The Official History of the UFC
Now there's no such thing as yet, but between the ongoing speculation about who will be the next two fighters in the UFC Hall of Fame and Spike TV's online ballot for the Ultimate 100 UFC fights we can get a pretty clear view of how Zuffa views their history.
Personally I understand why Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock have less than zero chance of being recognized but I really hate it.
Both men have certainly earned their share of detractors but I think the case they made inside the cage is hard to argue with. Both Frank and Tito won five straight title fights and were the only stars the UFC had in a very very dark period.
Not to mention that Shamrock's title run basically swept his division clean of top opponents back-to-back-to-back and featured decisive wins in every possible fashion -- armbar, KO by slam, kneebar, and two beatdowns that made the other guy tap.
Plus Tito was the first fighter to really show what cutting weight can do and his wins over Jerry Bohlander, Guy Mezger and loss to Frank (in a fight that made it clear Tito would likely win any rematch) virtually ran the Lion's Den out of the UFC. Not to mention his dominant win over Wanderlei Silva that gave the UFC bragging rights over PRIDE for several years.
Now as far as the Ultimate 100 ballot, it really is telling as to how Zuffa sees the history of the UFC. Richard has compiled a list of all the fights nominated and its in the full entry. He's also got a list of the 39 most nominated fighters.
I haven't had time to do a complete analysis, but its pretty telling that Jonathan Goulet is featured in 3 fights on the list and former champions Frank Shamrock and Maurice Smith clock in for a combined 0.
Early champs Don Frye and Mark Coleman get short-shrift as well with a combined two fights.
I'm sorry, but any one who was paying attention knows that Frank Shamrock's defeat of Tito Ortiz at UFC 22 was one of the all-time greatest fights in UFC history. Not only did it pit a four-time champion defending his belt against the absolute no doubt #1 contender, it was also the rare match where the challenger was the favorite. Bigger, stronger, seemingly unstoppable, Tito was coming into the fight having utterly demolished two of Frank Shamrock's former Lion's Den teammates. Frank had to use stamina, excellent defense and guile to survive long enough to batter out an exhausted Tito in the fourth round.
And don't get me started on Maurice Smith vs Mark Coleman at UFC 14. The first time a kickboxer learned enough ground defense to survive a groundNpound assault, get back to his feet and win the fight. Read my full write up on that fight here: Coleman Gets His Kicks.
There's also no Mark Coleman vs Don Frye from UFC 10, possibly the most brutal passing of the torch from one champ to another ever in MMA. Nor does Don Frye's war with Gary Goodridge at UFC 8 make the list. Nor Royce Gracie's comeback win against Dan Severn at UFC 4. And so on and so forth.
Clearly the UFC has its own official history and that's fine, its just not very accurate or true to the sport.
Here's the complete list of fights up for voting in the Ultimate 100:
(thanks to Richard for compiling the stats!)
