Reflections on the End of Pride
by Michael Rome on Apr 8, 2009 3:39 PM EDT
in MMA News
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It's hard to even discuss Pride anymore without dealing with allegations of steroids and inevitable debates over whether it was better than the UFC. Personally, I've always found it hard to even compare the two. Not only were the rules different, the sport was different. Pride was so much more about entertaining shows and performances than wins and losses, which is not to take away from it in any way. The competition was still legitimate in under its own assumed set of rules, and I'm not bold enough to claim there is one universal "right" way to run an MMA promotion.
Pride holds a special place in my heart because it really got me back into mixed martial arts. In the very early years my friends and I got into renting UFC shows from blockbuster, but we were casual fans at best given our age. We caught a few pay per view shows too, but once it was essentially banished from pay per view, I fell out of it. It wasn't until I started grabbing Pride DVDs from online sources and then from Best Buy that I really got into MMA again.
There are enough people talking about how Pride died, and not enough talking about how exciting it was to finally see Fedor Emelianenko vs. Mirko CroCop or Rampage vs. Wanderlei II. Some of my most enjoyable nights as a fan were spent staying up all night to see Pride shows. Going nuts over Wanderlei Silva destroying men is one of my favorite MMA memories.
There's definitely an issue of fans taking a rosy view of Pride, and refusing to see the downsides. A lot of Pride fight booking was smoke and mirrors, cards always felt stacked but were often filled with one-sided fights designed for purposes of entertainment and star power rather than to determine the best fighters in the world. Further, the over scheduling of fighters did a lot of damage to guys like Wanderlei Silva and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, who both look a lot older than their age given the damage they took. I don't even want to go into the Yakuza stuff, others know the details a lot better than I do, and have addressed it in depth, but it's another obvious downside.
In the end, I'll always remember Pride fondly for all it brought to the sport, including my favorite MMA fight of all time, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Mirko CroCop. Nogueira had a lot of great moments in the sport, but I think this was really the best. The explosion of emotion from the enormous crowd at his comeback win was really as good as MMA gets, and for all of Pride's faults, it's the kind of thing nobody else has been able to duplicate.
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That picture is great
Being a HUGE fan of Cro Cop, even I couldn’t be mad at the way that fight ended. Nogueira showed more heart in that fight that he made a fan out of me. Fights like Gomi/Diaz, Rampage/Wandy II, and Cro Cop/Fedor to this day never get old.
PRIDE is, and forever will be, the golden standard of MMA. It touched so many people and brought so many unmeasurable joy…it’s really was a shame when it went away, just as more people were going into the sport.
Pride has some entertaining fights, but
I would never go so far as to call it the “gold standard”. There were too many shady practices going on behind the scenes. Stuff that would make today’s MMA blog call for Dana White’s head if the UFC had done.
A lot of it is just speculation and innuendo though. If you asked a lot of newer fans if PRIDE was “shady”, they’d say yes based on the one or two stories they’d heard even if they have no real way of knowing what the big picture was like. For what it is worth, there are some juicy tales of intrigue behind stuff like the UFC sale and their TUF era sponsorship troubles as well.
PRIDE at its peak, from around 2003-2006 was clearly the pinnacle of MMA so far. The regular crowds of 35,000+ and cards stacked to the brim with big HW and LHW matches will probably be remembered most fondly. Plus they put on massive tournaments that really brought all the best in the division together, like the Bushido 9 event.
For what it is worth, there are some juicy tales of intrigue behind stuff like the UFC sale and their TUF era sponsorship troubles as well.
Has the UFC ever been accused of fixing fights by the fighters involved in said fights?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It was not speculation or innuendo.
1. Mark Coleman tapping to Nobuhiko Takada was a straight out work.
2. Kazushi Sakuraba’s legend was born on some real shady dealings. First, he beat Royler Gracie by ref stoppage, despite the rules not allowing the ref to stop the fight. Royler would have just hung on and it would have been a draw. Then Sakuraba should have lost in the first round of the Grand Prix, but the tournament officials went against their word to Guy Mezger, and tried to make it go to a second round.
