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MMA Live Event Commentary

Frank-mir_medium

MMA media watchdog and fellow Bloody Elbow staffer, Mike Fagan, echoes the sentiments of many fans following Frank Mir's cageside performance at WEC 40.  Notable quote:

I love Frank Mir the Commentator.  In my opinion, he’s the best English-speaking, regular MMA broadcaster right now.  However, he turned in an absolutely brutal performance during the Torres-Mizugaki main event.  If you had no clue how to judge a fight, you would have scored the fight 50-45 based on Mir’s explanation of the action.

Jordan Breen takes the discussion past Mir and examines what he describes as an "endemic" problem:

So, Harris is inadequate ... how does that impact Mir's performance? Unfortunately, commentary doesn't exist in a vacuum; it's about interactional chemistry. Because Harris can neither offer context, insight nor even properly call action, Mir is forced to call essentially all of the technical action himself on top of describing its intricacies. This pattern exists in basically every MMA booth because of the fact that there are really no gifted MMA play-by-play announcers. Even the comparatively hyper-experienced Mike Goldberg, who has called UFC events since before the Corn Laws were repealed, barely calls any action. Instead he relies on Joe Rogan, who is forced to fulfill both traditional commentary roles.

This is a fundamental flaw that is endemic to MMA and one that's not about to change in the near future. Therefore, guys like Mir, who are already ill-suited to color commentary because of their in-cage requirements, are forced to pick up an enormous amount of slack for a human being who is fit to do nothing but take a broadcast in and out of commercial breaks. As a result, on top of being ill prepared, Mir has to talk endlessly until the fighters in the cage can chill out momentarily and let Harris plug "Crank 2." (Side note: How the hell is Crank now a franchise?) Of course, this is the complete inverse of how sports booths tend to functionally operate, where experienced professionals can carry the insightful but unnuanced athletes.

Much like Fagan, I also believe Mir is an extremely talented commentator who has a lot to offer in terms of technical MMA knowledge and experience.  And as Breen points out, Mir has much more to worry about than preparing for and performing commentating duties.  Obviously, Mir showed partiality toward Miguel Torres, and that unfortunately damaged the WEC product.  However, it's a singular event; Mir can take note of his failings and move on to the next event.  We'll see if he does, in fact, learn from his most recent mistakes.

Though Breen does admit in the article that live commentary is inherently difficult to perform well, I still believe he's too hard on MMA broadcasters.  I've watched countless hours of all types of sports programming, from football to auto racing.  There are more less-than-stellar commentators than truly notable ones in every sport that I've encountered.  Granted, the number of sportscasters with a solid working knowledge of mixed martial arts are few in number due the sport's comparatively short life and non-mainstream status.  This should remedy itself as the sport grows, but it will take time.  I fail to see any shortcut that will significantly speed this necessary process.

It's been suggested that the closed-in environment fostered by Zuffa is far worse than a scenario where another party - namely a network - performs the broadcasting duties.  Maybe, Zuffa employees are less inclined to cover aspects of an event that could reflect negatively on the parent company.  While there is some merit to this argument, I believe it to be largely overblown.  Conflicts of interest exist for commentators of all sports.  A member of the broadcast staff may be covering a team or an organization with which they've had a tangible relationship at some point.  The network could (and likely does) have a significant financial stake in the success of the sport or association that said network is covering.  Major League Baseball commentators routinely work directly for the teams.  I can't say it is the best scenario with regard to journalistic freedom and integrity.  It is, however, reality and likely a financial necessity. 

In fairness to the aforementioned argument, there are some things that Zuffa could, and should, change.  The handling of injuries is a good example though I don't see a so-called neutral broadcast team as being the panacea sought by many.  The bottom line is that there isn't a perfect setting with perfect people to fill broadcasting duties.  Trading one set of problems for another is nothing more than shuffling the deck.  We should require the best MMA coverage possible while also remembering that there will always be tradeoffs which make expert commentary at every telecast event nothing more than a pipe dream.

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Mir was also in love with Jeff Curran in that fight with Benavidez…you would have thought Curran was steamrolling Benavidez from listening to Mir talk…we were talking about it during the open thread at my spot…

http://www.mmaforreal.com

by Kelvin Hunt on Apr 7, 2009 8:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

True.

I guess the Torres fight, being last and much longer, overshadowed it in terms of Mir sounding like a cheerleader. It just wasn’t a good night for Mir.

