forever the sport would be a graveyard. Hindsight is 20/20 but you can’t judge their decision with hindsight you have to judge it by how things stood at the time. Those guys weren’t thought to be completly washed up at that time and there was nothing wrong with giving them a second chance, when they failed they were cut which is how the system works for every fighter.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
people were definitely talking that way 5 years ago about ken. they were talking that way after fujita. no one with a brain gave him a real shot against tito the first time, much less the third time. hindsight regarding tank? everyone knew it was a joke. mmaweekly and sherdog were churning out article after article about the ufc needing to distance itself from the dinosaurs because it was making them look bad.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t remember them and all I have found going back and looking is an article on Sherdog about Ken Shamrock and Bob Shamrock getting back together to train him for his fight with Kimo which was more of a feel good story than anything else.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you need to see articles about shamrock/tito 2 & 3 im sure you can search the archives here or fightopinion. i think they go back far enough
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shamrock vs Tito 2 and 3 got a lot of flack, of course the UFC cut Shamrock too. Heck Shamrock wouldn’t of got the third fight if fans hadn’t demanded it. Yes Shamrock was done that was the fight that proved he had no business in the UFC ever again but that doesn’t mean that Shamrock vs Tito 2 wasn’t a legitimate fight.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the fans demanding it doesnt mean it wasnt a ridiculous freakshow.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but then what is wrong with occasionally giving the fans what they want? The point was that Ken would of been cut after the second fight with Tito if it wasn’t for the fans.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing if youre alright with horrible mismatches and freakshow bouts.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Occasionally the fans do want those kinds of fights but that doesn’t mean that every time a older guy fights a younger guy or a fighter who’s had a losing streak tries a comeback it’s a illigitimate fight or a freakshow. Those guys are real fighters trying to fight in real fights for their careers and to advance in the sport and when they lose they get cut from their contracts just like every other fighter. It’s not some kind of special event legends fight it’s a legitimate fight with MMA fighters who are trying to advance their careers in the sport.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a good number of them are. hey, sometimes the freak wins. sapp beat hoost twice. you think that was something other than outrageous spectacle?
i dont even know what youre arguing. they arent freakshows because the ufc makes them so they cant be. wow i am convinced
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has nothing at all to do with the UFC I am just wondering why you are shitting on fighters.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying it was unfair to suggest that Tank Abbott wasn’t a legitimate competitor when he made his return?
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything about contender? Can guys have legitimate fights and not be title contenders? There is world of difference between saying a guy isn’t a title contender and saying his fights are illigitimate freakshow fights. Why is that so hard to understand?
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can the UFC make an illegitmate fight? If they signed Kimbo, aren’t there questions? How might he do in the UFC? Say he fought Brock Lesnar: similar win loss record!
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can (Shamrock vs Tito 3 was unneccesary from the sport standpoint, Tito had already proved Ken was washed up, Gracie vs Hughes was also one that was all entertaiment) but that doesn’t mean that all those fights are illigitimate freak shows. Your definition of illigitimate freak show seems to be anyone you think shouldn’t be in there fighting and that is what I don’t get?
Kimbo’s fights weren’t illigitimate even if his hype definatly was. Kimbo’s booking was in line with his level it was the fact that he was being pushed as the headlining face of EliteXC that was out of whack. The only way a fighter can prove themselves is to get out there and fight that’s is the whole point of the sport. They didn’t put Kimbo out there with baseball players and stand up commedians those were real mma fighters he was facing in the cage and he was trying to prove his value in the sport.
Brock got a break because of his name but he has proved that he belongs in the discussion, just because he didn’t run the MMA guantlet doesn’t mean his fights are freakshows he is fighting top UFC guys and if he loses he will fade away.
by who me on May 7, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tito/shamrock 2 was unnecessary too. shamrock had been exposed as not being elite years before in the first tito bout. nothing had changed to favor him. it happened because they both talk well and people wanted to see a beating. when they didn’t get enough blood and guts, they got it again.
kimbos fights probably werent legitimate because the opposition was probably paid to stand with him or paid to take dives. that is to say nothing about what they represent of the sport which is the lowest level. i mean butterbean and giant silva would be an even fight but its still atrocious
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t argue the Kimbo point because that is possible and that would make those fight illegitimate.
I also agree that Tito vs Ken 2 wasn’t really neccessary but it was a fight people were interested in and it was grudge match with some history to it, it was also Ken’s last chance for relavency in the sport which did mean something. I’m not trying to argue they were good fights just that you shouldn’t shit on them as freakshows it was a real fight with real consequences for both guys (for all practical purposes Ken’s career was on the line).
by who me on May 7, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will all laugh if Coleman wins his next fight won’t we.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if he ends up getting beaten into a coma everyone will just pretend they knew better.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why he had to have a meeting with NSAC to get his license for his next fight. There is a outside sanctioning body making sure these guys are capable of being in there(in the US at least).
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rome, you just earned your paycheck with this column. I agree with your every word in this well written piece. I realize that DW is a polarizing figure, but like you’ve stated above, he’s put his entire existence into this sport and bleeds for it.
