Lots of People Have "Bad Nights" Against Forrest Griffin
by Michael Rome on Apr 29, 2009 4:41 AM EDT
in News
93 comments
Coming at this from a fan's perspective, I love the Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin match. It's the first UFC opponent for Silva that won't be giving up reach, and he's the biggest guy Silva has fought. Silva usually is around 230 pounds out of camp, but during camp he diets and trains down to 205, and then cuts to 185. When he fought James irvin, he supposedly cut from around 218. Regardless, he will be smaller than Forrest for this fight.
This will be a seriously competitive fight, regardless of what people are saying. Forrest isn't an amazing technical striker, but he is very good at throwing in high volume and overwhelming his opponents with his relentless pace. This is only a 3 round fight, and his style tends to do very well on score cards. Anderson can't just take his time getting into this fight, or he could find himself down a round or even two going into the third.
Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage when they were ranked number one in the world at light heavyweight. People find reasons to diminish these wins, but it's an exercise in futility. You can do it to diminish almost anyone's wins in a sport as unpredictable as MMA. The bottom line is that before both of those fights, people asked the same exact question people are asking now: "How can Forrest win?" I admit I was one of them, I thought that Rampage just had too much for Forrest, but it wasn't the case. Even if you believe Rampage won that fight, you still can't deny that it was extremely close, and Forrest performed far better than most expected him to. Saying Rampage performed badly unfairly diminishes the fact that guys don't just perform in a vacuum, they perform based on what their opponents bring to the table. It's no accident that lots of guys have "off nights" when they fight Forrest Griffin.
In recent fights, one of the more discouraging trends in Anderson Silva's game is the fact that he has been throwing only one strike at a time. In his last fight, he stood in front of a fighter that had no jab and was leaning against the fence begging to be finished, but he couldn't be bothered to string a few strikes together to end it. Besides the James Irvin win, most of his devastating finishes haven't been one-punch knockouts. Unless he gets back to stringing together combinations, I don't think he is going to finish Forrest with a single shot. Forrest doesn't have an amazing chin by any means, but he was able to withstand five rounds of Quinton's punches and a number of big shots from Rashad while the fight was standing. He can be finished, but it's not easy, and it's not like a single punch from Anderson Silva is going to be a whole new world of power that Forrest has never felt before.
As a fan, the most frustrating thing is seeing guys like Fedor and Anderson Silva fight guys nowhere near their league while they are in their prime. These recent Silva fights against Cote and Leites have been a true waste of an amazing talent. People can cry for Yushin Okami all day, but that is not an intriguing fight at all. He's never beaten top middleweight talent, and the only question in that fight is whether Okami can somehow manage a wet blanket decision victory. Excuse me if I'm not horrified over the fact that he's getting "screwed."
I was worried that they would put Silva in with someone like Luis Cane, which is the kind of fight that doesn't really inspire a lot of excitement. Instead they swung for the fences, and now we're going to get a true dream match among guys that are still in their prime. These are the fights that bring out legendary performances, as opposed to the disgrace at UFC 97. I'm no shrink, but it seems to me that Anderson Silva responds to new challenges and real threats, and he has both on his hands here.
Don't believe the hype that this is a one-sided blowout, Forrest is a live underdog. Forrest will show up in shape with a good game plan, and if Silva takes him lightly he could end up shaking his head in the back just like Shogun and Rampage. I'm leaning toward Anderson in this fight, but it's no slam dunk, and if he can't get up for this fight and really make an effort, Forrest will embarrass him too.
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People can cry for Yushin Okami all day, but that is not an intriguing fight at all. He’s never beaten top middleweight talent,
Except for Anderson Silva.
by George Lucas on Apr 29, 2009 3:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, you call that a "win"?
Hell, Anderson should have won an award for inventive KO and then they should have changed the rule for kicks on grounded opponents for that situation.
by Razreshat on Apr 29, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think that Okami believes that he beat Anderson Silva?