| A | B | C | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Sam Stout | vs. | Matt Wiman |
| 2 | Martin Kampmann | vs. | Carlos Condit |
| 3 | Quinton Jackson | vs. | Keith Jardine |
| 4 | Diego Sanchez | vs. | Joe Stevenson |
| 5 | Josh Neer | vs. | Mac Danzig |
| 6 | Clay Guida | vs. | Nate Diaz |
| 7 | Georges St. Pierre | vs. | B.J. Penn |
| 8 | Marcus Davis | vs. | Chris Lytle |
| 9 | Rashad Evans | vs. | Forrest Griffin |
| 10 | Quinton Jackson (2) | vs. | Wanderlei Silva |
| 11 | Frank Mir | vs. | Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira |
| 12 | Junie Browning | vs. | Dave Kaplan |
| 13 | Jim Miller | vs. | Matt Wiman (2) |
| 14 | Josh Koscheck | vs. | Yoshiyuki Yoshida |
| 15 | Ben Saunders | vs. | Brandon Wolff |
| 16 | Aaron Riley | vs. | Jorge Gurgel |
| 17 | Sean Sherk | vs. | Tyson Griffin |
| 18 | Junior dos Santos | vs. | Fabricio Werdum |
| 19 | Chris Lytle (2) | vs. | Paul Taylor |
| 20 | Alessio Sakara | vs. | Joe Vedepo |
| 21 | Nate Diaz (2) | vs. | Josh Neer (2) |
| 22 | Kurt Pellegrino | vs. | Thiago Tavares |
| 23 | Rashad Evans (2) | vs. | Chuck Liddell |
| 24 | Rob Emerson | vs. | Manny Gamburyan |
| 25 | Georges St. Pierre (2) | vs. | Jon Fitch |
| 26 | Frankie Edgar | vs. | Hermes Franca |
| 27 | Rory Markham | vs. | Brodie Farber |
| 28 | Anderson Silva | vs. | James Irvin |
| 29 | Forrest Griffin (2) | vs. | Quinton Jackson (3) |
| 30 | Josch Koscheck (2) | vs. | Chris Lytle (3) |
| 31 | Dustin Hazelett | vs. | Josh Burkman |
| 32 | Matt Wiman (3) | vs. | Thiago Tavares (2) |
| 33 | Kevin Burns | vs. | Roan Carneiro |
| 34 | Thiago Alves | vs. | Matt Hughes |
| 35 | Fabricio Werdum (2) | vs. | Brandon Vera |
| 36 | Goran Reljic | vs. | Wilson Gouveia |
| 37 | Wanderlei Silva (2) | vs. | Keith Jardine (2) |
| 38 | B.J. Penn (2) | vs. | Sean Sherk (2) |
| 39 | Lyoto Machida | vs. | Tito Ortiz |
| 40 | Jonathan Goulet | vs. | Kuniyoshi Hironaka |
| 41 | Georges St. Pierre (3) | vs. | Matt Serra |
| 42 | James Irvin (2) | vs. | Houston Alexander |
| 43 | Nate Diaz (3) | vs. | Kurt Pellegrino (2) |
| 44 | Kenny Florian | vs. | Joe Lauzon |
| 45 | Anderson Silva (2) | vs. | Dan Henderson |
| 46 | Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (2) | vs. | Tim Sylvia |
| 47 | Frank Mir (2) | vs. | Brock Lesnar |
| 48 | Kurt Pellegrino (3) | vs. | Alberto Crane |
| 49 | Paul Kelly | vs. | Paul Taylor (2) |
| 50 | B.J. Penn (3) | vs. | Joe Stevenson (2) |
| 51 | Chuck Liddell (2) | vs. | Wanderlei Silva (3) |
| 52 | Georges St. Pierre (4) | vs. | Matt Hughes (2) |
| 53 | Roger Huerta | vs. | Clay Guida (2) |
| 54 | Jon Koppenhaver | vs. | Jared Rollins |
| 55 | Thiago Alves (2) | vs. | Chris Lytle (4) |
| 56 | Rashad Evans (3) | vs. | Michael Bisping |
| 57 | Matt Grice | vs. | Jason Black |
| 58 | Anderson Silva (3) | vs. | Rich Franklin |
| 59 | Alan Belcher | vs. | Kalib Starnes |
| 60 | Tyson Griffin (2) | vs. | Thiago Tavares (3) |
| 61 | Forrest Griffin (3) | vs. | Mauricio Rua |
| 62 | Keith Jardine (3) | vs. | Chuck Liddell (3) |
| 63 | Luke Cummo | vs. | Edilberto de Oliveira |
| 64 | Gray Maynard | vs. | Joe Veres |
| 65 | Nate Quarry | vs. | Pete Sell |
| 66 | Marcus Davis (2) | vs. | Paul Taylor (3) |
