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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Demian Maia Is Not Thales Leites

Demian_maia_medium Dave Meltzer explains Maia's unfortunate predicament:

More than anyone else, Maia ended up the victim of the fallout of the Silva-Leites five-round decision. The dull fight saw the crowd turn to obscenity-based chants, as the challenger gave up trying to win, and the champion was content to take the decision.

Given that Maia, like Leitis, is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu expert, not known for his stand-up, there became two question. First, could UFC sell such a fight to the public after the Leities fight? People could think twice about plucking down $44.95 if they thought they may get a repeat of the last title fight.

The second was, what if it was a similar fight?

"It doesn’t matter what country you are from or your style, everyone is different," said Maia, 31, who felt Leitis lost his confidence during the fight which caused it to turn out as it did. "My style is totally different than his. If I fight Anderson, it won’t be the same fight." "His (Silva) fight with Patrick Cote wasn’t exciting at all," noted Maia. "And that’s with a Canadian striker. It doesn’t matter your style or your country when it comes to having an exciting fight. My personality is to be more aggressive than those two."

The biggest fallacy floating around now is that jiu-jitsu at the elite level generally operates the same across practitioners, so therefore by Anderson Silva shutting down Thales Leites (and other talented grapplers), we can expect more of the same should Silva lock horns with Demian Maia. But this is nothing short of absurd. It'd be foolish to keep promoting the meme that all you need is a talented grappler to take Silva to the floor and make things academic from there, but it also worth noting that particularly at the elite level jiu-jitsu players have their own styles and strengths. It's also worth noting that Demian Maia is the best pure grappler in the UFC.

Unlike Leites, who relies on basic freestyle wrestling techniques (with some limited Judo), Maia is able to bring his sport BJJ game of sophisticated guard pulling and non-linear submissions attempts to MMA. The key in battling Silva for any grappler will be not just off balancing Silva with threats of the takedown, but actually executing the takedown many times. Silva's defensive guard in MMA is underrated and even experienced grapplers will likely need several attempts to make headway. Maia brings a game from sport BJJ where rather than dramatically flopping to guard, Maia uses a sophisticated lever system where the combinations of whizzers, half guard sits and sweeps forces a sport BJJ match in a MMA fight. Rather than trying to master double leg takedowns, Maia prefers to use guard sitting with the immediate threat of sweeps to force opponents into defensive positions in order for Maia to eventually establish a single firm position of control.

Maia further adapts his game by more regularly incorporating classic traps and misdirection in MMA. People seem to think the way to Silva's belt is to pass guard, mount and hit the armbar. But that is telegraphing submissions in the worst way. Maia, instead, uses a lot of sport BJJ fakes to get an unsuspecting opponent to commit to a position or weight balance or attack to then land a submission, sweep or guard pass they never saw coming. His triangle over Ed Herman is a classic example of pretending to give up the pass in order to hit the submission. It's not as if Leites or other practitioners can't do this, but the ease and regularity with which Maia can is noteworthy.

None of this is to say Maia is the perfect opponent for Silva or that Silva won't just blow out Maia in the first round. But it is worth observing that just because two fighters have distinguished backgrounds in jiu-jitsu does not mean that their skill sets and fighting characteristics are identical or that a Maia fight with Silva would be redundant nonsense. I, for one, would be very interested to see what Maia can do against Marquardt and perhaps Silva and I don't expect a replay of the Leites fight. Neither should you.

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Maia is not a victim of anything

he’s fighting Nate which is the fairest middleweight title eliminator possible (save maybe for something involving Okami). Maia is a legit contender but he has yet to prove himself against top competition. With a victory over Nate, even the Silva/Leites debacle won’t deny him a title shot.

Kuwabara Kuwabara

by J. B. Maddox on May 3, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Pretty much

I’ve got Marquardt winning anyway.

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m leaning that way myself.

Kuwabara Kuwabara

by J. B. Maddox on May 3, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Even if Maia wins, it wouldn’t have been at all a foregone conclusion, so its not like this is a dumb match up

by EazyEismydad on May 3, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

None of these intelligent points matter to the ‘casual’ fan.

Even Frank Murr knows that and easily understood why it was Randy C. vs Brock instead of hisself.

Maia IS in fact the unfortunate victim of TL’s blaise fighting style.

by JAYGK95 on May 3, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Um

Brock got Randy because RANDY WANTED BROCK. Something about making over $2 million on the PPV’s.

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, your right.

I realized what I wrote after I posted, my FAIL, but yeah, you got it correct.

by JAYGK95 on May 4, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good on you for owning up

by Derek Suboticki on May 4, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maia's ground game is on a different level than Lietes'

I agree tht Maiawould probably be more agressive with pulling guard and actually forcing silva to fight on the ground. The only problem is that Maia needs some more fight untill he is more marketable. He definently has the ability to beat Anderson (no one is invincible), but its not quite the pay per view draw that Silva/GSP would be.

by Bandaka on May 3, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Excellent analysis. Couldn’t agree more that not all elite BJJ grapplers are the same. It’s like saying all elite strikers are the same. I too am intrigued to see how Maia would do against Silva. I just don’t think the casual fan would know or care enough to see the differences between Maia and Leites to plop down another fifty bucks to see Silva dance and shimmy around for five rounds. People want to see Silva forced to fight, which is what the Forrest fight will bring. However, if Maia beats Nate, it’ll be tough to deny him a title shot. (Personally though, I am pulling for a Nate title shot first).

