Mike Swick, Marketability, and the Pursuit of the Title Shot
by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 10:37 AM EDT
67 comments
Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Chris Nelson.
It isn't strange that fighters utter the words "title shot" prematurely in this sport. In fact, it's probably one of the most common things among competitors who are looking to show their confidence to the fans, garner a little interest, and give themselves a shove into the limelight at the top of their division. The latest fighter to put title talk into the heads of fans is Mike Swick:
"I think it will be very exciting! He is a tough opponent who is scrappy and likes to clinch and bang. I definitely will want to bang so it should be good!I just fight who they tell me. Ben’s name came up as an available opponent and I said ok…. I think an exciting win in Germany will grant me a title shot. At least, thats what I hope."
Does Mike Swick deserve a title shot if he impressively brutalizes Ben Saunders at UFC 99? My personal opinion is that he's far from a title shot in terms of proving his skills. Moving down to 170, a knockout win over Jonathan Goulet doesn't exactly provide me with solid proof that he can suddenly hang in there with guys like Georges St. Pierre, Thiago Alves, and the rest of the group in the upper echelon of the division. Wins over Burkman and Davis are solid, but I'm not convinced.
There is always another side to the argument though, and I'll take Brent Brookhouse's thoughts on Kongo into this equation. First and foremost, Swick has had the exposure: not only did he have a stint on The Ultimate Fighter, but he's fought in a total of 9 UFC events with a lot of those fights gaining exposure to a national audience. His knockout of Goulet was on a free UFC show, and his win over Marcus Davis was televised at UFC 85.
He's also in the fortunate situation of having his own teammates near the top of the food chain. It's well known that the AKA guys won't fight each other, and this eliminates the possibility of Swick taking on Josh Koscheck or Jon Fitch in the division.
Does Mike Swick deserve a title shot? I'll stick with my guns and say "no," because I believe the UFC hype machine has created this aura around Mike Swick of being this unbelievably great fighter which he's just not at this point in his career.
Would I be surprised if he was given a premature title shot with a huge win over Ben Saunders? Absolutely not, because I know that Swick not only has the exposure to give him the marketability factor in getting some drawing power in a title shot situation, but he is also fortunate enough to be a bright spot in a division that's beginning to lack a little depth near the top.
What do you think?
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LOL, good to see that I’m not the only one who thinks that same of Mike Swick.
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by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The difference here...
is that there are still some options for GSP. With Kongo there were these potential huge stars that I didn’t want to see getting rushed into the title picture before being at something close to high value.
Swick has some recognition from TUF and his many UFC fights…but the division isn’t quite the mess that heavyweight is where I wanted a marketable guy to get a title shot (that he’d probably lose) just to let that next wave of talent build a bit. I think if he beats Alves GSP has some other fights at 170. Swick doesn’t get a title shot after beating Saunders in my book
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t a comparison however. I see the huge differences in Kongo and Swick. But the points you made are what I wanted to focus on in terms of Swick being a convincing draw for a title shot. He isn’t in my mind, and I don’t think he’s proven anything yet.
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by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right...
I’m just saying that while preaching marketability myself…I don’t want to give the idea that I think in every situation “just give it to the marketable guy”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 24, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not. I think regardless of Swick’s exposure, he shouldn’t even be in the talk by the UFC. Hopefully that’s the case.
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by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, King Kong Bundy man!!
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A strong part of Kongo’s marketability, beyond his look, is his aggressiveness. Swick comes across as a softee in every single fight and interview I’ve ever seen.
by asa on Apr 24, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, when I asked him that and then saw his reply…I was like wtf?
http://www.mmaforreal.com
by Kelvin Hunt on Apr 24, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought he shouldve gotten a title shot at MW after he beat the Crow. If he beats Saunders and GSP gets through Alves i cant see another WW contender besides fitch that GSP could face.
by Brian Bobby on Apr 24, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kampmann.
I want to see Kampmann vs. Swick for the next title shot, for sure. Maybe they can put it together some time in August/ September.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 27, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me 2
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Apr 24, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Title shot? Nope.
He needs to beat Saunders and then beat someone like Dan Hardy or Anthony Johnson.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Apr 24, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see him beating Anthony Johnson or Dan Hardy but you are right.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Apr 24, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see him beating Johnson. I could see him beating Hardy but not Johnson. Johnson is a force at 170.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Apr 24, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, I don’t think that Anthony Johnson or Dan Hardy are higher up the food chain than Mike Swick. Johnson doesn’t reality have a win over a Top 10 UFC guy, and even assuming that Hardy beats Davis, Swick has ALREADY beaten that guy.