| 67 | Quinton Jackson (4) | vs. | Dan Henderson (2) |
| 68 | Jorge Gurgel (2) | vs. | Diego Saraiva |
| 69 | Gray Maynard (2) | vs. | Rob Emerson (2) |
| 70 | Nate Diaz (4) | vs. | Manny Gamburyan (2) |
| 71 | Tyson Griffin (3) | vs. | Clay Guida (3) |
| 72 | Spencer Fisher | vs. | Sam Stout (2) |
| 73 | Anthony Johnson | vs. | Chad Reiner |
| 74 | Kalib Starnes (2) | vs. | Chris Leben |
| 75 | Quinton Jackson (5) | vs. | Chuck Liddell (4) |
| 76 | Houston Alexander (2) | vs. | Keith Jardine (4) |
| 77 | Gabriel Gonzaga | vs. | Mirko Filipovic |
| 78 | Michael Bisping (2) | vs. | Elvis Sinosic |
| 79 | Alessio Sakara (2) | vs. | Victor Valimaki |
| 80 | Matt Serra (2) | vs. | Georges St. Pierre (5) |
| 81 | Kendall Grove | vs. | Alan Belcher (2) |
| 82 | Kenny Florian (2) | vs. | Dokonjonosuke Mishima |
| 83 | Jason Lambert | vs. | Renato Sobral |
| 84 | Randy Couture | vs. | Tim Sylvia (2) |
| 85 | Frankie Edgar (2) | vs. | Tyson Griffin (4) |
| 86 | Quinton Jackson (6) | vs. | Marvin Eastman |
| 87 | Hermes Franca (2) | vs. | Spencer Fisher (2) |
| 88 | Rashad Evans (4) | vs. | Sean Salmon |
| 89 | Chuck Liddell (5) | vs. | Tito Ortiz (2) |
| 90 | Keith Jardine (5) | vs. | Forrest Griffin (4) |
| 91 | Georges St. Pierre (6) | vs. | Matt Hughes (3) |
| 92 | James Irvin (3) | vs. | Hector Ramirez |
| 93 | Drew McFedries | vs. | Alessio Sakara (3) |
| 94 | Brandon Vera (2) | vs. | Frank Mir (3) |
| 95 | Scott Smith | vs. | Pete Sell (2) |
| 96 | Sean Sherk (3) | vs. | Kenny Florian (3) |
| 97 | Clay Guida (4) | vs. | Justin James |
| 98 | Jason MacDonald | vs. | Ed Herman |
| 99 | Rory Singer | vs. | Josh Haynes |
| 100 | Joe Lauzon (2) | vs. | Jens Pulver |
| 101 | Matt Hughes (4) | vs. | B.J. Penn (4) |
| 102 | Melvin Guillard | vs. | Gabe Ruediger |
| 103 | Hermes Franca (3) | vs. | Jamie Varner |
| 104 | Chuck Liddell (6) | vs. | Renato Sobral (2) |
| 105 | Diego Sanchez (2) | vs. | Karo Parisyan |
| 106 | Joe Stevenson (3) | vs. | Yves Edwards |
| 107 | Jonathan Goulet (2) | vs. | Luke Cummo (2) |
| 108 | Anderson Silva (4) | vs. | Chris Leben (2) |
| 109 | Kendall Grove (2) | vs. | Ed Herman (2) |
| 110 | Matt Hughes (5) | vs. | Royce Gracie |
| 111 | Spencer Fisher (3) | vs. | Matt Wiman (4) |
| 112 | Thiago Alves (3) | vs. | Derrick Noble |
| 113 | Dan Christison | vs. | Brad Imes |
| 114 | Stephan Bonnar | vs. | Keith Jardine (6) |
| 115 | Georges St. Pierre (7) | vs. | B.J. Penn (5) |
| 116 | Sam Stout (3) | vs. | Spencer Fisher (4) |
| 117 | Rich Franklin (2) | vs. | David Loiseau |
| 118 | Chuck Liddell (7) | vs. | Randy Couture (2) |
| 119 | Marcio Cruz | vs. | Frank Mir (4) |
| 120 | Georges St. Pierre (8) | vs. | Sean Sherk (4) |
| 121 | Joe Stevenson (4) | vs. | Luke Cummo (3) |
| 122 | Diego Sanchez (3) | vs. | Nick Diaz |
| 123 | Jonathan Goulet (3) | vs. | Jay Hieron |
| 124 | Randy Couture (3) | vs. | Gabriel Gonzaga (2) |
| 125 | James Irvin (4) | vs. | Terry Martin |
| 126 | Chuck Liddell (8) | vs. | Jeremy Horn |
| 127 | Georges St. Pierre (9) | vs. | Frank Trigg |
| 128 | Randy Couture (4) | vs. | Mike Van Arsdale |
| 129 | Diego Sanchez (4) | vs. | Brian Gassaway |
| 130 | Karo Parisyan (2) | vs. | Matt Serra (3) |
