I'm Glad Dana White's Video Blogs Are Gone
by Luke Thomas on Apr 9, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
in MMA News
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PrintDana White will be doing at least one video blog either leading up to or in Montreal for the 4/18 show. That didn't take long.
I recognize White's video blogs (vlogs) are quite popular and the appeal is obvious. Viewers are not only given access to information and a world that otherwise they never even knew existed, but it's presented to them as a gift or reward for fan loyalty. White, the quintessential MMA fan himself, has a nose and palate for the sort of content hardcore MMA fans thirst for and these blogs deliver. And, naturally, like any sports fan desires, these blogs let the fan or viewer in on the action and bring the sport closer to home. White routinely bashes other sports for creating and maintaining distances between the athletes and the fans, and rightly so. These blogs are part of an effort to not repeat those same mistakes. The content is often interesting, consistently delivered and dazzles with backstage celebrity encounters or demonstrations of wealth and power.
But the true issue is that White trafficks a management style that cultivates loyalty and favoritism. There can be no doubt that if White views you positively, he will act altruistically and use his considerable muscle to assist you. Conversely, if he perceives you as any sort of dissenter or threat, he will likewise use his considerable status and power to wreak havoc. Admittedly, virtually everyone works with a similar balance, but White's world is very much an either/or proposition: either you're with him or you're not. And if you're not, god help you.
The problem with these video blogs is that they are part and parcel of White's loyalty-driven reality and a tool to curry favor for White, his actions and his personal decisions. White should be commended for reaching out to fans at live shows and by trying to offer them more "inside" content than other major sports leagues. But ultimately, their purpose isn't merely entertainment. Burnishing one's image generally speaking is business, so there can be no issue with that. And the vlogs cannot be signled out as the sole contributer to White's overly buddy-buddy relationship with the fans, which itself is not so regrettable. What is problematic, however, is that over time these efforts (and others) cause some of the members of the fanbase to view White as though he is immune to criticism or meaningful evaluation. White has every right to treat UFC's fans as he sees fit, but the vlogs should not be naively viewed as nothing more than a corporate executive working overtime to level the playing field between the fans and the sport.
Fans should be treated well and rewarded for their efforts for supporting the UFC so consistently. And generally speaking, White has done a commendable job of this. But fans should not take it upon themselves nor be looked to for providing safe haven from the rigors and pressure of the mainstream, particularly when what the mainstream is asking for is culpability for brazen homophobic and mysogynistic slurs. Currying favor is fine (and who could expect any different?), but MMA is being done no favors when fans reflexively choose to protect or defend all of White's personal decisions. And when such defense comes at a cost to the entire sport, the closeness of White's borderline friendship with the fans becomes extremely problematic.
Getting rid of the video blogs isn't going to force a techtonic shift. But anything that can help fans more soberly separate White's personal decisions from support for the UFC or MMA is welcome. I am certain others enjoy the vlogs and can view them without any subtle brainwashing effect, but for a sport that still has miles to climb having an appreciative fanbase is extremely helpful; having a discerning fanbase is positively critical.
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They should simply hire a team to do these event build up blogs
Dana could be a guest on a few of them, as well as a variety of fighters and other personalities from behind the scenes.
Have to admit ...
… I was somewhat puzzled at the reaction of some, “Way to go, PC police! Now we get no more Dana Vlogs!” As if that were too high a price to pay to not have to hear that kind of shit. Yes, where oh where will I now get my fix of shock pen humor? I will miss it so much. Anyway, they’re back now, apparently, so I guess everyone can be happy. Until the next time.
As far as management style, I think you hit the nail on the head Luke. Dana definitely hails from the George W. Bush school of leadership. Brook no dissent. Here’s what I think. Now you rephrase it and say it back to me.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 9, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions
These blogs would be fine if Dana could just control his
mouth & make sure he is not embarassing the company. Dana does exactly what the UFC wants him to do. That is making deals in the best interest of the company & if he favors those who cooperate & not the ones who do not, who cares? That is exactly the way the real world works. Generally, those who are not “company guys” end up not doing so well.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Personally, I couldn’t care less about these video blogs and similar products. I don’t really care that much about interviews unless something important. or perhaps funny, is being said. It’s fine if you like this stuff, but I can’t see it as being a huge loss. There are a lot of effective ways that the UFC can present their messages.