The things working against Swick are that he hit a wall at middleweight, and when he dropped to Welterweight, he entered the division behind teammates in the queue…teammates he says he’d never fight. Thus, while they get the solid opponents who move them up the ladder, and keep them in the title picture, he gets second-tier guys, and potential prospects, which limits his profile.
by madiq on Apr 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might not be higher up but they are exciting fighters that would make an exciting fight that would launch him towards a title shot.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Apr 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"teammates he says he’d never fight"
This is why not fighting teammates is bullshit. So what are these guys supposed to do? I will never figure out why someone would make a decision that by making it would in fact make sure they never achieve success at their craft. Sure these guys can obtain minimal success, but not the level of success that they are looking for.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
He doesn’t respect his teammates enough to fight them I suppose. A lot of guys are like that in this sport. Afraid to lose and then have to look the person who beat you in the face while training.
by asa on Apr 24, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify ..
I realized that my words suggest that fear itself is the factor, rather than the emotional awkwardness or submissive nature in that relationship.
by asa on Apr 24, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you are saying, but
we find out all of the time that a fighter who beat an opponent ends up training with them sometimes down the line. This is business & to me, these guys should be looking out for #1 (themselves) while being a good teammate for everything else.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think its harder for them when there’s an established relationship and bond beforehand, which I think is hard to reconcile after the fight.
But I think they should all be willing to fight each other anyway. If you won’t do ti with your teammate then its makes the sport look a little barbaric.
by asa on Apr 24, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it just me,
but if this was the profession I chose I would not feel the same way that these guys do. The only exception that I will give is if one of your “main” close teammates is the champ.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I think its -to use the technical term for it: weak-sauce.
My buddies and I would beat the shit out of each other after school just to try out different things with each other. We all got fucked-up. Street fighter, Thai fighter, Shoto, it didn’t matter. We tried our best and learned from the beatings. No hard feelings.
I understand the emotional aspect of it, but that’s a battle that has to be won for this sport to go much farther socially.
by asa on Apr 24, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know & these guys have tons of money & a belt on the line.
To me, if this is your feeling then you have no real aspirations in this sport & are just “working.”
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that I don’t think Dana White gives a shit. If it came down to it, what can they potentially do in that situation if Dana White says “You’re fighting Koscheck or Fitch.” They can’t do shit, that’s what.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have to sign the bout agreement
Or get benched.
by asa on Apr 24, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, they could pull a Silva-Leites.
by madiq on Apr 24, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dana would probably go off the deep end if that happened after knowing he put two AKA fighters against one another.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much of an autocratic dickhead as Dana White can be...
I just don’t see him doing that. I think that even Dana can understand how hard that would be.
And IMO, it’s not ‘cowardly,’ to refuse a fight with a teammate. The kind of hours of hard work that they spend together, sparring, rolling, hanging out, etc. builds a very strong bond, and it would be heartless to make 2 members of the same camp fight eachother.
Remember the backlash from the Fitch incident? It would be WAY worse than that.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 27, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be perfectly honest, Saunders might be a tough task as well. His height and size for 170 are advantageous attributes, and he trains with ATT, which leads me to believe his Muay Thai and jiu-jitsu are going to be potentially formidable for Swick.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swick, Johnson, and Hardy have quality fights coming up....
All 3 of them have had quality wins lately…. they all 3 need to win their next fights… maybe a matchup between any of those 3 could make a good #1 contender match for GSP/Alves.
I think Johnson has the most potential of the 3.
by Gunslinger20 on Apr 24, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I agree I would like to see any of those fights. The only reason for Swick to ever get a shot at GSP is so that he can complete the cleanout of the AKA welterweight pool.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Apr 24, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
love Swick but he would definately need at least one more quality win after Saunders. Id really like to see Swick take on either Johnson or Hazelette next
by moopwontplay on Apr 24, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dustin is done for the year...
so he is out of the picture for now
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 24, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swick should take on Carlos Condit if he beats Saunders, not Anthony Johnson. Johnson needs a couple more wins himself before he’s in the league of Kampmann/Swick/Condit. He might look impressive, but he hasn’t really beaten anyone any good yet.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Apr 24, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think honestly if Kampmann gets one more win…. he’ll get the next shot, everyone else that could be in the title picture need 2 or 3 more wins before a title shot could be truly “justified”.