3. Wanderlei Silva lost to Ricardo Arona in a non-title (tournament fight). Silva then wins a razor close decision against Arona. There is no rubber match. Same thing happened with Takanori Gomi & Marcus Aurelio.
Pride had so many issues, those are a quick 3….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Coleman vs. Takada was from before PRIDE really had its own identity separate from strong-style puroresu. It would kind of be like saying UFC can’t be trusted because of suspected works like Belfort vs. Charles, and Taktarov vs. Macias. Things changed.
Sakuraba vs. Mezger was shady, I’ll give you that.
But it wouldn't be like that
Because none of the UFC guys you mentioned came out and said ‘the org wanted/had a predetermined outcome for the fight.’ In Dana’s words, that’s fucking illegal.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It was almost a year to the day of the Finals of the Pride Grand Prix. They all of a sudden found their identity in a year? Makes no sense.
Naoya Ogawa was rumored to have worked fights after 2000. Don Frye was too, or at least fights that were guaranteed not to go to the ground, just like Kimbo/Seth.
People will say there is no proof, but there were plenty of fights that looked extremely shady. I’m talking about stuff that has never occurred like that since. I really don’t believe in coincidences.
And there is more then that. Mitsuhiro Ishida beat Marcus Aurelio (who had just beat Gomi). His next fight with Gomi was a non-title fight. That is like mental wreckage on a fighter. Telling them they have to win twice in order to get a title.
And then there were the late notices for the fights. Japanese guys would know far more in advance that there was a fight compared to their foreign counterparts.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Crocop/Randleman was a work
I’m as sure of it as I can be without someone involved coming out and saying it
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 8, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if you're joking but...
If Randleman can knock out Cro Cop, Cro Cop can submit Randleman.
Were I merely saying it was a work
because it ended in a submission, you’d have a point.
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 9, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
“There were too many shady practices going on behind the scenes”
Wow…then you must be one of those guys living out in a cave with awesome wifi.
If you support any business of any kind, you are supporting “shady practices”. That’s just the truth of the World.
Yeah, but some companies are shadier than others. Also, some are more successful and less shady/corrupt than others.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, to me, if a company is shady in the slightest, then it is equally as shady as any other shady company. To be apart of a Capitalist system is to be defined by the unethical.
+1
That might be your best troll job ever.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Well, that’s a mindset that can lead to treating the UFC and PRIDE as one and the same.
However, it’s a very, very minority mindset.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Pride was the gold standard in the Japanese market it was always just a underground cult thing in North America. The real falacy has always been that there was some kind of actual business competition between Pride and the UFC, they were in completly different media markets and were designed to appeal to two completly different groups of people. The competition was between hardcore fans opinions not what was actually going on.
by who me on Apr 8, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec’d for that. I say the same thing whenever someone mentions that the UFC needs a strong Japanese promotion to ‘compete’ with.
It really speaks to the silliness of the UFC buying Pride just to kill them off, why would a US market company buy a Japanese market company for the purpose of killing them off? The UFC gained zero market share due to Pride’s death, heck the vast majority of the people in the UFC’s target market didn’t even know Pride existed.
Pride wasnt purchased just to kill off the japanese competition…
Pride was for sale whether zuffa wanted to purchase or not.
The wwe and other things were involved…. Basically after the pride purchase Zuffa could have sold a chunk of itself for some decent coin but ultimately decided not to.
And Pride being bought for 65m is a misnomer… if “PRIDE WORLDWIDE” produced any revenue then the purchase price could have potentially become 65m plus.
by mmalogic on Apr 8, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What I’m curious is the status of the lawsuit against Pride in order to get recission of the sale.
There has been no news on it, but the more I’ve read and learned about international litigation, the more I realize all the talk about how they’ll “never get them into court” is completely wrong.