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 7, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glad this was brought up

I couldn’t help but wonder during the fight why Frank was so all over Torres’ Jock.

The thing I kept thinking was the amount of push that Zuffa has put behind building Torres into a star. I think this does ultimately undermind the credibility of an announcer/organization.

On a related note:

On UFC unleashed last week they replayed the Tito/Machida fight. During that telecast, Mike Goldberg kept making references to how “Tito Ortiz was once one of the best LHW’s in the World.” and “That was a long long time ago” quotes.
I couldn’t help but think that Goldberg was mandated to minimalize Tito Ortiz at every turn. It bothered me that it might very well be the case.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Apr 7, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind, though, that this is the same announcer who once called Travis Lutter the Michael Jordon of jiu jitsu (and that’s a bunch of shit, because we all know that Damian Maia is and he’s going to wreck Anderson Silve AM I RITE!?!). His hyperbole tends to get away from him.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think mir is good.. real good..

his kinda partial to miguel torres, and to a cetain extent its forgivable.. but harris is even worse, especially when he calls faber fights..

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 7, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

correct me if im wrong, but mir has trained with torres right?

so maybe there’s where the bias comes from.. and if so, then it’s pretty forgivable in my opinion..

Also, small promotions usually have commentators that are a bit partial to their stars in order to market them better and to get more recognition.. And since the WEC is from zuffa too, we tend to forget that the WEC really isn’t that Huge yet.. so i think its normal for this to happen and it’s not really a cause for anyone to panic or get bothered by it.

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 7, 2009 8:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"so maybe there’s where the bias comes from.. and if so, then it’s pretty forgivable in my opinion..

It is forgivable like it is not a sin or anything, but Mir is supposed to be doing a job not cheerleading for his buddies. I always love Mir’s perspective & comments on most fights but this calling it for the home team is nothing new for him. He has been doing the same thing for Faber and many other guys in WEC. It is great for him to have inside info from knowing or training with these guys, but he has got to learn that when he is calling their fight he needs to approach it a little more from the outside just to avoid that appearance of impropriety.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with what you are saying, but

what exactly is the impropriety that he may be creating the appearance of?

He’s commentating, not refereeing or judging.

But again, I agree that it would be nice to have commentators that are a bit more even handed in craft. Sometimes it comes from just have more familiarity with one fighter over another, especially when its a new foreign fighter…take the last Kos fight for example.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We all know the commentators are employed

by Zuffa & that is fine. But to appear professional & unbiased is a major part of looking legitimate. He is not refereeing or judging, that is true. But his job is to call the action down the middle & give insight.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Mir is selling Torres

WEC needs more than one big star (Faber). Mir builds Torres up and has been doing so for his last three fights. It’s buisness. Torres is a great champ and really good fighter but unless Mir says the stuff he does Torres is just another great fighter. Mir has said, “Torres’ training borders on mythology.” “If I had to pick someone who could surive in the jungle with nothing but a knife, rambo style, I’d pick Torres.” I think the question is, Would Torres be as praised by fans if Mir didn’t build him up?

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Apr 7, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you that he is building Torres up & I have no

problem with him doing that. But Mir has to learn to separate that part from the actual calling of the fight to be legit. Every organization wants to put their champs over, but to make a great show you need to have the guys calling it to not appear completely biased against the opponent. If the opponent does win then what have they accomplished? The fans watching that did not know about the opponent before have no idea now about him.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this, if for no other reason than the weird slant that Rashad’s commentary gave to the Rampage-Jardine fight. Watching it with the sound off was a completely different experience. It was like the reverse situation: the less-known guy who was the underdog was made out like he should have been – and was – tooling the guy who everyone else expected to win. It made for such an uncomfortable broadcast, and really detracted from rather than adding to the fight.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, this just makes me appreciate the job

Randy does when he is in there.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely. I pine for Randy openly.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair,

more people than just Mir have been building Torres up. ESPN Live, Yahoo, etc…have all been growing more and more fond of him in the last year.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is a problem that will somewhat take care of itself over time

After a generation of fighters retire, some will inevitably migrate to certain support function in the sport; trainers, judges, refs and also commentary.

However, this is not an MMA only issue, I can recall that Troy Aikman has recieved a fair amount of criticism for how he handles calling Dallas Cowboy games. A few other former players have recieved similar criticism when covering teams that they played for.