by Gunslinger20 on Apr 24, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I mean, who else is left for GSP to beat? Kos might have been on his way to a shot until the Thiago loss, but after Alves there’s not a lot on the horizon.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Apr 24, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those AKA guys need to mix their camps up… i’d like to see some of them fight each other
by nastyem on Apr 24, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They may not have a choice
Pending St. Pierre manages to get by the “Pitbull”, he would have already beaten everyone who have established top 10 spots at 170lbs in the UFC, besides Condit and Kampmann are both fresh off their first fights in the UFC’s welterweight division.
So with Swick and his stablemates not willing to fight each other, there is no other real option. Especially if Swick is impressive in dispatching Ben Saunders… with the current title picture, they will have no choice but to grant him a title shot.
On the flip side, if Saunders manages to throw a monkey wrench in the storyline by pulling off the upset, which I do believe is very probable. I could see them rushing Kampmann into a title shot and putting the hype machine on full blast, but it would be best for him to have a dominant performance before throwing him in against GSP.
Unless the people at Zuffa responsible for making it happen don’t feel comfortable in slating in Swick or Kampmann too soon, then they will have to keep St. Pierre busy by setting up a super fight between him and “Spider” Silva. Which would give the division time to clean itself up a bit in which we could see a great fight between Swick and Kampmann for a #1 contender spot.
The scenario will be much more clear and easier to discuss after UFC 100.
by Footstomps on Apr 24, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just do not see Dana/UFC
wanting Swick vs GSP for anything. What does this fight offer that GSP vs Fitch did not have? Swick has KO’d some lesser opponents, but what about his game would truly give GSP any pause or fear?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Exactly, I don’t think Swick offers anything new or threatening to St. Pierre, who has beaten just about every style there is. I feel its too early for Swick and/or anyone else in the division right now, and they should take advantage of the super fight opportunity with Anderson. Personally, I could care less about Okami getting his shot at Silva, I disagree with people overvaluing him and ranking him as high as #2 in the division.
The interest in that rematch has passed with Okami being sidelined with the hand injury and he has not looked overly impressive as of late and it gives him the chance to actually fight someone which would make him more deserving of a title shot, maybe the loser of Henderson – Bisping. I doubt they would match him up with Marquardt or Maia who should be fighting each other to determine the next title challenger after the winner of Hendo and Bisping.
by Footstomps on Apr 24, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"what about his game would truly give GSP any pause or fear?"
If this is a real decision making component, then Dana should just retire the Welterweight and Middleweight divisions. Both have Champions that seem to be head and shoulders above their competition.
Therefore the logic behind the decision making should be “Who is going to be agressive and try and take the title from GSP/Silva?” For my money, I think Swick would make for an entertaining fight, as long as it lasted. I’m not sure if that puts him above a couple other guys.
by Razreshat on Apr 24, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think that right now anyone in the UFC considers Swick a viable option for GSP?
Styles make matchups & the UFC does not want do GSP vs Fitch II, which Swick is a poor mans Jon Fitch.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swick is a poor mans Jon Fitch.
Really?
Fitch is a world class grappler who lacks a strong enough stand up game to get to a take down on GSP.
Swick is a pretty good striker with some decent Jiu Jitsu…unless I am forgetting something.
by Razreshat on Apr 24, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Swick is a pretty good striker with some decent Jiu Jitsu, Fitch is a world class grappler who lacks a strong enough stand up game"
Do I really need to explain after you wrote that? Fitch is great, but he will never be able to do anything without striking. Swick is an alright striker, but the ground is not his strong suit.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 24, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
so, since they have opposite weak spots one is the poor version of the other?
I don’t think that terminology means what you think it means.
by Razreshat on Apr 24, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was not referring to their actual styles.
Fitch is great at wrestling & nothing else. Swick is an alright striker & nothing else. Therefore, Swick could be considered a poor mans Fitch IMO.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Apr 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Catch 22
A plug for the book if you haven’t read it, just finished it, fabulous. But Welterweight is a catch 22 right now – almost as bad as Middleweight. Really, your top contender is still probably Fitch, I think he’s the only guy that could come close to hanging with GSP. Unfortunately Fitch has been sidelined so we’ve seen the emergence of Kampmann, Johnson, Condit, Swick; but as previously said, all of them are new to the division. Not sure a Fitch-GSP rematch will generate interest, but neither will anyone else at Welterweight at the moment. UFC has some talent disparity issues of late…
by Fooshnickens on Apr 24, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to lose a fight, then lay on top of Heath Herring for 3 rounds. That is the most surefire way to get a title shot.
by Farthammer on Apr 24, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Or perhaps he should be...
in a relatively weak division with a older champ looking for a big payday. Oh, and also have alot of personal fame to bring fans in for the fight so that its is a huge payday.