What a lot of posters don’t often consider is that he could throw up his hands and walk away at any time because he has the coin, but doesn’t.
Well done.
by JAYGK95 on May 7, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Earned his paycheck alright - from Dana.
This article is complete horseshit. Does Dana pay you Rome? He was the one chomping at the bit to make a Floyd Mayweather/Sean Sherk Freakshow fight. Then when a boxer with a skill set who could win and wouldn’t make money took Dana’s challenge he dicktucked and said the fight wasn’t gonna happen.
by MuayThaiHasaBeltsystem on May 7, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While this comment is a bit rough… the entire Mayweather vs. Sherk ordeal is an interesting take. White was all about that matchup to prove MMA over Boxing, but now it’s the reverse.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on May 7, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only was the comment rough, but retarded. Other than the Sherk vs. Mayweather incident, the only reason it came up was because both are hobbies of DW. However, I doubt that it would’ve led to a fight at a PPV between the two. It sounded mostly like hype and chest thumping.
by JAYGK95 on May 7, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sherk/Mayweather thing was a stunt. Mayweather was bashing MMA, and in 2007 the UFC was nowhere near as strong as it is now. The business has progressed to a point where they don’t need these fights. The sport is enough with the stars they have.
by Michael Rome on May 7, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also knew it wasn’t going to happen, White challenging Mayweather to fight Sherk was the sport equivalent of a “your momma” joke.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, I don’t remember Dana ever saying he would hold Sherk-Mayweather on a UFC event.
He said “Sean will fight you anytime you want”, not “I’ll promote a fight between you and Sean”.
by Steve4192 on May 7, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://mmamania.com/2007/04/19/dana-white-calls-floyd-mayweathers-bluff/
lol at you guys acting like only dana is capable of bluffing for attention too.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know both sides were bluffing for attention, that was the point. It wasn’t ever a real challenge from either side it was just trash talking.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im talking roy jones right now. roy aint fighting anyone in a cage ever. if dana actually called him in for a meeting hed ask for 250 percent of PPV buy money and a rocketship to jupiter. you know what happened though? lots of articles about roy jones this morning.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It because he agreed to the fight and then White said no, otherwise there wouldn’t be this much talk about it. Honestly I agree that it probably would of never happened even if White said yes (and for all we know they have already had talks about it). I think White would sign Jones if he was serious about fighting MMA as a career and I also think that even getting him in a cage for one fight was a real stretch to start with.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he agreed to the concept of fighting in the cage…supposedly. for how much? with what rules? no one has any idea. roy isnt serious. everyone then starts talking about how he could go to strikeforce and you know what? that wont happen either because beating nick diaz doesnt do anything for roy unless they produce a whole lot of money. all over what?
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I agree with all of that but that doesn’t change the fact that the reason there are so many people talking about it today is that he agreed to fight a MMA fight against Anderson SIlva. Whether he was deadly serious or not doesn’t change the fact that obviously him saying yes is going to generate discussion.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats the point i’m making. people need to learn from boxing folks to not get riled up every time roy talks. virtually nothing he ever says is true, and yet theres stories about this everywhere on the mma webworld.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The MMA internet community exist to talk about the sport, damn near every topic is going to get discussion, particularly on days when nothing else important is going on. Getting riled up about silly crap and talking about it on the internet is what we do.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People get riled up whenever Dana White says something, not RJJ.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anytime a boxer says something about mma it starts a 200 post thread on sherdog, the ug, and here. look at this!
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherdog and the UG maybe, but all they really care about is trolling and arguing.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every article lately has been a gay love letter to Dana White
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on May 7, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree on a few points
First of all, I don’t believe Dana White has ever had in mind what’s best for MMA. He only cares about what’s best for UFC. He’s a company man through and through. He mocks the abilities of fighters outside of his promotion, like Fedor and Arona. He even mocks fighters that have left his promotion – like Tim Sylvia. His promotion of UFC has had a side effect of increasing the popularity of MMA in general, but Dana is out to stomp out any kind of direct competition to UFC, even if it’s in Japan. Is that really furthering the sport?
What’s more, I believe that his usefulness as an ambassador for the sport is reaching an end. As MMA and UFC becomes more mainstream, people are starting to take notice of Dana and his crude behavior, and frankly, he’s just far too crass to be the face of MMA. This is my favorite sport and I don’t much like having him represent me as an MMA fan. He may be a nice as hell guy behind the camera for all I know, and I would like to believe that’s true, but I don’t like what I see of him in public. He needs to tone it down a bit.
Also, I don’t think Dana has a problem with “freak show” fights, although he likes to pretend he does. Not having Silva fight Roy Jones is more about the possibility of Silva losing the fight and his dubious pound for pound best status. Dana has spoken out against frauds and freak shows like Kimbo Slice, but how quickly he forgets that he once had Sean Gannon, who beat Kimbo in a street fight, actually fight in UFC. It was an embarrassment. He got destroyed. If that’s not a freakshow, I don’t know what is.