In some respects, I think the vlogs take away from White the leader. Being a solid leader doesn’t mean that your most important responsibility is to communicate a message that’s palatable to the majority of people. It’s a hell of a lot more than just that. Dana’s personality overshadows his acumen at times.
Great Story ?
Thus endeth the pontification.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions
Getting rid of the video blogs isn’t going to force a techtonic shift. But anything that can help fans more soberly separate White’s personal decisions from support for the UFC or MMA is welcome. I am certain others enjoy the vlogs and can view them without any subtle brainwashing effect, but for a sport that still has miles to climb having an appreciative fanbase is extremely helpful; having a discerning fanbase is positively critical.
I completely disagree with this way of thinking.
Kuwabara Kuwabara
The issue of whether to blog or not is a tempest in a teapot. Have an editor and a PR person look at them before they are posted. Subject them to the same process press releases are subject to. Taking down the blog is a major crybaby move.
Also, does everyone in the MMA community get a pass on helping the sport become mainstream except Dana? Are we going to start seeing fighters and pundits get called out when they say homophobic or sexist things?
Brock Lesnar
has probably gotten less heat from us than he’s earned with his homophobia. Fightlinker has done a good job of busting Brock’s chops over that, can’t remember if we have or not.
In my mind, the heat should be proportional based on the importance of the figure and the offensiveness of the comments. As one of the biggest stars in the sport, Brock will need to watch himself.
So far Brock has mostly said “I don’t like gay people” more than he’s said “gay people are bad.”
We’ll see if he crosses that line.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
People with the spotlight say stuff that’s controversial all the time. White is more of a representative of the sport than any particular athlete, in my opinion. The crap that NFL players do doesn’t necessarily reflect badly on the NFL though the sum of multiple bad actions is eventually damaging.
What Brock Lesnar or Frank Trigg thinks about sexuality, religion, politics, etc. doesn’t concern me in the least. As long as he’s not actively infringing upon the rights of someone else, I don’t care in the same way I don’t care about most people’s opinions – especially when the person in question isn’t in possession of some unique knowledge or fails to utilize a logical argument.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
And yeah..
I’ll jump a fighter’s shit…but not to the same degree I will an executive like White. The athletes in a sport should be held to a certain level of conduct but that expected level is MUCH higher for an executive. And the reason is simple…for the sport to grow the behavior of the company is more important than the behavior of an athlete. White represents THE COMPANY much more than an individual athlete.
He’s a part owner and president. This is why the standard is higher.
Like I said…yeah, I’ll not be thrilled if a fighter does it. but it’s a different ballgame.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
How about Frank Trigg and Jeff Sherwood? They both regularly say sexist and homophobic things on their radio shows (even said in jest or good fun, it is no less offensive than what Dana said). These are two guys who put themselves out there as spokespeople for the sport. In addition to being a fighter, Trigg has a clothing company and has been all over the television. Sherdog is a company that wants to be the CNN of MMA, in fact, when you type MMA into google, sherdog.com is the very first hit. Sherwood himself is not shy about appearing on mma shows or documentaries. Even the MMA journalists who don’t say it regularly stand by and let it go unchallenged when it is said by fighters and promoters.
I agree...
that I expect Sherwood to behave a bit more…acceptably. But at the same time he is far less the face of the sport that White is. He would like to be, sure…but like to be is a lot different from IS.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you listen to Luke’s last radio show? What is the point of calling out Dana for hurting the sport when every other fighter, promoter, journalist, and pundit is getting a pass on these types of things? That’s not even to mention the Sherdog forum, which is a major source of revenue for the company. How many hits did Dana’s blog get on youtube? How many hits does sherdog.com get a month?
you cannot attack a journalist in the manner that White did. This is not to say you cannot defend yourself and your organization, from what you deem to be a hit job, but you simply cannot act in the manner that White did.
watchkalibrun.com
What?
This attitude that journalists are somehow above attack might have worked when Morrow was alive, but in today’s world, it’s moronic, un-American, and simply odd to say that. Just by their having written something, no matter how petty, ill-conceived, or under-investigated it was, makes it unacceptable to jump on them…sounds to me like you’re very very very proud of your “journalist” status and really want to keep it meaning something.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was the way he attacked her in a personal way. Anyone – writers or bloggers – are deserving of criticism in regard to their arguments. I don’t care for someone using name-calling as tool of debate. It’s not effective, and it doesn’t contribute anything productive.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
Since he wasn’t engaged in a debate with her and was giving his opinion of her, are you saying that people shouldn’t have an opinion? If everyone followed Robert’s Rules of Order, the world would likely be a more dignified place, but that is not going to happen. His opinion of her was harsh. Maybe, just maybe, he really doesn’t like her. It’s not PC to really not like something, so I see your point.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
jesus...
