Anderson Silva vs. Roy Jones Junior Won't Happen Anytime Soon If Ever
by Michael Rome on Apr 21, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
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Despite Roy Jones' suggestions to the contrary, the fight between Jones and Anderson Silva will almost surely never happen, at least not on a major stage. First of all, Silva has 3 or 4 more fights on his current deal. The deal is not done in September. Silva signed a six fight extension in 2008.
The second obstacle is Anderson's contractual status. If he continues to win, his contract automatically extends under the championship clause. If he loses, the value in this fight pretty much disappears. He's trapped in the contract, which may explain his recent tantrums.
The third obstacle is that there's no money in this if Anderson loses and the UFC isn't involved. Without UFC promotion, this fight is worthless on PPV, and the UFC will never be involved in promoting this. They don't want to push an MMA vs. boxing fight where they think they will lose, and they certainly won't do it for someone outside of their organization. Without proper footage of Silva, and without the UFC marketing machine, this is just another fight. If Anderson left the UFC tomorrow and went to Affliction, their numbers wouldn't go up. In fact, they might go down. He is now probably bordering on being a negative draw. If it was such a big draw to have a big name boxer against a former MMA champion, we would have seen it by now.
If the fight does happen, it'll be in a long time, and it won't be the super fight people think of now. It will be interesting to see what Roy thinks of the vanity project once he realizes nobody cares anymore.
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Not to mention...
that it sounds like Jones is proving that he is worthless as a draw. No one wants to see the guy who USED to be great compete like a mere over the hill boxer. And Jones if Jones becomes someone people want to see because he is winning he’ll be much more interested in another title shot…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions
This is all good news
Of course, it presupposes that Anderson’s performances = frustration with his situation. Which I don’t buy.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 21, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m really interested in what exactly is motivating this behavior by Anderson. My best guess is that it’s the Jones fight, but I’m a rather uninformed internet speculator, so my guessing is moot. I need facts.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
I think you both underestimate the power of mainstream publicity. Anderson Silva has been touted as the #1 pound-for-pound fighter by Dana White, and the rest of the MMA Media, for at least a year, and unless the wheels fall off, he’ll be known as an all-time great. And that’s assuming he doesn’t fight and defeat Georges St. Pierre, the organization’s other P4P contender. Hell, even in his broken-down state, Chuck Liddell could box a big name boxer and garner a fair amount of mainstream publicity.
Furthermore, I think that you’re forgetting how the different payscales line up. Anderson Silva could make at least a million dollars for a main event against Roy Jones Jr., and win or lose, he gains international exposure. That means that if he ever wants to come out of retirement, and return to MMA, the outcome of the fight becomes a footnote when compared to the fact that he will be remembered as a UFC champion who tried his hand at a different sport. Michael Jordan retired from basketball and fizzled out in his attempt to become a baseball player, but people cared about the endeavor. But like I said, if he really is retiring from fighting, then it doesn’t matter; the payday is just cake.
If Anderson Silva retires as Middleweight Champion, and attempts to box, then the UFC will find themselves in a tough spot. Remember, they were able to enforce the Champion’s Clause against Randy Couture because he wanted to fight for a competing MMA organization. The question really hasn’t been settled whether they can stop a retired UFC fighter from boxing, kickboxing, or doing pro wrestling after his career ends, but I’m inclined to say that the answer is no.
It covers all combat sports...
I’m 90% sure of that
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Technically, they can. The non-compete clause would be subject, and I believe there is a clause that if the fighter retires, that fighter can’t go into any other combative sport. This combats guys retiring to simply leave the UFC.
The problem with these types of clauses is that there has to be a time length on them. No court in the world would enforce a perpetual clause, let alone even a year to two year clause. These have been especially fought in corporate employment cases.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 21, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, non-compete clauses can’t be overbroad in scope, geography and duration. Geography wouldn’t really apply here. All of combat sports would probably be reasonable in scope but that’s debatable. And it certainly couldn’t be forever but a couple of years would probably be a reasonable duration.
So you’re looking at 3ish years and then Roy Jones is OLD, as he’s 40 already. Not looking good for Anderson.
by kp the ghost on Apr 21, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve said this before but they are just totally different fighters. Roy has been badly faded since the second Tarver fight. He hasn’t beat anyone that’s anything since 2003. Tito Trinidad was a shot, blown up welterweight and that’s his most notable victory since the second Tarver fight. Every time Roy has stepped up since that fight, he’s been badly beaten (Glen Johnson, Tarver again, and Calzaghe). Bernard has been beating or losing close decisions top level opposition the whole time (beat Wright, Pavlik, Tarver, lost razor thin decisions to Taylor x2 and Calzaghe).
