Clip of the Day: Aoki vs. Mach

by Chris Nelson on Apr 5, 2009 8:58 AM EDT in News Comment 85 comments

More of the best fights from DREAM.8 after the jump. Full play-by-play and results here.

Jason High vs. Yuya Shirai

Jeff Monson vs. Sergei Kharitonov

0 recs | Comment 85 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

OMG!!!!!

thats all I have to say.

by miss_mma on Apr 5, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow. just … wow.

by bobthewriter on Apr 5, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

and another thing ...

does the WAMMA belt go to Mach now? lol

by bobthewriter on Apr 5, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

oh wait ...

there’s no belt for that weight class. i forgot.

by bobthewriter on Apr 5, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not much of a champ now, although how much of a champ are you really with a WAMMA belt around your waist.?

by miss_mma on Apr 5, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think they actually ever gave him a belt, heck WAMMA didn’t even send a representative to the event where Aoki won it.

by who me on Apr 5, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They were told they wouldn't be allowed in the ring...

so what was the point of sending someone.

Yeah…their wonderful “friendly relationship” with DREAM

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That right there was the death knell of WAMMA to the logical mind – DREAM won’t let you give him the belt, but you do it anyway. UFC won’t let you give anyone the belt, and you give them the finger.

Schmart.

by subo on Apr 5, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve always wondered if WAMMA’s decision was done from a standpoint of if Eddie Alvarez won they could give him a belt in the states and push him in his fights here. Is Monte Cox involved in WAMMA?

by who me on Apr 5, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WAMMA is a joke. This proves it even more. Aoki was never even the #1 Lightweight when he got that “Title Shot”.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 5, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that was kind of my point. :-)

by bobthewriter on Apr 5, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now smoogy, gif that backflip guard pass.

by SamCupitt on Apr 5, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m sure smoogy will come with some better ones, but I did these for now…

And with that, I’m off to ~~sleep~~ coma until WEC 40 starts.

by Chris Nelson on Apr 5, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Okay one more...

by Chris Nelson on Apr 5, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was dangerous as hell for his nuts. Two feets were really close to KTFO any chances of having children.

by spectaa on Apr 5, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good thing I picked Mach.

by "Mr. NC-17" on Apr 5, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by Chris Nelson on Apr 5, 2009 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The guys fighting in Japan at Lightweight continue to show how overrated they are. Just compare how they do against Welterweights.

BJ Penn – Went 4 rounds with GSP, and the first round was close.
Sean Sherk – Only two losses at Welterweight were to Hughes (5 rounds), and GSP.

Compare to that Shinya Aoki who can’t last 30 seconds against Sakurai. The same Sakurai who got wrecked by Gomi, and is really just an undersized Welterweight. And then Eddie Alvarez, who got beat down by Nick Thompson.

I think this is just another piece of the puzzle, but I hope people finally stop overhyping Shinya Aoki. He has gotten beaten down by Hayato Sakurai and Joachim Hansen in the last year. And his No Contest to JZ could have been a loss, as those strikes didn’t look illegal to me.

Basically, the guy is a walking KO risk. Very one dimensional. He would get eaten alive in the UFC without his fancy pants and with the quality of fighters who compete there.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 5, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

this isn't MMAth it's MMACalculus

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Kid Nate on Apr 5, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

:-)

I like it because he obviously put more effort into it.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Apr 5, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, it confused the fuck out of me. I’m going to get another cup of coffee and solve for y again.

Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.

by Heenan on Apr 5, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Fine, want some MMAth?

Gray Maynard dominated Jim Miller. Jim Miller dominated David Baron. David Baron dominated Hayato Sakurai. Hayato Sakurai dominated Shinya Aoki.

Gray Maynard > Shinya Aoki

And BJ Penn or Sean Sherk or Kenny Florian > Gray Maynard

Lightweights in Japan = Overated!!

Better?

by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 5, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I expect Aoki to retain his #1 ranking at MMAWeekly.

by cyph on Apr 5, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

to be fair I don’t think fights outside of your division should impact your rating within that division. It didn’t impact my personal ranking of Penn when he lost to GSP, it won’t impact my personal ranking of Aoki now that he lost at WW. It’s a slippery slope trying to compare who lost better when figuring out rankings.

Then again no one cares about my personal ranking spreadsheet…so maybe I’m just wrong

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it’s different here.

GSP has never competed at Lightweight. Ever.

Hayato Sakurai competed at Lightweight in Pride. And he really is just an undersized Lightweight. He has fights against Gomi, Hansen, Aoki, Baron, Edwards, and other Lightweights. Enough for this fight to have meaning in the Lightweight Division.

