How the Mainstream Views UFC 97 and Anderson Silva
Some of this might be uncomfortable to listen to and there's a lot I don't agree with (the Wiman vs. Stout fight was excellent, for starters), but it's a viewpoint that should be heard. I am not posting this to rehash the debate about whether or not Anderson Silva had a right to fight the way he did on Saturday. My view on that is well known and I will always love MMA no matter how large or small the sport becomes. Rather, I'd like to take a closer look at what some members of the mainstream and the mainstream media feel about UFC 97 and Anderson Silva, particularly.
Chad Dukes and the rest of the crew of the "Big O and Dukes Show" on 106.7 WJFK in Washington, DC express their frustration with UFC 97 and more especially, Anderson Silva. No one group or person speaks for "the mainstream" but somehow I get the sense their anger isn't isolated to their studio.
Perhaps after UFC 100 more good will can be restored. Maybe all of this criticism is cyclical, but it's troubling to me when a staunch ally of MMA who has not only helped me in immeasurable ways (I doubt I'd have a radio show without him), but has fought tooth and nail with the brass at CBS radio to get them to pay more attention to MMA decides he's had enough. Again, I do not agree with several points he makes, but his perspective is not so easily dismissible. Like it or not, it is half-hearted performances like Silva's that can generate nasty blowblack from a intrigued if only moderately interested mainstream audience. I will still watch no matter what. He will not and there are a lot more people like him and me.
Again, I will make this as clear as humanly possible, so if you cannot grasp this idea when it's stated this plainly there's little I or anyone else can do for you: I am not now nor ever suggesting fighters must throw caution to the wind for the sake of the audience. If fighters pursue the fight for the duration of their bouts and cannot finish one another and the mainstream still decides to walk away, so be it. Let them walk. But if they walk because our alleged king cannot bring himself to put in anything more than an apathetic performance, we have a very serious problem. We not only lose fans; we lose more of the media outlets that bring us closer to the fans. Those of you seem to think that those media entities that cover MMA now will always cover MMA are living in a fantasy world. MMA is not football. We still have positive equity to build if you really take mainstream ascendancy seriously. And those in the MMA community who believe in that goal have a responsibility to put in our best efforts to lift our beloved sport beyond the fringes of the sporting community.
It is not our place to specifically dictate to Silva which strike to throw or takedown to attempt, but it also cannot be denied when fighters - particularly ones of considerable ability and prestige - elect to leave something in the ring, our sport loses portions of the mainstream audience and media who could've been converted and nurtured along.
Consider this: I have the only show in the entire Washington, DC listening market (a top 10 market nationally, mind you) devoted to covering MMA. If the brass at CBS decide the push behind MMA simply isn't what worth the trouble - a push in large part provided by Chad Dukes - MMA will cease to be covered in this market. That's not an exaggeration, that's a real possibility. The local rock station DC 101 and sports stations such as ESPN 980 won't even touch it. And the news radio stations won't even return emails about booking MMA fighters or talking about UFC events. If WJFK ceases to cover MMA, there will be no one in radio or television going near it. Scared yet? I am.
Look, is there a push for gore and blood among the casual viewing audience? Yes, no question. Are many fans simply interested in a little late night carnage and demolition? Of course. So I am not suggesting we give in to their craven impulses. But what we should do is promote how excellent our sport is when it's firing on all cylinders because the reality is this: are there sports fan who are intrigued by MMA but need more coaxing? More than you can imagine. When fighters in this sport choose to not put in maximum effort and get a pass from MMA hardcore apologists who either don't care about the mainstream or think we've already reached it, the UFC and MMA can kiss goodbye any hope of moving this sport closer to the center.
I expect this to fall on a lot of deaf ears. You may not have any of this on your mind. But I bet Dana White does. That's enough for me.
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good point..this is what i was afraid of also. UFC 97 was bad in so many ways for the sports increased viewership. the most well known name in MMA to the casual fan (iceman)..done..in ugly fashion. the sports “p4p best” …yawner of a performance. bad bad bad. i feel it was bad enough..that i wouldn’t be surprised if dana didn’t offer up a free blockbuster card on spike asap just to make it up to fans and potential lost casual fans.
I simply disagree that Silva’s performance was ‘apathetic’.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 20, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
forgive me for saying...
I am shocked…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I am 99% sure Silva is trying to fuck and/or sabotage the UFC. whether there’s another party in on it with him remains to be seen.
Over Roy Jones, quality of opposition, payment structure? All, none, any?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 20, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not quality of opposition… I guarantee he would come out with the same strategy against anyone at this point. However if there was someone who can force him to fight he may have to change.