It’s not PC to really not like something, so I see your point.
Because that’s what anyone here has said right? It’s not that turning dislike or hate into a public video of you calling a female journalist a fucking bitch is not acceptable behavior. It’s that not liking something is un-PC.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea,
Obviously you don’t. ….If you detest something, how do you describe it? Surely he should have tempered his OPINION of her a little bit, but should have he just said…I like her about as much as a rectal exam? Would the misogynist accusations have occurred then?
My point was that he REALLY didn’t like her and said it. It is not PC to detest anything, you have to soft-shoe it to keep the “Journalists” and outrage merchants quiet.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No...that's not true nor is it what we've said.
He could have said “I think what she wrote was fucking stupid and absolute bullshit, like every other thing that comes out of her mouth” and I would be fine with it. But attacking her directly as being a “fucking dumb bitch” is absolutely over the line.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Good for you
You’ve managed to get this far in life having never fallen so low as to call someone a bitch.
You must be a pillar of society.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn’t care less about people being PC. I’m damn sure not, but people need to behave themselves. Take out the gender issues for a moment. If you’re running a company that’s based on the general public buying your product, it’s wise not to dress people down with a profanity laced tirade. It’s bad for your business and your sport if you want to expand the two beyond its current state. Besides, it’s bad form. It’s possible not to like someone and refrain from insulting them in the manner in which Dana did to Hunt.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Gender
One word he said somehow makes this a gender issue. It’s the whole PC attitude that is fueling this debate, so you are in fact caring about it.
Without admiting to being a hater of all women myself, I will take the heroic position of admitting that I have indeen myself, used that word before. Sorry.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Again...
You are not Dana. Your position of importance to this company or sport is not exactly the same.
Nor is mine.
Me calling someone a bitch (which I have absolutely done) is far different from the PRESIDENT OF A COMPANY SAYING IT ON A PUBLIC VIDEO.
If you don’t get that then we’re done discussing it here because you’re obviously ignorant to the truth in that statement.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Which all goes back to being PC. No matter how we are all programmed to say we are not being PC, we absolutely are.
I agree that a President shouldn’t say such stupid things.
It’s the OUTRAGE for having said the one word, that I find humorous.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
For the love of God, it’s not a PC issue. It’s a business and progression of the sport issue. Everyone has called someone else a name, but the context matters. I don’t care what Dana personally thinks about anyone. Furthermore, you keep trying to re-frame my and other arguments, and it’s frustrating.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
Thought we were debating. I won’t do it anymore.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
We're debating your points...
but you’re not debating ours. “reframing the argument” means that you’re not taking what we say at it’s meaning and instead assigning your own meaning to it.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I said I'd stop, but...
This will be the last one. What you are saying is being generated by an underlying principle. It is that principle that I chose to bring attention to.
In hopes of not being accused of playing unfairly, I will just be quiet now.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Is political correctness the underlying issue? I’m not sure what you mean, and I’m not mad but a little frustrated. From what I gather from the staff and the regulars here, there are a lot of different beliefs among us. I’ve certainly never looked at myself as being “PC.”
I don’t look at Dana White as a bad or evil person. He’s obviously an intelligent guy who, I think, is somewhat handicapping himself by allowing his emotions to get the best of him. In all honesty, I like his product and want he and the UFC to succeed.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The underlying issue isn’t PC vs. un-PC though. It’s expected and accepted behavior vs. what is not.
If the truth was that the world didn’t care about things like this in a “it will set your business back” sense. And instead just viewed it as un-PC. I wouldn’t care.
Like if calling a woman a dumb fucking bitch was just considered bad form then whatever. But the truth is in today’s world it results in potential sponsorship loss which would hurt the sport and set it back.
I’m not saying “stop arguing with us” by any means.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
I argue all day at my job, so it just comes out when I’m not working.