So Mir being a bit preferential towards a fighter he trains with is not that out of the ordinary. Perhaps Zuffa should have a rule against commentators working when they have a relationship with on the fighters in a bout. Given the movement within the industry, though, that might be a spiderweb of trouble enforcing.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We can all agree that it is better than the days of Jim Brown.

by GroundNPound561 on Apr 7, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Goldberg & Rogan

First, I agree it wasn’t entirely on Mir. The WEC announcing team together completely blew that fight. Before the fight even began they built it up as a tremendous mismatch, and through the entire fight missed call after call. Time and time again Mizugaki was effective against Torres, but the announcing team gave absolutely no play by play, only to pounce on any mild activity from Torres. It was a great fight, with epic back and forth action, but the announcing tainted the fight.

Am I the only one who thinks Goldberg & Rogan do a great job? Sure, Goldberg shows his naivete sometimes, and Rogan needs to correct him, but how many of us are truly experts on every minutia of the sport? Together they call the action in an exciting fashion, provide good technical context, and lend their voices to the viewing enjoyment of the fight. I think the absence of either of them would lessen the product, Rogan more so than Goldberg, but they both do an excellent job in their respective roles as color and play-by-play.

by Meeaaat on Apr 7, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Goldberg annoys me a little bit sometimes

but I like Rogan alot. However, he is not immune to the “I’m friends with this fighter, so I’ll focus on them” bug.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Karo, in case you weren’t aware, is as strong as a chimp.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

You don’t understand how missed you were

by subo on Apr 7, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Goldberg's not naive.

Rogan has said many times that Goldberg does that to setup an explanation from Rogan. It’s the easiest way to educate the average watcher.

by Deo Wade on Apr 7, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he is dumb – or is he getting things flat-out wrong to set up an explanation from Joe? :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, he is there to look retarded &

make Joe look like a genius!!

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of these days I’m hoping that Mike will get sick of taking crap from Joe and just bring up the moon landing or something to make Joe seem like a nutcase on the air. :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Man, his knee was about to snap, crackle and pop in there – like Kellogg’s Rice Krispies, right Joe?”

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“FUCK kellogs man! they don’t appreciate the value of the stoner dollar!”

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 7, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

THIS

Goldberg and Rogan are very very underrated. Bas Ruten is extremely overrated. Mir is talented for a fighter, but deficient as a broadcaster. This post has it right though about the paucity of good commentators in our sport, though I believe that will change in the next 5 years as the first generation of young fans enters career-age and the sport continues to grow in amateur leagues where the inexperienced commentator can practice his or her craft.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Apr 7, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that we are all spoiled by

the job Randy does as a broadcaster. He is the only fighter/broadcaster that can eloquently call a fight unbiased no matter his relationship to the fighter. Mir struggles with finding the words he wants to use to explain something & at times sounds very uneducated.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think tainted is the perfect way to describe that. A classic fight, but the play by play was so skewed it was distracting.

Maybe for next time they should each pick a fighter to watch.

by harbourmc on Apr 7, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bias

I just can’t stomach the unnecessary bias. I hate watching fights like Torres/Mizugaki…Miz was putting up one hell of a fight and nobody would have known by the commentary. Like I stated on an earlier comment, Rogan and Goldberg wouldn’t shut up about Koscheck until he got put out by Paulo Thiago. It was embarrassing to watch. There is no reason to be bias, guys. Everyone who watches your product knows the big names. We know how good Miguel Torres is…now give the guy who is standing toe to toe with him not backing down some props. I’m surprised they don’t refer to Mike Brown as “not Urijah Faber”.

by BlinkFenix2000 on Apr 7, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

To be fair,

Thiago looked like crap until he pulled that uppercut on Kos.

Even more, Kos’s stand has evolved light years from when he entered the UFC…which is what they were focusing on…because they knew next to nothing about Thiago.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with everything you say, but I’d also note that Mike started comparing Kos to Chuck Liddel… They were on the right road, but way over the speed limit.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With That Being Said...

I think Mike Goldberg, Joe Rogan, Frank Mir and even Todd Harris do a good job. You don’t realize how good they are until you watch some of the older promotions and smaller shows. Joe Rogan is one of the best MMA minds out there, and it really burns me when people criticize him. Just quit the nut hugging gentlemen…

by BlinkFenix2000 on Apr 7, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

And you also realize how poor Goldberg and Harris are when you watching someone like Jim Lampley.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 7, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This reminded me of the Sherk/Griffin

fight where Goldberg the entire fight went on & on about how Sherk’s striking was “so improved” & looked SOOO good. I was watching that fight had to mute the broadcast just to enjoy it.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not new for Mir...