GSP will get killed… I am sorry but in a 5 round fight at middle weight GSP has no chance. The only chance GSP has is if the fight is at 175lbs and a 3 round fight.
Nobody realizes how hard Anderson hits and thats why I believe this new boring style will work on anyone even if they are aggressive. He will try to just hurt them enough to keep them from engaging.
Even Kalib can choose not to engage and take a fight to decision.
Anderson will be sanboxed until he finds religion.
Smart, cautious, evasive, inventive – not aggressive, but certainly not apathetic
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 21, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how much damage was done to the fledgling Canadian market. For the UFC to beat the attendance record at 83 this time out was surprising to me. I have a feeling that a lot of people who went on a whim will not be going again after such a terrible showing.
I haven’t a clue how they’re going to address Silva’s issues, I sure would like to be part of any conference calls the Zuffa brass has with Silva’s management.
I don’t think the fallout will be that bad.
They could just put GSP in the main event if they feel the card really needs help.
you are wrong i took my brother and my dad to a sports bar to watch this event. Both said afterwards " wow thats how the champion acts" and neither will be watching another event. Thats 2 potential new fans that where lost because of anderson silva and the poor main event on that card.
The Montreal market will be fine. They had a full, energetic house on a night that the Habs were not only playing a playoff game, but getting whipped. Not too much in Montreal does well under those circumstances.
I still get a kick out of how Montreal is the “Canadian market.” It’s like saying Las Vegas is the “American market”. That being said, they’ll sell out their next time in Montreal, and if they have any concerns, they’ll just put GSP in the main event.
still get a kick out of how Montreal is the "Canadian market."
Uh, at this point is is.
1) Ontario is not sanctioned
2) BC is not sanctioned
3) everything in between that is sanctioned does not have the population (in the UFCs eyes) to support the show.
The Montreal market is fine. They sold out like 22,000 seats in a week. They’ll have GSP back next time.
by Michael Rome on Apr 20, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
At the same time, he’s turned in boring performances in his last 2 fights in the UFC’s 2 best markets.
by Michael Rome on Apr 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget Mike...
you’re not allowed to acknowledge that Chicago is a great market because they booed Anderson being a clown
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Thales Leites, double-agent – taking MMA down from the inside. He played us all.
The only thing that can save MMA is Houston Alexander v. Bobby Lashley!!!
I would rather drink Lyoto Machida’s piss than watch that.
by inadvertentgroinstrike on Apr 20, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously.....
I’d definitely rather watch that……
i think it’d be pretty entertaining
That's DC Radio
They have a tendency in that market to abandon ideas quickly. They are also a market that experiments with new ideas, often times dropping them and restarting them over and over again.
DC radio program board meeting:
“Things are getting a litle stale with the ratings, how about we switch formats? Any ideas?”
“Lets try a classic rock format!!”
“Lets go with a all latino format!!”
“Lets try that Jack format everyone has been talking about!”
Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.
by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 20, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i think everyone just needs to calm down. is this not the same place where i can find post after post deriding fights Like Davis/Lytle that are just going for Fight of the Night and now when we have an intelligent and highly skilled fighter we demand he jump Leites guard?
Way to combine two different things into one comment missing the point.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that it missed the point
We are kind of swinging from the left side all the way to the right now.
I contend that Anderson Silva can do whatever he wants
But so can Dana White and Zuffa. Was I personally entertained/intrigued/amused by Anderson’s behavior? Yes, I was. Were the majority of the viewing audience similarly satiated by this somewhat bizarre display? Absolutely not. For me, the only reasonable course of action from a marketing perspective, which says nothing of Anderson’s freedom to fight how he did against Leites, is to slot Anderson Silva’s next title fight in a semi-main just below a marquee non-title fight. We see what are widely considered boring fights regularly, but I think most of the frustration is a result of the top billing of Silva/Leites. I emphatically disagree with anyone that says Anderson Silva owed us something (he won), and I particularly disassociate myself with those of you that attempt to say so objectively. It’s clear that Dana was underwhelmed by the pace of the fight. That’s the only reasonable recourse in my mind. Let him know he’s not exciting enough for top billing and that he’ll be back there once he is. As for me, I don’t have a problem with what happened in the fight, because I was more in awe of how he emasculated Leites and, to be honest, destroyed Leites’ value forever in out-classing and humiliating him for 25 minutes, and not being any worse for wear than he was when he stepped into the octagon. I think one person has a right to be mad about what happened and that’s Leites— at himself for his inability to pose any sort of a significant threat or to attempt to do so, at Joe Silva for putting him in a fight he couldn’t win and at Anderson for being content to technically embarrass him instead of taking risks to finish the fight (that I’m confident he could have). But it was Anderson’s distinct prerogative to approach the fight in the manner that he did and the assertion that he has to finish to win is objectively incorrect.
