UFC Learns Wrong Lesson From Scandal
by Michael Rome on Apr 3, 2009 1:39 PM EDT
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The UFC is responding to the scandal over Dana White's video blog by scaling down his public persona and interaction with the media. According to Dave Meltzer there will be no more video blogs, less stuff with the press, and no reality show.
The war over the word "faggot" has completely distracted everyone from the main issue here, which is the way Dana White responded to Loretta Hunt doing what he thought was an unfair story. Loretta wrote a story with quotes from anonymous managers to support the idea that it was wrong for the UFC not to let them backstage. She contacted the UFC for their side, but of course they didn't give her anything because Sherdog is on the "banned" list. Then she puts together a story that comes off one-sided, and Dana White goes nuts. This entire thing could have been avoided if they ran their media department professionally, called Loretta back, and gave her their side of the story the way every other serious company would.
White slammed anonymous sources, but realistically speaking, would you give your name if the guy in charge of your destiny had a temper like the one we saw on the video blog? The UFC controls over 90% of MMA revenue, if they blackball a manager, his career in the sport is effectively dead. There was very good reason to remain anonymous.
The real lesson they should have learned is not to operate their media department Soviet style. By picking and choosing "acceptable" journalists and boycotting the rest, they created a media situation where they either get ridiculously favorable puff pieces or complete hit pieces from banned press. Dana rapidly turned himself into a Nixon-style figure with press friends and enemies, mostly the latter.
Now that newspapers are dying, these UFC events have very few journalists covering them. It's the same group of regulars, you hear them at every press conference, and it creates a kind of backslapping friendliness that undermines healthy coverage of the sport. Loretta deserves all the criticism in the world for appearing in that ridiculous Lindland documentary, but the response shouldn't be to ban her and go after her personally if she gets something wrong.
White backing away from the public eye is a boon in the very short term, and a huge loss in the long term if he stays out of the public eye. People that want a PR firm handling things in a professional manner for the UFC really don't grasp that this is the sport of fighting, and that the only attention it has is because White has pounded the pavement to demand it. When Kimbo Slice was exposed, and various mainstream press tried to tie his failure to MMA, Dana White did the work of an army to try to save the sport from that association. A sport like this needs a loud and passionate advocate that won't take no for an answer.
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Agreed on all accounts. This is exactly what I feared would happen in the aftermath. I hope that Dana will take a step back, collect his thoughts, and reemerge into the public eye in the near future.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Apr 3, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You do?
Maybe I’m mistaking something, but when I floated the idea of the UFC responding to Hunt’s request for information, I think I recall you disagreeing. Am I getting that wrong?
I'm still there
Sorry, Rome, but I completely disagree – the problem here was the language, not the fact that he didn’t respond to the piece. Dana’s declared war on Sherdog, it happened awhile ago, and frankly, it’s his right to decide which media organs to cooperate with and which not to. What he doesn’t get to do is call his detractors fucking pussy faggot bitches. Not anymore.
And if they have to lock him in a cage to accomplish that, then so be it.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
About where I’m at. My suggestion is more broad, regarding media relations. They need to exhibit more professionalism in their PR department. I don’t want Dana to eliminate his candor, or leave the public eye. But they could do with some good cop, bad cop between his commentary and that or an active, official PR representative. For instance, Dana still comes across as passionate, but much more professional, when discussing matters such as GSP greasing and refereeing mistakes.
As far as Sherdog goes, Loretta hasn’t done a whole lot to repair that relationship, so it’s something of an exception to the rule. I don’t think the UFC has an obligation to respond to every request for information, or every damaging article. Dana is an easy target to antagonize, being king shit of fuck mountain (+5 for anyone that can target that reference) and the UFC is vilified for being the largest and most successful MMA org in the world. People love them some underdogs, and it’s evident from some members of this very site that it’s still fashionable to hate someone for being successful; be it out of envy for any measure of success, or out of want for little David to sling a stone at goliath.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
The UFC doesn’t have to respond to every reporter’s questions, but if they refuse to provide their side of the story they’ve given up the right to expect a balanced piece.
The point of mine Luke is most probably referencing
Is that it is my belief that you have to draw the line somewhere as it concerns who do you readily respond to and for what nature of content? Do they say “we only readily and immediately respond to the likes of ESPN and CBS Sports” and does the content merit a reply? It’s clear that they both A) have a poor relationship with Sherdog/Hunt and B) they found the contents of her story to be ridiculous and that a response would be pandering an individual/site they hold in low regard.