The two issues are in fact, the same. Expected and accepted behavior is defined by what a sponsor or polite society might think is PC or not. We should just agree that as a whole, we are much too sensitive about every little word or deed uttered in any setting, whether it is a VLOG or a quote on a street corner.
I’m sure Dana would take that moment back if he could, and I would expect him to, but I feel that most of the criticizers focus on utterly PC catch words and paint Dana in entirety from them.
by ProCannonFodder on Apr 9, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay...
the world as a whole is too PC. Absolutely I will agree with that.
But that is the world. And taking that into consideration a person in Dana’s position should adhere to those expectations IF we care about the growth of the sport from this point forward.
I’ve said this on the other articles about this but I never cared about the words he used (even if I did get into the debates of their meanings and impact at times) as much as the fact that he acted in a way that could potentially hurt the sport.
Which obviously isn’t something Dana would ever intentionally do. He loves MMA and I love the guy for what he has done to help it grow thus far. But once it hit a certain point (and where that point is I’m not 100% sure) the same rules no longer applied as did when the sport was little talked about other than on random internet sites.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Luke's radio show does not dictate my opinon...
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
-gasp-
He’s loose again boss, get the tasers!
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 9, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This would all be moot if Dana
could simply filter his mouth a little bit. To be glad that the vlogs are gone entirely seems a bit much. A grown man should be able to control his mouth. I really enjoy the look we get at fighters behind the scenes.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I believe that every fighter is an individual. With the right to say or believe anything they want. “The Sport” does not trump free will and free speech.
No it doesn’t, but I would sure as hell hope that common sense would.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 9, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It always seemed to me that as they progresses, Dana kind of lost the point of the vlogs and what made them enjoyable viewing (in my eyes anyway) – the whole ‘backstage’ to the UFC feel. Slowly it turned into the Dana White show.
The reason that I didn’t enjoy that was because Dana is a crazy egotist with an uncontrollable mouth. I have absolutely no wish to watch the public face a million dollar company curse his way through public life. Dana’s done a huge amount for this sport, and I know there are those that argue its because of his nature that he’s been successful but does anyone honestly believe that the UFC would be any less successful if Dana dropped saying fuck like it was going out of fashion?
It's just marketing
There is a reason why Junie Browning was on TUF and came this close to getting kicked off week after week … it’s the same reason his brother is joining TUF 9 next week. It’s a marketing strategy currently employed by most successful reality TV show’s today. Dana understands this better than most … hence the reason for the consistent outbursts in his vlogs. If its not a ploy to suck the fans into the highly consumable self created UFC drama … then I will be happy to watch the comedy unfold as the mighty find a way to dethrone themselves.
Personally I never read that much into the vlogs. My opinion of Dana before the vlogs is the same afterwards. Maybe he likes pranks more than I thought he would, but it’s not like there was any incredible revelation about him. But I can see how some people could be swayed bot the softening of his image (eg: kids, pranks, etc). I did enjoy the backstate stuff, but ultimately, if they no longer exist, I don’t really care. Just one less thing for me to watch in the morning. I’m sure I can fill that gap with something equally as vapid :)
Luke, are you saying that you don’t like Dana’s Vlogs because it allows the fans to see his point of view, which you have decided is inherently evil and a detriment to the sport?
No...
what he said was that he doesn’t like that the Vlogs contribute to the fan’s mindless defense of anything Dana does regardless of if it is appropriate or not by creating this “he’s just one of us” mentality.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you mean?
I’m very pro-Dana. Everyone on the site is “pro-Dana” in what he has done for the sport.
We’re certainly not under any obligation to have someone assigned to defend him against any criticism. If you’re expecting forced defenses of bad behavior this isn’t the site for you.
If one of our writers honestly feels that they should be defending him in this situation…they will.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The same can be said about
The MMA “Media”… So many of the “journalists” speculate so much on the character of Dana, and accuse him and the UFC of horrible business practices by cherry-picking quotes from particular fighters, that for a LONG time Dana was one of the most hated guys amongst the hardcore… It would be STUPID to allow any fanboy that could start a blog (not a reference to BE AT ALL) to shape the views of potential fans, or viewers of the sport… FOr as many people that defend Dana because of his blogs, theres 2 more that hate him for no other reason than the speculation, and commentary of sites like sherdog.com and mmapayout, amongst others.
And that's a fair argument...
some sites/fans do hate Dana just because it’s easy to hate the biggest dog in the yard. And that’s not any better.