Roy needs speed and reflexes with how he fights, those are gone with age. Bernard is much craftier and more of a mauler. He fights uglier. There is a huge difference.
by kp the ghost on Apr 21, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
You beat me to that one.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
So is it that you’d pick Anderson Silva to win, or that you’d pick Jones to win, but look bad in the process? Because I think that we all agree that Roy Jones Jr. in his prime probably destroys Silva in a straight boxing match.
But here’s an interesting question: What if Anderson Silva decides that he’d rather box with his opponents from here on out, and still wins?
I can say...
that I personally think Jones would just toy with Anderson for four 3 minute rounds (the appropriate length of such a fight) and carry him to a decision
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys are misunderstanding what happened in the Randy contract situation.
The non-compete clause is what said that the IFL couldn’t have an Extreme Couture team coached by Randy.
Randy couldn’t go fight for Affliction, not because of the non-compete or the champions clause, but because he owed the UFC fights.
If Anderson retires owing the UFC fights, he’s not going to be able to fight anywhere else until he fights them.
the champions clause was only not an issue because he had fights left. If he finished all 4 fights and then tried, the champions clause would have stopped him.
Ever since Randy, the UFC has rewritten contracts and had their fighters sign new contracts covering all potential holes they see. It’s going to be tougher than ever to get out.
by Michael Rome on Apr 21, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s sort of what I was saying.
The champions clause hasn’t been challenged or upheld because Randy had fights left. And it probably won’t ever be tested, because the UFC will keep signing top fighters to extensions to keep them with fights on their contract.
They have lots of tools to keep people tied up, and they aren’t afraid to use them.
Look at how the end of Arlovski’s contract worked. Look at Tito and Huerta now. Getting out of a contract is not an easy thing to do.
Yea, there are also new clauses they’ve added…there are a number of obstacles.
by Michael Rome on Apr 21, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Mainstream publicity <> MMA Media.
For the most part the mainstream media does not know of, and does not care, for Anderson Silva.
While that’s true, they do know who Roy Jones Jr. is, and the Kimbo Slice phenomenon showed just how quickly a little bit of media coverage and buzz in the blogosphere can snowball into something that people care about.
If Anderson Silva becomes MMA’s Curt Flood, that too would probably be worth an E:60 segment or two.
So all he has to do is punch a few guys in a warehouse
and put the video on YouTube?
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
The other thing, this isn’t a guaranteed multimillion dollar payday.
Jones isn’t the draw he once was, the guy he fought at March Badness got 50k. And looking at those salaries, it’s not like Jones is making a ton of cash running these shows. He’s not the draw he once was, and Silva probably isn’t going to to bring enough to boost the salary anywhere near what he is getting from the UFC.
Everyone acts like boxing salaries are some sort of gold standard, yes, the top boxers get a ton of money. But Roy Jones isn’t a top boxer anymore, and he isn’t getting paid like one.
Furthermore, I think that you’re forgetting how the different payscales line up. Anderson Silva could make at least a million dollars for a main event against Roy Jones Jr., and win or lose, he gains international exposure.
Roy Jones Jr isn’t even that big of a draw in boxing anymore. He isn’t headlining HBO PPV’s he doing smaller self produced cards that aren’t paying guys big money (just look at the March Badness card payouts). Now Anderson Silva has a ppv cut on his current UFC contract so he could make more than a million with them (provided he doesn’t scare away all the viewers with his performances) but it is doubtful he could make it fighting on a Roy Jones Jr produced card.
Also who is going to sanction this fight? Anderson Silva has no boxing experience, they are going to have to go the same route that Tim Sylvia vs Ray Mercer is going and fight a place where they can do where there is no sanctioning body. Not being able to do this in a bigger market is going to hurt their gate and not being sanctioned is going to make the whole thing look pretty sketchy.
speaking of mma/boxing competition....
has this unbelievable gem been discussed yet?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=56116020
haven’t checked the site in a couple days, so i apologize if this has already been done to death.
Wow. The shadowboxing clips were...
…uh… slow. Made them both look kind of retarded.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
Mainstream publicity <> MMA Media.
For the most part the mainstream media does not know of, and does not care, for Anderson Silva.
SO sick of hearing about this.
I’d like to see Anderson Silva deliver a well-fought MMA match before we start talking about him and boxing. His last impressive performance was nine months ago.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 21, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Wow, can you say “Short Attention Span?” By that logic, no one should care about Chuck Liddell either.
News flash:
After Saturday, nobody does.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have to disagree
with that Anderson is a negative draw, your everyday wrestling, boxing, MMA fan probably is 50/50 with watching him fight, but I think true MMA fans and fighters themselves enjoy his fights, sure I would have liked for him to go ahead and knock out Thales in the third or fourth round, but what he has been able to is absolutely amazing to me, this guy is fighting the best fighters in the world at his weight class, going 1,2,3,or 5 rounds WITHOUT GETTING HIT, thats pretty cool if you ask me, and even if I’m in the minority I really enjoy watching it
What if...