So do I agree that it would have been more easily handled with an immediate and cordial response? Sure. Do I think it should have? No, I don’t. When you indulge one article you deem baseless, you’re essentially obligated to indulge them all. A lack of response going forward would indicate fault.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Mr. Show was amazing
And you’re right, people will always be throwing shit at Dana from the cheap seats. He has to handle it better, as it’s getting to the point (now that Strikeforce might have exclusive contracts and the UFC’s business model is clearly superior) that people are really trying to find shit to criticize. It’s like the rest of the MMA world knows Dana’s this close to locking down the sport forever, and they think this is their last chance to do it.
It ain’t gonna happen.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
+5
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
I’m almost eager to have you explain what the hell that means.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s getting to the point (now that Strikeforce might have exclusive contracts and the UFC’s business model is clearly superior) that people are really trying to find shit to criticize. It’s like the rest of the MMA world knows Dana’s this close to locking down the sport forever, and they think this is their last chance to do it.
It ain’t gonna happen.
That’s conspiratorial? I call it competitive capitalism – Dana’s trying to kill them, they’re trying to kill him.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
"I call it competitive capitalism – Dana’s trying to kill them, they’re trying to kill him."
Great line. America, America.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
“Competitive capitalism” is redundant. Inherent in a free market society is companies fighting over customers, which helps drive the prices down (Part of Adam Smith’s “Invisible Hand”).
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
(+5 for anyone that can target that reference
Dude! You are killing me. I know that I know where that came from but cannot put my finger on it. Spill it.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Subo beat you to it
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Oh well, he had the answer anyway.
gracias
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
If I’d been handling their PR I would’ve instantly recommended a moderate response to Hunt’s piece. Obviously I would have written something less inflamatory than the actual response in the vlog.
And if it is ‘his’ right to decide which media organs to cooperate with, it’s, by the same principle, his right to decide how to communicate with them. Perhaps you were speaking in terms of law?
I suppose I meant about the lesson learned and his disappearance from the public
Perhaps was suggestion that I agree on all accounts was too general. I’ve iterated my thoughts on their media relations, though, which I’ve repeatedly suggested need to improve. At the least, they need more specific and concrete methods of dealing with/responding to media, rather than seemingly shooting from the hip. So far as it concerns Loretta Hunt and Sherdog, though, they need to similarly alter their practices. It’s an ugly divorce between two stubborn lovers and the kids are suffering.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
I honestly think...
dana “scaling it back” just means “give even less to the online media.” I don’t think we’re going to see him out of the public eye much at all.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions
thats the impression that i got as well
it kind of sucks though, i really enjoyed the video blogs just so i could see the fighters and things a bit more outside of the cage. maybe theyll do a fighter video blog. But i doubt that.
im not impressed with your performance
If I was Dana
Id just say that if I call someone a “faggot,” i mean that they are a tobacco product and unhealthy for me.
im not impressed with your performance
Top of the morning to you governor. Care to light up a faggot with me and have a spot of tea. Then let’s take the trup round the horn to Bengal.
watchkalibrun.com
here here old boy
i find myself going arse over tit for you chap. we can get some bangers and mash and then have afters. perhaps a few bevvies with the mates? har har har
im not impressed with your performance
Cockney
Is strictly prohibited in these forums. It’s…. umm… in the rules somewhere.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
That’s not EVEN cockney. It’s bastard son of cockney.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks a lot guys
Now I have to stop working and go watch Lock Stock.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
-5
That’s Snatch!
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
This thread is now about awesome crime/thug movies.
My top 3:
Snatch
Layer Cake
Lock, Stock
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Godfather I & II count?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
i think he's aiming more for Guy Ritchie-esque flicks
but if we’re talking about entertainment with a thug/gangster/crime theme, then skip movies and go straight to the greatest television show of all time: The Wire.
Nothing better, and for sake of relevancy, several main characters are from the UK.
im not impressed with your performance
I’ve heard now from several people that the Wire is great. I’ll have to look into it. I’ve always loved “crime dramas” (isn’t there a better term for these movies/shows?). I grew up watching Hill Street Blues and NYPD Blue with my dad, who was a cop until he retired two years ago. It was fun watching with him because he was able to comment on everything they were doing with an eye to the realism (or lack of). Watching CSI with him was a riot because every time they ran a DNA test he’d lose his mind and start screaming about how expensive DNA tests are, and how if you ordered up that many, the chief of police would walk into your office, shoot you in the groin, spit on you, and leave…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I like La Femme Nikita – obviously a smaller budget than most, but since they couldn’t afford outrageous SFX, they put their money into things like writing and plot.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i had a similar relationship with my old man
he was a big city cop for decades, and he swears the wire is the most realistic cop show he’s ever seen, to the point where it taught him some things about how it works in other, bigger departments.
im not impressed with your performance
I'd also like to say...