Mir does this just about every broadcast and it is sickening. It’s either someone he has trained with or a WEC poster-boy that he takes sides with. He’s not bad if he could just stay objective and neutral. Even when Evans sat in on the Jardine vs. Rampage fight, he was not as lopsided as Mir.

by Bruiser on Apr 7, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

'Even when Evans sat in on the Jardine vs. Rampage fight, he was not as lopsided as Mir"

I was with you until that last line.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way

Rashad damn near ruined that fight for me. Rashad had no business in that booth. Mir is a professional commentator selling a product. Rashad is a fighter/team-mate of Jardine and his commentating was so lopsided that I nearly forgot who Jardine was fighting.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Apr 7, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once again an article on how evil Zuffa is.

by The_Vig on Apr 7, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah – the fact that they have the best broadcasters means nothing since those broadcasters aren’t perfect. What a bunch of assholes.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Which does nothing to change the fact that everyone at BE is a ZUFFA DRONE!!!111

Sorry, couldn’t resist. It’s all the rage on the internet these days.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone? So why are you complaining? :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got me. I have no answer. My head may explode in a puff of logic.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More likely you’ll die at a zebra crossing.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 8, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you get that out of the above?

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 7, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where?

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Apr 7, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see it, and if fucking I don’t see it, it ain’t there.

Of course, thinking it was 50-45 when two judges had it 49-46 isn’t unforgivable.

by subo on Apr 7, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, but if you’d been listening to that commentary on the radio you would have assumed it was more like 50-40.

by FRANKIE on Apr 7, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mir is all right but he really “gots” work work on his English. He “gots” him against the cage. He “gots” underhooks. And yeah, he was way too into Torres to call the fight as it should’ve been called.

But nobody is worse than Goldberg…so bad the mute button gets some work. When you can train a small child to do the work of a grown man, there’s an issue. Some people like him…but then again, some people like watching stuff like Survivor. To each her own.

by The Real T-Bone on Apr 7, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that Mir is a good example for demonstrating that there are multiple facets to intelligence. The guy obviously knows a lot about the fight game – more than he can even talk about on the air, and he’s obviously incredibly smart about going for submissions on the fly (the recent video that turned up showing how he was going for a calf slicer on Lesnar that he turned into a knee-bar illustrates that well). This is a very smart guy. Analytical, creative, practical? That’s Frank.

But the guy isn’t verbal.

He gets his subject-verb agreement wrong, he makes up new words (disagree-ance is my favorite) on the fly when he can’t remember the right one, and he stumbles through his commentary a bit. There’s no shame in that.

As for getting caught up in a fight and rooting for the guy he knows – that’s just par for the course. Listen to the local radio guys calling a baseball game if you want to hear the worst examples, or listen to a football game being called by one of the guys who used to play or coach for one of the teams. Can anyone but a Steelers fan stand to listen to Terry Bradshaw talk about a Steelers game?

Besides which – would you trade him for famous broadcasters in other sports? John Madden announces during every game that 3 out of 5 players on the field are among the top 10 most underrated in the league. Boom!

Frank isn’t perfect – but the real problem is that he’s in charge of every single bit of commentary except:

  • “Man he’s setting a furious pace – like our current/former champ Uriah Faber!”
  • “If they don’t stay busy in this position, the ref will stand them up – we like our fighters to push the pace!”
  • “Pace pace, Crank 2, pace pace Faber pace!”

I say give Frank a break. Or do a live internet radio show and let us all listen to your attempt. :-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

I agree with you & would not have written something like this

because this truly is a very hard job. But I wanted to comment about how Randy makes it look so easy that we think everyone should be able to do it.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy is a guy with a unique career trajectory – his college years and his time in the military certainly meant he had to get more polished with his speaking than Frank – but I don’t know if I’d want to hear him calling a match with one of his Extreme Couture guys in it. Time will tell.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that Randy's background is what makes him so good,

but I think that a lot of us expect any fighter brought into the booth to perform the same as him. I think that hearing him call a Chuck fight gives us all of the insight that we need into how he could call someone who trained in his gym.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot one:
  • “These fighters have tremendous respect for each other”

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 7, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is true but...

when a commentator spends the broadcast praising one fighter you are showing a lot of dis-respect for the other fighter.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Apr 7, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“…And each other’s pace.”