And then there’s the idea of MMA being an actual sport. UFC matchmaking, as far as I’m concerned, is keeping MMA in the realm of the pseudo-sport. Instead of giving the legitimate contenders their chance at a belt, matches are made on who will make the most money on a PPV. With that in mind, I view these so-called superfights between GSP and Penn, Silva-Griffin, as a waste of time and freak show in and of themselves. As one other comment said, it’s stunts the growth of the divisions involved in these cross-weight fights. It holds back the legitimacy of the sport.
Tha’s just my opinion. I know others will disagree, but I believe a lot of people see it the way I do.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
People need to stop with the “ufc’’s matchmaking makes it not a sport bullshit.”
Can the Yankees and Red Sox ever play in the world series? No. Why? Because they are in the same division so they can play each other 28 times a year, and why is that, because of ratings. Why are the cowboys in the NFC East? Why do they not pick what the Sunday night game is for Baseball until the middle of the week? Why did the NFL adapt flex scheduling and how do they decide who gets to play on Monday night. Why do the Cowboys get a home game every Thanksgiving? Why did Super Bowl I happen? Why do interleague play and the DH exist? Why did hockey change the rules recently to increase scoring? Why don’t they ever call traveling in the NBA?
The answer to all of those questions is ratings. Just because the UFC doesn’t have a “schedule” and everyone knows that it’s only a few people making the decisions, doesn’t mean the fact that they make decisions for ratings any less of a sport. Every sport does it. If you’re going to to say the UFC isn’t a sport for that reason, there aren’t going to be very many sports left.
by Phildo on May 7, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. Every sport is all about ratings and making money first.
by mattman73 on May 7, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not sure i get what your trying to say. so because super bowl 1 happened that means that the ufc is above anything a critic says? im pretty sure the super bowl wasnt put together at a whim based on the two teams who sold the most tickets in the afl and nfl.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but it was made to make money, not because those were the 2 best football teams.
I’m not saying they’re above criticism. I’m saying that if you use the UFC’s matchmaking to say that it isn’t a sport, you’re going to have a very hard time finding any “sports” because every major sports organization makes tons of decisions based on ratings, just like the UFC does.
Feel free to criticize, but don’t use the “it’s not a sport” line, unless you’re ready to say that MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, PGA, aren’t sports. And if you’re going to say that, what’s the point?
by Phildo on May 7, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whether or not a driving factor to them happening was money doesnt mean that there isnt some sort of sporting structure there. the cowboys being the east may be to sell tickets but in the end they dont get an automatic bid to the playoffs. mma doesnt have any such structure. things happen at the whim of a couple dudes sitting in various offices all over the world.
now, is the ufc itself a sport? no, not any more than don king is boxing. lets not talk stupid here. that professional sports are powered by money is in the name. that doesnt mean that you cant call a spade a spade and honestly call a lot of these events “spectacles”. its pretty obvious to anyone that theres a difference as to the competitive athletic significance of game 3 of the nba finals to shamrock/ortiz 3 or fedor/korean tumor dude.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just believe it would be more legitimate if fighters were given title shots and good matchups based on their records and not their PPV drawing potential. Just because some people think that Lyoto Machida has a boring fighting style, does that mean that he should be denied for so long in favor of other “sexier” matchups? He has done everything that he could possibly do right to get a shot, but it is very late in coming. Instead more popular fighters get the title shot, like Forrest Griffin. And I like Forrest a lot, but still, come on, he got KO’ed beforehand and Machida is sitting out there undefeated beating a who’s who list of opponents. That’s the point I’m making. It’s fine that you don’t agree. But until a fair matchmaking system is set up, and guys who have outstanding records are given title shots instead of guys who have 1-1 records, I’ll keep calling it a pseudo-sport. Even so, there’s sport or whatever in the world I’d rather watch than MMA…except maybe college women’s volleyball. Yummy.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to say there’s NO sport in the world I’d rather watch than MMA.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lyoto still hadn’t fought any of the other top guys in the division until Tito(questionable on him being a top guy) and Thiago Silva, by comparison Forrest Griffin beat the number one ranked Light Heavyweight fighter in the world at the time before his title shot, he wouldn’t of got it without that Shogun win regardless of his popularity. If anything both of those guys situations point more towards sport than booking for PPV buys, I mean did Machida deserve a title shot for beating Heath and Hoger and Nakamura? I love Machida but I can’t really see where he was denied a deserved title shot for that long of a time looking at the competition he has faced in the UFC. Just because the UFC booking doesn’t match with your personal fan booking doesn’t mean that the UFC is wrong or not a sport.
by who me on May 7, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“even mocks fighters that have left his promotion – like Tim Sylvia.”
- The same Tim Sylvia that is soon to be fighting Ray Mercer?
“Dana is out to stomp out any kind of direct competition to UFC, even if it’s in Japan. Is that really furthering the sport?”
- Is the NFL giving out seed money to help new professional football leagues sprout? Gasp! They aren’t partners with the new football league that isn’t trying to be it’s direct competitor? The NFL is growing the sport by working to expand its reach in new markets like Europe, China, and Mexico. The same goes for the UFC.