one of the biggest lessons learned here? The PR staff is woefully unable to handle damage control. A policy of “just don’t call or e-mail anyone back” works fine with blogs but when every “major” place that covers it simply says “the UFC is not returning our calls” it looks a lot worse than “the UFC declined to comment at this time” or something similar.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions
Their only wise stroke was to make sure no news cycle passed before ‘White will apologize’ was attached to the story.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
"The PR staff is woefully unable to handle damage control"
They need to be fired as there should have been someone in place to say “NOOOOO!!! Dana you cannot call a female reporter a dumb fucking bitch & her anonymous source a faggot on your UFC blog” Every company has got to have someone functioning in this capacity especially when a loose cannon like Dana is at the helm.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 3, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You and I are on this same topic on a couple of
posts. I posted this same message on Wednesday, but reading your version of it reminded me of a cleared way to express it.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
cleared=clearer
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Honestly, I get a sense that this is only going to hurt the blogosphere’s ability to cover some of these events in the future, albeit they already get the blacklist for the most part.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
Mike,
Do you think there is a good reason for the UFC not to treat Sherdog like a responsible member of the MMA media? Could there be incidents in the past that have led them to come to the conclusion that trusting a Sherdog reporter may not be the best idea? Do you think that might also color the way the UFC treats Bloody Elbow and other MMA blogs?
It's pretty storied
With the final straw being their revelation of TUF results before they aired. There’s some bad blood on account of various indiscretions.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Exactly. So it is kind of disingenous to pretend Sherdog is an innocent player in all this. It’s like someone wondering why Tony Snow didn’t spend all his time correcting stories at Daily KOS.
I’m not sure what the “whole story” is, but outcasting Sherdog for spoiling The Ultimate Fighter is way over-the-top. They’re a news organization, they picked up some news, and reported it.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Of course there is more to it than that. Even then, it wasn’t a news organization reporting “news.” It was a calculated attack and denying that is pretty dishonest.
I suppose sackmikegoldberg.com is also the voice of the unbiased media? Nice hitjob on my Koscheck article by the way. That was a careful reading that captured the nuances of what I was saying nicely.
Like I said, I don’t know the whole Sherdog/Zuffa backstory. You’re more than welcome to enlighten the rest of us.
As for the TUF spoiler, I could care less if it’s a calculated attack or not. Sherdog (or any other news source) is under no obligation to withhold information for the benefit of Zuffa. If they didn’t want their show spoiled, they should have done a better job plugging up potential leaks. Just my opinion.
Not sure what SMG or your piece on Koscheck has to do with any of this.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yes, and Zuffa plugged the leaks to Sherdog by not talking to Sherdog. So your opinion is kind of all over the place. You don’t think the UFC should ban Sherdog from backstage. Yet you think the UFC should be more careful to keep information from Sherdog. Perhaps these things are connected?
sackingmikegoldberg…I’m glad to put a name to another anonymous internet “critic.”
Unless Josh Gross was at the tapings of the TUF fights, he was not the source of the leaks.
“sackingmikegoldberg…I’m glad to put a name to another anonymous internet "critic."”
What?
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
LOL, I’m not following any of the SMG talk at all that Snowden is pitching. What the heck are you talking about, Snowden?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s pissed because I ripped apart a piece he did on Koscheck after the Thiago fight. I don’t know why he’s bringing it up here.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Well, I think it’s safe to say that everyone ripped it apart. It was absolutely absurd, and one of the observations that I keep fresh in my brain when listening to Snowden’s remarks regarding actual fights and fighters.
In regards to legal matters, I’ll keep an open mind.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
This is ludicrous. Many people understood my point clearly. Cherry picking an article makes it easier to combat points I wasn’t making….
What’s ludicrous? That multiple web sites ran counter points and those articles received accolades from readers. I received multiple emails about how ridiculous the article was, but that was your opinion.
The point wasn’t unclear, nobody is saying that the point was muddled.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. Any strong opinion piece is going to have people come down strongly on one side or another. The fact that you received feedback agreeing with your critique means “everyone” ripped it apart?
The point wasn’t unclear, I agree. Many people misread it, however, insisting that I didn’t believe in cross training and that Koscheck was better off as a simple lay and pray wrestler. That isn’t what I said, and isn’t what I believe.
You’re taking “everyone” too literally as it’s an exaggerated comment referring to “A LOT” of people disagreed with it. If that’s the kind of argument you want to throw at me, ok.
I will say that if your point was taken in that context by some people, that’s definitely not the point you were making.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people agreed with the article. It’s irrelevent. When you write columns for a major site with the goal of evokign a strong reaction from readers, there will be disagreements.
My point wasn’t that Koscheck shouldn’t be focussed on being a well rounded fighter. Of course he should. We learned that lesson long ago when Mark Coleman fought Maurice Smith. (See Total MMA: Inside Ultimate Fighting-cheap plug). The point is that Koscheck’s strong suit will always be his wrestling. It seemed to me (and others, even those close to him) that Josh was too focussed on his kickboxing, to the detriment of the rest of his game.