What good is the brand without the fighters?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
there was competition for fighters
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
Not to a really high degree though. The only big name guy to really move directly over is when Murilo was poached and vacated the MW title. Most everyone else (not that there were many) were released and no longer wanted by one company before moving over to the other. Mirko and Nogueira were poached but Pride was basically on its deathbed at that point so they had no choice.
Yes there were two companies trying to sign fighters, but even that wasn’t much of a competition. When MMA was peaking in Japan then Pride pretty much signed who they wanted when they wanted them and when the sport took off in the US then the UFC did the same. That was more of fighters migrating to where the money was as opposed to a competition between companies.
I also would put Dana White in with the fanboys who saw competition there(he’s the biggest fanboy of them all) but it’s still comparing a Japanese media company with a US based media company. They were in drastically different marketplaces, if it wasn’t for the internet there wouldn’t of even been the fanboy competition going on.
Agreed...
PRIDE is why I’m here today. I followed the UFC…loved guys like Kerr, Coleman, Smith..etc. But then took a break. It was the first Grand Prix that I just happened to order off PPV on a whim going “OH! fighting! and a tournament! OH! Coleman!” Watched it and became re-addicted to the sport and PRIDE in specific. Then as the UFC started to get strong again it was beautiful as there were TWO thriving promotions.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 8, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
I like how a UFC vet turned you onto PRIDE.
Were you not shitting your pants happy when the UFC pulled off the purchase and announced fucking Dan Henderson unification bouts? This happened before I was a totalitarian MMA pusher, and I was stoked.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I could never enjoy pride
Aside from obvious exceptions, I had to watch every Pride match with a skeptical eye towards fakery. There were no rules, legal or cultural or otherwise, to prevent pro-wrestling works from going on. There are even confirmed instances of them.
I know a lot of people say that was all in the early days, but I’m not so sure. I think they just got better at making it less obvious. To this day I think Randleman-Crocop 2 was fake, along with a few others. I obviously can’t prove it, but you all know there’s NOTHING that would stop them from doing it if they wanted to.
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 8, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions
I'll remember the great fights more than anything else - and that's ME saying that
That being said, I think what’s been most lauded and missed about PRIDE – the great crowds, the comebacks, the emotion – is all directly attributable to the Japanese people. Their crowds are, bar none, the best in the world. I would kill to be able to watch a massive UFC card in Tokyo, just to be in a room with 70,000 other people that are watching the same thing that I am, in their seats, quietly. Respectfully.
Nowhere is it written that the great scenes we remember from PRIDE can’t be, like, combined with competent fight making, fight injury management, rules against collusion and (gasp) independent drug testing and made new again. I’m the worst kind of optimist because I don’t take practicality (or the Yakuza) into my hopes, but so it goes.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Wasn’t there a post just the other day that saitama super arena only holds 25K or so when configured for MMA?
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 8, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Tokyo Dome (東京ドーム Tōkyō Dōmu, TYO: 9681) is a 55,000-seat(real 42,000-seat) stadium located in Bunkyo Ward of Tokyo, Japan.
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 8, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If Zuffa did half of the things that Pride did, people would be calling for the UFC to go out of business.
1. Non-Title Fights
2. Horrible Decisions
3. Freak Show match-ups
4. Winning fighters not being invited back because they were boring (Okami & Sherk come to mind).
I don’t think people remember how bad Pride really was. It was a lot of smokes and mirrors.
Pride and the UFC were in completly different markets on different sides of the world. What worked there doesn’t neccessarily mean it’s what would work here (or the other way around). Lets face it Pride had a underground following in North America but it was never meant for this market, it’s a Japanese product designed to appeal to the Japanese people.
“What works” and fixing fights are two very different things. Pride had fixed fights.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So? If you are going to market an entertainment show to the Japanese then occasionally you are going to do things for entertainment value. Pride’s beginnings were as a shoot off from professional wrestling and a lot of the things they always did spawned from that. Of course as the evolved they moved more towards sport (and fixed fights later in the company are just pure speculation) but it should never be forgotten that Pride was first and foremost a tv show that lived or died on it’s ratings. Pride was never trying to sell itself as the future of sports or the thing that was going to replace baseball and football like the UFC is they were selling themselves to the Japanese public by presenting what the Japanese public liked to see.
