Another View on Dana White and Lyoto Machida
by Kid Nate on May 27, 2009 7:12 PM EDT
in MMA News
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A couple of days back our own Michael Rome wrote a post crediting Dana White for sticking with Lyoto Machida even when the haters far outnumbered the fans.
Ivan Trembow makes the counter case, pointing out that a lot of lucky breaks had to come Lyoto's way for Dana to give him the title shot at UFC 98:
Earlier this year, with a UFC record of 6-0 and an MMA record of 14-0, Machida was still passed over for a title shot in favor of Quinton Jackson (even with Jackson’s legal issues), who had won an incredible two fights in a row.
Even when Jackson’s injuries made it clear that he couldn’t fight on the May 23rd card, Machida still wasn’t going to get the next title shot.
It was only because both Jackson and Frank Mir were injured (thus preventing the UFC from delaying Evans’ first title defense until July) that Machida got a title shot before Jackson.
Even then, published reports at the time said that it still would not have happened if Zuffa had been able to convince Georges St. Pierre to move up his title defense against Thiago Alves to May 23.
The only reason they finally gave Machida the title shot when they did, rather than having him fight yet again before getting a title shot and likely against another tough opponent like Thiago Silva, was because all three of these things happened:
1. Quinton Jackson was hurt and couldn't fight on May 23
2. Frank Mir was hurt and couldn't fight on May 23
3. GSP was not willing to move his fight up to May 23
If any two of those things had happened, we’d be looking forward to Evans vs. Jackson in July, and Machida would have yet another tough fight before getting a title shot.
It’s only because all three of those things happened that Evans vs. Machida happened on May 23.
Fightlinker comments:
Still, everything fell into place, probably because Dana and the gang saw the Machida win coming a mile away. For his part, Machida came in and took Rashad Evans out in aggressive fashion. What was looking like it might be a second debacle in as many events turned into an impressive win for the Karate master. And now the UFC is being hailed for ‘pushing’ a fighter they originally had no intentions of giving a title shot to any time soon. Funny how life works out, isn’t it?
Now does anyone want to wonder how bad things have to get before Yushin Okami gets his shot? It’s too bad for him swine flu didn’t turn into the mega-pandemic it was hyped for … that might have done it.
Photo by Arnold Lim, MMA Ring Report
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None of that mentions the fact that Machida was to get the winner of Rashad/Rampage if that fight had gone down.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
All these serendipitous turns just show that the MMA gods wanted Machida to have the belt!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions
Had Machida not been given the opportunity at the title shot against Rashad then he also wouldn’t have been given the opportunity to be on TUF. It was a win win situation for Machida. Now the UFC can really market him to a wider audience just by being on TUF. It is the beginning of the Machida Era just as the Rich Franklin vs Anderson Silva began Silva’s Era. If anyone disagrees that Machida will hold that belt for quite sometime then they need some MMA therapy.
Ivan’s point is on target. Dana had very little faith in having Machida in the main event. Maybe as co-main event with another really strong match up, but Evans vs. Machida or Machida vs. anyone was freaking Zuffa out as a solo main event.
Zuffa deserves credit for buying out his contract when they bought the WFA, but they seemed really hesitant to push another Brazillian star as a champion with limited English speaking capabilities. Call it the ‘Anderson Silva’ effect.
AlwaysRelaxing –
They still don’t have a ton of faith in him, I am not sure if they will give him the TUF coaching spot. At the press conference all Dana said was they had plans for who the coaches would be, and Rampage would definitely would be one of them but they won’t reveal anything until June. And he said that right in front of Machida. Machida just said it would be great to be a coach but ’Dana’s the boss.’
How can you say they don’t have faith in him when the other coaching slot hasn’t been filled. And what if they put Rampage and somebody else in there, and give Machida a title fight instead? Would that be so bad, since all people do is complain about how TUF slows down title defenses?
Either way, his face was plastered over their website after his win. And they have always pushed their champions strong. I have yet to see a real indicator to show me differently.
by AlwaysRelaxing on May 27, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The coaching slot has been filled Dana just wouldn’t announce it at the press conference. Right in front of Machida he said, ’They’ll announce the OTHER coach for TUF in June.’ Everyone at the press conference got the impression that Machida wasn’t going to be the coach.