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am giving Frank a break.

I think he was clearly off his game. Don’t conflate what I said with what Breen said. He’s been beating this drum for a while.

I would suck as a radio/tv host or personality. The only reason that I’m serviceable as a writer on this site is because I can re-read the crap I write. Even after a lot of proofing, I’m not close to being satisfied with what I’ve done.

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 7, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do not believe that anyone expects perfection from Frank

or any other broadcaster for that matter. But this is not an isolated incident for him. This has become the norm for his broadcasts & it is something that he should work on. Make no mistake, what these guys do is extremely hard to come up with interesting & insightful stuff off the cuff, but they need to at least make the attempt to be as unbiased as possible.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I basically agree.

It’s tough for Mir, because he can concentrate on being the best broadcaster possible. He’s still a top fighter who happens to be fighting Lesnar in a title fight. I’m not making excuses for him, but I think his status as an active fighter will continue to hold him back in the commentating department. For now, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and believe he’ll improve. Really, I’m not criticizing his delivery or anything of that nature. I’m simply pointing out his perceived bias.

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how does him being an active fighter

lend him to being biased for particular fighers in his broadcast? His delivery, while he could work on his use of the English language, is not that a big a deal for me either. But just like Goldie being on Sherk’s nuts every time he fights, Mir seems to do the same thing for the fighters he is close to. A little bit of this is no big deal in a broadcast, but when you are calling the fight incorrectly based on that biased (like Rashad or Goldie) then it becomes an issue.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know if it does. However, if he could devote more time to learning his role as commentator then Mir might be able to better minimize the show of bias during fights.

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 7, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec’d except for the line at the end because I’m not sure who it was directed towards and thus don’t know if I agree.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Apr 7, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You. I was talking to you. MAN UP, RICHARD.

:-)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not so good with pronouns.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Apr 7, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He either.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 8, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The bias problem

isn’t restricted simply to Frank Mir among Zuffa’s commentators. Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan are just as guilty of letting their own personal preference seep into their commentary. The Chuck Liddell vs. Wanderlei Silva fight is the most egregious example I can think of. You would’ve thought Chuck was putting on an Anderson Silva caliber striking clinic listening to the announcers.

by Andy R on Apr 7, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That is not true at all from the standpoint of Rogan.

Rogan absolutely loves Silva as much as he does Liddell & was going nuts for both fighters. If you watched that fight you would say that Liddell dominated that fight. Maybe not Anderson Silva-esque, but he had Silva the whole way.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As bad as Mir was last weekend, and he was really bad, it doesn’t hold a candle to the utter announcing crapfest that was the last Sengoku show. Rice and Rutten were completely uninformed about the majority of the fighters, including tournament favorite Hatsu Hioki.

by FRANKIE on Apr 7, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thats because at this point they (Rice and Rutten) are just collecting a check

and could give a rats ass about the quality of their product.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why don’t you guys just watch these fights with the sound off. You would all be happier. I am perfectly happy with Rogan and Goldberg. I am perfectly happy with Mir and the other guy. Did you guys hear Jens Pulver working the mic a few weeks ago? That was horrible.

by The_Vig on Apr 7, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, if i could get the commentary on a separate track that I could mute I’d mute it. Watching fights with no sound at all is kind of crap though. I want to be able to hear the crowd, the kicks, the slams, and even the advice in the corners.

by FRANKIE on Apr 7, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Frank sometimes comes off as a cheerleader, and I do think he needs to dial it down a bit, especially when his commentary starts to detract from the fight. I mean, when he’s cheerleeding, and it’s completely different than what you’re seeing, it gets distracting and can take away from a fight. When I was watching the WEC event, there were a bunch of times when I was like, “What is Frank saying? What’s fight is he watching?” For the most part though, I think Frank does a fine job. He knows so much about the sport, I can understand how he can get so passionate about a certain fighter.

by pud333 on Apr 7, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mir was a joke...