“how quickly he forgets that he once had Sean Gannon, who beat Kimbo in a street fight”
- He didn’t have Kimbo, he had the man who beat Kimbo which at least makes a slight bit more sense. HW was just not (is still not) a deep class.
“It was an embarrassment. He got destroyed. If that’s not a freakshow, I don’t know what is.”
- A series of 80+ pound mismatches. Cartoon characters fighting. This would be like the UFC putting a Power Ranger suit on Josh Koscheck and making him fight a more popular version of Justin McCully.
“having Silva fight Roy Jones is more about the possibility of Silva losing the fight and his dubious pound for pound best status.”
- I’m sure he is extremely worried about Anderson Silva losing to Roy Jones in an MMA match.
“With that in mind, I view these so-called superfights between GSP and Penn, Silva-Griffin, as a waste of time and freak show in and of themselves.”
- You set a low bar for freakshow seeing how GSP-Penn I had already happened (and was competitive). Anderson weighs 215 lbs normally, why can’t he fight at 205? And what are your thoughts on Shamrock/Diaz at 180 lbs? There isn’t even a belt they can work towards!
by bigweeze on May 7, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can mock Sylvia for fighting Mercer, but don’t you think it’s a bit hypocritical for Dana to mock his former two-time champ? It’s classless. That’s the whole point. He’s the face of a sport and a company. Have a little class.
And of course Dana wants to wipe out the competition, but my whole point on that was that people say Dana is all about growing the sport, and I said he’s not about MMA, he’s about UFC. He’s growing a brand. And there are way too many top flight fighters in the world for Dana to employ. If he cares about the sport so much, why does he want those fighters out of work by having no organization to fight for when he eliminates the competition. I support the fighters, not organizations.
So basically you approve of him having Sean Gannon fight. You like circus matches then.
You say I set a low bar for freak shows with Silva vs GSP, but what about all these guys out there working hard to get their title shots or to at least move up the ladder? While these crossover matches are happening, good fighters are spinning their wheels. I don’t see it as I set the bar low. If anything, I expect a high standard out of UFC. A better standard than what it has. Especially considering that PPV cost as much as they do and they’re on once sometimes twice a month. You obviously think I’m asking too much.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone mocked Tim Sylvia, lets not act like Dana was saying anything that all sorts of people had been saying about him for years.
Dana doesn’t want to wipe out the other MMA organizations, heck he has said that they need the other orgs, Dana goes after the “competition”, he wants to be the number one MMA org and he is very vocal about organizations he doesn’t think are good for the sport. He talks highly about Scott Coker with Strikeforce and the whole bit about them buying Pride just to kill it was just fan opinion that didn’t really make a lot of sense. Heck when you get down to it it’s been as much crappy promotions dying because of their own mistakes as Dana killing the competition.
Gannon fought for the UFC once in 2005, lost and got cut and that was the end of the story.
GSP vs Penn was a rematch of a very competitive fight and both guys have held the welterweight belt, that’s about as far away from a freak show as you can get. Anderson Silva vs GSP is only going to happen because fans want it so badly, not sure what is wrong with the UFC occasionally giving the fans what they want? Yes it sucks that the lightweight belt isn’t defended more often but lets not act like that is the norm, historically belts have been defended two or three times a year and that still is the case in the other divisions sometimes things get pushed back and not everyone can get a immediate title shot but it’s not like the belts aren’t being defended. Heck most fighters only fight three times a year it’s hard to ask for a belt to be defended more than that.
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not concerned about MMA fans mocking Tim Sylvia. He brings a lot of that on himself. What I’m saying is that it’s not cool, in my opinion, for Dana White to do it. I think he should have more class than that. I already said that like twice I think.
And I know that Dana White doesn’t mind leaving the smaller orgs out there intact, but again, my concern is for the higher paid fighters who are not with UFC to have a place to fight, and earn the money they’re used to earning so they can afford to keep training at the level to which they have been training, keep up their abilities to a top level and still fight top level competition. UFC does not have enough room on it’s roster as things are to have every top level fighter on their payroll. I want the Fedors, Arlovskis, and Josh Barnett’s of the world to have a place to fight top competition when UFC doesn’t want them anymore, or they don’t want to fight for UFC. If it wasn’t for the much-hated Affliction, and some other orgs, a lot of fighters would be sitting on the sidelines.
And I still think Gannon was only signed because he fought Kimbo. I still think it was a circus match. He was totally outmatched in that fight.
As for the GSP-Penn 2, I can see why one would think that was a legit matchup, but I’m also just tired of seeing rematches. There are plenty of people out there to fight. I would’ve rather seen GSP go against Anderson Silva already than have GSP-Penn part 2.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gannon was given a fight with a journeyman. He lost and was booted. Why is that a circus match?