Most competitors would not say that your opponent doing something to get themselves disqualified is a victory you should claim.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When one guy has an advantage on an opponent (like say Okami inside Anderson’s guard) to the point where that opponent cheats to escape and gets a DQ, I’d call that a victory.
by George Lucas on Apr 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Anderson couldn’t even make it the distance, unlike Dean Lister.
by bigweeze on Apr 29, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that that rec’ing this doesn’t really do anything because this is already on the main page, but even if it’s futile, this is a very rec worthy piece.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 29, 2009 4:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One thing. I’m thinking it’s kind of rare to be down one round going into the third. That would mean one of the rounds was a tie. Otherwise, in like 99.874% of all fights, it’s either 20-18 or 19-19 going into the third. So chances are, he’ll either be down two rounds or even.
Okay. I’m going to sleep this off now.
by subo on Apr 29, 2009 4:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Forrest will be too big and will smother him for 3 rds. I know that prediction won’t be popular but I feel it’s the truth.
"You can teach em' to type, but you can't teach em' to grow tits" - Charlie Wilson
by Legless on Apr 29, 2009 4:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, this is a dream match. I’m very jacked about this one. Aside from Rampage, I think this is the most exciting match up at 205 for Silva. It certainly won’t be a blowout. Silva definitley has his hands full.
by Josh H. on Apr 29, 2009 6:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This fight give me tingles and reading this post just brings my excitement levels up to 11.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Apr 29, 2009 6:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, it suprised me when the fight was announced, and I would rather see this then Silva fight another mediocre contender. However, it doesn’t give me the WOW factor that it has done for some of you.
I would rather have waited to see if Wanderlai could have got through Franklin, and they would have organised that. It’s just a shame Liddell looks to be at the end of the road, because that’s another dream match that has now passed us by.
Anyways, I will enjoy the fight, Forrest has a great chance.
by Rob J Nathan on Apr 29, 2009 6:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They can still do that, the Wandy fight isn’t for 2 months, there’s no way he’d be ready in time for a fight in August after that one. Let this happen, then bisping/hendo, then wandy. Okami if there’s ever time.
I’m not crying that Okami isn’t getting the title shot, I would have liked to see him instead of Leites, but if the options are Okami, Wandy, Hendo/Bisping, or Forrest, Okami can sit on the bench for a bit.
by Phildo on Apr 29, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually very excited to see this matchup..
this isn’t a huge mismatch as people put it to be.. and i agree, forrest will give him trouble especially with his size and reach, but i doubt silva wont be motivated for this fight cause this is the super fight that he and his team has been wanting for some time now..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 29, 2009 6:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What are their actual heights?
I agree that Forrest will likely be heavier than Silva, but Forrest does not appear to be much if any taller than Silva & I would think their reach is very similar as well. I love the idea of this matchup, but I do not think Forrest holds a decided advantage in height or reach. Maybe I am wrong, but if someone knows please tell me for sure.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
forrest is 6’3", silva is 6’2"
but this becomes interesting because silva always has the reach and height advantage.. now forrest will probably be the stronger, bigger and longer fighter..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 29, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Forrest will be Anderson's biggest opponent to date.
But the actual size difference appears to be negligible.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah youre right.. but that wasn’t actually the point.. the point is silva wont have his usual advantage, which is his reach.. this time he might even have a slight disadvantage there so it makes things interesting.
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 29, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not your point,
but Rome and some others have actually been using the height/reach advantage argument. That was the only thing that I was disputing. I love the prospect of this matchup & believe that Forrest can push Silva though. Anything that you follow by “slight” is not something that I would bet on being a difference maker.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone told me yesterday that silva still has a half inch reach advantage
by yngjzy on Apr 29, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m excited too, I’m glad it’s going to be in my city. Penn v Florian and Silva v Griffin….Must.get.tickets.
by CliChe Guevara on Apr 29, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this will be the hardest fight for Anderson Silva thus far in the UFC. He won’t be the taller and heavier man in the cage and he won’t have a longer reach than his opponent. Of course, he will still have his sick striking skills and BJJ, but he’ll have a lot more problems trying to impose his will on Griffin than just about anyone else he’s fought.
I’m pulling for Forrest to win this one. I admire the Spider’s skills, but he’s getting too cocky and bored. He’ll need someone to push him HARD. Forrest will. He’s well on his way to becoming what Randy Couture has been all his career – an underdog you can’t afford to bet against.
by lhasafi on Apr 29, 2009 7:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only shame about this match is that it will only be 3 rounds.
by brad23 on Apr 29, 2009 8:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. But 3 rounds forces action to happen.
by bigweeze on Apr 29, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Forrest could take this one. Forrest is not an "expert’ in any of the areas of MMA by themselves. He has a lot of heart, and puts it all together and simply FIGHTS better than opponents who look better on paper. His pace will force Silva to react, and whether we see a quick bloodbath resulting in a old school victory for the spider, or a 3 round epic battle, this will probably be a memorable fight.
by Magman on Apr 29, 2009 8:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Silva takes this seriously, this could be one of those wars
that Forrest is famous for. One where he possibly takes tons of damage while never backing down. I still see Silva winning via TKO in Rd 2.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Impressed with this bit of UF C match-making
The UFC got this one right.
Griffin-T.Silva, as exciting a fight as it is stylistically, made little sense in terms of each fighter having a logical trajectory. Griffin is in the top tier of the LHW roster, while Silva has not yet earned this privilege. The top opponent Silva ever faced was Machida, who himself has never fought anyone else in the Top 10, except arguably Ortiz who is the gatekeeper to the Top 10. The first truly elite LHW fighter to test Machida will be Evans.
Griffin is a dethroned champion who should be only 2 good wins away from another shot at his title. Take Liddell. After he lost to Rampage, Liddell was given nothing but elite competition: W.Silva, Jardine, Evans and Rua. Griffin’s opponents need to be drawn from this crowd.
A.Silva certainly belongs in this category. His only fight at 205 was against the low-ranked Irvin, but Anderson also holds a victory over Henderson who I rank at #4, or #5 if you count Anderson above him, for his knockout victory over W.Silva and for going toe-to-toe with Jackson for 5 rounds. So by my rankings, Griffin-A.Silva is a #2 vs #4 fight, and therefore an extremely compelling match-up, logically and stylistically. It holds major credibility as a set-up to a title shot by the winner of this fight.
Jardine is interesting because he has definitely proven he can hang with the elite but his record remains inconsistent. This makes him something of a gatekeeper to the Top 5, and a better match-up for an up-and-comer like T.Silva. For similar reasons, Rua-Cane makes sense. Rua is on the lower end of the LHW elite, somewhere near Jardine, so he is appropriate for a rising fighter like Cane.
If Jardine and Rua overcome these challenges, I believe they are still one fight away from a title shot – perhaps against each other. I would be very excited for this fight, especially if both fighters win impressive victories over T.Silva and Cane.
by klown on Apr 29, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, the flashy, highly skilled champion moving up a rank to fight a less skilled, but dogged opponent.
Didn’t we see this one a few months ago?
Forrest by 20 pounds of muscle in the third round.
by toxic on Apr 29, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I assume that you are talking about BJ?
And if you are actually comparing BJ Penn to Anderson Silva, then I will just let this go because you are clearly not thinking straight.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GSP to Forrest?
Silva is moving up like Penn did, so I assume he was not talking about Forrest as he is not moving up a rank.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am very impressed with Silva for obvious reasons. But I have become increasingly wary of hype. Penn and Silva are alike in that their fans think they can kick anyone’s ass at any time. Silva has a better chance against Forrest than Penn did against GSP for sure, but the same principle still holds. They have weight classes for a reason, and he who ventures above his weight class is substantially likelier to get mauled.
by toxic on Apr 29, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is that Silva walks around
at over 200 & Penn moved up to a weight he is never at. The size differences between GSP & BJ are far more than Silva & Forrest.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Silva will still have to cut weight for this fight. B.J. didn’t.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Apr 29, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought BJ weighed in normally around 165 and GSP would be up around 185 by fight night. Doesn’t Forrest walk around at like 230, compared to Andersons 210? I could see some similarities, but I agree in that it’s a stretch.
by CliChe Guevara on Apr 29, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were reports
that Anderson walks around at like 220 when he is not preparing to cut for middleweight. For me, that makes it much more of a stretch.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Joe Silva got on BE and realized that he layed an egg with the Leites fight.
I got Forrest by humbleness in 15 minutes on this one.
Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.
by Heenan on Apr 29, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When I first heard the of the matchup I was like “Poor Forrest” but then I realized what you just wrote about but that isn’t going to change my pick Silva T/KO round 2. I would love to see Silva and Rampage fight.
by The Legend on Apr 29, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I was Forrest, I'd be pissed.
What does Forrest have to gain from this fight? If he wins, he beat a middleweight, and it doesn’t seem to help him that much in the LHW title picture. If he loses, he is humiliated and reduced to a LHW gatekeeper. Meanwhile, Thiago Silva and Keith Jardine are moving on to fight each other and get back in the title picture, while Forrest is being left in the dust. I feel like T. Silva or Jardine Vs. Forrest would be much a more appropriate LHW fight, and then the odd man out (preferably Thiago Silva) could go clown around with Anderson Silva.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Forrest gains a win over the #1 P4P fighter in the world who is near his size.
Meaningful If you don’t think P4P is a stupid concept
by bigweeze on Apr 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"If he wins, he beat a middleweight"
Huh? If Forrest wins he will likely be vaulted right to the front of the title picture along with Rampage. Silva is the middleweight champ, but he walks around at LHW.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope so. Not only do I not remember a situation like that ever playing out before, but I don’t see how beating up someone (if he should win) who isn’t even really in your division is supposed to impress anyone.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we are talking about the most dominant/successful UFC champ ever.
Who could very easily be a LHW if he chose to. This could be huge for Forrest were he able to pull it off, which I do not believe he can. But, this could be remembered as one of those Forrest wars where he takes tons of punishment & keeps on coming forward which we all know the UFC loves.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rrrright. I totally overlooked the fact that Silva “could very easily be a LHW if he chose to”. How foolish of me. I mean, he is the greatest p4p fighter in the world, so he could easily be the champ of any division if he chose to. He’s just toying around with LHW until the UFC allows him to go wipe the floor with Lesnar.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am speaking in terms of his weight dude.
He walks around at 220 or so. You really need to get back to work again because you keep coming back to just hating A Silva & spew it without making any sense at all.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This all started about Griffin, not Silva. Your love affair with Silva is well noted, but again, I was focused on Griffin.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Silva is a great fighter, he may be a major flake
at times but that does not change the fighter he is. You stated Griffin had nothing to gain from defeating the most decorated champ in UFC history, which is ridiculous.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t care about how great of a fighter or decorated champ or whatever you think Silva is. It doesn’t matter. My question was simply that if Griffin beats a middleweight, regardless of how good of a middleweight you think he is, what does that really do for him? I’m not saying that is does nothing. It just would seem like for Jardine to beat Thiago Silva would mean more on the LHW scene than Griffin beating Anderson Silva. I don’t know. I guess that if Nate Marquart beat GSP at middleweight, that would make him more deserving of a shot at Anderson Silva. But in my mind, for some reason, LHW is sort of the break point where there is a different set of standards and expectations. Then on the other hand, Dan Henderson sort of disproves that because he was the champ in MW and LHW. I don’t know. I see Penn/GSP/Silva as having the ability to competitively fight each other, but I don’t see Evans/Lesnar/Fedor as competitive fights at all. Silva/Evans? I don’t know. That breakline gets kind of grey to me.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jardine beating Thiago
after losing to Wand & Thiago losing to Machida does much less for the overall landscape IMO. No matter what we personally think of Anderson, he is a natural LWH & the MW champ, so if Forrest does pull it off it would be huge for him. For me, the deciding factor is how big the actual fighter moving up is. If he walks around above LHW & is able to cut down to MW, then he can be considered a LHW also. I am not sure what GSP walks around at, but he & Nate train together & from the pictures I have seen they seem to be about the same size (relatively) so if Nate beat GSP that would benefit him greatly.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are there any formal rules on how much you can cut? I realize this is off topic, but if he walks around at 220 and cuts to 185, isn’t that kind of rediculous? We used to do that in wrestling- we would walk around at like 200, but cut down to 160 just to beat up the small kids and get the easy points.
I agree that Jardine beating Thiago doesn’t do much. I just think that Jardine Griffin 2 or T Silva/Griffin makes more sense than T Silva/Jardine.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure about the rules regarding cutting,
but I would think there are none & fighters are left to watching after their own health themselves. And as far as Jardine/Griffing II, what happens if Forrest wins this one? That muddles things up even more.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that it would put Griffin in the title hunt, Jardine gatekeeper for LHW, and Thiago Silva would get KO’d by Anderson Silva and would become irrelevant.
Machida beats Evans. Rampage Loses to Machida. Guess that would make Griffin/Evans 2. That would suck. I want to see Evans/Rampage. Badly.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Evans & Page both lose to Machida
I would think they would be next to fight each other & then Forrest would get Evans after that.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendo was successful at 185 and 205, so why don’t you think silva could?
by CliChe Guevara on Apr 29, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“…on the other hand, Dan Henderson sort of disproves that because he was the champ in MW and LHW…”
Already acknowledged in my post.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reading ftl. I didn’t see that, thanks for the correctiont. I really don’t think the UFC will let this hurt Griffin.
by CliChe Guevara on Apr 29, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since the answer here would be something like…He could, we would then move to it being a somewhat credible fight for Forrest. With Forrest Cover boy status with the UFC, I’m pretty sure a loss here doesn’t hurt him. They’ll spin it as him being beaten by the best of the best, where as if he wins he’s back to being the amazing underdog poster boy that everyone loves.
by CliChe Guevara on Apr 29, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is probably a lot of truth to that.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like….if Forrest just decided not to cut and fought Randy Couture (or whomever) at HWT, if Couture wins does that make him more deserving at a title shot againt Lesnar/Mir since he beat Forrest Griffin? I don’t know. As of now, I don’t see how it does.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couture, while great, is not Silva
riding a what 9 fight win streak & current champ in the UFC. Just a subtle difference I know.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, maybe Machida is a better example since he has a 14 fight win streak and will soon be the LHW champ. Will that make him more dominant?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida is also great,
but his 14 fight win streak is not all in the UFC & I was only talking about UFC history. When Machida beats Evans & defends a couple of times we will certainly be talking about him. Anyone else you want to compare Silva to or would you just like to end by saying Anderson Silva sucks? lol
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, I’d like to go back to my original point of how this in any way benefits Forrest Griffin.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that I have responded to that
multiple times, so feel free to go back and read the posts above.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re overcomplicating it.
Beating one of the best fighters in the world is a good thing. It doesn’t matter what weight the fight was at, how much anyone weighs, or who is switching weight classes. Anyone getting a win over Anderson Silva is good.
by Phildo on Apr 29, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Would that put Griffin 1 win away from a LHW title shot? 2 wins away? 3? IDK. What if he beat Jardine or TSilva? Would he still be 2 or 3 wins away? It seems he doesn’t have much to gain. That was my point.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF!! Forrest beats Silva
then he would likely be next in line for the title after Rampage & I do not see another LHW matchup that could do that for him.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be great if it happened that way. If he wins, I hope it does. I don’t have that kind of faith in the UFC matchmakers, though (e.g Rampage vs. Evans while Machida sits, or Silva vs. Leites while Maia sits)
And just for the record, I completely acknowledge that Anderson Silva could potentially beat Griffin anyway.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of those where even if Forrest loses
it will have been to a great champ & will not damage his rep. So I am sure that is why the UFC booked this, accompanied with the fact that Forrest typically is involved in wars & not snoozers & they want someone to force the action w/Silva.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is actually an excellent point.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you should love this
as an Anderson Silva hater ;-), since Forrest should force him to scrap & not dance. lol
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha…oh believe me, I do. This is the UFC trying to save Silva for being boring.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 29, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no single answer. One thing is for sure – It would be a big win for Forrest unless Anderson looks awful. Everything else shakes out post-fight based on his and other fighters’ performances.
by bigweeze on Apr 29, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Forrest isn't an amazing technical striker..."