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on May 3, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Maia more of a name than Leites anyway

I think among the hardcore fans and followers of the sport that Maia has reached a high-point in his marketability and is a much more known name than was Leites. Maia has that mystique factor right now that Cote and Leites didn’t, so I think a fight with Maia and Silva still works. Besides, how will Anderson winning or losing to Forrest make a Maia fight more marketable in the first place?

by Fooshnickens on May 3, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree, Leites is a champion Jiu Jitsu player, but it’s safe to say he wasn’t competing with Maia, Jacare, Garcia, or Roger, when he won those grappling trophy’s. Another good example is Rousimar Palhares, and his bait and switch on Ivan Salaverry.

by bubbafat on May 3, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Nate had his chance and blew it don't waste Silva's last few performances on guys he has already fought.

UFC make GSP/Silva in Montreal! It wouldbe a HUGE sellout. The Canadians now hate Silva with a passsion which would actually give this fight some worthwhileness.

by Bandaka on May 3, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

oops

this is a reply to pud 333’s post sorry

by Bandaka on May 3, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Riots on the streets if GSP loses though. That would spell the end of MMA in Canada I’ll tell ya.

by bubbafat on May 3, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Riots on the streets if GSP wins though. That would spell the end of MMA in Canada I’ll tell ya.

Keep firing Assholes!
Akiyama is the Japanese word for Sexify.

by Ubernoober on May 3, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true.

Win or lose, people will probably break shit. :)

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on May 3, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he had his shot, but Nate is a vastly different fighter than when he fought Silva. I think it would be interesting.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on May 3, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said Luke...

Maia is the one man at 185 that I want to see fight Silva above all others, even post-Leites debacle. Maia took down an Olympic-caliber wrestler in his last fight, set him up, and subbed him like it was nothing (even given Sonnen’s penchant for getting subbed).

Now Maia obviously is going to have major issues in the stand-up, but that’s what makes this fight so intriguing. Maia’s ability to get the fight to the floor in a variety of ways and work for submissions so fluidly vs. Silva’s striking and defensive grappling prowess. Sadly, we may not see this fight for some time, if ever.

by kp the ghost on May 3, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Thats why Silva should just say...

F*ck it! Continue doing these super fights and forget about defending 185 for a while.

by Bandaka on May 3, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny how DW is trying to get Chuck to retire when Chuck clearly has reservations about it. And Anderson Silva, the one he’s having a hard time pleasing right now, would take retirement, from MMA, in a second.

by bubbafat on May 3, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm tired of people feeling sorry for Maia

Can you really argue that it wasn’t a premature title shot anyway. His biggest win was over Chael Sonnen, who, while awesome, is not an elite MW

I believe you should have to beat a top 5 guy in the organization to get a title shot

Nate vs Maia is a much more appropriate match up that leads into his shot if he wins

by EazyEismydad on May 3, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Like Heath Herring?

by Farthammer on May 3, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah Brock getting that shot was a mockery

by EazyEismydad on May 3, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heath Herring wasn’t a top five HW at the time? Even with the win over Kongo?

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ehhh

Maybe. Couture, Mir, Nog…I would have put Gonzaga and Werdum over Herring, at that point in time, as well.

by Farthammer on May 3, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair

At the time, #1 was ‘retired’ and 2 and 3 were scheduled to fight. Putting Brock against Gonzaga after Mir would’ve been kind of mean.

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll give you that

Still doesn’t change the fact that Brock is gonna lose again. I’ll bet you 100 fictional BE dollars.

by Farthammer on May 3, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll take that bet.

http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com

by Tim Burke on May 3, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meant to reply to him. I got Lesnar winning.

http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com

by Tim Burke on May 3, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pssshhhh...

Wise like a fox.

Wait, that doesn’t make sense. What I meant was: You are both on for either $100 (BE currency) each.

by Farthammer on May 3, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Herring hasn’t sniffed the top 5 since 2004.

by smoogy on May 3, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was referring to within the organization. But I’m glad at least you recognize he was top five in the world back then.

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sonnen was a top five MW in the world when Maia beat him. That doesn’t count?

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on May 3, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

No he wasn’t, unless you are referencing something Mir said during a WEC fight.

by Jahbulon on May 3, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh really? Prove me wrong then.

FightMatrix had him as the 5th MW in the world before his fight with Maia.

MMAFighting.com had him as the 5th MW in the world before his fight with Maia, as well.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on May 3, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

On top of that, he was top 5 in the UFC at the time. Maybe even top three considering Leites was behind Sonnen in some ratings.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on May 3, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

sonnnen isn’t and hasn’t ever been a top anything

by yngjzy on May 3, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Says …. ?

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on May 3, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I stand corrected.