Growing the UFC and growing MMA is not mutually exclusive. Without the UFC, do you believe MMA would be as popular as it is now? There are numerous smaller shows all over the country. Sure, there are no strong competitor to the UFC, but they have paved the ways for small promotions to exist. You’re thinking to grand of things. The majority of businesses are mom and pop stores not mega corporations.
by cyph on May 7, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because gannon doesnt belong in the ufc at all? i mean if they gave dennis rodman a fight with scott junk would that be a legitimate fight?
i think his point is less that they stop “mom and pops” and more than that the ufc is willing to cloud a division with undeserving champions for their own benefit over that of mmas
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which undeserving champions are you talking about?
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you think either brock lesnar or frank mir are the real heavyweight champions?
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well they both beat the guy who had the belt and by definition when they unify this belt that will make one of them the real UFC heavyweight champion. I’m not sure sure how beating Randy Couture and Big Nog wasn’t legitimate?
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you didn’t think that Randy Couture or Big Nog were legitimate UFC heavyweight champions? Seriously?
by who me on May 7, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
was noguiera the legitimate best heavyweight on the planet? did he have any actual claim to that?
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the UFC heavyweight belt, if this is just a big “Fedor is god” arguement then that is silly.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dana is all about growing the sport, and I said he’s not about MMA, he’s about UFC.
sometimes what is good for the sport is what is good for dana. sometimes it isnt. dana is primarily interested in himself. you and i know that. no reason to sit here and argue that anything the ufc does is for the common good
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All professional sports are businesses, they exist to make money, the business side and the sport side can not be separated and doing things for the sport side that are bad for the business side are bad for the sport side too in the long run. Lets face it if the sport doesn’t make money then it stops existing on a professional level.
A rising tide raises all ships and there would be no big name MMA in the US with out the UFC laying the groundwork. Strikeforce exist because the UFC pushed the sport to a level of acceptance and popularity that allowed them to get the attention they needed to survive and prosper too. Yes fans don’t agree with everything the UFC does but just because some fans don’t agree doesn’t mean that they are right, fans all have different opinions they all can’t be right.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
youre arguing something completely contrary here. basically what im hearing from you is essentially that whatever the ufc does to get fans to watch is not a freakshow and good by virtue of it being the ufc.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What freakshow? You are acting like having a company that doesn’t include Fedor makes everything you do a freak show and that is what I thought was ridiculous. Your on some kind of absolute rant here that doesn’t fit into reality.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol i named a bunch of fights. meanwhile you defended tank abbott as being potentially a serious contender in 2003. im rollin, dude
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
???? I never said Tank was a serious contender I said that it was still a legitimate fight in 2003 and not some kind of legends freakshow. You are running around in odd circles and I’m not even sure what you are trying to say anymore besides anything that doesn’t include Fedor is a freak show fight which doesn’t make sense?
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lolol so tank wasnt a legit contender but it was a legit fight or test for him to fight FRANK MIR? i get it. the ufc doesnt have freakshows because they are the ufc and the ufc doesnt have freakshows because they are the ufc and….
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Frank Mir a title contender at that point? Not every fighter is in line for a title shot but that doesn’t make their fights illegitimate, it doesn’t matter if that is inside or outside of the UFC. Heck the UFC doesn’t have anything to do with it because it would of been a legitimate fight in any org in 2003. Tank was trying to make a comeback in the sport and Frank Mir was a young up and coming fighter, there were not titles on the line or title shots on the line for that matter it was a guy trying to make a comeback vs a young guy trying to make a name for himself in the sport it happens all the time in all fight sports and no one calls it illigitimate or a freak show.
I’m not defending the UFC I am wondering why you think that older fighters trying to make come backs in their careers automatically makes all their fights illigitimate freak show fights? Do you have some sort of contempt for fighters who have had losing streaks but still want to attempt another run in the sport?
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mir was a legit modern prospect and tank abbott was exposed more than half a decade prior as lacking the skill set to succeed in mma. what conclusion was expected? then they matched him with cabbage because they figured it would be a bloodbath. gimmie a break. he was there to get some buys on behalf of the mouthbreathers who painted ‘we want blood’ on their faces
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being exposed as one diminisonal doesn’t mean that the fighter isn’t a legitimate fighter, are all of Houston Alexander’s fights illigitimate freak show fights? Just because you don’t agree with the matchmaking or that it wasn’t a equal vs equal fight doesn’t mean it was a illigitimate freakshow fight and how do you know why they booked the fights they did?
The brought the guy back in 2003 he lost three fight and the gave him the boot, it happens to all sorts of fighters all the time but no one calls them freak shows.
by who me on May 7, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tank wasnt even good at that dimension by the standards of his own time, much less years later with the progression of the sport. he was there and promoted heavily [look at the UFC 41 poster] because he was a fat slob that talked crap and beat up john matua in 96
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Tank isn’t very good but honestly when has not being very good made a fight illigitimate? When has putting a guy with name recognition on the poster to sell the fight made his fights illigitimate? He came back he couldn’t cut it and they let him go, hell Tank could sell PPVs for the UFC now but they aren’t giving him fights like they did 6 years ago.
by who me on May 7, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not correct. The UFC released Tank because his return was a bust at the box office, not because he lost fights. Of course, after a certain point, those reasons become intertwined.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You said it’s not correct then point out that it’s the same thing? :D
by who me on May 7, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all. Tank didn’t draw. This is why he was released and not brought back. Period.