I poop rainbows.
You're not paying attention to the argument...
it isn’t that he as to finish….but he should be TRYING
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Bullshit
That is the argument— that if he was trying, he would have just finished the fight.
I poop rainbows.
I'm somewhat in agreement with Blackout here
Am I a little disappointed in Anderson’s performance? Yes I guess I was. But do I get on Man Utd’s back when they play for a draw instead of a win? No not really. (You Americans don’t have this concept….because you instilled OT).
Sometimes it’s tactically necessary in sport to not go all out. Sometimes players and people want to protest certain things. What Anderson Silva did was within his prerogative. He can fight the fight however he wants to fight it.
However Dana White can also do exactly what he wants for the betterment of his business. If that means moving AS down to the co-main event then that’s his prerogative. I personally wouldn’t recommend that, seeing as it would devalue the championship.
One thing Dana should probably consider is official ‘finish bonuses’. Split the win bonus in half. At present many fighters get 100% of their original fight purse to win. Maybe the UFC should give them 50% to win and another 50% if they finish the fight. Economics works guys….
To go along with what you are trying to say...
I talked to a few fringe MMA fans that watched UFC 97. They all feel like MMA has hit its peak and isn’t worth paying the money to watch anymore. They believe that because of the way the UFC fighting system operates, events will continue to disappoint and exciting matchups are dwindling.
I disagree, but I can see where they are coming from. Hopefully, the coming events will dissuade them.
by brandonh on Apr 20, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is so blown out of proportion.
Not every fight is going to be awesome and not every fighter is going to dazzle us with their amazing skill set. I was just as disappointed as anyone with the fight but let’s take a step back and see the big picture. It was a bad match up and Anderson Silva didn’t perform the way we wanted him too. This one fight isn’t going to destroy the sport. Boring main event fights are going to happen. I am really surprised at the way previously cool headed objective fans are freaking out about this one fight.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
your missing the point. this isnt just some main event. or a bad matchup. this was your touted P4P best, record breaker, all world striker who couldnt or wouldnt finish a completely outclassed fighter.
Okay. I understand your point but that doesn’t mean that MMA is in jeopardy in the main stream. I understand that 4 or 5 times a month something happens and bloggers need to say “this is bad for the sport” or “this sets MMA back a decade”. I think that I am just surprised at who is saying it this time. To say that you are going to stop promoting a sport because you haven’t been impressed with three events is bullshit IMO. Imagine if boxing fans freaked out and media outlets abandoned their coverage of it each time there was a boring boxing match. Remember when Bone Crusher Smith hugged Mike Tyson for 12 rounds?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
“Again, I will make this as clear as humanly possible, so if you cannot grasp this idea when it’s stated this plainly there’s little I or anyone else can do for you”
Save it for the radio, champ.
I hope there isn’t too big of a negative reaction, but many of the people who I watched with, some fans for several years, were upset and disappointed.
I can’t recall the article or quote, but someone (Maybe Belcher) made the argument that Silva’s style is not that much different from Machida’s counterstyle, the more aggressive the opponent, the quicker the fight could end. Leites didn’t do much in the way of pushing the action.
Some tactical boxers are content to win rounds and decisions, so a safer approach is not new. However, if Dana is serious about his following the opposite of the boxing model, he probably does not want to close out too many PPVs that way.
Hopefully the UFC doesn’t overreact to the negative feedback.
I love it!
everyone here that is defending it is ignoring the point. You’re all on Luke for saying it…but what he is saying is that the fight turned off people in the media. For a sport that has a LOT of growth to do there are people who are done promoting it because they feel the product sucks. That’s the issue. Luke or my or anyone else in the hardcore base’s opinion does not matter in this discussion.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions
People are conceding the fact that it turned off the mainstream, but the sky-is-falling bullshit about Anderson Silva controlling the fate of our sport are blown out of proportion. There will be many fights by the time he fights again. So let’s not act as though Anderson Silva alone is the needle on the mainstream MMA acceptance meter.
I poop rainbows.
I’m unclear how or why you think Luke’s blowing anything out of proportion here.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
Why you think Luke is blowing anything out of proportion here?
And try not to be so condescending.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
What you dont understand is WE ARE HARDCORE FANS! we watch every event no matter what. Casual fans and mainstream media tune in to the see the ufc’s so called P4P best break all kinds of records and put on a show.
When they tune in they got what happened on saturday they go back and report how bad the event is. IT IS A BIG DEAL to mainstream media.