Forrest is a pretty good technical striker. Frazier has his boxing fundamentals drilled into him. Hands high, head movement, stiff jab. Don’t think that’s a fair assessment.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 29, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Forrest is a pretty good technical striker"
I’d say by your own words you are agreeing that “Forrest isn’t an amazing technical striker.”
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the difference would be, I would say Forrest is in the upper echelons of classic boxing skills in MMA.
Whereas the author seems to think he just brings it in volume. Maybe I’m just quibbling semantics. Caught my eye.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 29, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am no expert, but Rome is,
which is who I think wrote that. But for me personally, I cannot place Forrest in the upper echelons of classic boxing skills in MMA. Sure he is not the worst, but hardly in the top IMO.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always thought it was stupid
that people try to devalue a win if a fighter comes up from a weight class or goes down after the loss to whoever won.
So what does Forrest have to gain by beating Anderson well I am pretty sure since Dana considers Anderson the P4P king out there he will most likely get an immediate title shot right after Rampage heck maybe even before Rampage
by The Legend on Apr 29, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anderson will not be fighting for the LHW
belt since Machida is there, sooo what else ya got?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he means that Forrest would get an immediate title shot with a victory (essentially padding your argument for the “what does Forrest gain by winning this fight”).
by Estrada on Apr 29, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have terrible flashbacks to the way Forrest got caught by Rashad, Jardine…and think of Anderson taking apart Irvin inside of one round.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
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by theworldsoldestsport on Apr 29, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everyone plays up Forrest as the underdog, but I think Rashad is the underdog in more of this fights then Forrest is. Either way, I think Forrest likes these fights where all he has to do is win 1 and get back into title contention. Instead of having to fight through for a while, just beat Shogun and now just be A. Silva and he is gonna get a shot at the title.
Also, I don’t see anyone talking about how this could mess up the LHW division because A. Silva won’t fight Machida. As much as I love seeing Silva at 205, if he isn’t gonna fight for the belt (assuming Machida wins, but otherwise I still don’t see him fighting for a belt his friend wants) I don’t want him to just ruin possible title fights. Sort of the same thing with Rich Franklin at 185, he was just there to beat possible contenders.
by xDieseLx on Apr 29, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They won’t let it happen, this will probably be his only fight at 205. He has 4 fights left, and after this one there are a number of options. Nate and Maia are supposedly fighting, the winner of that could challenge. You also have Michael Bisping, Dana’s “mind blowing” middleweight, GSP…this will probably be Silva’s only 205 fight.
by Michael Rome on Apr 29, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If thats the case then the GSP fight would probably be coming soon. The UFC can’t risk Silva beating GSP and then retiring.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Apr 29, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably Forrest, then Bisping/Marquardt/Maia/Hendo, then GSP, then a final middleweight title defense (unless the “mind-blowing” MW is Roy Jones).
by madiq on Apr 29, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forrest is going to win this, the more I thought about it today the more I was sure of it. He is going to outwork and outgameplan Silva just like he did to Rampage and by the time that Anderson realises that he is losing it’s going to be too late for him to do anything about it.
by Raker on Apr 29, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Problem is, people are getting it twisted. Anderson Silva isn’t NEARLY as lazy and prone to overconfidence as Rampage is/was. We see him toying with opponents, and think that he takes his opponents lightly, but he does not. I predict he will work hard, he will gameplan, and he will prepare for war. With that kind of preparation, he will show Forrest, as well as the rest of us, why he is the World’s #1 Pound-For-Pound Fighter.
by madiq on Apr 29, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice break-down, Rome...
Good article. I think you made some very valid points about Griffin. This is Forrest’s kind of fight…he’s at his best when he’s the underdog. You’d think people would have learned by now to never count that guy out. He always comes to fight.
by Lolly on Apr 30, 2009 1:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great article and an even greater match up.
Anyone who thinks Forest has nothing to gain by beating Anderson has lost their mind. That would be like saying GSP proved nothing by destroying BJ… and he did. ANYONE who beats Anderson right now will be considered the elite fighter in their weight division, no matter which division that may be.
by Blandon on May 2, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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