Silva gets himself DQ’d (ala his fight against Okami) in the last fight on his contract? Champions clause would be out the window and he would still have the marketability as a monster.
Another what if: the UFC makes Silva’s last three fights at 205 without stripping him of the title. Would the champions clause still apply?
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Can't he just give up the title
You don’t have to be champ if you don’t want to be
Ask Randy about that.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
But doesnt the champions clause mean you indefinetely have one more fight on your contract, unless you retire?
It means they extend your contract for a set number of fights or a set amount of time to give them the opportunity to negotiate a new contract not that they hold you against your will forever. A infinitely extending contract wouldn’t hold up in court. Sherdog says that it extends the contract for three fights or one year depending on which comes first:
Sherdog.com has confirmed the existence of a so-called champion’s clause, which provides that “if, at the expiration of the Term, Fighter is then UFC champion, the Term shall be automatically extended for a period commencing on the Termination Date and ending on the earlier of (i) one (1) year from the Termination Date; or (ii) the date on which Fighter has participated in three (3) bouts promoted by ZUFFA following the Termination Date (”Extension Term"). Any references to the Term herein shall be deemed to include a reference to the Extension Term, where applicable."
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/inside-the-standard-zuffa-contract-9734
Of course that still had absolutly nothing to do with the Randy Couture case. Randy still had fights left on his fighter contract and he had a second UFC contract as on air talent that had a no compete clause in it too.
Filling Silva's Head With Notions of a Mike Tyson pay day
The people pushing for this Roy Jones Jr. matchup are likely filling Silva’s head with the idea that he can get a huge Mike Tyson like pay day (20-30 $ million). Of all the current UFC champions, Silva is probably the least compensated. And as Dana is always touting Silva as the best pound for pound fighter in the world, this lack of compensation is probably nawing away at Silva.
But really you have to lay a lot of the blame for Silva not being a big draw right on Silva’s door step. Silva appears still to speak almost no English. So he can not go out and promote like the other guys. Appearing on radio and tv shows is a crucial aspect of fight promotion. I’ve heard him on radio shows with a translator and it really doesn’t come across well.
Also at a time when he should be coming in to his own and making his biggest pay days, he turns in two of the weirdest performances of his career.
I’ve heard the opposite, that he isn’t boxing for the money, but for the competition. My point was that if people think that the “lost paydays” of refusing to re-sign for a three- or four-fight UFC deal will deter him from boxing, when he could make the amount of his entire UFC deal in one fight, they should reconsider their analysis.
You do know that UFC fighters with ppv cuts can easily clear a million dollars a fight if it scores a decent ppv buyrate, those guys make a lot more off the ppv cut than they do their athletic commission listed base pay. Hell Anderson Silva is probably already making more off his fights that has been Roy Jones Jr is. If Anderson Silva is thinking about doing this for the money then he’s making a really poorly thought out decision, Roy Jones Jr’s last opponent made $50,000.
Silva wants the boxing fight to happen.
And he’s ensuring that Dana has little reason to stop it.
Frankly, Dana should tell him he can take the boxing match IF he can win the title at 205. And if the UFC takes half the gate.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
The UFC won’t cross promote anymore. And I doubt they’d be willing to risk their brand for a one-time pay day, regardless of how big. The last thing they want is for their P4P king to get beat by a boxer who is at the end of his career.
Right now, doesn't matter.
Might as well take the payday. Nobody is going to pay $50 to watch Silva headline a show anymore without the cross-prom gimmick.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
People are really living in the MMA bubble if they think Silva is going to mean anything outside the UFC. He has no name value or drawing power in the United States. And even if he wants to retire and then fight in boxing, he is facing multi-year litigation over it.
Anyone know what Silva's PPV buy rates are like?
Because I thought I saw somewhere that generally they seem to be low. The guy is in the prime of his career, and if the UFC has trouble convincing the public that Silva is the guy everyone should pay to see, then what hope does he have without the UFC hype machine? After all, there’s no way they’d let anyone use fight footage of Silva, and presumably if he loses the belt, and decides once his contract is up that he wants to box Jones, chances are the UFC will then start blasting some negative words his way like they seem to do with a lot of fighters that end up departed from the UFC (eg: he’s washed up, his time is done, etc). I’m pretty skeptical this will even happen now, and if all the contract rangling is correct, then he’s f’d. I guess it’s a decent explanation for his performance on Saturday. I dunno, someone correct me if I’m wrong on those buy rates.
if anderson silva had the option of cutting from the ufc and going somewhere else right now it would be the biggest mma news of the year. but i cant prove it any more than you can prove that affliction buyrates would go down when anderson leaves. theres no solid comparison since tuf came out. i cant imagine the espn that spent tons of time doing pieces on randy coutures attempted resignation not covering a ufc champion bouncing to another promotional entity. im sorry but that sounds ridiculous.