People have SAID it...
is the issue. The sport right now is mostly judged on a show to show basis. There isn’t a long leash by a lot of people on the fence where a bad show is met with “well…I’ll check out the next one to see if it is better” It isn’t that Anderson Silva controls the destiny of the sport by himself…that isn’t what anyone has said. If Randy Couture put on that same fight I’d be saying it about Randy Couture..etc
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a not so great show, all told, but there will be plenty to bring people back around. Lots of free MMA will be happening over the Summer and Strikeforce’s last show was a blast. I just don’t think that show is going to kill a significant desire in MMA fans, casual and hardcore alike. I think this is milder than advertised. Fresh wound and all…
I poop rainbows.
Maybe you're right...
I’m willing to concede that we don’t fully know yet how this fight affects the future. What I’ve heard from a diverse group of people (probably 40 or so casual fans…not just ones I watched with) was that a chunk of them are giving up on a sport they were unsure about. So there is some amount of damage at this point in the sport’s history from bad shows…and from bad showings by the best the sport has to offer. I’ve heard awful things from people who watched in bars including one where the fight was actually turned off during the main event because people were getting “too rowdy” because they were pissed off. If bars (which pay higher than just the regular PPV $50 fee) start dropping…that hurts.
I’ve also heard from some who said that every sport has a bad game/fight/event here and there so they’ll keep watching. The final impact isn’t totally known. but there is some reason for concern in a lot of people’s eyes…and being that we’re a blog…we’re expressing it.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeh I agree with this
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with Luke’s point that this fight was bad for the image of the sport in the mainstream media.
That’s pretty difficult to disagree with. Were there any other points?
I don’t think one bad card is going to do that much damage. Fans will forgive a sweep in a major pro sports championship or a lopsided Super Bowl.
Where this might turn into trouble is if they put on 3 or 4 stinker main events in a row, in this economy.
But as for one bad main event, I mean, UFC recovered from the Ortiz-Shamrock 2/Sylvia-Arolvski 2 card and that was about a thousand times worse than this.
Silva is an employee. End of story.
The way I see the Silva fight is the same way I look at performance in the workplace. When you work for someone, they are paying you under the belief that you will do your best. A reasonable boss would not expect you to make the big sales all the time, but they will expect you to try your best, because they are paying you. They don’t pay you to slack off or “do what ever you want” or goof off. You do your best, because the expectation is that you are required to. Get what I mean? Silva may not owe the fans anything, despite them paying for tickets and PPV, but he owes Zuffa a good fight, to try his best. That’s where I think it was lacking. For some strange reason or another, he wasn’t giving it his all, according to Dana, who was plenty disappointed by the performance.
Now tie in the fact that he’s the P4P king, and the fact that the casual fan doesn’t have the loyalty to stick it through thick and thin, you have a problem when trying to grow MMA into the mainstream when a performance like that is put in. I don’t know about anyone else, but I am not content to have MMA a fringe sport.
by pud333 on Apr 20, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
PS: Dana has been telling anyone and everyone that Anderson Silva is the P4P king of the sport, and that MMA will be the biggest sport in the world eventually. Any casual fan tuning in to see that fight on Saturday would consider our sport a bit of a joke. Luke is right when he thinks there is a legitimate worry when it comes to this.
Silva is not an employee. End of story.
He is a professional athlete who signed a promotional contract. His job was to fight, and if anyone has the authority to determine whether he was in fact “fighting to win,” that would be the Athletic Commission.
That said, UFC is an organization that is in the business of promoting fights. It is up to THEM to figure out how to market and promote their contracted talent, and adjust their compensation accordingly, based on how difficult a particular fighter is to market. If just being “unbeatable” isn’t enough (ask Lyoto Machida), then they can use compelling stories involving a fighter’s opponents. If fans have turned on him, but he remains supremely talented, then market him as a villain (HBO managed to do it quite well with Floyd Mayweather in its 24-7 series).
I get that the skeptical Mainstream Media may have been turned off, but to me, the media naysayers and boxing apologists who decried the sport’s brutality can’t help but be a bit silenced. He fought a less than exciting fight, and casual fans who were watching for the first time may have been turned off a bit. But what of the fans who were captivated by Anderson Silva performances in the past? What about the ones that just love the UFC, and see this for the aberration that it is. The job of journalists is to CONTEXTUALIZE. Luke, it is totally within your rights to assert that Silva’s performance was disgraceful, apathetic, and that it wouldn’t do him any favors for endearing him to fans. But all of that criticism should not lose sight of the fact that, where the sport is concerned, he remains a blip on its collective radar. The sport can and will go on without him. That’s what the Chuck Liddell loss taught us. The Iceman helped to build the UFC, and he was ushered towards the door with a knockout. Randy Couture, after fighting the Zuffa Machine for over a year, was thumped by Brock Lesnar. Tito Ortiz is irrelevent to the modern UFC. Frank Shamrock was thoroughly whipped by Nick Diaz. Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie are steroid-tainted pariahs. NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE SPORT.