A more prudent fighter would use improved standup as a compliment to his grappling. Koscheck seemed obsessed to use striking alone. This isn’t going to work for him, because no matter how bad he wants it, he isn’t going to be the best fighter in the world with his punching and kicking. That strategy has worked well for one wrestler: Chuck Liddell. Chuck is blessed with dynamite in his hands. Josh isn’t . So if Josh wants to be a great fighter, he is going to need to find a better way to mix his strongest skills, his wrestling, in with his striking.
I actually agree with Snowden here
although I don’t recall agreeing with the original piece.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
I agree that Josh should focus his strategy on his strong suits. That’s not really what I took from your article, though.
And given the context (written after his fight with Thiago), I especially disagreed because Koscheck’s best strategy in that fight was to stand up with him, which was more than successful until he made a critical error.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
That’s the problem with standup, especially with those small gloves. The margin of error is razor thin. You know where Koscheck wouldn’t have ben KO’ed by a mediocre fighter? In top position raining down GNP!
Josh Koscheck: kickboxer makes a fight with a BJJ player with poor standup an even affair. He could win, or he could lose, there really isn’t a huge advantage for him.
A Koscheck who is mixing things up, keeping his opponent offbalance, and using his strengths as well as his standup is almost never going to lose to anyone but the very best.
In other words, Koscheck’s obsession with his aggressive standup gave Thiago more of a puncher’s chance than he would have had before.
Wait a second… that wasn’t even the counter point. The huge problem I had with the article was that Koscheck was declining because he lost “one fight” in a case that was basically labeled as “shit happens”.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, in fairness, no one was talking about your critique! We were talking about SMG.
Koscheck hadn’t lost a single fight. He had lost two. And both seemed related to his new strategy of focussing on his standup. Shit didn’t happen. He put himself in a position to get knocked out because he wants to be a Zuffa-clone brawler and win FOTN and get cheered on the blogs.
Don’t get me wrong, Koscheck is a great fighter. He just needs to refocus his attack if he wants to be the best. There are wrestlers that provide a nice template of using striking to setup takedowns. He would be better suited trainign for submisison negation, rather than looking to be Cro Cop with a wig.
Maybe my comment came out wrong, but I was agreeing with you. I think people saying that you were basically making a broader statement that cross training was irrelevant is a bit much.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What aren’t you following? sackingmikegoldberg.com wrote an anonymous hatchetjob on an article I wrote for fiveouncesofpain.com. I see now that sackingmikegoldberg.com is run by a writer for bloodyelbow.com. I’m just happy to know who wrote the article, as a man should be able to face his accusers. :)
I’m not even sure why you brought it into the conversation, just to confront…?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
When someone is calling Sherdog an unbiased news source it raises questions. Those questions are answered when you see they run their own operation called sackmikegoldberg.com.
I fail to see the connection. How does Fagan saying Sherdog is unbiased have anything to do with Sack Mike Goldberg, which is hitting at getting rid of bad commentary on a UFC broadcast, and furthermore, isn’t trying to be a “news” source whatsoever, and is opinions.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it interestingthat Bloody Elbow wants press credentials, while at the same time, employing a writer that runs sackmikegoldberg.com. Is this a good indication to the UFC that you come with an open mind, ready to practice unbiased journalism?
SMG is relevant to me in this instance because of how clearly he misrepresented what I wrote. That level of comprehension makes it hard to take him at his word that a Sherdog article was “unbiased.” Perhaps, just perhaps, someone without a keen eye might not detect that bias?
It’s somewhat off the beaten path here. BTW, it is better form to contact me directly to discuss my article. A fellow professional will usually provide a heads up as well. I wouldn’t wish to exercise any prior restraint, but it is a courtesy to inform the writer you are critiquing their post. A good blogger, like Glenn Greenwald, will even offer the target a chance to discuss back and forth, or at least reply in the comments.
It’s my understanding that SMG is primarily concerned with humor.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
This is what I was getting at. I didn’t understand the mix up, and I was a bit confused, but SMG is purely comical.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
1) I’ve never claimed Sherdog was an unbiased news source. Curious where you got that from.
2) As Richard said, SMG is a humor site. This is like Joe Scarborough going after the Daily Show. SMG is not a news site. It does not offer news, it does not report news, it does not copy and paste news.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Still living right here in my heart, mind, and browser. So, no. but let the grammar police out of the station!
This is getting stupid, guys.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Unless the article is completely off point, which is what you’re claiming, I don’t see why another blogger needs to “inform” someone of a critiquing article at all in any case.