You’re right, a brazilian that speaks no english and draws nothing would really draw comparable attention to Randy Couture. He just signed an extension last year that included more obstacles to him leaving.
by Michael Rome on Apr 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
and thats why you or i cant prove our points. hes not leaving, hes not going anywhere, he cant contractually. but you know playboy, theres a problem. him signing a contract extension has nothing to do with how espn would cover anderson silva leaving ufc real sudden like to go fight somewhere else. its one thing to try and get out and fail, but if anderson actually succeeded or was let go by the ufc that would be a whole lot bigger than brock/mir 2 being announced or akiyama getting signed.
by nigelzackit on Apr 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would ESPN give a fat rat’’s ass if Anderson Silva left the UFC? Randy Couture was the face of the company and they just barely noticed that he left, Brock Lesnar was a guy that got huge coverage for trying to go from pro wrestling to pro football, Anderson Silva is a Brazillian guy who doesn’t even speak english and has the lowest buyrates of all of the UFC’s champions. ESPN wouldn’t care if Anderson SIlva got out of the UFC and signed to fight Roy Jones Jr and grew to 50 feet tall and attacked New York City, he just doesn’t have any mainstream appeal at all currently.
there isnt a way silva leaves the ufc that isnt big news. who are you kidding? they blazed tim sylvia/ray mercer on the bottom line of espn, they’d make anderson silva being fired/released from his contract/defecting to somewhere else one of their top stories of the day.
That really doesn’t mean it’s big news though.
It will be on the bottom line. But they won’t talk about on sportscenter, and it won’t be a blip on the radar of anyone outside the hardcore fanbase.
They put tons of random soccer scores on there all the time and no one cares. They actually gave the NCAA hockey championship decent coverage and 95% of espn’s viewership probably has no idea who won.
This would not be a blip on the radar of the larger sports universe.
i dont care who it is or how ‘unmarketable’ they are, the first ufc champion who would successfully defect from the company with their title and go elsewhere would be a story across blogs, espn, and talk radio. to act like mma fans wouldnt notice is stupid.
to act like mma fans wouldnt notice is stupid.
MMA fans would definitely notice. No one else would give a damn.
those are the most important people that need to notice, arent they? letting a champion go to another promoter instantly gives them credibility. aint happening, obviously. if it did it would be gigantic.
those are the most important people that need to notice, aren’t they?
My bad. I didn’t differentiate between the hardcore and casual.
The hardcores make up an incredibly small amount compared to the casual fanbase. Now compare that to the rest of the population that hasn’t heard of MMA or don’t care (which is most sports fans). If it’s not getting their attention, it’s not going to make headlines on ESPN.
Yeah, the blogs and other MMA media would be all atwitter about it but that’s about it.
and casual fans dont know who anderson silva is? who watched that fight night last summer when he fought irvin?
They know but they don’t care about the silly politics they are the people who just like to watch the fights and casual fans weren’t paying to watch much of Anderson Silva anyway(he’s the lowest drawing champion in the UFC).
if anderson silva was out of the ufc and on strikeforce in july i think people take it a little differently than some blog posts about how unhappy dana is. dana aint firing his ass no matter how worthless you think anderson is because dana didnt get to the top of the world and beat boxing by being stupid. he cant take away that title. he cant take away the structure of his contract. he cant force him to fight light heavyweights or heavyweights.
think long and hard why he keeps mentioning a fight that wont ever happen. why does he do that? gotta have a reason.
What makes that all the funnier is that you apparently don’t know that a UFC champion already has successfully “defected” from the company before :D
BJ Penn left the UFC when he was the welterweight champion to fight for K-1, that’s the whole reason they have a champion’s clause now.
which is why my first post said that there isnt a solid comparison since tuf came out. last i checked penn and pulver bounced before bonnar fought griffin.
So the story of him being the first UFC champion to leave is completly wrong and you yourself already knew that too, boy that lends a lot of creedence to your arguement.
The reason Penn leaving was important is because the UFC has dealt with this before and put safeguards in place to see that it doesn’t happen again like that. Anderson Silva isn’t going anywhere while his contract is in effect and the mainstream press wouldn’t care even if he did. Anderson Silva is no Randy Couture the press just isn’t going to care like you think they would, even MMA fans aren’t going to care like you think they would after Silva’s last couple of performances.
jens pulver lightweight champion, drawing 40000 buys aint anderson silva middleweight champion drawing 300000 buys. you cant even compare the two. i made this clear from the jump just like i did the fact that your/mr. romes opinion isnt something you can prove just as my opinion isnt something i can necessarily prove because it isnt going to happen and theres no recent equivalent. i do remember tito ortiz beign the guy who got all the press interest going into the fight with machida over anderson silva because he had announced in advance that fight was his last, and hes a beat up has been. so much so he was a thrown fight away from getting cbs to buy a crappy promotion and pay his contract.