I was simply saying that Luke’s point was that they did help foster the us vs. the world mentality which in some ways is good but others results in mindless defense.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, but//
I don’t think that making efforts to combat that is a bad thing… I think we all should know that theres more to everything than whats at the surface, but that its not always a negative. I don’t think Dana deserves a pass because of his Vlogs, I just think that the criticism needs to expand beyond him if its going to occur… I think a lot of people look at the media online as definitive information, when its very often skewed, and has bias… If we can recognize the bias, and ulterior motives of Dana it should be recognized of others…
Wow, really? Still?
Why is BE still writing about this? All of the other credible MMA outlets have moved on to something else.. like this weekend’s upcoming fights (strikeforce) and UFC 97, etc. If you don’t like the vlogs don’t watch them it’s pretty simple. He doesn’t link to them from ufc.com, he doesn’t play them during the PPV events… You can’t keep comparing MMA to mainstream sports because it’s not. They’re trying to get there but it’s not there yet. So don’t hold them to the same standards. Like any early/young sport there are lessons to be learned but we as fans need to accept those lessons learned, or not and MOVE ON!
But you, Luke, should appreciate the vlogs because it’s clearly given you something to write about. over. and. over. and. over.
by baychic on Apr 9, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Give it a rest.
You can go somewhere else, the “other credible MMA outlets” perhaps, if you don’t like the content. It’s one story. There’s plenty of other stuff here to chew on.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not one story LOL
those that know very little about the sport are as AlwaysRelaxing said – doing a lot of assuming based on what little exposure they have. And BE continues to write about it. Nothing has changed. No new angle. Same OPINION.
This is one story. You or I or anyone else don’t have to agree with the commentary. That’s not essential. However, this is a “story” and people here have as much right as anyone else to give an opinion. I have enough faith in people that they can, on balance, discern what is important and what is not if given a range of honest information and opinions.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 9, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa, calm down there.
Luke is just making the observation, and rightfully so, that the Vlogs are a PR tool for getting the UFC and Dana White’s drum beat out to the viewing public.
They are also personal but at the same time they are a PR tactic.
One final thing. We should hold the UFC to the same standard as the other mainstream sports without question. Your right that there will be stumbling blocks a long the way and these are understandable, but it should be our goal in the MMA blogosphere and media to treat the sport as if it were one of the big three.
watchkalibrun.com
ALSO
baychic is overlooking the fact that this is a new angle to the story as now they brought the VLOGs back. And Luke has never expressed his full opinion on the VLOGs.
This isn’t about the faggot/bitch thing. It’s about the impact of the VLOGs on the community
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
SO?
It really just comes off as… Don’t let DANA WHITE FOOL YOU WITH HIS BLOGS!!!! lol… Its fairly obvious that Dana’s approval from the hardcores has gone up due to the blogs (though many of the elitist find something to complain about though they still CHOOSE to watch)…. I don’t see anything wrong with allowing yourself to remember that Dana is “just like us”, especially when so many of the bloggers/"journalists, etc. seem to want to shape fans’ opinions of Dana… Its a knock against Dana using a similar medium as MANY other Media News Sites, which doesn’t make sense. If that’s the case then you should be writing this same article about Sherdog editorials, warning fans not to believe all the nonsense that they write about Dana because it’s just a tactic to gain more attention, and speculate on widely misinterpreted information.
by Loot on Apr 9, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And again...
I don’t really disagree… but I’ve started to look at a lot of the online mediums of MMA information differently after this whole fiasco… TO me, the blogosphere wants to be taken seriously as a source of information for the MMA world, yet doesn’t put itself to the standards that they impose among others “representing” the sport… Why should these sites be taken seriously as information from the sport, if they don’t have higher standards for themselves? or atleast more often take a look at the other side of the situations, instead of siding so often with their counterparts online
So…it’s okay for the big powers in the Sports Media to look down upon MMA with the same spite and disgust as they have with North American Mainstream Pro-Wrestling. Just as long as Dana gets to act stupid in front of a camera for your viewing pleasure?
Right?
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
A lot of statements made with little proof. Dana White showing favortism? Has anybody had inside access to the discussions about the matchmaking? Without that, you are doing a lot of assuming based on 5 minute videos that have been editted.
Opinions?! On a BLOG?! THE HORROR!
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not an opinion written by Luke Thomas. That is an accusation with basically no proof.