A lot of what blogs do is critique each other, and critique stories. You already presented your case, and then you disagreed with Mike’s point after he already wrote the piece. You would have had no idea that the case he made was off point with your case (which is an opinion by you). So, you would have wanted Mike to inform you of his article, tell you his basis, then discuss it with you?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 3, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Fightlinker
Aren’t they credentialed? Do you not consider them unbiased because there “bias” is against everyone?
Saying any news outlet is unbiased in my opinion is. There is no true middle ground. It’s an expectation that can’t be achieved. The most unbiased news reporter in the US is gonna report much differently than his Cockney counterpart.
I’m aware of all of this, and all the history, and I think it’s still a terrible decision to ban news outlets that report things you don’t like. They should not have reported the TUF results, but at the same time if you’re going to make political analogies, it’s not like the White House banned media that printed stories based on leaks.
It’s not really analagous at all to Tony Snow dealing with Daily Kos because unlike the political press, there is not an active serious press core covering the UFC. There are maybe 6 or 8 guys, as opposed to a broad national media that covers politics. Sites like MMA Junkie, MMA Mania, Sherdog, and others are a huge source of actual news in the sport because major media doesn’t cover it. This would be more understandable if you didn’t have situations like UFC 96 where there were about 10 reporters in attendance with 3 questions. For better or worse, the online media is the real center of MMA media.
Of course there is much more to it than spoiling TUF. I’ll leave you to your black and white world where Sherdog didn’t/doesn’t have a vested financial interest in the success of UFC competitors. Where they didn’t intentionally and blatantly skew their news coverage.
There is nothing about Sherdog that makes them a good example of victim of the UFC’s “draconian” media policies.
I feel like you’re just changing the focus to the history of Sherdog and Dana to obscure the fact that media that cover the UFC blatantly skew their coverage for Dana to avoid his wrath and to make sure they keep their prized credential. As someone in MMA media you should be well aware of how all this happens, and websites that have strained in their incredible sucking up to maintain credentialed status.
by Michael Rome on Apr 3, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Couldn’t you replace UFC with any other three letter sports acronym and still have that sentence make sense?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Scott Coker sit down with journalists that would like to see his org fail? Would you fault him if he didn’t?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He seems like the type of guy that would.
You don’t think so?
Where’s all this conspiracy coming from?
Everyone wants to see the UFC fail now? UFC gets criticized and now its the UFC versus the world? :)
No, just Loretta Hunt and Sherdog.
You surely can’t disagree with that.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Since when does Sherdog have the problem to take the UFC down?
Its not like Loretta Hunt manufactured the piece. She wrote a good article and did as best as she could with the sources she had. It’s not her fault the UFC didn’t want to give her their side of the story.
I am sure she took EliteXC down as well when she confirmed that Big Foot was fighting Kharitanov for the HW title and it turned out to be completely false, and EliteXC got criticized by the fans for not making the fight happen, as she reported.
It’s not a matter of ability, it’s a matter of motive – Sherdog and Hunt want the UFC to fail, and that is not a controversial statement.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying that if the UFC closed up shop tomorrow, the folks at Sherdog would be happy about that?
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yes – they would get to cover the chaos
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And then...
have nothing left to draw big numbers going forward. Strikeforce being the biggest American promotion right now would KILL the online media sites. I mean, not that they’d close down shop but they certainly would take some big traffic (income) hits after the dust settled. I sincerely doubt that Sherdog or any other serious MMA site is so short sighted that they want the UFC to collapse just to “cover the chaos”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 3, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You give them more credit for seeing what’s in their best interest than I do.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Would replacing ‘UFC’ with ‘Dana’ make it more palatable to you?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Who do you think alters their coverage for access? Dave Meltzer? Yahoo? MMA Weekly? This is a common complaint I’ve noticed. Maybe these outlets will have to feature content from the owner of “sackmikegoldberg.com” to be truly unbiased in your eyes?
I think a much more common problem involves the kid gloves blogs use when they “interview” fighters. In my experience, the MMA media is much more subservient to their fighter heroes than they are to any promotion.
If we replace ‘fighters, MMA and promotion’ with ‘player, NFL and team’, respectively, that sentence still works.
This is not that out of the ordinary.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
To an extent. But look at the coverage of Quinton Jackson’s “rampage” and compare it to coverage of an NFL player in trouble with the law. The MMA media was on the defensive from day one, mostly because there is still a very “us against the world” attitude.
Also, anyone who remembers the UFC press conferences from the days when they allowed all the “new media” may have a good idea of why they don’t want all those people back. To say many bloggers are “fanboys” is putting it lightly.
Truth. It also seems to me that the MMA media isn’t quite as arrogant/cocky as pro sports media, inasmuch as they realize that people will side with the fighter in a fighter v journalist spat. The journalist has a chance when it’s a football player, etc (see Jim Rome v ‘Cris’ Everett – if that ever happens in MMA, 95% of all MMA fans will side with the fighters and call Rome a punk).