Tito got a lot of press coverage? Perhaps you mean hardcore fans read about it on the internet but even Tito on Celebrity Apprentice didn’t get him that much mainstream press coverage. I mean Tito may of been right on the verge of signing with CBS but then if you believe Tito he is constantly on the verge of signing with every single company out there. Still not sure what Tito Ortiz (a guy who did over a million buys) is in comparison to Anderson Silva besides a guy who can actually speak english and promote himself in the US.
tito was the one doing interviews with espn, sports radio, and fsn, not anyone else on that card. this just happened a year ago, did you already forget?
im not arguing that tito was about to sign with cbs because he was. ortiz may have been a guy who did a million buys but he wasnt that guy when he left.
You mean ESPN online, and Foxsports online? Pardon me for not getting overly excited about that. Of course he actually is an example of what you are talking about, Tito got as much press as can be expected for a guy leaving the UFC and still no one gave a damn about it. I mean we even had Donald Trump talking about Tito and still no one really cared.
i dont mean espn online. i mean sportscenter. but if you like to have a new version of history im not gonna fight it.
listen, heres the last thing im gonna say – lets say you are right. silva will only hurt pay per views and ticket sales and he cant affect mma or boxing once he leaves the ufc. then tell me why dana white and his boys dont buy his contract out today and send him packing. every time he gets in the cage hes doing damage to them and costing them a lot of money. doesnt matter what the fight is too, because anyone in the same position would do better. i mean if he cant make money then anyone who costs less would be just as good, right? now you tell me then why it isnt gonna happen. what, is dana white stupid?
I never saw Tito on sportscenter, got a link to that?
I never said he was hurting sales and Rome’s point was that Anderson SIlva wouldn’t make Affliction’s number’s go up. If he keeps it up then yes he could become a negative draw. A lot of people seem to be really pissed about this last performance(I think it was overblown but a lot of people are mad).
As far as White buying his contract out why would they do that? When have they ever bought a fighters contract out? They would just sit the guy till his contract was up and not book him for fights and that might still happen I mean it’s only been 3 days since that fight who knows what the UFC will do.
http://www.mmafeed.com/stories/view/1060
http://www.mmaconvert.com/2008/05/24/tito-ortiz-on-espn-sportscenter/
rome said that he is bordering on a negative draw and you seem to agree. if hes even close to a negative draw then hes not doing them any good and he costs more money than nate marqhardt or whoever. if thats the case, get rid of him. theyd be losing money every time he steps in the cage. saying that they never got rid of anyone in the past doesnt matter. they can do it now. dont think they arent smart enough to think of that because theyve tried buying out other fighters contracts from people before. so what is the holdup? what are they thinking that you arent? they must think silva is worth something.
by nigelzackit on Apr 21, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the link(although the video doesn’t seem to want to work) I did miss that.
As I said it’s only been three days since the fight who knows what the UFC will do. You say “what’s the hold up” but hell it’s only been three days since the fight maybe the hold up is that they actually want to sit down and talk to Anderson Silva in him manager and find out what is going on? Perhaps they are working on a plan where they can get Silva a more impressive fight and try to resurect his selling power before they just dump him? I mean you do realize it’s just been three days since the fight happened right?
If they did decide that they didn’t want him anymore then why would they release him (or for some silly reason try to buy out his contract) when all they have to do is sit his ass until the contract is up? They don’t have to pay him if he isn’t fighting, they can make a interim title and sit Anderson Silva for the next year or two if they really wanted to, I mean it’s not like they haven’t sat fighters like that before.
they dont just owe him time dogg, they owe him fights. they can try sitting him till next year if they want. they just would end up in breach of the contract and put themselves at risk of a lawsuit. they arent that stupid. thats why these dudes who get sat until the contract expires are the fighters with one fight left.
the whole resurrecting career thing is a stupid excuse. if no one watches him and no one ever has then youre throwing bad money after good. i dont care if they try and throw him gsp; if silva doesnt draw then its a waste of time with his place on the payscale, and theyd be better off with bisping or henderson in his place as champ.
You really are missing my point.
Hardcore mma fans, that now what this blog is, that know what sherdog is, that know what affliction is. They would care.
That is not who the UFC makes money off of.
The UFC make money from people who think that a sherdog is a puppy and that a bloody elbow is something you only get from falling off of your bike. This will not register. ESPN covered Randy, no one cared.
Anderson isn’t going to get out of his contract, and if by some miracle he does, no one will care. The UFC will have Wandy vs. Hendo for the belt and move forward.
espn covered randy and no one cared because coverage didnt get randy into affliction. let me explain this to you dogg; im not arguing anderson silva getting into a contract dispute would make espn. it wouldnt. im arguing anderson silva successfully leaving with the belt after a win headlining a ppv would be a huge ass story. it would be bigger than anything since pride went off tv in the big picture and the biggest story mma media ever had.
if they could get away with it theyd buyout anderson right now and tell him to scrounge. you see that happening? you think they gonna abandon him? they wont do anything because they have a ton of shows that need a headliner and because he has a title.