Are you having trouble getting over someting?
by Razreshat on Apr 24, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I put yes only if it is impressive. I can’t think of somebody right now after Alves who should get a shot it would of been Koscheck if he beat Paulo Thiago but right now I can’t think of anybody maybe Kampmann?
by The Legend on Apr 24, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it pains me to say this, but...
… they could make gsp and the spider the coaches on the next season of TUF, and let the contender situation sort itself out in the meantime.
don’t really see any point in rushing the super fight. and that’s assuming that gsp gets past alves, which i’m not entirely convinced of at this point.
by woooburn on Apr 24, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What would it be, Ultimate Fighter: Canada vs. Brazil? How long until we just roll our eyes at the subtitles?
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Apr 24, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they could potentially push Middleweights and Welterweights and press to get the best talent out there not in the UFC for those divisions as they have been problematic in the past in terms of guys who can contend with both champions.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 24, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Ultimate Fighter
Who needs subtitles to get your eyes rolling?
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Apr 25, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Swick wins his next fight, have him fight Kampmann for a title shot.
by Zack Gobie on Apr 24, 2009 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats quite a lay off for Kampmann…. and unless they do the Anderson Silva vs GSP superfight (pending he can beat Alves) thats a while before the WW belt gets defended again.
This is a weird situation, I don’t think Kampmann can wait for Swick, Johnson, or Hardy to see who gets a shot.
I say Kampmann should fight Koscheck, at least if Koscheck is recovered from his injury. If Kampmann beats Koscheck, he’s earned a title shot in my mind.
by Gunslinger20 on Apr 24, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this. Kos/Kampmann sound good, considering Kampmann’s one real weakness is his wrestling. If he can get past Kos, he’s worthy. From a fan perspective though, watching Condit trying to sub Kos from the bottom or sweep him would be much more entertaining.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Apr 24, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with ya, Kos vs Condit would be a great fight….. I wouldn’t give either of them a title shot if they win though.
It seems like the only 3 WW’s that don’t have a fight already lined up in the next 3 months that would be worth mentioning are Kampmann, Condit, and Koscheck…… Kampmann and Condit have already fought so to me the Koscheck fight makes sense. Condit is on the outside looking in right now, I bet he gets a guy making his UFC debut or something next just to get back on track.
by Gunslinger20 on Apr 24, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
swick will get the shot just so Goldberg can say “punches in bunches” and “swickatine” enough to make me puke
by Ozone on Apr 24, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Swick ahs to wait until GSP is done with Alves and Anderson Silva.
Then, and only then, is he a shot for a shot.
And even then, he has to beat someone nasty to earn it.
But I do like watching him fight. the nickname works.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Apr 25, 2009 3:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ben Should Get the Title Shot
I strongly believe Ben has superior standup and you will see it in this fight against Swick. Maybe i am just saying that cause he is from my home town but I think if he beats up Swick, and fights another A class fighter he would be in contention for a title shot. Go Killa B!
by lorbocaust on Apr 25, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Real Question
While I don’t belive Swick deserves a de facto title shot if he can dispose of Saunders, I think it’s important to not confuse the question of “deserves a title shot” and “can actually beat GSP.”
On paper no WW in the world can beat GSP, but it’s still important that viable threats are put in place to try to do just that. Do I think Swick (or Saunders for that matter) could stop GSP? No way. But he has a puncher’s chance — or in Ben’s case, a clincher’s.
I don’t agree that the UFC has a lack of talent at WW. I think what you’re seeing is the greatness gap that fighters like GSP pose — that the other top fighters in the world look lost trying to compete. Swick is a tough guy and doesn’t get the credit he derves, but is he deserving of a title shot? I don’t think so — 2 more quality wins and he’ll have paid his dues.
That said, don’t count out Saunders in this fight. He’s got a ton of reach and will gladly trade with Swick — and Mike will gladly trade back.
by PackMMA on Apr 26, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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