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The polarity between Rampage and someone like TO
Does have something to do with MMA media seeking ownership of a sport still in its infancy, but also has a lot to do with media privileges and the scale of the reporting sources. ESPN can send Mark Schlereth to take a shit on TO’s Bentley, because they’re ESPN. They are also mostly responsible for this perception, being that ESPN is almost exclusively driven by its negativity and controversy.
I really don’t like ESPN. And right now is a time to actually be relieved they don’t hold MMA in high regard, because they’d be driving Dana White into the depths with their coverage of his Vlog.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Charles Awad on Apr 3, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. Some people have thinly veiled motives that drive their desire to see mainstream MMA coverage (i.e they want to be paid to provide that coverage). But honestly, MMA isn’t suffering from not having the kind of overwhelming media attenttion that makes it hard to follow other sports sometimes.
The media is as underground as the fighting once was. I’d like it to stay that way.
"ESPN is almost exclusively driven by its negativity and controversy"
The funniest part is that Disney owns ESPN, but they realize that negativity & controversy stirs more attention up than positivity does.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
It's intentions
What were Rampage’s intentions in his incident?
What were these other Football players intentions?
Fantastic Article Mr. Rome
Very astute, the problem is the UFC’s policies with the press. And for any of us that have had first hand dealings with how the UFC interacts with the media, it’s obvious that continuing their current policy is going to provide continued problems for them. I have my own stories to tell, but this is not the place for it.
One hopes that the powers that be in the UFC will reconsider their current stance and make some needed changes, if not sweeping.
MMA Blog sites use to be the red headed step children to the UFC...
Now they’re that creepy uncle that was caught in the closet w/ lil Timmy…
I saw this coming a mile away.
Good job. Well written. I totally agree.
With reactions like this I do sort of wonder how long they’re going to last. They don’t seem to stick to very strong principles. It’s sort of like they refuse to believe that they might be a part of the problem. The problem is always from somewhere else. The reality is, the host is almost always at least a small part of the problem.
The positive effects of Dana’s passion on the sport couldn’t be understated; losing him would be a huge blow. Is it really that hard to simply not indulge in hate speech? I mean, just have someone go through the material later and edit out the hate speech! Then coach the guy on how to speak intelligently.
Dana Story In Front Page of ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=4038944
“I went on the attack and I ended up attacking someone I didn’t mean to,” White said. “I absolutely, positively meant to attack the reporter, Loretta Hunt from Sherdog. Absolutely.”
Hunt, in an e-mail to ESPN.com on Thursday night, wrote: “I stand by the story. It’s accurate.”
White told ESPN.com’s Buckheit that he didn’t want to “write some canned statement from the company — there’s no [expletive] way I was going to do that.” Instead, he said he would issue another video response, and then quit talking about the incident.
“You know what? The thing that sucks is that video rant, the feedback I got was not negative,” White said. "It was overwhelmingly positive from our fans. It was, ‘Yeah, you go, Dana. You’re the man.’
“At the end of the day, the worst thing for me is that I don’t want anybody thinking that it’s cool to say that word especially now that I know the word ‘faggot’ is as powerful as the n-word. I don’t want these kids out there watching me and thinking it’s cool. I don’t want that.”
seriously?
especially now that I know the word ‘faggot’ is as powerful as the n-word
He didn’t know this before his rant? That kind of floors me.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL, perfect.
You know, despite all that happened I still like Dana. I just wish he’d learn to watch his f*ckin’ mouth… :)
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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Then why will he say “faggot” but not “nigger”, instead referring to “the n-word”?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Epic fail of comprehension?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
After watching American History X with a bunch of friends, we were discussing it and most everyone was saying “the n-word” but using every other slur in the film, when our Colombian friend turns to us and says, “Why does everyone use ‘the n-word’, but OK with saying ‘spic’?” That got uncomfortable really quickly.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know about sarcastic… but certainly less than fully committed. Of course, without hearing his tone, it’s hard to say…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana Gets Ripped By ESPN Reporter in Interview
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=buckheit/090403
But in attacking her you used a word that offends most everybody.
Yeah, I know that now. I know there are words that you can’t use. I was talking to [one of the guys on my staff] today, who I’ve known forever, and we’ve been friends for [expletive] 10 years, and he’s gay and he told me that the f-word is the new n-word. It’s just as intolerable as the n-word. Honestly, now I know. You learn something every day.
There are a lot of people scripting the apology that you should be giving right now. Do you think anybody deserves an apology?