I understand what you are saying. And the majority of times it applies. But in this case, with Sakurai’s history, it kind of does have an effect.

I’m sure people will disagree with me, but that is how I view it.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 5, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No no no. Fight’s outside the division have no effect regardless of who the opponent is.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 5, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So if Wanderlei Silva beats Rich Franklin at 195 lbs, it has no meaning for Middleweight? I would disagree. I wouldn’t automatically rank Silva in the Top 10, but if he then beat a Top 20 Middleweight in his next fight, I would definitely keep the Franklin fight in mind for the ranking, especially with Franklin’s history in the division.

To me, it’s kind of how this Aoki/Sakurai fight went. It might not be an exact rankings measure. But it definitely pushes public perception in the direction that Lightweights in Japan aren’t top of the food chain compared to their UFC counterparts. And so instead of guys like Alvarez and Aoki being in the Top 3 for many rankings, perhaps it should be guys like Sherk and Florian.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 5, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those 10 lbs are huge...

it doesn’t show that he’d be able to carry whatever strength/cardio..etc down with him those extra 10 lbs.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s just generally preferable as a rule not to draw conclusions about a weight class based on things that happen outside that division. I’ll admit there’s mitigating factors here, but just look at Mach and Aoki side-by-side (not to mention the manner in which Mach reversed him) and tell me that the size/strength differential wasn’t a factor in the outcome of this fight.

by LBo on Apr 5, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My point was that it did effect Penn’s ranking from #1 to #2 after his loss to GSP at MMAWeekly. CroCop is ranked higher than Brock Lesnar there.

by cyph on Apr 5, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MMA Weekly’s rankings blow then.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 5, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

...more like blatantly biased and one sided ala WAMMA.

by cyph on Apr 5, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I'm not defending them...

their rankings have been bad for a while now. I’m just saying that it SHOULDN’T impact

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

by subo on Apr 5, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, ‘cause your math works. What about Light Heavy’s? Wanderlei dominates Rampage, Rampage KO’s Chuck, Chuck beats Rampage? That doesn’t work. Just becuase A beats B, does not mean A beats C. We’ve just seen to many examples of your calculations getting thrown out the fricken arbitrary window.

by bubbafat on Apr 5, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But...

let’s not forget that fightmatrix showed that more often than not MMA Math turns out to be right.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd, but...

It works more often than not, but it’s still overly simplistic analysis.

by Richard Wade on Apr 5, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I agree. I was just throwing it out there because it’s fun to bug people with that fact.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Maynard probably could beat Aoki. Maynard’s a huge 155er with very good wrestling and developing standup.

by Richard Wade on Apr 5, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its easier to be differential than it is to integrate.

Keep firing Assholes!

by Ubernoober on Apr 5, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention...

…. the “Sergei would dominate the UFC HW’s” fans…

by Loot on Apr 5, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

:-(

I still like Kharitonov.

by subo on Apr 5, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have people forgotten that Penn was the UFC Welterweight champion at one time too?

by who me on Apr 5, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That makes me smile.

I will play my game beneath the spin light.
Absurd Meridian

by Eugene Schelfaut on Apr 5, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I had a grin that wouldn’t go away for hours.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 5, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

one other thing ...

Monson is a freakin’ monster when he’s motivated.

by bobthewriter on Apr 5, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He still has his limitations. That single leg didn’t work against Tim Sylvia. It wouldn’t work against Brock Lesnar or Randy Couture.

Still, he is definitely making a case for him to be ranked Top 10. There were rumors he might be back in the UFC. It would be a nice addition.

As for Sergei…. It was a pitiful performance. He came in looking chubby, and looked clueless on the ground.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 5, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

he looked pretty heavy honestly.

I still have trouble with Monson seeing as how he was given a gift decision over Nelson not long ago, but it was a good showing.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing that struck me as awesome… Nelson cornered Monson. Pretty sweet if you ask me.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Apr 5, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that was pretty cool. My opinion of him has been rising since the Arlovski fight.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 5, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too, and I never thought I’d say that.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Apr 5, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damnit, should have stayed up to see this. Would have been worth it.

Majic pants fail. :)

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Apr 5, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this = Aoki/Mach

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Apr 5, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MACH!

YES YES YES YES YES!

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 5, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m so fricken happy right now! :D

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Apr 5, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I concur.

by pud333 on Apr 5, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m wondering if my smile is gonna be permanent.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 5, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m glad Aoki lost. There aren’t many fighters I just don’t like but magic-pants is one of them. Nice to see Mach club him like a seal (with his knees).

by pr0cs on Apr 5, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

mach-aoki = brutal

by kotif on Apr 5, 2009 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Go go Mach!