1. Hughes vs. Gracie
2. Hamill vs. Bisping, Jardine vs .Bonnar
3. Sean Gannon vs. Branden Lee Hinkle
4. Clementi and Werdum are both winners in my book, but they were cut because they make good money.
Typical Pride fanboy stuff right here.
They find one example from the UFC, yet there can be compared 10 examples from Pride. What happens once in a long time in the UFC, was a regular occurance in Pride. That is a huge difference. I don’t have time to show each point, but let me take the first one, to show you how wrong you are:
Matt Hughes has had 12 title fights in the UFC. The only two non-title fights are joe Riggs, which was because of a missed weight, and Royce Gracie, which was a special attraction.
Wanderlei Silva during his time in Pride had 20 fights in Pride while champion. Only 5 of those fights were for the title.
Do you see the major difference here? You are using one example to prove your point, but it doesn’t show the overall picture.
Man, these Pride fanboys are out in strong force today. Give it up. They went out of business.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I messed up the numbers slightly on Hughes, but you still get the general point.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re moving the goal posts. You said if Zuffa did the things that PRIDE did, and I gave examples corresponding to the issues you brought up.
And like I said, there is a difference between a one off example (which you are giving) and doing it as a general business practice. Hughes/Gracie was a one time thing, special thing. It is out of the norm.
Either way, you, or anybody else, has really yet to refute the issues I brought up.
It seems like the Pride fanboys will never give up. Never understood people living in the past so much.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am talking about the past. And how it wasn;t as good as some people are trying to make it seem.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Fedor Emelianenko, & Wanderlei Silva had more non-title fights as champions then they did title fights.
So I can conclusively say that is the norm.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention that Zuffa didn’t do half the things you are saying. Clementi & Werdum were cut after loses, not wins. I wouldn’t call Gannon/Hinkle a freakshow fight. A mismatch, yes. A freakshow? no. I was at that fight. They were both the same size and Gannon was perceived to not be out of his league before the fight. Big difference between that and Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Bob Sapp, which is a legit freakshow fight. And one of many examples.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe I'm saying this...
but I’m 100% behind smoogy here. It has become trendy to shit on PRIDE these days and minimize exactly what they did. Was their style of promotion and matchmaking different from the US style? Absolutely. Did they offer enough competitive, high level main events over the course of their run to be seen as the absolute dominant force in MMA for a few year stretch? Absolutely. PRIDE was the absolute shit during its run.
So what if there were some freakshow fights? Or if they had non-title fights…
the non-title fight thing doesn’t even matter considering that a champion never lost a non title fight (except in a tournament where the title absolutely should not have been on the line)
The promotion was great
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 8, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Paying fighters to fight without testing them for PED’s = endangering the fighters. I liked watching PRIDE too, don’t get me wrong, but just because it’s dead and the big bad wolf killed it doesn’t mean it was all rainbows and lolly pops before.
I just get the feeling that, if after beating Hendo, Anderson Silva fought Rey Mysterio Jr and Lurch from the Addams Family, the UFC would get bashed to no end, but in Japan, it’s ‘quirky’ or ‘part of the culture’. The culture here (and now, prominently, throughout the higher echelons of MMA) is one of testing, champions defending their belts every time out against legit competition (yes, Cote counts) and putting the best against the best. I like it more that way.
MMA has come far since the death of PRIDE, and the sky is the limit.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh come on, don’t act like the ridiculous testing we do now protects the fighters. All it does is benefit the fighters rich enough to have scientists on payroll and camps able to test ahead of time and stay ahead of the curve on drugs.
The thing Pride did to endanger the fighters was schedule them to fight so much. That and the stomps and knees.
People don’t realize how much of Japan’s booking was targeted toward the entire general Japanese population, especially women and entire families who would get together with interest for big shows. The top MMA audience so far is still nowhere near Japan in terms of percentage of the population, and they did it pretty fast over there.