Again, if Zuffa wants to “punish” Anderson Silva, they can put him on a card where he won’t be expected to headline, and stop promoting him as the standard-bearer for their organization. They’ve had weak-drawing champions before, and will again. Or they could forget about “punishing” him, and promote around it, putting him in fights where he’ll have no choice but to bring it, or he’ll lose. The press will be back.
I find it highly ironic that this month has seen a hateful rant by the UFC’s ACTUAL ambassador, as well as an uninspired performance by the UFC’s Alpha Dog, and the thing that we doomsday soothsayers are afraid of is the fallout from a BAD FIGHT.
by madiq on Apr 20, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Silva signed an agreement to fight a specified number of fights for a certain sum of money. Employee.
From the good folks at the Internal Revenue Service:
In the case of a prize fighter, for instance, the contestant is under a contract to engage in an exhibition of boxing. The compensation he will receive is stipulated, although it may vary as to the outcome of the fight. The promoter may not dictate how the contest is to be fought. This leaves the outcome to the individual skill and ability of the fighter and the relationship is one of the independent contractor.
Okay, I’ll concede the independent contractor bit, but my argument is still sound. There are expectations when a contract is made up. According to Dana, those expectations were not met.
Actually, I’d say that the expectations were minimally met. Usually, Dana uses the carrots and sticks of bonuses, favorable card placement and releases to get fighters to behave the way he wants them to. And I wouldn’t be surprised if he used all of those tools.
But to me, the whole opaque compensation system breeds a lack of real remedies. An incentive-based model would be more transparent, and open to media scrutiny, but divorced from the type of autocratic decisionmaking we know and love. Thales Leites might be released from his contract. But there’s no contract clause that mandates it; only that the company has the discretion to release you if you lose a fight. Conversely, as a champion, for long as you win, your contract is extended with the same terms. So Anderson Silva could win fights like these into perpetuity, with no legal recourse available to the UFC. All they can do is not give him bonuses.
Basically, what I’m saying is that as a professional fighter, the expectation is that you fight competitively. But you really aren’t obligated to entertain — you get paid extra for that.
I’m actually a little worried about this fiasco. If this is at all representative of some people’s opinions, this could signal a disappointing year for the UFC.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
the casuals I've talked to...
have had opinions ranging from “I was on the fence before, I’m done with MMA now” to “I’ll still watch sometimes, but not every show” to “I’ll never pay for another show that Silva is on” to “eh…it was just a bad fight”
The issue is that a growing sport can’t afford people to bail all together
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPECIALLY people who promote the sport
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of the group I watched it with were casuals
…and they all said “see you May 23rd”. It’s particular to your experience, not worldly.
Seriously, to my mind, it’s an effect to Anderson’s marketability, not the sport as a whole.
I poop rainbows.
When it comes to the world of Chad Dukes
Everything falls into either “greatest thing since sex and if you don’t agree you’re an idiot” and “so stupid and worthless that if you don’t agree you’re an idiot”.
I’m sort of surprised that “O and Dukes show” suggest that the last 3 events sucked.
Unless they were suggesting that the main events in the 3 of them sucked, the 3 previous events had good fights just the main events were lopsided or dull.
My two cents....
Casual fans and media outlets who rarely cover MMA are more than likely turned off by UFC 97. Silva is hyped by many as the pound for pound king of MMA. The cauals tuning in are expecting to get what they are sold on. They arent expecting to see a boring fight. It would be much like hyping De La Hoya as the best boxer ever, sucking in some new people to the sport, then watching him clinch for 12 rounds and winning a decision. People tune in expecting to see a dominate performance.
This isnt like the NFL that is already billed as a credible sport. You arent going to lose any casaul fans because the 10-0 Patriots win a game 3 to zero. As much as I love MMA, it just doesnt have that type of media support yet. Is it unfair, yes but main event fights need to live up to the hype to continue to put MMa on the map. Being billed as the main event, Silva/Leites at UFC 97 did do some damage to the sport, not to the hardcores of course but to the casual media and fan.
Read My Blog
"Life's tough, tougher if you're stupid."
Why blame Silva? We didn’t blame Nate Quary when Kalib Starnes refused to engage. I blame Thales Leites for putting people off. He was like a turtle in his shell. He did nothing. We are blaming Silva for being good enough to finish, but failing to do so. If this were a battle of euqually matched fighters, would you blame Silva for the fight or the buttscooter? Dropping to your ass every time a strike is thrown is NOT a takedown. It is embarassing. Leites turned the fans away. Leites hide for five rounds and got people to blame Silva. Still, I wonder how Leites won rounds on score cards.