Rampage has the next title shot Dana confirmed that. They are reluctant to push Machida in a number of ways and continue to be so. At the end of the day, Dana likes to promote ‘killers’ as he puts it. He doesn’t know how to create characters, he really doesn’t know how to tell stories that’s not his strong suit. He claims to be a Bruce Lee fan, but the closest thing to Bruce Lee that he has besides Machida is Anderson Silva and he doesn’t have a clue how to promote Anderson Silva arguably the greatest fighter in the world. He’ll have similar problems dealing with Lyoto’s urine therapy, shit like that. He just isn’t a very creative or innovative guy, in reality he isn’t the greatest as a storyteller. But he genuinely loves MMA and I guess I can live with that over a Don King type or Vince McMahon type that can tell great stories but kind of hate the sport/event they promote.
If Dana didn’t have faith in Machida, then how the heck did the coundown show end up as a Machida love-fest?
Dana’s also been on record saying Machida has the potential to be the best P4P fighter, and that was BEFORE he destroyed Rashad.
If they were worried about him, and once they realized they were stuck with him in a potentially painfully-boring title fight, they hyped him to make him seem more exciting. Consider the marketing given to make Lietes seem like an actual contender.
Dana says whatever is in the best interests of the UFC, so of course he would hype Machida – he also downplays Fedor.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 27, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He started saying that about Machida after he whooped Tito. Before he whooped Tito Dana wasn’t saying so much about Machida. Like he doesn’t bring up that he also bought Heath Herring’s contract from the WFA. For a while, when asked about the WFA buyout, all he would say is they bought the WFA JUST to get Rampage. He would leave out Machida or Herring, he wasn’t sure if he should ‘out’ those investments because at the time he didn’t know if they would make him look bad.
How many title shots was Okami inline for before getting injured? I thought they had at least one guaranteed for him and then he broke his hand or something. How many fights did Jon Fitch have in the UFC before he got his title shot? This is nothing new, whether you term it “building” or “neglecting”. The only people I can think of at the moment who came in and were given title shots quickly were: Big Nog, Hendo, Brock, and Anderson Silva.
Glass always half empty with Ivan
The UFC didn’t want to give Machida the title shot until he proved that he can finish and be exciting. Once he proved it by knocking out Thiago Silva, Dana gave him the shot after Rampage. Let’s face it, Rampage was then a more popular fighter. Machida is still building his reputation with the fans after the Thiago Silva KO. He was not the first option because, pre-UFC 98, he was still an unproven commodity. When most experts expected a five round snooze-fest with Evans, we can see why the UFC did not want to put two counter punchers together. Little did anyone expect that Machida was not a one-trick pony.
Let’s not forget that the UFC tried to market him by putting him on the Countdown show for UFC 70, but he ended up being cut from the broadcast for snoozing through a decision fight with Nakamura. Being cut from the broadcast may have been the catalyst to push him to his run of four exceptional fights in a row. To think that the UFC isn’t trying to push Machida is silly. He just wasn’t ready before he knocked out Silva in spectacular fashion as his reputation as a counter puncher and a boring fighter was still ingrained in most fans. It’s only smart business sense that two counter punchers be the last option for a UFC main event.
No that’s not the case. Dana ‘promised’ the winner of Lyoto vs. Silva would get the title shot after Forrest vs. Rashad. Then Thiago got injured and the fight got delayed. Then the guaranteed title shot turned into getting the title shot ‘after’ Rampage got his title shot after Rampage decked Silva. Then Rampage beat Jardine and Rampage and Rashad had that great trash talking moment in the cage and the UFC tried to put Rampage vs. Rashad together for July but then, as Ivan put it, Mir got injured and said he couldn’t fight in May. GSP wouldn’t fight in May either and finally Rampage turned them down.
Machida was never a ‘one-trick pony’ that wasn’t the concern. The concern was whether he could be dramatic in the ring. Machida could always win by decision or by submission or TKO but even when he dominated people felt he was ‘running’ because they didn’t understand his style.