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 5, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The sound those knees made on his skull

Ugh. No give whatsoever. You could almost see a single grade of his education fly out the other ear with each hit. Great win by Sakurai though.

by LBo on Apr 5, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

by banter on Apr 5, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

UFC: knees to grounded opponents

I’m surprised more people haven’t brought it up after seeing the destruction of Aoki here… but this is a fine example of why I think the unified rules should bring in knees to grounded opponents. There are certain positions that a grounded opponent can take advantage of where they know they’re safe because their opponents can’t throw knees. From a “purity of the sport”-perspective, I’d like to see them allowed. It prevents some of these silly looking positions that wouldn’t work in a real fight. We’re not talking soccer kicks here, those knees are no more powerful than knees from the clinch.

by Meeaaat on Apr 5, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I completely agree with that. It doesn’t make sense that knees on the ground are banned, but knees from the muay thai clinch are allowed.

One cool thing from Mach/Aoki- one of the commentators (Kid, I believe) immediately recognized that Aoki was in a bad position and he was about to get pounded on. As soon as Mach reverses the position he’s like “ooohh, ooohh, ooohh” (that’s what she said) and the knees immediately follow.

by BilboMcFonzie on Apr 5, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could see it coming, almost in slow motion.

As an Aoki fan, it was tough to watch Mach trying to pin down Aoki’s head, ‘cause you knew what was coming and that Aoki didn’t see it at all. After that first knee connected, I knew it was a wrap.

by Chris Nelson on Apr 5, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want this, but the politics of getting them added just don’t add up.

by subo on Apr 5, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Dana White has said he would be for knees on the ground before, it’s just not going to happen though.

by who me on Apr 5, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that the politics make it difficult. Introducing new rules that allow for more offense could pose a liability if a fighter were to get hurt because of the new rule. It’s still something I’d like though. Anything that brings us closer to the realities of a real fight has my vote, as long as it can be done within the context of reasonable fighter safety.

I hadn’t heard Dana saying he was for knees to the ground. I remember GSP saying that was the one rule he’d like to see added though. I’d be all for it. It’d increase the chances for TKO stoppages too, which fans would appreciate.

by Meeaaat on Apr 5, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be for knees like this

e.g. from one grounded opponent to another, but from a standing opponent to a grounded one is too far.

The Pride style soccer kicks and stomps is too much too. It would never fly with the U.S. audience, and for good reason.

by Razreshat on Apr 5, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fighters will be smart. Standing knees to grounded opponents won’t happen blindly because fighters will know of their threat, and will do their best to avoid positions where they can occur… positions which they currently abuse because they know they can’t be kneed. We can do away with tactics that would make no sense in a real fight, like standing bent over with a hand on the mat just to stay within the rules to avoid a knee. I don’t know about you, but I cringe every time I see that sort of thing. I say bring on the knees everywhere.

by Meeaaat on Apr 5, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A reporter mentioned that the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board might be interested in legalizing knees to the head on the ground in MMA, and asked if White thinks the Nevada State Athletic Commission would follow suit if that were to happen. White said, “Probably, because it was New Jersey that didn’t want knees to the head before.” White has previously stated on multiple occasions that he would personally like to see knees to the head on the ground legalized in MMA.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3799&zoneid=1

by who me on Apr 5, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should have read this before I posted. v v v

my bad.

"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"

by RearNakedChoker on Apr 5, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah we most likely won’t get them though. Regulated MMA has gone on without knees to the ground and theres been little to no substantial injuries, the athletic commissions aren’t going to want to fuck that up by adding something you can do. They might take shit away, but they aren’t going to add stuff.

by SamCupitt on Apr 5, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah...

Mach called it.

by Chris Nelson on Apr 5, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The earthworm comment is awesome.

by pud333 on Apr 5, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I fell asleep during the broadcast! NOOOOO! I have failed you!

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Apr 5, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

At least you realize the error of your ways. ;-)

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 5, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I notice in DREAM

That a lot of guys are foregoing mount and taking side control instead to get those knees to the head. Anyone have any injury stats on DREAM? How would y’all feel about knees to the head in the UFC, Strikeforce. etc.

I for one would like to see it, if the injury rates don’t skyrocket.

"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"

by RearNakedChoker on Apr 5, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They'd be great

And they’d give people able to maintain top position a whole new weapon to use – think Lesnar being able to knee Herring in the head, not just the side. It’s just not an argument we can make at the same time we’re trying to get the sport recognized and regulated everywhere. The video of Aleksander v Kharitonov alone will end the argument before it gets started.

by subo on Apr 5, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs