Does Cheick Kongo Deserve a Title Shot?
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 5:17 PM EDT
Email
Print
Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Luke Thomas.
Some bloggers and fans seem to think so. Mark La Monica posted an article over at Newsday's Fightin' Words blog regarding the potential for Cheick Kongo to step in and fight for the Heavyweight title:
OK, now on to the more important stuff: When does Kongo get a shot at the title?
Frank Mir and Brock Lesnar will unify the heavyweight championship belts at UFC 100 in July. Is it too much to ask for Kongo to get a crack at the winner in December? Or do we need to see Kongo fight Shane Carwin (after his broken nose heals) or Cain Velasquez first?
Let's get Kongo in the ring in December or January for the heavyweight title. Who's with me? (Hopefully, Dana White and Joe Silva are, too. We'll ask at the post-fight press conference.)
This is a bit strange to me, but maybe I've lost focus with how shallow the division is or I haven't been paying much attention to Kongo's performances as of late. Kongo is one of the better peformers in the division, and I would definitely consider him on the "outside looking in" when it comes to a title shot, but is he deserving on that shot with wins over Dan Evensen, Mustaph Al Turk, and Antoni Hardonk.
So, what should happen? Mir vs. Lesnar puts us at a legitimate title holder in July, leaving Velasquez and Carwin in the mix. Velasquez still needs a step up in competition, and I'm all for giving him a bout with Cheick Kongo to determine exactly which one of the two fighters is in line for the title. With Carwin's nose in the tank currently, I'm wondering if the UFC pushes the loser of Mir/Lesnar up against Carwin, and creates a Velasquez vs. Kongo matchup for title contention.
Of course, there is always the question as to whether Gabriel Gonzaga is the right type of fighter for Velasquez to take on as a step up in competition, leaving Kongo vs. Carwin as a contender matchup. There are a lot of possibilities, but I'm certainly not inclined to be talking about Kongo as a contender.
Why might I be down on Kongo as a contender? I'm not a huge fan of facing a poor striking Dan Evensen, a newcomer in Mustaph al Turk, and then only having the one solid win over Antoni Hardonk in a 3 fight span as the definitive data driving title talk. Kongo still needs to once again be tested on the floor, and I think Carwin or Velasquez might be able to potentially give him that test. Carwin would undoubtedly try to knock him out, but I think the solid knowledge that Kongo isn't great on the floor could drive that fight to hitting the floor much sooner.
What's your take?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
79 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This is the heavyweight division silly.
All you need for a title shot is to dry hump Heath Herring for 15 minutes.
By that standard, why not give Kongo a title shot?
Cause Herring beat Kongo?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 20, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know, I just thought the comparison was funny. My joke didn’t translate well, I guess. Damn kids and their internets…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 20, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I was mostly kidding too.
But seriously, its hard to argue about how you need tons of credentials to get a title shot in the heavyweight class after Lesnar.
It’s like arguing over rankings – do you weigh actual performances or theoretical matches? Shinya Aoki is one of the most accomplished LWs, but I certainly think Sherk could beat him. Similarly, Lesner was 3-1 before Randy – hardly notable, but he has the raw ability to beat most HW.
This is why we need WAMMA to sort things out for us.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 20, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
okay...
you’re banned ;)
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Kongo needs to fight Junior dos Santos…Santos has called him out by name as someone he’d like to fight…That fight would answered a lot of questions and eliminated one of them as possible contenders…but now he’s(dos Santos) is stuck with McCully.
http://www.mmaforreal.com
by Kelvin Hunt on Apr 20, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ahh, good call. I completely forgot about Santos in that argument.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s the fight I want to see Kongo in. If he could get through Cigano and Carwin/Velasquez, he will have earned a shot at the teetle.
by Chris Nelson on Apr 20, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
One step too far, methinks. If he beat Cigano, he would be in line for a shot. I think Carwin could get a shot in the fall if Lesnar is still the champ, and in beating either Cigano or Velasquez, Kongo (or the individual that beats him) could get a shot in early 2010.
I poop rainbows.
The only problem I have with this is that if he beats Cigano, there is a huge potential for him to get trounced inside a minute by the ground games of guys like Carwin and Velasquez. Hell, even Cigano might just try to submit him as quick as possible.
Mir or Lesnar would undoubtedly steamroll Kongo in my mind, so I’m not overly enthusiastic to see him in the hunt unless he proves he can stop the ground. Evensen, Al Turk, and Hardonk didn’t test him there. Al Turk sort of tried, but he was doing the floppey dope pretty quickly after each punches from his terrible standup defense.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesnar would murder him
But that doesn’t prohibit him from earning a shot. If Lesnar stays the champ, Kongo can never get a title shot? I’m not saying he can beat Velasquez or Carwin, but if he fights Dos Santos (who will bang with him) and wins? Everyone else’s progress would have to be qualified, but he’d be right in there.
I poop rainbows.
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve a shot even though I think Lesnar kills him. I’m just stating how I feel that would go.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That fight would answer a lot of questions
What questions? How Kongo would fare with a stand up fighter? Or how he would fare against a newcomer with a barely established name?
People who flocked to Junior’s bandwagon need to check themselves before they get wrecked. He knocked out one guy and a 20 year old kid. No one “needs” to fight Junior. At this point he is absolutely nobody in the grand scheme of UFC heavyweights.
Kongo’s ground game is his weakness (news flash, right?) which is what the top of the pack at heavyweight is almost exclusively.
There is no point in putting Kongo up against either of the champions if he can’t defeat those beneath them. It just creates a revolving door for the belt. Let him beat one wrestler/bjj guy (besides Heath) and then give him a shot.
It’s also unlikely that it is his fault he’s been kept at a distance from the belt regarding the competition he’s faced. Perhaps he has even been requesting this time to work on rounding out his game before applying for contention. I would hope the latter but lean to the former.
Not even remotely interested...
…in seeing Kongo in a teetle fight for the foreseeable future. If he beats Carwin/Velasquez soundly with no ‘unintentional’ groin shots and in a rather impressive fashion, I’d reevaluate my stance…but for right now, not even close.
That's pretty ridiculous
If he beats Carwin/Velasquez, he’s a title contender, regardless of how he reaches that end.
I poop rainbows.
I respectfully disagree…mostly with the ‘regardless’ part. If he puts up a 3-round borefest, no way he gets a title shot. I’d say one dominant win away, or two other wins…the quality of his past opponents haven’t been all that great. Then again, Mir and Lesnar fall there too…either just a really weak division or very unclear path to the title…probably both.
Cheick Kongo gave me the idea for the handle, honestly.
by inadvertentgroinstrike on Apr 20, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It is still early to be considering him for a title shot, but I also think he doesn’t get nearly enough credit. There are people here talking about how he needs to beat two of Carwin/Velasquez/Cigano, or that beating them would have to be convincing for him to be considered a contender. That’s pretty bogus. He does need a step up in competition, but any one of those individuals would be just that. If they want to tide him off so as to allow two of the other three (or maybe Randy, Lesnar/Mir III, or a newcomer) to get a title shot first, but still have him step up in competition, I could see him facing Gonzaga in late summer/early fall. But the suggestion that it’s ridiculous to put him in the conversation with a victory over one of the aforementioned is just hating on the guy.
I poop rainbows.
Velasquez isn’t technically higher on the totem pole yet, hence why I think Velasquez shoudl fight him to earn some legitimacy to putting himself in the picture.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm on board with that
I’m not totally convinced by Velasquez either, but I’m in the minority. But really, either of those two (him or Cigano).
I poop rainbows.
Well, I’m convinced he’s a hot prospect and likely able to beat someone like Kongo, but on paper looking at his record, I don’t think he’s above Kongo on the totem pole. Skillwise, he probably is.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Kongo has better striking and better GnP, Cain has quality wrestling, and both don’t have any jits. Cain likely has more upside, but I call it pretty close as of right now.
I poop rainbows.
I’d have to give the nod to cain I don’t know maybe I’m the only one but Kongo’s striking looks good on paper but then he fights herring and even hardonk is taking sloppy shots and I’m not really impressed with his ground skills
I think no matter how he progresses, he’ll always get a bum rap. He’s not trying to learn BJJ, but his GnP and ground control have come along by leaps and bounds. That’s the type of fighter he’s going to be. Early on in his career, he was a major liability on the ground, but his control is actually very good now. He has some of the best strikes inside of the guard in heavyweight MMA thanks to his strength and reach. He has really dangerous GnP that he sets up with his standing strikes.
I poop rainbows.
I don’t know I’ll give it he’s definitely a strong heavyweight but he hasn’t exactly been fighting really good jiu jitsu guys Hardonk just kida stalled on the ground trying to control his posture and hoping the ref would stand him up. I don’t think it was a fluke that Herring beat him and if he fought another well rounded fighter the result would be the same.
By the way...
Did anyone else hear Sherdog’s “After the Bell” show where TJ DeSantis called Kongo a prospect?
Yeah, and Breen called him on it too, if I remember correctly.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 20, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
God bless Breen. TJ says a lot of silly things but that stuck out to me in particular.
by Chris Nelson on Apr 20, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
God bless Breen.
Pretty much everything I know about MMA as a sport comes from him and Leland. I owe him a beer.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 20, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I will take a beer right now.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 21, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Where are you again?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 21, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree with the article here. Beating Evensen, Al Turk, and then Hardonk does NOT warrant a title shot. Hardonk was the only fighter that was solid competition. While it looks like Kongo is working on takedown defense, he was badly exposed when he was on his back against Heath Herring (who even said that he didn’t train for any ground fighting for their fight). Against Lesnar or someone that could take Kongo down, I just can’t see Kongo win. As far as contention talk is concerned, Kongo definitely needs to get at LEAST one more win over a solid Heavyweight to be a contender.
Hmm
I would be cool with that….that fight would answer questions…can Carwin face a striker like Kongo…can Kongo survive against a wrestler like Carwin?
http://www.mmaforreal.com
I already think Carwin fights for the title on New Years Eve, especially if Lesnar still has it.