It seems like everything Dana White and the UFC does is instantly perceived as negative until proven otherwise. This is just another example of that.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 9, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What is an accusation?
Which part specifically are we talking about?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If someone has been following the UFC for any length of time...
and think there isn’t an element of favoritism vs. access getting cut off based on how you cover the organization than I suppose that person and me will never see eye to eye on this area of the debate.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
um…PR is a branch of a business dedicated to…public relations.
They’re controlling who is allowed access to cover them based on only allowing “friendly media” or those so big that they MUST allow access.
Are they allowed to do this? Sure. But is it expected behavior in sports? Not really.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like anything else in life, there is the human element to it.
However, for the most part, wins matter in the UFC. Very few guys like Chris Lytle are the exception. Even an exciting UFC Fanboy like Jorge Gurgel got cut…. why? because he wasn’t winning.
At the end of the day, wins matter. That isn’t much for favortism.
Now, there is always the Brock Lesnar example. However, he also was a PPV jugernaut, and not exactly the norm.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 9, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
wait...are we talking about fighters or media relations?
because of course favoritism being shown to fighters is fine.
I was speaking about the media aspect
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if I agree with some of the original post. For the most part the people watching the VLOGs (in my opinion) are the hardcore MMA fan, the ones that are already exposed to other MMA outside of the UFC. Do we really think that these people are going to be wooed into being brainwashed by White and his UFC message that comes through via the blog occasionally?
I liked the blogs because it shows a side of the business that most people (hardcore or otherwise) would never see. I’m educated enough to know what is White’s ‘message’ and what I take from the content of the video. When White fell off the deep end in the controversial video I was unhappy with what he said, I understand why he was angry but I didn’t agree with his response.
I would be very surprised if there were a lot of people who thought the way he handled himself was very good given his position in the company and how his comments would reflect on his person.
The biggest problem with his blogs is that he needs to have someone objectively (from the company) look at the content and ask “is this something that reflects very negatively for us”. Anyone with half a brain could say that there was way too much questionable commentary in the ‘suspect’ blog for it to be released.
yeah
That’s a question I have been pondering for awhile. How did the UFC allow that Vlog to be posted? did anyone look at it or was it just White and the cameraman?
I can bet that there will always be someone from the PR department reviewing the Vlogs from now on
watchkalibrun.com
It is the most important aspect of this whole thing....
DID THE UFC LEARN? WILL THE UFC ADJUST IT’S BEHAVIOR AND PRACTICES ACCORDINGLY?
those are the only questions that really matter.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If they would just have somebody with a brain edit the Vlog’s so nothing outrageous like his last rant makes it on there, then we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. Better editing=less controversy.
The VLOGs are a public relations tool...
the UFC has a large PR department. How the VLOGs aren’t ran past the PR department to get a thumbs up is beyond me
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
Please get off this already!! Could you guys at least try to hide your bitterness towards the UFC?
We have no personal bitterness toward the UFC...
but I know you’re just going to say you don’t believe it so why am I even bothering with writing this?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That's how it's coming off
That you are bitter towards either the UFC or more likely Dana White in particular. There seems to be a not so subtle slant to many of your stories lately.
Recently, Dana White has been in the news for saying stupid shit. That might be why it seems we’ve been anti-Dana recently.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I 100% disagree with that. I love the vlogs and I think Luke’s position that they’re bad because they make fans more likely to defend White’s fuck-ups is flat out wrong. Also, they’re apparently not going to stop them entirely, so yay.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Apr 9, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh ok, that’s good to know lol. I mean, I imagined champaigne and hookers running wild at the BE offices after hearing the news, and heck maybe even a big dartboard using a picture of Dana White’s face.
But I guess Luke celebrating at his desk with a kazoo and a sparkler is probably a bit closer to reality?
I'm more or less indifferent
I enjoyed the VLOGs but I didn’t feel awful about them going away. I don’t think they were contributing too much to the “buddy relationship” that a lot of fans have for White like Luke does.
So you’ve got Luke on one side, Richard on the other, me chilling in the middle…I dunno about everyone else on staff.
I think it’s important to realize that we don’t have “agendas” as a site. We all live in different areas of the country…we don’t have offices where we hang out and figure out how to burn down the UFC.
And honestly the UFC collapsing is the worst possible thing for the sport and our site. So we’re not going to attack the UFC without reason just because we want to see an empire burn…etc.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Understood.