Lyoto tried hard as hell to finish Nakamura I remember that fight and I remember Shinzo told Lyoto he had to be more exciting. But fucking Nakamura can be tough to finish sometimes.
No one is saying the UFC wasn’t trying to push Machida, they just weren’t trying THAT hard. They want all their investments to succeed for them, but they are very limited in understanding how to promote fighters. Usually the fighters have to show them or flat out tell them how they should be promoted. If it were up to Dana, Hughes would be coming out to the Beastie Boys or something. Anyone remember signing Tank Abbott to a six figure deal (when very few in the UFC had those kinds of deals) then having him fight Frank Mir of all people in his first comeback fight? Or how about bringing in Sean Gannon and having him fight a Div I wrestler? The guy has no idea how to properly build up fighters.
Are you seriously arguing that he UFC doesn’t know hot to market their fighters? How many PPV has Fedor sold? The fact that the UFC suceeded yet Pride folded during an era when they had inferior fighters proved that they know how to market their fighters and their events. They prefer fighters who are charismatic, can speak English, and good looking. You’re the first to claim that the UFC can’t market their fighters. They are where they are today because of their marketing.
It’s also their roster. Everyone that knows anything about MMA knows the vast majority of elite talent exists in the UFC.
by Derek Suboticki on May 27, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems obvious to me
The UFC knew Machida was nearly untouchable, and that meant a long predictable reign of one-sided title fights. Why wouldn’t they want to milk the other big names in contention for the shot first?
Machida with a belt makes the entire “stacked” LHW division (the one that the UFC has put so much money into marketing) irrelevant. They are all now firmly second best.
A. Silva did the same to the middleweight division and now nobody cares about the fights at that weight. Even the MW fighters are jumping ship and trying their hands at other weights.
Rampage beat Jardine, Machida beat Silva
Of course Rampage was going to be offered the title shot first. It’s really, really easy to say Dana was lying when he said Machida would face the winner of Rampage/Rashad (read: Rampage) regardless.
Being contrary just for the sake of being contrary = a big reason I don’t read a lot of ‘big shot’ MMA writers
by Derek Suboticki on May 27, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions
Forgive the rant, I usually ignore Ivan’s idiocy but this is ridiculous.
Rampage was going to get the first shot—alert the faux outrage police! Here’s a guy who won the title from Chuck, beat Dan Henderson, and then “lost” his title in highly controversial fashion. Many people think that fight was a draw, or think Rampage won. Then he comes back and beats two top 10 light heavyweights in a row. What a crime they would give the former champion who lost his title in controversial fashion a rematch!
Here’s a thought for Ivan—originally Rampage-Rashad was going to be at 96 in March, and Machida would have had the winner without facing another opponent. Shit changes all the time in MMA, it’s hilarious that they spend millions turning a guy into a star that couldn’t draw flies to shit a year ago and all people can focus on is the number of weird turns that caused it.
Wanderlei Silva wouldn’t have fought Chuck at UFC 79 if the following things never happened:
—Pride gets involved with shady people.
—The Fertittas take a chance on TUF
—Pride loses its TV slot
—The UFC PPV popularity takes off in America
—Chuck loses his title after Wand loses his
—The UFC buys Pride
—The UFC has enough money to pay for Wanderlei Silva
—a 10.0 earthquake in Las Vegas doesn’t happen the day of the show
This is a crazy sport. Lots of shit changes to make things happen. It’s only an argument for outrage when people want to spin things. There are any number of major events that would have never happened but for injuries or other weird turns of events. If none of those count for anything, there’s very little left. I suppose Ivan’s just pissed because one of his favorite whine topics is gone.
by Michael Rome on May 27, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 14 recs
Rec’d for the earthquake line – how lucky we’ve been that any fight ever happened ever.
Giving Dana credit for anything is just anathema to some people.
by Derek Suboticki on May 27, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, I don’t really understand all of the outrage over the timing of the Machida title shot.
Forrest beating Shogun earned him a title shot. Rampage being a former champion and beating Wandy and Jardine earned him a title shot. Rashad earned the title shot by beating Chuck.