I’ll concede that part of his declining appeal was due to losing all the time. Your contention was that Tank could sell PPV’s today. Given that wasn’t even true years ago, I don’t intend to concede that point!
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you believe frank mir and brock lesnar have equal claimancy to the true heavyweight championship of the world? above fedor? really?
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the UFC belt. Fedor isn’t in the UFC. Fedor may never be in the UFC, heck it’s questionable whether Fedor even wants to be in the UFC. Fedor is irrelevant to the discussion of theUFC heavyweight belt.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fedor is perfectly relevant to the effect the ufc has on mma as a sport. what do you think cliff was getting at?
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor isn’t in the UFC and they aren’t obligated to cave to his demands or change the way they do business just to get him there, I know that seems to rile people up but that is just how things are, it doesn’t make the UFC champions illigitimate because there is a good fighter outside of the UFC.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good fighter? fedor is the legitimate heavyweight champ of mma. the other guys are imposters. dana doesnt have to do anything sure. but then not everything he does is for the best just because he does it.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He tried to sign Fedor. Fedor’s management said no.
by subo on May 7, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve got some nerve asking that – but since you do, suffice to say I think he’s less concerned with being the best fighter in the world than other things. Give me a guy that wants to be a legend.
by subo on May 7, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it isnt pertient, especially when you consider that someone else paid him millions to fight a two time former ufc heavyweight champ and took the #1 contender in the ufc heavyweight division for fedors second fight with them. that, and there was a concerted effort to get randy couture out of his contract to fight fedor outside the ufc. if attempting to sign fedor in some ceremonial fashion is pertinent than so is all of that.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a bizarre response. He showed he was less concerned with being the best fighter in the world by fighting two former UFC champions and trying to get a fight with two more?
The UFC is the biggest promotion in the world. It’s a problem that they can’t lay claim to the world’s best heavyweight fighter. Even they recognize this as a significant issue that will affect how fans and the media respond to their heavyweight “champions.”
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC offered to make Fedor the most well compensated fighter in the history of the sport, and a first fight title shot. Fedor said no.
The UFC has the best stable of up and coming fighters in every division. Unless Fedor plans on retiring at 35, he’s going to beat Barnett, Overeem and Monson and then have no one left to fight.
Except Arona, who might beat him.
by subo on May 7, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one knows exactly who the best compensated fighters in the history of the sport are, but I have it on good authority that Chuck Liddell is that man, with Yoshida and Ogawa on his tail.
Fedor’s deal would have included a bigger guarantee. That’s not the same as being the most well compensated.
By the way, what would be unusual about retiring at 35? Couture has really skewed perceptions about how long most people can compete at the top level in any physical endeavor.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor is among the least hit guys in the sport. Him retiring after finishing his non-UFC HW tour would be tantamount to dodging the Octagon. But if that’s his goal, then good on him. I’ll watch the guys that want it.
by subo on May 8, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t tell if this trolling or not. Probably. Most of the wear and tear on MMA fighters actually comes from grappling. Fedor is not immune to joint wear and tear and the general affects of aging on the body. Unless he really is a robot.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 8, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
35. Who retires at 35 when the most lucrative contract of their career remains unsigned?
by subo on May 9, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So because you have a man-crush on Fedor everyone else holding a heavyweight belt is a illigitimate champion? If your arguing that Dana White isn’t perfect then yes no human being is perfect but beyond that all this seems to be about is Fedor love.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fedor’s the top heavyweight in the world. undisputed as such. every serious fan knows that. making up belts as you go along (which is what mir has around his waist) makes him as much of a champ as it does whoever wins the super hulk tournament or the bellator title.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t bring the “every serious fan” bullshit here please. Fedro is an incredibly good fighter, but he hasn’t beaten everyone.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just everyone he’s ever fought!
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good comment.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do I always get caught up in these crazy things?
by who me on May 7, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you like explaining things and bringing information to the discussion, and unfortunately some people just want to argue.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what, fedor has to prove himself by fighting a 3-1 ex-wrestler? lololol
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Troll comment I would expect on the UG or Sherdog.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fedor isnt the one who needs to prove anything. all the questions are about brock.
by nigelzackit on May 8, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin, Dos Santos and Velasquez are only going to get better. Oh and Brock.
by subo on May 7, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe. maybe not. they definitely arent the toughest fights for fedor right now. would do nothing for him historically.
by nigelzackit on May 8, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are Fedor’s toughest fights after he annihilates Barnett and Monson/Overeem.