If Anderson SIlva could magically escape from his contract and sign with Affliction then it would still not be huge news, especially after the fight he just had. Could Affliction even pay for Anderson Silva at this point? Hell does anyone even have a clue if Anderson Silva is wanting to leave the UFC? He hasn’t ever said anything at all like that and he did just sign a new contract with the UFC, he has talked about retiring but I can’t remember him ever talking about going somewhere else to fight aside from this one boxing match.
That is something out of pure fantasy at this point in time. Even Randy with high priced lawyers and guys like Mark Cuban filing suits on Randy’s behalf got dragged out for almost a year and were not even close to actually going to trial. Heck I’m sure they have even changed their contracts to make this less likely since the Randy Couture incident.
of course its pure fantasy. hey, you must have read my opening point. awesome work dude. i dont really have anything else to say regarding this though. you are furiously opinionated that no one can do anything to draw attention to themselves in the world of mma and i aint seeing it my man.
You said there was no solid comparison not that you were off in a fantasy of what ifs. Seriously I don’t give a damn either way I’m just bored and like discussing MMA issues on the internet. Good grief you’ve made nine post based on something that you know will never happen to try and prove a irrelevant point based on things that didn’t happen (I.E. ESPN never spent tons of time doing pieces on Randy Couture’s attempted resignation they barely mentioned it) and no one who has replied has agreed with you at all or even figured out what you are trying to say yet I am supposed to be the guy who is furiously opinionated? I just thought you were trying to make a relevant point for discussion not dipping into fantasy for no real reason, my bad.
the whole thing is a what if. what do you think arguing that champions can walk out the ufc and go fight for other promoters without there being an effect is? thats fantasyland, dogg. youre arguing something bigger which is that the ufc controls the entire mma world and that no one else can do anything about it. them boys at zuffa are smart as hell but they arent kings of all media. dont fool yourself like that.
if you want to get into specifics about randy, espn ran a 5-6 minute feature the day that came out on sportscenter and a second one that was done for behind the lines. there was also that tsn hit piece on the ufc that was done. what else was there to do with it? couture didnt get free of his contract. you think if he had it would have been irrelevant and not mattered? again, dreamland.
I’m not arguing that the UFC controls everything I’m pointing out that:
1. Anderson Silva isn’t leaving the UFC, he hasn’t even said he was interested in leaving the UFC. Heck he has said numerous times that he was happy in the UFC and planned on finishing his contract.
2. Anderson SIlva couldn’t leave the UFC even if he did want to because he just recently signed a new contract that tied him up with them for a number of fights. His way out would be to retire and the mainstream media wouldn’t care if he retired.
3. Even if Anderson Silva did want to leave and did have some kind of loophole to get out of his contract it still wouldn’t be as big a deal as you seem to think it would be. Anderson Silva isn’t Randy Couture or Tito Ortiz he is a Brazilian fighter who can’t speak english and is the lowest drawing champion currently in the UFC. Of course hardcore fans would care but by and large the same mainstream media that ignores MMA now would keep on ignoring MMA.
4. Even if Anderson Silva wanted out and could get out and miraculously the mainstream media actually noticed then who has the money to pay Anderson Silva as much as he is making now? Is he going to go to Strikeforce or half dead Affliction for less money? Is he going to fight Roy Jones Jr for 50k like Jones Jr’s last opponent did?
You have come up with 10 minutes total on ESPN for the Randy situation at the time when it first went down. That is impressive for a MMA story on ESPN but honestly that isn’t what you seem to think it was, they put more effort into Dana White using foul language than they did the Randy Couture contract situation. Anderson Silva isn’t Randy Couture.
What "recent tantrums"???
Are you asserting that his performance on Saturday was a tantrum? What other “tantrums” are you refering to?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Refusing UFC 95, the performance with Cote…yes, I think these are all at least partially tantrums.
by Michael Rome on Apr 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, I’m sure he’s not the only big name that turned down Ireland. You really, truly think he’s fucking around in the ring to prove a point?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 21, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I shouldn’t even post this b/c I don’t agree with the tantrum arguments but there was speculation that Anderson Silva turned down 95 for no reason other than that he wanted to be on a North American card with higher buyrates and thus a higher PPV%. That could be construed as a tantrum but pretty much every UFC champion is doing that exact same thing and killing the overseas cards.
well then maybe the ufc needs to pay dudes more money up front and they wouldnt have that problem. theyre booking the arenas and paying for the shows.
by nigelzackit on Apr 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Overseas shows make less money and have lower buyrates, if they paid guys that much more money up front for those cards then they would be risking losing money on them(PPV cuts are probably a lot more than base pay even on crappy drawing cards for most top fightes). The ppv buyrate model works well for both sides because it scales pay with how many people actually paid for the show.
im not saying its not working playa. im saying that the fighters arent the ones you need to blame for the ufc overseas cards sucking. if the ufc really wants a big money fight there then they need to bring more money to the table. looking at how things be im gonna guess they dont care.