I hurt people that I didn’t intend to hurt and when you do something like that, yes, I believe that you should say you’re sorry. I never intended to hurt anybody in the gay community, or be malicious, or look like a hateful guy. I never meant to hurt anyone in the gay or lesbian community at all, in any way, shape or form. I would never do that. I was speaking to Loretta Hunt. I didn’t mean to bring those people into this; it had nothing to do with them and for that, I’m sorry.
I really didn’t know the power of that word.
A lot of people won’t buy that, Dana.
Look, I lived in Southie. I say a lot of things, a lot of which people won’t [expletive] like. OK, but you know, when I was living there — and this was when I was a young [expletive] idiot, like 21 years old. I lived next door to a lesbian couple and they used to get terrorized- terrorized. South Boston back in the day was a crazy [expletive] place to be. A black cab driver would tell you to “[expletive] off.” Anyway, I became friends with the two girls next door and, put it this way, I made sure they never got terrorized anymore. They were getting their windows broken and their trash cans knocked over and I made sure that nobody said s— about them, or did anything to them. I told everybody to leave my [expletive] friends alone. And they’re still my friends. I just threw a party with House of Pain on Saint Patrick’s Day and one of the Southie girls came. I [expletive] love her. I’m 39 years old. I’m a grown-up. I shouldn’t have used the word I used yesterday but I am not [expletive] anti-gay. That’s not who the I am. I have a ton of gay friends, and co-workers and people very close to me and I know who the [expletive] I am. I know and so do my friends. At the end of the day I don’t need to explain myself to anybody.
Tomorrow and the day after that, will you use the n-word, or the f-word?
I never say the n-word. Ever. I swear all the time. I swear at home in front of my kids, but I’m a psycho about the n-word. Never. It’s racist. It hurts people. It’s never OK. I didn’t think of the f-word like that. … Now I do.
As you, in your own words, take this spectacle and make it a sport, do you realize your public responsibility to make sure you don’t look like a bad guy, or worse, a bigot?
Yeah. I did today. Honestly, I think all in all that this was a good experience for me. I say a lot of things. I do a lot of things. I absolutely meant to attack Loretta Hunt and her story and that Web site. There are times when I will go after people on purpose. Plus, I swear a lot because, to me, words are just words. I really believe that, that’s just me. So with that blog, I never meant to offend so many people just by using that word. I never thought I could. It didn’t occur to me. I especially didn’t mean to hurt my gay friends. But I now know that the reality is, whether you mean to hurt anybody or not, you do. You just do. Now I know.
Ripped? That reads like an honest and candid interview to me. I’m not seeing the “ripping”.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, ripping is not the correct word. Reporter tears into Dana’s soul and shows him what’s right and whats wrong. Yeah, I can’t edit the title, so what can I do. :)
You really are one of the more delusional people I’ve ever come into contact with on the internet.
by Michael Rome on Apr 3, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am pretty sure I am not delusional at the fact that we don’t have an editing tool.
Other than that, I will take your comment as a compliment.
How appropriate
He called you delusional and you said you’ll take it as a compliment.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
That really was necessary. I thought you were just being crazy again.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Apr 3, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really liked that
I truly feel that Dana is honestly sorry after reading that. Not that I thought he was blowing smoke up my ass before, but its a really good interview that gets to the point and Dana faces it like everything else… head on. Thanks for posting!
…still baffled that he didn’t know… lol
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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…still baffled that he didn’t know… lol
There isn’t a big enough building in the world to house the things that most people don’t know.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
There are parts of this I agree with and parts that I don’t agree with at all. Yes the UFC needs to act more professionally as an organization but that doesn’t mean they need to treat Sherdog like they are a real news site or give them any respect. They need to stand above this kind of stuff in a professional sense because that is what needs to be done at the next level not because they need to be more open to internet news sites.
I also don’t think Dana White not doing a reality show is going to hurt the sport or that it means that he won’t be out there actively fighting for it. You can be an effective leader of a company without being a bigger than life public persona, not to mention that he will probably last longer and do more if he isn’t burning himself out with having to be a public characture of himself all the time. It’s not like the guy is retiring he is just going to cut back on being an on screen personality.
by who me on Apr 3, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No more dana Blogs??
wtf that’s lame.
by I Can't Feel My Face on Apr 3, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
Fag Gate Ruins Things for Fans
I’m from Jamaica, born and raised. Its a country where homos are looked down upon heavily and they are regularly persecuted for basically being gay in public. The ones who make it to jail before they get damn near killed are the lucky ones. I can go on and on about how they are treated, but you can do your own research and find pictures and videos yourself if your that interested. It was weird adjusting to America at first with how open the fruits are. For the past few years I’ve gotten used to gays and lesbians being everywhere and this countries acceptance of it, but as an avid MMA fan, the end result of this has rekindled and reminded me of my roots and that I just really don’t like gays. (be happy I could be using much more harsh words, we have several in Patois)
I still feel Dana did nothing wrong, the man spoke his mind. Get over it, fucking gay people take offense to the word faggot when its not being directed towards them, the word has several uses, do gay people consider themselves fags? If not, stop being offended, shit. Less media coverage now, no more backstage scenes and inside looks at whats going on leading up to an event.