| 131 | Rich Franklin (3) | vs. | Evan Tanner |
| 132 | Chuck Liddell (9) | vs. | Randy Couture (5) |
| 133 | Matt Hughes (6) | vs. | Frank Trigg (2) |
| 134 | Georges St. Pierre (10) | vs. | Jason Miller |
| 135 | Forrest Griffin (5) | vs. | Stephan Bonnar (2) |
| 136 | Rich Franklin (4) | vs. | Ken Shamrock |
| 137 | Matt Hughes (7) | vs. | Georges St. Pierre (11) |
| 138 | Chuck Liddell (10) | vs. | Vernon White |
| 139 | Karo Parisyan (3) | vs. | Nick Diaz (2) |
| 140 | Frank Mir (5) | vs. | Tim Sylvia (3) |
| 141 | Chuck Liddell (11) | vs. | Tito Ortiz (3) |
| 142 | B.J. Penn (6) | vs. | Matt Hughes (8) |
| 143 | Georges St. Pierre (12) | vs. | Karo Parisyan (4) |
| 144 | Evan Tanner (2) | vs. | Phil Baroni |
| 145 | Wesley Correira | vs. | David Abbott |
| 146 | Matt Hughes (9) | vs. | Frank Trigg (3) |
| 147 | Randy Couture (6) | vs. | Tito Ortiz (4) |
| 148 | Randy Couture (7) | vs. | Chuck Liddell (12) |
| 149 | Rich Franklin (5) | vs. | Evan Tanner (3) |
| 150 | Matt Hughes (10) | vs. | Sean Sherk (5) |
| 151 | Tim Sylvia (4) | vs. | Ricco Rodriguez |
| 152 | Frank Mir (6) | vs. | David Abbott (2) |
| 153 | B.J. Penn (7) | vs. | Caol Uno |
| 154 | Robbie Lawler | vs. | Tiki Ghosn |
| 155 | Chuck Liddell (13) | vs. | Renato Sobral (3) |
| 156 | B.J. Penn (8) | vs. | Matt Serra (4) |
| 157 | Matt Hughes (11) | vs. | Carlos Newton |
| 158 | Robbie Lawler (2) | vs. | Aaron Riley (2) |
| 159 | Jens Pulver (2) | vs. | B.J. Penn (9) |
| 160 | B.J. Penn (10) | vs. | Caol Uno (2) |
| 161 | Matt Hughes (12) | vs. | Carlos Newton (2) |
| 162 | Frank Mir (7) | vs. | Roberto Traven |
| 163 | Randy Couture (8) | vs. | Pedro Rizzo |
| 164 | B.J. Penn (11) | vs. | Din Thomas |
| 165 | Chuck Liddell (14) | vs. | Kevin Randleman |
| 166 | Shonie Carter | vs. | Matt Serra (5) |
| 167 | Carlos Newton (3) | vs. | Pat Miletich |
| 168 | Randy Couture (9) | vs. | Pedro Rizzo (2) |
| 169 | Pedro Rizzo (3) | vs. | Josh Barnett |
| 170 | Dennis Hallman | vs. | Matt Hughes (13) |
| 171 | Pete Williams | vs. | Mark Coleman |
| 172 | Mikey Burnett | vs. | Eugenio Tadeu |
| 173 | Randy Couture (10) | vs. | Vitor Belfort |
| 174 | Don Frye | vs. | David Abbott (3) |
| 175 | Royce Gracie (2) | vs. | Kimo Leopoldo |
| 176 | Royce Gracie (3) | vs. | Gerard Gordeau |
| 177 | Royce Gracie (4) | vs. | Ken Shamrock (2) |
And here's the complete list of fighters nominated and number of fights:
| A | B | |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Name | Fights |
| 2 | Chuck Liddell | 14 |
| 3 | Matt Hughes | 13 |
| 4 | Georges St. Pierre | 12 |
| 5 | B.J. Penn | 11 |
| 6 | Randy Couture | 10 |
| 7 | Frank Mir | 7 |
| 8 | Quinton Jackson | 6 |
| 9 | Keith Jardine | 6 |
| 10 | Sean Sherk | 5 |
| 11 | Rich Franklin | 5 |
| 12 | Matt Serra | 5 |
| 13 | Forrest Griffin | 5 |
| 14 | Tyson Griffin | 4 |
| 15 | Tito Ortiz | 4 |
| 16 | Tim Sylvia | 4 |
| 17 | Spencer Fisher | 4 |
| 18 | Royce Gracie | 4 |
| 19 | Rashad Evans | 4 |
| 20 | Nate Diaz | 4 |
| 21 | Matt Wiman | 4 |
| 22 | Karo Parisyan | 4 |
| 23 | Joe Stevenson | 4 |
| 24 | James Irvin | 4 |
| 25 | Diego Sanchez | 4 |
| 26 | Clay Guida | 4 |
| 27 | Chris Lytle | 4 |
| 28 | Anderson Silva | 4 |