Sorry , people are being too nice here , that commentating was a sad joke , it actually made me so angry I stopped watching by round 4 …I mean it’s round 3 or 4 , It’s obvious Mizugaki won at least 2 rounds , and Mir is saying something like Mizugaki has to do something he’s clearly losing the fight??? WHAT ? Are we watching the same fight here ?! I get it , they’re friends , Mir likes to promote his buddy , but what the hell . It’s disrespecting the viewers intelligence what he did , he thinks people won’t notice what the hell he’s trying to do ?

by JoelMan on Apr 7, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And call me crazy I think Mizugaki won

I’ve watched the fight untill round 3 and (in my humble opinion) Mizugaki didn’t lose a single round , hence he should have won on my book (well , unless Torres scored a couple of 10-8 but that’s not really likely ). A rematch is in order !! With better commentators and better judges..

by JoelMan on Apr 7, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you turned that fight off, that says a lot about you.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Apr 7, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And call me crazy I think Mizugaki won

I stopped reading after this. And yes, You = Crazy!

*stamps [FAIL] on your post

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Apr 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This post, on the other hand, I can’t agree with. I had Mizugaki winning rounds 1 and 3, but losing the rest. I would like a rematch though.

by FRANKIE on Apr 7, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree with this post.

by FRANKIE on Apr 7, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eddie Bravo

I’ve only caught a couple of fights that he was brought in for, but what was the general consensus on his broadcasting?

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There are no generals here.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Apr 7, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The E-4 consensus is that he was fine. Not great.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, pretty much. He had some interesting analysis, some pointless analysis, and he needed to cut back on the caffeine and/or get high before hand. Otherwise it was like he was speaking in all caps.

“Let’s go to Eddie Bravo’s score card. Eddie”

“WELL GUYS IT WAS A CLOSE ROUND BUT I SCORED IT 10-9 BY VIRTUE OF THE crackleCRACKfizzzPOP” and my speakers would usually break at that point.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This happens in every sport.

I don’t see this as being that big a deal. While watching any sport at any time you hear announcers being biased towards certain guys or certain teams all the time.

I’ll watch a Cards/Cubs game on Fox Sports Midwest. At the same time that game is showing on Comcast Sports Chicago. I like to switch back and forth after big plays to hear the different view points about the play. When you get close plays at the bases the clear biases in commentary from the two channels is quite apparent.

by mattman73 on Apr 7, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but there’s no other channel to switch to for WEC shows.

by FRANKIE on Apr 7, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know, as a fun alternative

the Premier League has this deal where they allow two fans (one of each team) to do play by play/commentary of a game and broadcast it.

Once you get over the accents, its pretty hillarious to hear to fans shit talking each other during the game. Might be a funny twist for MMA once in a while.

by Razreshat on Apr 7, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So I have to ask i’m I the only one that finds people bashing Mir for being biased on MMA blods funny?, because considering the fact that many of these people are as biased as they come the irony can’t be lost on everyone else I hope.

by Raker on Apr 7, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

People discussing Mir's defiencies as a broadcaster on an MMA "Blod"

is ironic? What are we biased about?

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Irony: Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs

By this definition, hypocritical behavior on blogs is NEVER IRONIC. I mean, what else do you expect on the Internet?

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 7, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

There’s no excuse for a professional fighter to call a whizzer a “wizard” and there’s no excuse for a professional broadcaster to pronounce Mizugaki as “Massacky”.

Dude has really bad biases but so does everyone else in the business so you can’t really single him out for that.

by George Lucas on Apr 7, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree that this article should not be focused soley on Mir,

but he and Goldie are really the only two mainstream ones that come to mind so it would be a short list.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 7, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s not “focused solely on Mir.” Mir’s difficulties were timely, and that’s why Breen and Mike wrote about the issue. I took it further, because I believed it’s an important and interesting debate. I’m certainly not looking to single out anyone. Honestly, I don’t like focusing criticism on any one person at any time unless it’s damn close to unavoidable. I’ve read this thing so many times that I’m quite sure of what it says. I may not be a skilled enough writer to communicate my points as expertly as others can, but I don’t see the analysis as being unfair to anyone.

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 7, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I watched the fight again and Harris had NOTHING to do with Mir’s brutally biased commentary.

There were moments where Harris actually tried to talk about Mizugaki, only to have Mir follow up with more Torres cheerleading.

I can’t recall a more biased performance. Maybe Bonnar cheering for Forrest, but he is not a regular announcer.

By all means, let us discuss the shortcomings is MMA announcing these days, but to defend Mir, or attempt to make excuses for him, is rediculous.

by Lynchman on Apr 7, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Harris is awful most of the time, but I thought he did an admirable job of trying to reign Mir in on Sunday.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 7, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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