I understand its not professional, but shit… freedom of speech, especially since its nothing new coming from Dana. He calls stuff gay all the time, and as soon as he calls an anonymous person a faggot and a woman a bitch, everyone wants to jump all over him. Look what the faggots have done now. =/
Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.
Freedom of speech does not mean what you seem to think it means.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Apr 3, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I may not have a full grasp on what freedom of speech means, but I know we don’t have freedom of speech in Jamaica. Artists can’t curse on stage when doing a show, etc. So I figure its gotta be a little more free here. Last I checked, we are supposed to be able to speak freely without censorship or limitation from the public.
Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.
we are supposed to be able to speak freely without censorship or limitation from the public.
Actually, it’s the opposite. Freedom of speech means freedom of expression without fear of institutional sanction (ie, from powerful organizations like the government). The point is that the public will be free to decide collectively and socially what is acceptable and what is not. Richard was right; free speech doesn’t mean the right to say whatever the hell a person wants without criticism. That would just suspend everyone in a useless neutrality, unable to comment upon or react to what anyone else said.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
"Every right implies a responsibility" - John D. Rockefeller
Look what the faggots have done now
Are you calling those of us who demand a certain professionalism from public figures, especially when their behaviour is seen as a reflection of us, “faggots”? At least use a more creative insult.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Richard, it was a play on Dana calling the anonymous source a faggot.
A friend of mine’s brother is gay, when I happen to be at his house I may accidentally slip out the word “fag” every now and then and he doesn’t even flinch as I speak. I’m not calling him a fag, and it wasn’t directed towards gay people. Just calling my homeboy a fag because he may have beaten me in Tekken or something, meant in the context of bitch, fucker, asshole, etc.
Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.
Well, I’m not Richard, but whatever…
The rub is that “faggot” does indeed refer to a gay person, so when used as an insult, it associates homosexuality with inferiority. Same as insulting something as “gay” – it obviously doesn’t mean “happy”. It’s built-in to the word in North America (if you ask for fags in Britain, they’ll had you a pack of cigarettes).
It’s also just a lazy insult. Be creative! Have fun with it instead of relying on tired, unimaginative clichés!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
A friend of mine’s brother is gay…
A friend of mine is gay, too. I don’t feel that gives me the right to go around calling people faggots.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
This… this is amazing. I don’t encounter this level of ignorance often, so I think I may screencap this to keep around as a reminder.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Apr 3, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Call it what you want, I’m just calling as it is, everyone is blowing this well out of proportion just because of who he is. Tighten up.
Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.
“Who he is” is why this is a big deal.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I appreciate your contributing your perspective
in a rational and relatively civil way.
MMA is an international sport and its a useful reminder that mores are very different in different cultures.
But do I need to remind you that there was a time when most citizens of Jamaica traveling through the American south would get the back of the bus treatment and I think (I hope) we can all agree that its best that those days are behind us.
The reason the story got covered here at BE was that Dana is now a public figure, the head of a popular sporting league and has to abide by the same rules as any other major American corporate figure.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
I have to disagree. I dont think he’s needs to abide by certain rules of conduct at all. MMA is as big as it is because of his arrogance and persistance. In the end Zuffa and Dana are trying to sell a product. A product that at first 95% of people could care less about. I completely understand his out bursts at people when the very same people who now make a living because off his efforts to grow the sport criticise every move he makes. This website about MMA is here because of him. And honeslty if the UFC decided tomorrow to end it all, MMA would go down hard and it would talke a long time again for it to get back to where it is now, Because the average guy does not even know Strikeforce even exists and most dont even know the T-shirt guy has a promotion as well. Dana says a lot of dumb things but bad press is never really bad press and I argee with the article that Dana stepping out of the public eye is definatly a move in the wrong direction.
Yes he does, In business there are precious few CEO’s that can take a Company from nothing to a billion dollar worth. Business changes at different levels in how making a buck is accomplished.
Art Davie, Rorion Gracie, Robert Meyrowitz, couldn’t reach the next level so they handed it off to Fertittas and White. With the new big sponsors (Harley Davidson, Gatorade, Bud Light) not mostly owned by Zuffa companies the UFC is moving to a different era.
Just as the UFC has changed from “no hold’s barred” to rules and refs to government regulation, so also must the leadership and the promotional strategy of UFC change.
Dana's most hated media
For some reason keep working for the best news agencies out there, ESPN and CNN-SI. Good article.
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