| 29 | Wanderlei Silva | 3 |
| 30 | Thiago Tavares | 3 |
| 31 | Thiago Alves | 3 |
| 32 | Sam Stout | 3 |
| 33 | Renato Sobral | 3 |
| 34 | Pedro Rizzo | 3 |
| 35 | Paul Taylor | 3 |
| 36 | Luke Cummo | 3 |
| 37 | Kurt Pellegrino | 3 |
| 38 | Kenny Florian | 3 |
| 39 | Jonathan Goulet | 3 |
0 recs |
84 comments
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Comments
Looks like they just picked fights at random.
by mythbuster on May 11, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd certainly hope so
Its better than thinking that they watched Marcio Cruz vs Frank Mir and really thought that was a great fight.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on May 11, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They definitely got a little too cute with the 100 thing here.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minowa vs. Butterbean crushes half these fights. BLASPHEMY!
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I try to take my shots at Zuffa when I can to maintain some semblance of balance, and this is one of those times. This is dumb.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re just no fun Subo, no fun. You must let out the anger.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I first heard about this, I thought it was a great idea and a chance to really showcase teh history of the UFC. Then when I found out that fights like Junie/Kaplan were on the list and many greats were missing, it really made me sick. Now, after reading this, I can honestly say, I have zero interest and will not be watching.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
by BJJDenver on May 11, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was so excited too and lost all excitement the minute I started reading and found all these fights that were so forgettable. It’s a really cool idea though. I think they are going a little overboard with the 100 theme as mentioned above, but I also can’t help but admire the effort they’re putting into making a big deal of their “100th” UFC event and the push that they’re making towards the mainstream. UFC 100 is the perfect showcase to really introduce a new era of fans, I just hope that maybe they usher in a new intro as well, haha.
by Chadsac on May 11, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, discussed this with a lot of people the other day. The concensus was that it was garbage and Spike doesn’t know what they’re doing, or whoever was putting it together. The great, great fights won’t win either because the casual fanbase is bigger in the younger part of the demographic.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if they were willing to do some non-profit
driven UFC Unleashed episodes to let at least some of these fights be seen. But they only dip into the vaults when they’re pushing something like Royce Gracie vs Matt Hughes.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on May 11, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. I’ve seen some of those Best UFC Knockouts shows that have some of the older fights, but those are rarely on.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC Hall of Fame is a pretty terrible idea.