Still, I wonder how Leites won rounds on score cards.
\
I know you and others will be pissed at my answer…But it’s because ESPECIALLY early in the fight Anderson wasn’t doing anything to convince anyone he won the round either.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave him one and two.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 20, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave him one...
I gave Silva two because…I don’t know…I had to give it to someone.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you count the gaurd pull drops as takedowns? I mean you can’t drop to your ass and stall and flee punching and not have it count against you. Did Leites even touch Silva offencivly?
In the first round...
Leites was the one pushing the action. He won that one convincingly in my book. Round 2 was “close” the rest were clear
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Did they go to the ground in round 1? it was all silva on the ground. And striking, Leites threw a few early, but Silva dodged everything. Leites may have been more active early, but ate more punches then Silva did.
the only thing leites landed in round 1 was a leg kick and silva controlled the center of the octagon and was fairly aggressive(with his footwork, not strikes) the whole round. there is no way you can objectively score round one for leites at all
I scored it for Leites live on the liveblog...
at that point I had no “bias” due to the bad fight.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 20, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m not accusing you of anything, i’m just saying it’s pretty weird to give a round that was pretty much only standup to the guy who only landed one strike. it’s not like leites had octagon control or effective aggressiveness or any of those other criteria going for him either.
I don't think either of them really "won" the round...
It probably should have been 10-10 but I don’t score even rounds. I was just explaining that I had no bias so that people understand that this isn’t someone who was upset with the fight going back, rewatching the fight and trying to find ways to punish anderson..etc
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I didn’t say no one does. I just personally don’t.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree – if it’s 51%-49%, I’m scoring it 10-9
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 21, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
First time I've seen a round scored for "aggressive footwork."
I might be wrong, but I’m not rewatching that fight. I want the 25 minutes of my life back from the first time I watched it.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 20, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Its really disapointing, more than anything else, that the vast majority of the comments here show that people have a hard time detaching themselves from their own opinions/feelings/viewpoints in an attempt to see others’ perspective on this issue and the possible consequences that are an extension to that (which is basically the crux of Lukes argument).
But my response is that the “MMA Media,” composed of people who are FANS of the sport, aren’t mere passive observers to the changing tide of public opinion. Casual fans might be skeptical, and PPV buyrates could suffer in the short term. But do we REALLY think that people will stop caring about Rampage Jackson, Brock Lesnar, Georges St. Pierre, and all of the other stars that UFC has helped create? Do we think that Dana White won’t be able to sell the next “Biggest Fight Card in UFC History” to the million or so people who watch TUF every week? Like I said, it’s about Context. If Fedor put on a fight like this on the last Affliction card, the company dies. But the UFC is strong enough to weather a backlash against one fight. Even if a few people are turned off. But if it becomes a trend, then that’s something different. THAT’s the contextual framework and analysis I’d be expecting from the MMA Media…not some kneejerk B.S., the likes of which I can get from the Mike Freemans of the world.
Again, you seem to have missed Lukes point. Of course, the hardcore MMA fans will continue to watch (and pay for the privilege). Of course the MMA Media will continue to cover the sport (that is after all the reason for their continued existence). Luke was saying (and I agree), that incidents like this hamper the development of the sport in the areas that matter the most at the moment, that of attracting the casual audience and the major media outlets (I see those two being both hand in hand and an impetus for each other to grow).
I certainly feel it is one of the remits of the MMA Media to discuss the impacts of industry events on the media as a whole.
Fair enough, but I think that what’s going on here is more than just saying, “Anderson Silva needs to do better, because he missed out on a big opportunity to grow the sport.” This was more like “Anderson Silva has damaged the sport, and I’m scared of the long-term ramifications.” And I think that the second reaction is kneejerk and overblown. Like I said earlier, the UFC has set up its model so that no fighter is bigger than the sport (as it sees itself). And I trust that whatever the harm to the Anderson Silva brand, the UFC brand will find a way to mitigate the harm to it.
Forgive my bluntness (really) but...
Is this article really suggesting anything other than “be mad at Anderson Silva?”
I’d love it if he would just start finishing fights.
But unless you’re talking about some kind of a locker-room agreement or an amendment to scoring standards, it’s only people other than Anderson who can really be counted on to take action.
Maybe Dana stops calling him the gold standard of what people should be watching, and starts verbally promoting the more cooperative GSP as the sport’s P4P king.