Is this Teddy Long?
You missed the point, fighters don’t want to fight on the overseas cards because they sell fewer PPVs. Paying the fighters more money isn’t going to change the fact that the overseas PPVs don’t do as well, they weren’t doing good numbers when they did have top guys on them. Guys don’t want to be on tape delayed shows or shows that air at odd times of the day. I’m not saying the overseas shows suck I am saying that the overseas shows don’t sell as many PPVs and fighters that get paid by the PPV clause only want to fight on the biggest best drawing cards.
dogg, you are not listening. like, do you need to be right all the time or something? im not even disagreeing with you and youre trying hard to prove something. damn dude.
lets rewind what im arguing here; if the ufc wants bigger names to fight on overseas cards, they need to pay them more money up front. you are countering that they dont want to fight overseas because the bonuses are low. see, im not arguing against that because what im saying already assumes it to be true. thats why the money has to be there upfront; the counter that theres no bonus money.
His point, I guess, is that the UFC will lose money that way. It presumes that the buyrate ceiling for tape-delayed shows, or shows in different time zones, is lower than North American-broadcast shows, and it will be that way regardless of the stars on the show.
You feel the opposite way, that the shows draw poorly because of the lack of star power, and putting together a superfight will garner international buyrates that rival the stateside ones (likely because the casual fans who make up the bulk of PPV buyers won’t notice the live/taped difference).
Another approach would be just to increase the percentages on PPV bonuses on those overseas cards if they cross a certain threshold. Thus, if the buyrates remain low, the fighters will get slightly more money, but if they manage to draw comparatively larger audiences, then they can be compensated accordingly. Now setting the threshold is something that fighter representatives and Zuffa could hash out, but at least it’s a proactive solution that builds in proper incentives.
But why would Zuffa do that? For both the fighters and Zuffa they make more money if the PPV does more buys so it is in both side’s interest to have the big stars on the shows that get the most viewers. The PPV buyrate cut makes sense in that both sides come out winners with it, obviously the more money a show makes the more money both sides make. The UFC paying guys extra to be on shows that don’t draw as well means that the UFC is losing money of the deal where experience has already shown it isn’t going to make a lot of difference? This isn’t a case of fighters getting the short end of the stick, those guys with PPV cuts can make millions off a big fight it’s a case where the financials don’t work for either side.
Where all this comes into this discussion is that Anderson SIlva was asking the UFC to find him a fight because he wanted to get back out there right after the Cote fight and when they did find him a spot to fight he turned it down. It being overseas was his excuse but when you get right down to it he was the one who asked the UFC to make room on a card for him to have another fight.
The UFC paying guys extra to be on shows that don’t draw as well means that the UFC is losing money of the deal where experience has already shown it isn’t going to make a lot of difference?
MY point is that there isn’t enough experience that shows that big stars on overseas PPVs draw considerably fewer buys than big stars on domestic PPVs. Rampage-Henderson was on Free TV, and got higher ratings, I believe, than Tito-Shamrock. The only other European PPV with a title match on it was Stevenson-Penn, which was advertised as for the Interim Lightweight Championship for the longest time. Sample Size, dude.
And we both agree that it’s in EVERYONE’S best interest if PPVs have more buys, but you seem content to try nothing, and concede low buyrates, while I advocate that they experiment with tweaking the card formats and payscales, and treat their European fans like their American fans, by giving them big fights that matter. I’m sure that a Michael Bisping vs. Anderson Silva Middleweight Title fight is better staged in the UK than in Vegas, don’t you?
Basically my point is that neither of us knows that strengthening the UK cards would make no difference. But consider this, the UFC 96 card, which had a weak main event, underperformed expectations. And it was staged in the US. So maybe the stars do matter, as do the stakes.
Do you think that the UFC hasn’t looked into this? Do you think the fighters who are turning these fights down haven’t seriously considered this? There is a reason they try and stick those shows on SpikeTV every time they can. There is a reason BJ Penn says he will never fight on one of those cards again.
It’s not about trying something new, hell them doing the shows overseas to start with is trying something new (and those shows have lost the UFC a lot of money as is) but the PPV market for the UFC is the US that is where the money comes from that makes this whole industry work. European markets just aren’t developed enough yet.
Do Rampage or Machida or Rashad Evans have PPV cuts? Because if they don’t then the point is irrelevant it’s just the handful of guys with PPV cuts that have problems going overseas.
Then what are we even arguing about? UFC 92 drew over a million buys, and featured Rampage, Wanderlei, Rashad, Forrest, Mir, and Nogueira, guys who apparently don’t have PPV cuts. That means that they’re all available to fight on the overseas cards (and some even have).