When it isn’t being controlled by Zuffa to exclude fighters who have a beef with the organization, it is being pressured to add people for emotional reasons not related to their athletic accomplishments. The way its designed now is a mess.
by toxic on May 11, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
See: Mask and Tanner...
if right now the best possible entrant to the HoF is Evan Tanner and Mask…it’s best to shut it down for a few years. Which isn’t to disrespect either but I’d rather see Mask go in as a part of the entire Tapout Crew (I don’t need them represented individually) somewhere down the road. And Tanner was a good fighter in his prime but I just don’t see him being one of the absolute best of the best (or some transcendent personality ala Shamrock) which is what a hall of fame should stand for. Good guy, good fighter is not hall of fame in my book.
But it is what it is. The hall of fame and this list are just promotional tools. There is no meaning to them beyond just that.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A Hall of Fame as a promotional tool? You’re nuts.
I say put Tanner in. ‘Overall effect on the sport, its fans and its fighters’ has to be a criteria for selection.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
to be fair other sports don’t treat it as a promotional tool. There are established, published criteria for induction.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also they tend to HoF for the sport, not a particular league. I mean, Fedor is just automatically out of consideration for the UFC Hof.
I’m not opposed to Tanner being in the HoF. I would just say that maybe we should wait a few years as a general rule, so that people can judge these things more rationally.
But then again, maybe I’m just taking the HoF concept way to seriously.
by toxic on May 11, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is probably my problem also...
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But not for exclusion
Your argument seems to be that Tito should be in on numbers. Well, so should Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Bonds in a few years and so on. Nobody told the voters that they roided and shouldn’t be in – they decided, independently, that those athletes had sullied the organization through their actions. I think Tito’s done that, too.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tito “sullied” the organization by…letting his contract run out?
by nigelzackit on May 11, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking ill...
is not the same thing.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I compare it more to Pete Rose (not that Tito is Pete Rose) – everyone knows he should be in, but he sure as shit ain’t getting in as long as the current commish is in charge.
by subo on May 11, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Rose violated the #1 rule of baseball
(pre-steroids anyway) — No Gambling on Baseball Games.
All Tito has done is bitch about Dana.
No comparison.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on May 11, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of why I added the parenthetical there. (also, Pete Rose may be the best hitter in the history of the game, whereas Tito was a good GnPer)
by subo on May 11, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's different though...
Rose isn’t in because he violated actual established rules.
The UFC HoF is excluding a guy like Frank and Tito because they violated the “rule” that you don’t get to speak ill of the big bad UFC
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tito was the only bright spot in a dark time in the org, is half of the biggest pay per view ever, and was probably one of the greatest LHW’s ever.
by KyleAskine on May 11, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought UFC 92 beat that record. If Tito wants to come out and say ‘I deserve to be in, I want in, I’ll say I’m sorry etc’ a la Rose, then fine. But right now, he’s a cranky free agent that hasn’t fought in over a year (or, let us not forget, finished a guy not named Ken Shamrock since before 9/11 – and that was Elvis Sinosic by cut).
by subo on May 11, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a baseball fan I couldn't let this pass.
Pete Rose was great, but not in the same league as Ted Williams or Babe Ruth as a hitter. The only other guy in the discussion is Barry Bonds- and that’s if you don’t take too much away for steroids (which most people do).
by BilboMcFonzie on May 11, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re not going to tell me Ty Cobb would kick all their asses?
by subo on May 11, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Rose isn’t anywhere near the best hitter in the history of the game.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 11, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know that like, you rate hitters on things other than hits, right? like rbis. slugging percentage. runs produced. on base percentage. stuff like that.
by nigelzackit on May 12, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say the best, but he’s in the pantheon. I think longevity and playing two decades without pitchers completely figuring you out are important.
by subo on May 12, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Rose was a great player, but his counting stats are padded by playing for another five years after he ceased to be even an average player.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 12, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Rose wasn’t the best hitter, he just had the most hits. But I see what you are saying.
by Riney on May 11, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Rose is far, far, far from the best hitter in the game. I’m not sure he was the best hitter in any individual season.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on May 11, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn’t. The closest he came was in 1968.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on May 12, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what effect did tanner have? im being serious here. he learned mma the james thompson way. he never trained anyone. he gambled a lot. he drank a lot. he ended up winning a belt and then losing it immediately. he had some really good fights with phil baroni where he got hit a lot in the face.