Oh, for Christ's sake
Can we not diminish the importance of doing everything in your power to catch the cheaters? Hell, Zuffa does it when they’re overseas and nobody’s making them – they could have easily sat on the Leben positive and not told anyone, but they didn’t. I mean, fuck, man, Karo wouldn’t have even been popped had he fought Dong in Japan. Do you think that would be good for him?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 10, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
If it makes you feel better, most of the people who try to marginalize it now weren’t actually watching back then.
I was up all night for results for the Pride Grand Prix. I was shocked when Mark Kerr was out in the first round. Even more shocked Coleman won. And I waited like evrybody else for the tiniest of details and couldn’t believe Sakuraba/Gracie kept on going another round…. And then Sakuraba actually fought again.
With that said, I was never a believer in their smokes and mirror tactics.
This falsity that people who hate on Pride now are either TUF Fans or new to the sport is just a way for the old time fans to hold onto something they loved without taking legit criticsm.
HERE IS WHY PRIDE WAS SO GREA TO YOU:
They only allowed the exciting or Japanese fighters to stick around. The UFC has exciting and boring fighters in their organization. If a fighter was boring in Pride, he wouldn’t be around. So what we got was a diluted reality. It was just the best of the exciting fighters, not the best of the best.
And many of the fans bought into this.
I had (and vocalized) these comments while Pride was still around. It’s sad people can’t admit to it.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
PRIDE had better HW divisions and LHW divisions for the meat of their run than the UFC. And that was prior to these guys joining the UFC so saying “nuh uh…look what happened when they came to the UFC” is not an argument.
The accepted reality of those days was that the PRIDE LHW and HW divisions were far and away better than the UFC’s.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 8, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Most Top 10’s had 7 to 8 Pride guys and 2 or 3 UFC guys. When in reality, it was closer to 5 to 5.
Just because it was the accepted reality, doesn’t mean it was the truth.
Also, the Pride guys coming to the UFC does show the equality. Cro Cop won the Open-Weight Tournament, then his very next fight was in the UFC.
It showcased that Pride wasn’t way above and beyond like people thought.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I fail to see how the failure of a single guy in cro-cop to excel in the UFC shows how PRIDE as a whole was less impressive.
There are plenty of PRIDE guys who have done just fine outside of the promotion (Rampage, Henderson..etc). Cherry picking fighters who lose when they leave any promotion doesn’t give a fair sense of the relative value of said promotion previous to that time.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 8, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Cro Cop was the #2 Heavyweight at the time. I think that’s a big deal.
You are right, plenty have done good. Plenty have failed miserably. Which showed Pride wasn’t above and beyond what the UFC was. It was a spectacle. That is for sure. It was not better. It was 50/50. People who think Pride was the best at the time were just buying into the hype. Obviously, a lot of people have.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
“the non-title fight thing doesn’t even matter considering that a champion never lost a non title fight”
Gomi
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 8, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
the non-title fight thing doesn’t even matter considering that a champion never lost a non title fight
Gomi/Diaz, I don’t care what the NSAC says, Gomi lost that fight.
Sorry...
I was thinking about the champions listed in Silva, Fedor, Nog
You’re right though
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You also forgot gomi/aurelio
There goes all your MMA nerd cred!
_
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 9, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Werdum got cut because he got KTFO by a rookie after bitching about getting passed for a title fight and refusing to take a pay cut.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 8, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
As for #4…. Are you really going to compare Clementi (5-5 in UFC) and Werdum 2-2 in UFC) to Sherk and Okami?
You are stretching.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 8, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Hughes vs Gracie was a old UFC vs new UFC match and was important from that standpoint.
2. Two examples of questionable judging doesn’t mean that anything was crooked it just means the sports judging system isn’t perfect.
3. No arguements on that one.
4. You said it yourself with “in my book”. Your opinion is still just your opinion. I agree on Werdum(not on Clementi, he lost two in a row before he was cut) but it’s still just opinion. Still it’s not like either of those guys won big and then were fired they both got cut after loses.