However, the common thread in these lackluster buyrate drawing cards is the lack of a title fight. This hypothesis is reinforced by a DOMESTIC card without a title fight (UFC 96) having a buyrate that fell short of expectations. So might the explanation for the lower buyrates — and thus the heart of the solution to the problem — be that there aren’t enough high-profile title fights on the other side of the Atlantic.
Now I understand that the UFC likes having these superfights, or using the Ultimate Fighter program to put the division on hold, but those decisions reduce the number of potential title fights, and put the European cards at a disadvantage. Add in the number of champions that have PPV cuts (Lesnar, GSP, Silva, potentially Penn), and all of a sudden, the Light Heavyweight championship looms large for them.
That said, I suspect that Anderson Silva will make an exception if Michael Bisping beats Dan Henderson.
and so im gonna repeat the same exact thing ive said over and over and over – if the ufc thinks europe cards not having big names its a problem, they know how to fix it. they dont because apparently they arent shook about it. period. end of story. fighters, anderson silva being a fighter and all, arent to blame because the promoter cant make money if they dont take whats basically a paycut.
Did anyone say the UFC thought it was a problem? Has the UFC ever said it was a problem? No one was blaming the fighters for it, no one was blaming the UFC for it, hell no one was blaming anyone for it it was brought up as one of the things Anderson Silva has done recently.
im pretty sure the author of the article that start this thread called it a temper tantrum that he didn’t take fights at ufc 85 or 95. its about twenty replies up.
Huh? You mean this:
Refusing UFC 95, the performance with Cote…yes, I think these are all at least partially tantrums.
What does that have to do with the UFC paying fighters more money to fight overseas? I’ve got a feeling he meant it was a tantrum in the sense tha Silva asked the UFC to get him another fight after the Cote fight and then when they did he passed on it.
so the ufc doesnt have big headliners overseas anymore because the dudes that have percentages want to fight on domestic cards, right? silva is one of those guys, isnt he? but when it comes to him turning down ufc 95, its because you think he was acting like a kid pissed his mom didnt buy him some ice cream, and so that card being second rate was his fault. i think i understand where you coming from.
by nigelzackit on Apr 21, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The show in Germany is being headlined by Rich Franklin vs Wanderlei Silva, and the show in Ireland had Franklin vs Henderson and Shogun vs Coleman on it, it’s not like the shows overseas are devoid of big name talent it’s just those top guys with PPV cuts that are an issue here.
For the record I don’t thing Anderson SIlva was throwing a fit ever that was never my point at all I was just talking about the overseas shows and guys with PPV cuts myself. It does seem odd that Anderson SIlva specifically asked the UFC to get him a fight after the Cote fight because he was so unhappy with that performance but then when they did find him a fight he turned it down for any reason at all.
I don’t know where you are coming from accusing people of claiming that card being what it was was somehow Anderson Silva’s fault, you seem to be reading a lot into what people are saying beyond just what they are saying throughout this entire thread.
rich franklin doesnt get a percentage because he aint a big star on par with the guys who are. period.
its not odd. he wanted a fight but he wanted to make money doing it. as for where im coming from, ‘tantrums’ arent well thought out things. if anderson rejecting a fight at ufc 95 was a ‘tantrum’ and it wasnt him saying ‘i want to fight but im not stupid’, then its pretty obvious where the blame is going for that show being without a title fight or major headliner. and it aint dana
The UFC isn’t going to pay them that kind of money up front to fight overseas(do you understand just how much money is at play when talking about the PPV cuts?). Even if they did it would be a very stupid business move because those shows don’t sell very well anyway, as far as PPVs go they are second tier shows, heck a lot of them end up free on SpikeTV. The problem with the overseas shows isn’t that the fighters aren’t getting paid more in base pay it’s that those shows have historically shown that they don’t do big buy rates even if they do have stars on them.
did i say they were going to? nah, i didn’t. did i say they should? nah, i didn’t. did i say they would sell more tickets or ppvs? nah, i didn’t. what did i say?
‘if the ufc really wants a big money fight there then they need to bring more money to the table. looking at how things be im gonna guess they dont care.’
im not sure how you want me to break that down any more for you. i cant even make smaller words.
i like how u said
“If Anderson left the UFC tomorrow and went to Affliction, their numbers wouldn’t go up. In fact, they might go down. He is now probably bordering on being a negative draw”
i know myself personaly i cant get excited for another silva match unless he is going against someone good! bisping/okami will not do it for me. i could see those going to a decision. they need to hurry up and throw him in lhw and do an u.f.n live quick to try and do some damage control
I think we'd see a 4 round exhibition...
not a fully sanctioned professional fight. It only is going to make money in Florida so I don’t see them going to Alabama or anything…
But again…it’s never going to happen.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 22, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
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