Maybe the UFC starts offering Anderson nothing but 205 lb fights and puts 185 on ice for as long as it can.
I read this, and it’s like: YES, I do think it’s possible AND commendable to push to finish at all times without it being a human demolition derby. There’s a lot of guys that fight like this— (pre-GSP) BJ Penn, Kenny Florian, Demian Maia, etc who are brilliant, technical and artistic specimens of the sport. YES, also clearly we can’t underestimate the effects of this on your livelihood specifically or that of MMA’s staying power as a sport at large. It sucks. It really does. Anderson messed with a lot of stuff by turning in this performance.
But it still blurs the lines in any way to say that marketing and entertainment spectacle alone should play into how someone solves for the rules of a sport. I get that from a purely realist perspective it will seem like apologist rhetoric to defend Anderson, but with any sport you either make concrete changes to the model or live with peoples’ will to abuse less-than-exciting interpretations of the spirit of the game. This is endemic to real sports everywhere.
Getting mad at Anderson, satisfying and justified as it may be, simply isn’t enough. A game is defined by its rules, and the “Anderson problem” as it’s emerged either has to be managed around with matchmaking, stapled shut with wads of money, or addressed head-on through the rules themselves.
Anderson SHOULD feel a stake of responsibility for the well-being of the sport at large, and a responsibility as a champ to show people something in the octagon. But that aside, how to fix this should be the question, not how bad should Anderson personally feel for essentially pointing out a weak spot in the entire arrangement that is the UFC, even if it makes him some kind of total jackass (which it does, I suppose, when you put it like this).
Although the Spider is one of the top two or three (or one if you work for Zuffa) fighters in the world, he is not one of their 5 biggest draws/moneymakers. I would assume Chuck, Brock, GSP, Randy, maybe Quinton and even Tito if he came back would all be considered bigger “draws.” So im not sure how much this wil affect the UFC and its image. Hell, they’ll prolly lose more casual fans and appeal from Chuck losing again in TKO fashion even though he wasnt even top 5 in his division. The casual fan like many of my friends wont be heard dropping “OMG did you hear that p4p top 3 fighter Anderson Silva won, but it was boring as shit… he should step it up!” They may have watched the fight and may have been bored to tears (expecting a ballet of violence that i had promised them) but they wont back away from the sport completely.
His performance didnt impress most of us… so we (MMA diehards) are the ones to suffer, but there is a silver lining. Dana wont let it happen again. Wandy, Cane, GSP, or some of the big boys at LHW wont let the Spider fight a point TKD fight. They may wake up with smelling salts in their face, but they wont subject us to a mess like we just saw saturday.
The future is bright for the Spider. With only a handfull of fights left for Zuffa, i dont expect Dana and Joe Silva to waste one of these on an Okami snoozefest and Maia may have just lost his (well deserved) title shot. They’ll put someone in there to get in his face or who’ll put him on his back… will he still win? I would assume so, but it will be a helluva lot more pleasing to watch than Leites. This fight wont hurt the sport or Zuffa/UFC in the longterm, it will just provide some internet backlash. It may actually help in the big scheme of things.
I’m inclined to agree. They’ll eschew matchups with guys they don’t think will challenge him, and they’ll focus on guys who will push the pace, and either stop him or be stopped themselves. Plus, they’ll be more likely to set up the Superfight with GSP. All said, we’ll get better matches because of it.
Plus, this is Silva’s FIRST decision. The Cote fight was flukey, but what about all of that, “Anderson Silva was fired up and disappointed that he didn’t get the opportunity to beat him decisively” stuff? Do we really think that all of a sudden, Anderson is going to turn into Lyoto Machida crossed with Kalib Starnes?
The sad thing is the event was pretty darn good but the main event was atrocious.
For all the morons who think SIlva played it smart and won… how is throwing a “soccer” style back kick playing it smart? You think that’s less risky than actually throwing punches????
This event was like after sex noticing you have shit all over your dick… You kinda forget about the sex and feel all shitty for some time.
This event was like after sex noticing you have shit all over your dick
Fantastic — my favorite analogy ever.
I will definitely have to “borrow” that sometime.
A possible explanation for A. Silva's peculiar behavior in Cote & Leites
He wants out of the UFC. In both fights he looked bored out of his mind — add to that his blatantly spreading the Vaseline from his face onto his body, after GSP’s “Greasegate”, and you have what appears to be a pattern of deliberate actions.
Thoughts?
I don't get it...