I poop rainbows.
Nah
At least he shouldn’t…he was getting handled by Gonzaga before landing the big right…he can’t earn a title shot just off of that IMO.
http://www.mmaforreal.com
I don’t know about handled, but he was being exposed by some of Gonzaga’s striking acumen. I think if Lesnar is in there, Carwin will be what the UFC rolls with.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't that fight prove more about Carwin
I’m sure if Carwin repeated his Gonzaga performance he’ll be KOed by Kongo in 90 seconds.
Good point. The problem is that both guys would probably think fighting Cain in beneath them unless he beats someone. One of them might be a decent matchup for Carwin though. Kongo vs. either guy in my mind is a bad matchup for him.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s the thing – Kongo v Cain, Carwin, Nog or Randy is bad for him. So how does he get a title shot?
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 20, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t unless he proves he can beat one of them. That’s my argument.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 21, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly why I wrote this piece, I love to hear the different theories, and it always makes for interesting discussions.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite part of pieces that you’ve written like this lately are that they’re bringing attention/credibility to otherwise quality fighters that are being mostly overlooked. I have a problem with people treating divisions as five-deep each worldwide, when they’re often 35-40 deep. The number 29 bantamweight didn’t just pop up there by cold-cocking a guy in a Mexican prison.
I poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Apr 20, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very well said and true.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 20, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
No way, Kongo needs a few more fights before he gets a title shot. Add a poll.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
Good idea, done.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
After the discussion in this post, I’m changing my vote to “No, but one more fight against a solid opponent would do it”
by Chris Nelson on Apr 20, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s the general concensus. I think the article cited is the only one I’ve seen wanting this, but I haven’t scoured my Reader to find out if others agree.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 20, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I Just checked UFC.com and they have it set for UFC 99. I guess if Cain wins he could face Kongo in the fall.
Bring Back BA
I am going with Herring too b/c he has improved not only his conditioning but his diet – he has all the other tools
I don’t think he should be judged too harshly by his fight with Brock Lesnar
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
EXACTLY!!!
The Velasquez nut hugging and “title” contention talks are a little premature considering Cain has to fight Heath Herring….. I don’t think Velasquez gets by Heath Herring, he will have the same result as Kongo did when he fought Heath Herring…. he’ll lose by decision because the step up in competition will force him out of his game. Cain is young and still inexperienced, he’ll get be a much better fighter AFTER Heath Herring beats him.
by Gunslinger20 on Apr 21, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Kongo, Give him a shot
It’s not like UFC HW is filled with talent. Who would Kongo be keeping from a title shot if he fought the winner of Brock/Mir in the fall?
Carwin and Velazquez
would be wasted fighting for a title this early. They both could be worth a TON in a title fight in 12 months. I actually was just working on an article about this so I guess get ready for “Cheick Kongo Deserves a Title Shot” from me in about 30 minutes.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
Carwin/Congo Definitely hits the ground in under 2 minutes
Congo will be out cold when he touches the canvas.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
Why Look Short Term?
You’re looking at it as he’s just beaten three cans in a row, and that’s it. That completely is discounting the fact that he’s 7-2 in the UFC, he has beaten some decent guys, and both of his losses were close fights. That’s not bad at all, and not to mention in some of those fights he was dominating.
Just as soon as he beats Carwin
Which will never, ever happen
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 20, 2009 8:27 PM EDT reply actions
This is the problem with you...
you always talk about the heavyweight division like there should be ONE SINGLE CONTENDER (and it’s always Carwin). I want to see a line of guys that are all in good shape to get shots. I don’t want to see everything as a tournament with one challenger emerging from the end. I don’t want to see Carwin/Kongo because one guy is set back to a large degree. That’s the problem with the “tournament approach” to determining challengers…a bunch of guys are left with losses in the wake of the challenger.
So if we say Kongo/Carwin should fight and the winner gets a title shot we’re also saying “and the loser gets taken out of contention”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
![Coach Trevor Wittman says Paul Buentello tapped out mainly due to pain from his dislocated finger, and considered retirement following his loss to Cheick Kongo:
"He couldn't take it anymore," Wittman today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "Kongo did a great job of applying pressure and (threw) nice elbows to the hip sockets and that high leg and the knees to the body ... that all had to do with it also. But his hand was in severe pain."
"The rules are (that) the fighter is allowed to put it back into place himself," Wittman said. "If he can't put it in and he can't continue, the fight is over. The doctor just kind of stepped in; I don't think the doctor understood the rules. We went over it with the commission in the back room. It was totally not the correct thing to do."
"[Buentello] said he was thinking about quitting," Wittman said. "I told him to not make any rash decisions. He was like, 'Oh, the UFC's going to cut me.' Honestly, from my perspective – and I try to keep it as real as I can because I love Paul, and I think he's a great fighter – I think he's got to have more dimensions at this high level of the game."
HT: MMA Junkie, Photo HT: MMA Weekly
UFC on Versus: Jones vs. Vera coverage](http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/106273/kongobuentelloufcv1_dsc_2538_small.jpg)
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