You’ve proven that Sonnen use to be a top 5 middleweight in the world, in the same sense that Matt Serra used to be the best welterweight in the world.

by Jahbulon on May 3, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean based on the result of fights rather than our best guess at who is the most talented?

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on May 3, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nate, Henderson, Okami, Bisping, Laites, and possibly Cote should be above Sonnen. Fightmatrix automatically puts you above our most recent victory. Sonnen shot up the charts when he beat Filho at the lowpoint in his career

by EazyEismydad on May 3, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is ridiculous. Picking 2 random sites and saying they had him there doesn’t make him a consensus top 5 guy. Wait, I know this website that does use consensus rankings though! I just can’t think of the name of it…

Anyway, Sonnen was # 12 before the fight, and # 8 in the UFC.

http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com

by Tim Burke on May 3, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are bums on the Internet lazy enough to cobble together other people’s work and call it something new? The balls on those incompetent basta…

Oh, wait.

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If you have a one dimensional striker going up against Silva then it will be an exciting fight. If you have a one dimensional grappler going up against Silva then it would probably be a boring fight to most. That is if Silva continues to play it ultra safe.

by dedstrk316 on May 3, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeh because the one dimensional striker in Cote made for an extremely exciting fight.

by MMAussie on May 3, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sonnen was a top 5 MW? When? And Anderson Silva beat Chris Leben and got a title shot, where was the , " beat the UFC’s 5 top MW’s then?

by bubbafat on May 3, 2009 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Sonnen was a top 5 MW? When?

When he fought Maia.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on May 3, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leban was verging on a title shot with a 5-0 UFC record. He was on a tear through the MW division and if he had won over Silva he would have fought for the title. I remember him saying it in the prefight interviews.

Also, you are assuming I agree with every title shot ever given which is very wrong.

by EazyEismydad on May 3, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the same thing. I’d love to see Maia take on Silva after say two more victories, after the leites match I was slightly concerned, but hopeful that Dana and the UFC brass has the presence of mind to understand that the Leites debacle was a story of personalities and not fighting styles.

by Dooda on May 3, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

But a sure-fire thing would be Bisping. He likes to stand up, he throws lots of punches, he doesn’t have the power to KO Anderson, and he’s never been KO’d before so it has potential. Then again, Spider could completely destroy him in the first I think if he wanted to.

by Dooda on May 3, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Silva/Maia would be another boring fight, but only because of Silva. If Silva is cautious against Leites then he will not go near Maia. He would just keep his distance with his reach and kicks. However, if Maia beats Marquardt he deserves a shot.

by Zach Krantz on May 3, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Maia might not have an explosive Kos style double-leg, but he is incredible at finishing takedowns.

I’m a huge Maia fan, but I have no problem with him fighting Nate. I’d also like to see Okami get a tough test before he gets a title shot.

by Jahbulon on May 3, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

His takedowns are more like ’you’re coming with me’ as opposed to ’you’re going there’.

by Derek Suboticki on May 3, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maia just wants to give you a hug.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on May 3, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

And choke you till your lifeless, but other than that, he’s harmless. ;)

by Kaleb Kelchner on May 3, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly, Maia likes that BJJ lets you end the fight without hurting the opponent much.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on May 4, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Has there ever been this much talk about what fighter a champion should fight in order to look good? Absolutely ridiculous. No one is charging in against Silva anymore so all of his fights will suck regardless because he no longer has the will to fight. Griffin said in the quotes of the week he wouldn’t charge in against Silva. Does that mean he is an unacceptable candidate to fight Silva? Will it be Forrest’s fault that the fight is a snoozer because he is as committed to not making the first move as Silva? No one owes Silva a chin on a platter and if Silva wants to be purely a counterpuncher than all of his fights will be as uninspiring as his last two. Also, Silva won’t be defending a championship in this fight so the excuse that it is Forrest job to bring the fight to Silva because Silva is defending is completely moot. The one thing I am glad about is that Silva is proving that pure counterpunchers are bad for the sport.

by Dropkick434 on May 3, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Your overlooking one thing, Silva dosen’t have a title to lose in this Griffin fight, we’ll likely see a different Anderson because he has nothing to lose in this weightclass.

by Kaleb Kelchner on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes but he has everything to lose on reputation. Right now he is the invincible Anderson Silva and if you listen to Dana White, he’s the best fighter that ever lived. A loss to Griffin changes all of that whether you like it or not. He’s not unbeatable anymore, even though it will be against a much bigger fighter, he’ll have lost that aura. This is a dangerous fight for Silva, imo, and a can’t lose for Griffin.

by Chadsac on May 4, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

While Maia is different than Leites on the ground. It’s Anderson Silva’s unwillingness to go and stay on the ground with Leites that makes me think a fight with Maia would be eerily similar. If Maia did execute a takedown or pull guard…if Silva has the same mentality of just standing back up…it’ll be the same fight.

Regardless, Maia will have his hands full with Marquardt and there may never be a Maia/Silva matchup.

http://www.mmaforreal.com

by Kelvin Hunt on May 3, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

completely agreed. It is on Silva to push the fight with a ground fighter. Hopefully Forrest can score enough on the feet to force aggression from Anderson.

by Zach Krantz on May 3, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

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