by nigelzackit on May 11, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask anyone that ever met the guy about his effect on them. He made MMA a better place.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hackney definitely made mma a better place and trained guys with some success. he punched a dude in the balls and beat up a sumo wrestler. hackney for hof
by nigelzackit on May 11, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it? i mean hackney gave royce a really tough scrap and has had an effect on the sport in terms of rule changes and his trainees, not to mention being an ambassador during the years when no one was watching. tanners effect on the sport 5 years from now will be that dudes will rely on something other than google maps to find water in the desert. forget a decade or more away.
‘making mma a better place’ is the worst criteria imaginable, especially for a alky who used to admit to doing all sorts of awful things on myspace.
by nigelzackit on May 11, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. It’s absurd to compare Evan Tanner to Keith Hackney.
by subo on May 11, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
youre right. hackney had more influence and will continue to for years.
by nigelzackit on May 12, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
time will tell. chances are not even hardcore fans will remember tanner in 30 years.
by nigelzackit on May 12, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They clearly treat it as a promotional tool. Everyone other than Severn who has been inducted to the HOF has fought since.
For this reason I expect to see Chuck go in to build up a comeback fight in a year or so.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on May 11, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean, “has fought for the UFC since”. Seeing as Dan Severn has fought a few times outside the octagon since being inducted.
by bubbafat on May 11, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah true.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on May 11, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chronological order
I’m guessing they wanted fights from each card, or almost every card, so they went back and picked the most worthy fights from a card.
A lot of the more recent picks are random, but I think with honoring careers, you need distance (couple months ago, A-Rod would have been a shoo-in for the Baseball Hall of Fame, for example).
Interestingly, there’s only 9 fights from before UFC 31, then you get four fights from UFC 31, and four from UFC 34, which seems to indicate that this is when the UFC thinks the sport truly reached its current form.
Also, I agree with most of the choices around this period. It’s only when we get into recent history that you start seeing really dumb fights on the list.
But this is a list of the “best 181 fights” and will be whittled down to 100 for public consumption, so hopefully that will eliminate fights like Browning vs. Kaplan.
It does provide great fodder for arguments:
What 5 fights have no business on this list?
Which 5 fights were most overlooked by being left off?
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on May 11, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that those recent fights will get votes as well because people will remember those over some of the epic wars in the past.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s got to be Penn/Hughes 2 for me, great fight. Frank Edgar/Tyson Griffin is one of my all time favourites too. So many great fights over the years. The first fight I ever watched was Jens Pulver vs. BJ Penn 1 on the internet a few years back, that was a great fight too.
They should do one of these polls for Pride, but they probably won’t.
by Hellsing on May 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Only ONE Vitor fight...
another guy who deserves a bit more respect for his prime.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not that he's exactly "over the hill" right now
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His fights were mostly massacres, though.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
but his fights with Chuck and Tito were both pretty good back and forths.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on May 11, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
and there are other guys who they put on the list that were obviously just to get a guy’s name out there. I mean…are any of the Vitor massacres less “good” than Cruz/Mir?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m thinking they said ‘well, we can’t nominate every fight Chuck’s ever had’.
by subo on May 11, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how you could put Browning/Kaplan on there over Tito and Vitor’s fight. I would also replace Irvin/Alexander and Emerson/Gamburyan with Vitor/Wandy and Vitor/Eastman.
by The Legend on May 11, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Smith vs. Pete Sell
The fight that got me into MMA.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on May 11, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Um, once you’ve defended Bob Sapp v 0-0 Guy In Mask, your pretentious elitism carries a lot less weight.
by subo on May 11, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I defended it?
Also, I am not surprised that Smith vs Sell got a lot of newbies into MMA, that was a great fight.
by MMASuPreMaCy on May 11, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was a NYE show, not a pure MMA card.
If you can’t handle that, then Japanese MMA wont miss you.