by subo on May 9, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it’s the UFC belt and if you aren’t in the UFC then that’s the end of it. Fedor not being in the UFC doesn’t make their in company belts illegitimate, hell that doesn’t even make sense. For goodness sake that’s how all fight sports work. It’s not a undisputed belt it’s the UFC title belt.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course it does. the sport is mma, ufc is a promotion in that sport, and the real heavyweight champ is fedor. anyone else is a pretender to his crown. those belts have some added meaning compared to like king of the cage or something because the ufc is a big deal but their titles are still straight paper.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And your point is? Nothing you said makes them illegitimate UFC titles. Having multiple title holders in multiple organizations or sanctioning bodies is very common in combat sports, that is the reality of the world. If you want to argue that Fedor is the best heavyweight in the world then I 100% agree with that statement he is the best heavyweight in the world but that doesn’t change the fact that the UFC champion is still the legitimate UFC champion. Do you want to argue that Alistair Overeem is undeserving of the Strikeforce belt or he isn’t the real Strikeforce heavyweight champion just because Fedor exist in the world, that is just silly.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lololol im not stupid. i know theres lots of belts in boxing and kickboxing. and you know what they call those belts? crap. thats that mirs belt is. crap. it should be meaningless to you. it should mean as much as the mfc middleweight title.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The MFC belt tells us who is the best fighter in the MFC at that weight class why does that mean that it is crap?
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the mfc is a regional promotion featuring ultimate fighter losers. their world title means nothing.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It means who is the best in the MFC at that weight class and that is all it is meant to mean.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is nothing, because the MFC is a nothing promotion, certainly not one worthy of a world title.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry buddy, no matter how much you want different, the reality is MMA is UFC for the vast majority of people.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The vast majority of people? Or the vast majority of people in the U.S?
Even granting that point requires you to pretend that the most watched fights in American MMA history were promoted by someone other than the UFC….
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that did wonders for EliteXC. Henderson/Rampage was close in numbers and an infinitely more important fight to MMA. Give me actual champion v actual champion any day of the week.
by subo on May 7, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, i was not going to watch Shamrock/Slice, but I tuned in (as I imagine a good number of people here did) when Petruzelli was announced just to see Kimbo get his ass kicked.
by subo on May 7, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Henderson and Rampage, but there is no way their fight was more “important” than Kimbo’s fight. It was much better, sure. But I don’t think it’s implications were felt quite as strongly throughout the industry.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost as many viewers and a legit LHW reunification match? Come on.
by subo on May 8, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nigel, thank you for expressing my points more clearly. Yes, I believe Gannon was not ready for UFC. He wasn’t nearly good enough to be there. He was only there because he beat Kimbo, and UFC wanted to profit from that. It was a pure circus match, and although I haven’t seen that fight in a very long time (why would I?) I remember it being extremely one sided and Gannon took a bad beating. And he looked bad, sloppy, and out of shape.
And you know, maybe Brock Lesnar could be the best HW and deserves the belt. But I don’t think he deserved a shot. Yes, I know UFC does that all the time, but I disagree with it. I as a fan, thought it more proper to have Couture come back and fight Nog for the belt, and that’s a fight that I’ve been wanting to see for a very long time. Now, as usual for UFC this once great matchup is coming to us past it’s prime. Which has been another failing of Dana’s. Liddell-Shogun and Wandy-Liddell, and other great fights that we have seen and will never see should have happened years ago, but they didn’t. That to me is failing to spread MMA, as many claim Dana is trying to do.
And here’s another thought? If UFC is interested in spreading the sport, then where are the women’s fights? Why didn’t they sign Carano? Surely they could make her an offer she couldn’t refuse, if they wanted to. There are so many female fighters out there just waiting for a fight, and the opportunities are few and far between. If UFC wanted to further the sport, they could do something about that because they are in the best position to do so. But they are not.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are so many female fighters out there just waiting for a fight
And the skill levels of most of these fighters are not even that of Gannon, the so called freak show fight you mentioned earlier. There just aren’t enough women’s fighters of sufficient skill to make competitive divisions. Female MMA is in the 90’s UFC era right now, give it a few years.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if there were more opportunities for them to fight, their skill levels would be higher. They would have a reason to train more often and prepare. Not everybody trains 24/7 when they don’t have a fight coming up. And I’m not so sure that so many of them have poor skills anyway.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not the UFC’s fault. Women’s MMA is still in it’s infancy but that doesn’t mean that it will always be that way or that the UFC are villians for not pushing it.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But UFC could make a difference if they wanted to.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps but that doesn’t mean they have to get involved with it until it is deep enough for them to build talented divisions.
by who me on May 7, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC has moved past the spectacle portion of its lifetime. Places like Strikeforce are willing to do the spectacle fights, which at the moment any drawing female MMA fight is. Once those engender enough attention more women will want to train to fight and the pool of female MMA fighters will get deeper.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Couture wanted to fight Brock Lesnar, no one forced him to take that fight he asked for it. Besides saying that him vs Nog is now past is prime is stupid if you are trying to make a point that it wasn’t past it’s prime 6 months ago because it looks like Nog is years past his prime now.
by who me on May 7, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow thanks for saying my opinion is stupid. So classy. Randy took the belt from Sylvia. Randy left and then Nog won the belt. When Randy came back, he and Nog should have fought for it. Instead, UFC basically just told Nog he wasn’t champ anymore and the belt was up for grabs four ways. And yes, Randy’s long layoff and his age probably made him past his prime. But I don’t believe Nog is past his prime. Everyone loses sometime. Just because someone has a loss it doesn’t mean they’re no good. And neither Randy or Nog are overrated. Your claim that they are overrated is the stupid statement. Both of those guys are world class fighters and they’re both legends. My point was more that now for Nog to fight Randy is a bit less exciting without the belt at stake, and although Randy has gone down hill, when he first came back to fight Lesnar, nobody knew that for sure because the last time we saw him fight he took it to Sylvia.