One thing I tend to do a lot, and I think others do as well, is forget that these articles are written by individuals. BE.com saying they are glad the Vlogs are gone is pretty different than one individual who writes for BE.com saying they are glad the Vlogs are gone.
Why is bloodyelbow so obsessed with the mainstream? I find it hard to believe its for the good of the sport and not for your own potential gain. Seriously, you go on the Big O and Dukes show and talk about how you are going to weed all the fans that don’t want a mainstream MMA out of the sport. What blow hard BS. You don’t care if our sport gets bastardized because you will make more money from extra revenue. And you agreed with Dukes assessment of what he thinks MMAs goal should be, “its about making lots of scratch”, while Dana has said he is mainly interested in starting a sport. I respect Dana’s vision of MMA a lot more than what you want it to be.
Dana is the one saying we'll be bigger than the NFL
and wanting to get the sport to the level of other major sports.
To do that without mainstream attention is…um…impossible.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Also..
of course I want the sport I love to grow. I don’t write about this sport because there is a lot of money to be made on this site. Trust me, we’re all working our asses off in day jobs in addition to all the work we give this site. People really seem to think that we’re diving into Scrooge McDuck vaults full of money because of what we do here with BE.
Do we want the sport to grow? Absolutely! Would we benefit from it? Yes! Why is that somehow a bad thing?
We want the sport to be as big as possible because it will ensure long term health for MMA, bigger paydays for fighters, better athletes looking at MMA as an option over other pro sports…etc. It’s hardly because if the sport doubled in popularity we’d have it made in the shade.
The sport would have to grow to a level where I’m able to make what I make as an editor for this site 295 times over just to equal what I make from my day job (and I’m not taking in a huge salary by any means). If you think we’re under the idea that if the sport goes mainstream we’re suddenly riding the money horse to cashtown you’re way off.
Would I like the mainstream effect to lead to me being able to work at covering MMA exclusively? sure…but I fail to see how somehow that taints my view of things.
The idea that wanting to sport to go mainstream is somehow selfish is something I can’t really follow.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You make tons more scratch catering to everyone more then just a demograph.
And to be perfectly honest, I’m pretty sick and tired of be compared to a meathead or a borderline retard by people who don’t see MMA as an athletic equal to other sports. That goes doubly so with people’s perceptions on martial arts.
Unless you revel in the fact that Mr. Lunkhead of the Sports Media compares you to a Sports Entertainment fan.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
lol.
Eh.. You went a little overboard… especially comparisons of Dana (who profits GREATLY from the growth of the sport) to BE Staff after attacking them for only wanting more revenue… How much do you think they’re making off this site? I’m pretty sure these guys are TRUE fans of the sport through thick and thin, and the work they put into makes that fairly obvious… The fact that they are so involved, whether it be just on this site, or Luke and Nate’s work with UWC is why they want the sport to grow… So that we can enjoy more fights, fighters can make enough money to train full time, and develop skills, so that the economic value of MMA supersedes old stereotypes and negative association with “ultimate fighting” and makes local legislation push for its sanctioning… Those reasons alone make the growth of the sport not just desirable, but essential.
for the record
I’m no longer with the UWC.
And I make enough to cover my cable bills and not much more off BE.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
I make nothing. :-)
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
You can make money and have integrity. You can also make no money and have no integrity. BE relies on Dana to increase their viewership than BE can really do themselves. SUre they can improve their product and increase advertising, but if the UFC attracts a mainstream audience, surely BE would pick up a lot of new readers! When I start reading articles with luke telling the community to be on their best behavior for UFC 100 because espn and other mainstream news will be watching, thats just blowhard. Do you think there is anything you can say to sway that NY senator that keeps quashing MMA in NY? NO!!!!!! Why would you try to cater the sport to these people then? If they don’t have a sound bit of the CEO saying Faggot, than they have plenty of ways to over exaggerate and take parts of the sport out of context in order to make it sound criminal. Some people will never like MMA, deal with it.
Be on your best behavior because a big event like UFC 100 will bring in new readers we don’t need you guys scaring off.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Apr 14, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
the blogs are back because
the FANS over on the UG asked him to bring them back. From what I have read from CindyO, Dana had no intention of continuing to do them.
It was only after the fans came out and asked him not to stop, that he changed his mind.
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