Sorry.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/12/31/706066/japanese-mma-goodbye-to-al
by subo on May 11, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that statement is true that it was a NYE show and the Japanese tradition is to put on these shows/fights for its fans. I am not sure how I am defending the match, more like explaining that this is Japanese MMA and these fights are a part of i.
by MMASuPreMaCy on May 11, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. You do defend Japanese MMA, of which that fight was a part, right?
by subo on May 11, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL…you should go talk to everyone who can’t wait for DREAM.9 and the Super Hulk Tournament that is coming up. Darn pretentious elitism!!!
by MMASuPreMaCy on May 11, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I can’t wait to watch that tournament, either.
by subo on May 11, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Revisionist history
I am usually a big Zuffa apologist but to select what fights we can actually vote for is appalling. Just because Dana has issues with several past UFC fighters doesn’t erase their contribution to the company (and sport).
"You can teach em' to type, but you can't teach em' to grow tits" - Charlie Wilson
by Legless on May 11, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not opposed to Tanner’s HoF candidacy… but he should be considered on his merits when they’ve already gone through all the candidates before him, and not because of the timing of his death.
With the current list of inductees the UFC has, they still have an opportunity for legitimacy. They just can’t skip over the deserving SEG era guys by jumping the gun on inducting Hughes, Liddell, etc. The next four inductees should be Don Frye (10-1 in UFC), Mo Smith (won a belt, changed MMA), Pat Miletich (long time champion) and Frank Shamrock (ditto)
by smoogy on May 11, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Frank shamrock is should be a definite no question,but i dont think the UFC will induct him while he is fighting for strikeforce,which is now the UFC’s biggest competitor. That and dana is like a baby who knocked his bottle out of the pram when it comes to people not in the ufc or who speak badly of it
by RealIrish on May 11, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Miletich is a lock, WAMMA affiliated or not.
by subo on May 11, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoogy's list
I can get behind that.
But I don’t think that inducting Chuck now would mean they can’t induct Frye later. I think they should put Chuck and Randy in this time, then go back and do some of the SEG guys.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on May 11, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy is already in. If they skip the SEG guys now, I doubt they’ll ever get back to them.
by smoogy on May 11, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I second this. Chuck and Hughes will get in no matter what. I think this is Fryes only chance and Miletich will make it as a trainer too. At one time I think his fighters held 3 belts at once.
Shamrock will get in, he was better than his brother. Mo Smith is the odd man out who I don’t think will make it.
by Riney on May 11, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man...
I forgot Frye’s UFC record.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rampage vs Eastman is on the list? Is that a joke? I guess the UFC are aiming for all the people who only started watching MMA after TUF and are ignoring the people who kept the business running when they had no cash
by StevenGiles on May 11, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Out the first 5 fights listed,rampage and Sanchez fights were not epic of great in any sense there were both pretty forget ful
by RealIrish on May 11, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Something I'd love to see
I have always thought it would be great if a site like Bloody Elbow, Sherdog ect. would start up their own “hall of fame”. Maybe even a collaboration between all of the major MMA news sites and have a set criteria of what a fighter would have to accomplish in order to be inducted. I think it would be a great way to honor fighters in an unbiased fashion.
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on May 11, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there any sort of Martial Arts Hall of Fame out there? If so, would they eventually include the names of the best mixed martial artists along side the likes of Bruce Lee, or Chuck Norris, Benny the Jet etc? Because to me, after seeing what the UFC is building here, I’d really gain some comfort in knowing that the history of this sport will be placed in more objective, impartial and capable hands.
by bubbafat on May 11, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Weaknuts.
That’s all I have to say about this list.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on May 11, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really want Goulet/Hieron to hit the top one hundred. I remember when that fight happened Dana said it was never going to be released for viewing in any form because of the negative impact it would have on the UFC. Allegedly the bloodiest fight in UFC history. I don’t know if it can outblood Haynes/Singer though.
I also hope Grice/Black makes the top one hundred. It would be a shame if it didn’t. Round 2 of that fight was the best round of that year next to the Round 2 of Takaya/Pato.
by ilostmydog on May 12, 2009 1:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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