Machida’s a great fighter, and his undefeated record is awesome, but to act like it was some travesty of justice that he had to wait for Rashad and Forrest, and was supposed to wait for Rampage to get his shot is ridiculous.
rec'd
Claiming that there is anything wrong with Rampage getting a title shot before Machdia is intellectually dishonest. There is a ton of precedent for champions getting a shot at regaining their title after two wins.
If Rampage had gotten it first............
Ivan would have bitched about Lyoto deserving it just so he could say something negative.
Ivan’s idiocy? What did he say that was so idiotic? I didnt read any negative comments in his post or anything. It was just a commentary on some of the things that took place in order for Machida to be where he is now. I didnt sense any unwarranted criticism or outrage in his words, merely commentary. Considering he has never lost a round, it is pretty amazing that he didnt get a title shot sooner. I understand he wasnt as marketable as guys like Rampage and Chuck, but still, going 6-0 in the UFC and never dropping a round before getting a title shot is pretty unique. Its very unusual when you consider he was 8-0 coming into the UFC with wins over guys like Bonnar and Franklin.
And your rundown of events that took place to enable the UFC 79 bout, whilst mildly humerous, are largely off the mark because the 3 occurances Ivan was speaking of were all related to the ability of 3 fighters to participate at the one event. Rampage was injured, Mir was injured and GSP wouldnt budge. I found that noteworthy. I dont fault the UFC for looking to those fights before Machida, he wasnt as marketbale but as Ivan concluded in an apparent positive tone “It’s kind of crazy to think that such an historic night would not have even happened if not for all of those things happening at the same time.”
If you find the series of events that led to this outcome trivial, thats fine, but I dont see why you needed to have a go at Ivan when it didnt appear that he was off the mark at all. I enjoyed reading his post.
Ivan has something negative to say
What a shock….
-note extreme sarcasm
Dana Took Very Few Risks On Machida
It is hard to say Dana was pushing Lyoto all along when the biggest name he fought before Rashad was a guy that Dana wanted to discredit and send out w/a loss. Of course, Dana was happy he beat Tito. He also got behind him when he KO’d Silva but there was still very little risk involved in making that fight(not to mention Silva was tailor made for Machida to KO).
The post by Trembow illustrates well the various misfortunes that led to Machida’s first shot at ANY fighter that both 1) had name value and 2) Dana wanted to keep around.
Prior to the Silva fight, Dana HAD to be concerned that Machida would pick off all of his popular fighters one by one, get his hands on the belt and defend it w/decision after decision victory. The “Just Bleed” crowd would have none of that!
Is it coincidence that Jardine gets Bonnar, Griffin, Chuck , Wand, Vera and Page while Machida gets Tito on his way out and a bunch of fighters that casual fans don’t even know? This isn’t conspiracy, its reality. I DO give Dana credit for playing all his cards perfectly on this one…even if he thought he was holding a Joker that turned into an Ace.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on May 27, 2009 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
Machida...
was given fights that should have gotten him acclimated, as well as challenging him against solid competition, yet not mind-blowing prospects… Soko was super-hyped and they gave him that match…., Tito is one of, if not the BIGGEST draw in UFC history who was on his way out, and Dana used Tito to get Machida over with the fans…. Then he made Machida co-main event in Penn vs. St. Pierre 2 against another unbeaten Brazilian…
I don’t see why so many feel like Machida was entitled to anything anyways…. The gradual process of him becoming a star is more solid, than an overnight sensation type of following ala Houston Alexander… Everyone gets upset when the UFC gives new fighters tough matches too soon, but when they take a steady approach at it, and allow a fighter to build a following they’re also at fault.
I’m a huge Machida fan and I feel like I was routing for him even while everyone was hating on him. That said, I totally understand the desire to have Page and Evans. Two huge marketable personalities with proven talent and are easily top 5. Dana knew that Machida’s time would come, there’s nothing wrong with trying to squeeze that one in first.
Sometimes the UFC has to straddle the line between the fights that they want to happen and the fights that deserve to happen. I’d say they’ve done a pretty good job of that, with the only exception being Brock Lesnar’s title shot. Machida is a good example of the fact that no matter what hand you get dealt, if you perform well and win, you’ll get what you deserve.
by Dooda on May 27, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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