And I don’t think Randy cared about fighting Lesnar. It was always about money for him. That’s why he left UFC and that’s why he came back.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, foot in mouth, you didn’t call them overrated, the guy below this did. So many conversations going on, but still you did use the word stupid and that’s not cool.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t intending to call you stupid I was just talking about acting like that fight was now somehow past it’s prime now but wasn’t 6 months ago, I apologize if I offended you because that wasn’t at all my intention. Just because there is no longer a belt on the line doesn’t mean that all the sudden now the match is meaningless. Are you all the sudden not interested in the two of them fighting just because it’s not to unify the belt anymore? I’m just as excited about that fight as I ever was, 6 months hasn’t changed that.
Nog was already booked to fight Frank Mir when Randy came back and Randy wanted to fight Brock Lesnar(that was part of what he negotiated in order to come back, Lesnar was the biggest fight in the UFC for him and that is what Randy wanted) the UFC took the extra step to set it up where the two of them would fight if they both won. If Randy had wanted to come back and fight Nog right off it had been offered to him several times but at that point Nog vs Mir was already booked and signed so obviously Randy couldn’t of fought Nog then regardless.
You are basically arguing that the UFC should of changed all their booking at the last minute and kicked Mir out of his already signed fight and forced Randy to take the fight with Nog immediatly and it’s all their fault that didn’t force that to happen. Maybe if randy had come back to the UFC a month earlier maybe it would of been different but at that point it would of been a real mess where as they could easily create this mini-tournament that would make the most people happy.
by who me on May 7, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s ok. It’s all good.
And you’re right, I still do really want to see Nog and Couture go at it, I’m just not AS excited about it as I was, you know?
And I see your point about them not wanting to break up the already booked match between Nog and Mir, but it’s not as if fighters don’t sometimes get replaced at the last second. Mir could have fought somebody else, but still, I understand your point.
Nog vs. Couture should be pretty cool either way. I like both of those guys.
by Cliff Speed on May 7, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the difference between wanting something as a fan and blaming the UFC when they don’t do that. There is nothing wrong wih wishing they’d done Randy vs Nog first but a lot of people act like they somehow wronged the entire sport that they didn’t. The sport is a business and because of that things are going to be done for business reasons, for the UFC it was easier to do what they did than to force fighters to change everything around and rebook events.
by who me on May 7, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“I as a fan, thought it more proper to have Couture come back and fight Nog for the belt, and that’s a fight that I’ve been wanting to see for a very long time.”
- Nog already had a match booked with Frank Mir. Nog would have had his shot at Couture if both of them were actually good enough to fight for the title in the 4 man tournament. Neither of them was even close to winning their match.
You know what is more of a shame than Lesnar/Mir holding the championship belt? It being held by either Couture or Nogueira – both fighters who were exposed as tremendously overrated during their respective periods of inactivity.
by bigweeze on May 7, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont know if couture was necessarly overrated when he first went into inactivity. the problem is that he didn’t fight for a very long time when he was a very old man for a pro fighter. hes not gonna get any better now. hes gonna get worse and fast.
by nigelzackit on May 7, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I thought he was lucky to be the champion to begin with (broke and bloodied GG’s nose with a headbutt). Even if he wasn’t overrated, the “retirement” dragged on for so long but in challenging Fedor, people generally chose to downplay the possibility that he wouldn’t be nearly the same athlete he was a year or two prior.
by bigweeze on May 7, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzaga knee’d his own face.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t rush into the mainstream. It takes multiple generations to be a truly mainstream sport. This idea that it’s disappointing that the UFC isn’t on SportsCenter nightly reflects a misguided notion that if only we tried harder, mainstream journalists would put the sport on par with basketball. Something like that will probably never happen, and if it does, it will only happen because the fans right now raise their kids as fans, and then those kids raise their kids as fans.
MMA will never be on the mainstream until it has a transcendent superstar. As much as we love our sports combat sports will always be a nitch sport until it has someone with the aura of a Ali or Tyson that capitates the avg sports fan.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
GSP in Canada seems to be going that route.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 7, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
French Canadians are excellent fight fans… they love their combat sports.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 7, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way the article was very well written.
Dana first and foremost had always had excellent foresight and I don’t believe he would ever resort to freak show fights. He has made an excellent product from the ground up, it would be foolish to go all wcw and go over the top for some quick money for a fights that will make great money but will kill the growning brand.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 7, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This almost completely ignores the actual history of the sport.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 7, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW!!!!
That was a VERY good artical!!!!!
no joke!!!!
by mma is #1 on May 7, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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