5. Outright works
6. Get-choked-out bonuses
7. Funneling money to the yakuza so they can kidnap women
by Phantom Of Krankor on Apr 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
Same here
It’s a crocop highlight that brought me back to watching shows. Then I saw rampage vs arrona, and it was O-V-E-R. Pride was more exciting than ufc back then.
Nice, well balanced article. The Bushido shows were my fav. Saeki ran a tight ship there and from about Bushido 7 (such a good show) until the bitter end they were probs the best MMA shows around (better than ‘regular’ Pride, the UFC, and everyone else). Bushido 9 was basically the tightest one-night tournament ever this side of IFC Global Domination (although Minowa’s fights were terrible. They let him LnP Baroni and then stood up Busta as he was passing guard. Weak).
The main Prides I wasn’t too big a fan of. I felt they peaked at FC 2003 and it was basically downhill from there. Don’t get me wrong, they were decent shows, I just didn’t understand the undue praise they got. The matchmaking, as a whole, was pretty poor for a lot of the main Pride shows. For every fight like Mirko vs. Fedor or Nogueira vs. Werdum there was three or four completely one-sided beatdowns on the undercard.
For all the problems Pride had...
… whether it was allegations of roid abuse or gangsters, or fixed fights, whatever – in the end, I enjoyed those fights imensely. The announcing, the atmosphere, the whole package – I thought it was fun. Of course, that was before MMA came to consume my life. Now, I am much more wary of certain practices and I have my own view of what things I want MMA to avoid in order to move from the fringe sport it still is today, (it’s come a long way, but there’s still so much farther to go) but there is just something about the Japanese environment that I still love. I really look forward to Dream shows in a different way than I do towards UFC shows.
The sad thing is I never heard of PRIDE untell it was gone.
I have really only been into MMA for about 2-3 years, but have seen most PRIDE events thanks to Netflix.
I like PRIDE and what they did, even though some of their fights were fixed (having cans fed to the popular fighters), the events were always fun the watch.
MMA is entertainment. I would like for it to be completely clean but it isn’t. So what. PRIDE FC was incredible in so many ways.
A lot of the worlds elite fighters have spent time in the ring under the PRIDE banner. Chuck, Rampage, Cro cop, Wandy, Fedor just to name a few. Some incredible fights took place and a few that were more along the lines of freak shows. They didn’t try and hide it. And for that I respect them, they never forced Sapp down my throat as THE best heavyweight.
I guess what I am saying is that beating the dead horse that provided a living/platform/entertainment for so many fighters and fans is plain criminal. PRIDE servered its purpose and MMA and the fans owe it some gratitude. The UFC wouldn’t be where it is today with out PRIDE.
I’ve never understood the need to compare or take sides when it comes to Pride and UFC. Every posting has a myriad of people claiming that one is better, the other is more corrupt etc. Why not just enjoy both for what they were? Pride was flat out awesome. I loved the ring format, and I love how the audience was perfectly quiet and then erupted when their fighter passed to mount or whatever. So cool.
Shogun had some great fights. His war with lil’Nog was epic, and his destruction of Rampage was frightening.
Hey, now. Stop talking that “sense”. We don’t like “sense” around these here interwebs.
But it’s true; both orgs had/have things about them that I like and things that I don’t. Personally, I prefer the cage to the ring – every time they stop a fight to reset guys in the middle of the ring, and the ref messes around trying to get them back into the same position… yeargh. On the other hand, the atmosphere provided by the Japanese fans is lightyears ahead of most NA audiences (especially Vegas – for a big fight town, I think a lot of the paying fans there don’t know a damn thing about fighting or are in severe genetic distress). So hey, I love watching the UFC, I still watch old PRIDE fights, and to me the only really sad thing about PRIDE being gone is that something equally good but different has not arisen to take its place.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
I'm not...
trying to say one was better than the other really. Just that minimizing what PRIDE did is…annoying
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
During a period they were...
then during a different period it was clearly the UFC
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 9, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
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