First off, there are very few fights where one fighter completely confuses and neutralizes his opponent. It shows how on-top of his gain the champion Anderson Silva was against "lay-down" Leites. After getting the worst of the Jui-Jitsu exchange on the ground, his confidence was shot Lay Down never knew what was going to hit him…a jab, a hook, a high kick, a kick to the quad or knee and it showed in his tentativeness. Something about Lay Down’s tactics reminded me of a dog who knows he’d get whipped by another dog so he gives up his belly…
Secondly, Toronto, Canada you should be embarrassed at the level of disrespected showed not only in the boos but also in the "GSP" chants. To quote Rudy (from Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids) "NO CLASS." I understand Canada (finally) has an world class athlete to cheer, but you guys took it to far…hey.
Thirdly, it’s pretty week how Dana White jumped on the boo-bird bandwagon instead of sticking up for the best fighter in the UFC. Be careful Dana…you may say the wrong thing about the wrong fighter and my find yourself on the receiving end of a rear naked choke…
Finally, be careful UFC fans. With his name and the wealth Anderson has generated who’s to stop him from jumping ship and starting his own league in Brazil. What if he retired cause of the bs criticisms from you novices…
Good job Anderson!! There are some fight fans out here that see and appreciate your strategy and skill and would never disrespect you the folks in Toronto did. Two fights don’t make a fighter, you’ve had an excellent career even though people refuse to look at the big picture.
by runrust on Apr 20, 2009 7:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good job Anderson!!
Please. It was not a “good job” by any means. Leites was terrible, but Silva did not fight a smart fight; he fought a non-fight. I think he was bored, because fighting Leites was so completely unchallenging for him.
One can like Anderson Silva and still be critical of his performance. Many casual MMA fans who paid to see Saturday’s UFC will not bother the next time Silva fights; in fact, they may not care to pay to see any UFC, no matter who is fighting, for a very long time.
As for Silva’s possibly leaving the UFC to start a rival organization in Brazil, being a great fighter doesn’t mean one will be a great businessman, or even a great fundraiser: how much capital do you think he — or anyone, for that matter — would need to raise to start up an organization able to compete with the UFC?
At the most, Silva might jump ship for another established MMA organization. But I don’t think he’d do that — if anything, he’d quit MMA for boxing.
Listen you stupid fucks who think Anderson was doing his best and that he has no fault in all this…
Go watch Billy Bob Thornton’s latest interview and you’ll get enough culture to realize what is happening here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJWS6qyy7bw
Anderson trying to punch Leties toes and knees was the same as Billy Bob talking about some stupid ass magazine that made no sense.
Once all of this comes out (if ever) you’ll realize this is about a big a story as Randy “Resigning”.
*ahem* Speaking of "mainstream media"...
…as someone who works for a general news outlet, I think the concerns are a little overblown. Few people outside the MMA trade press are going to care about UFC 97 because it wasn’t on free TV, so most people didn’t see it.
Two other points:
- Even if it were on free TV, two lackluster fights in a row from a top fighter aren’t going to hurt MMA any more than several Super Bowl blowouts in the ’80s and ’90s hurt pro football.
- Silva-Leites wasn’t the anticipated fight of the card, just as Tim Sylvia-Andre Arlovski wasn’t for UFC 61. It would have been far worse if there had been a lackluster fight involving Chuck Liddell, whose fame (unlike Silva’s) reaches beyond the MMA core.
Brother Non, you are right…
However we have to consider the context in which this is occurring. UFC 61 occurred during really good economic times.
When everyones scared shitless about this depression the last thing you want to see as a fan is some guy making around a million dollars come out as if he’s part of the teamsters union and just clock in and out… This after you plunked down 45 bucks in the hopes of escaping the thought of the what may happen next month.
The consequences of these types of “events” in this environment is magnified.
In a depression era people are looking for “cinderalla stories” to get them through these tough times. Nobody has the patience to sit through and pay for some guys “temper tantrum”.
If UFC 97’s main event was the tree falling in the forest, only few people heard it, so it didn’t make much of a sound.
I don’t dispute that a lame title fight could turn off paying customers, but much as it pains me to say (and believe me, it pains me greatly), MMA’s paying customers aren’t entirely mainstream yet — this is an industry where major events often draw less than half a million households because of the PPV cost.
When there are millions of homes tuned in to every UFC event, then it’s a mainstream sport. Until then, it’s not, and the only way the fights themselves matter to the quote-unquote mainstream media is for Sportscenter-worthy highlights or deaths, just as the average USA TODAY reader, frankly, probably doesn’t care about NASCAR except when someone like Dale Earnhardt slams into the wall at Daytona.
If Thales Leites had died in the cage on Saturday, that would have been bad for the industry’s image in the media. But a bad fight just means a few hundred thousand people became annoyed.
Wait! Wait!
I know how I’m supposed to deal with you! I’ll just do what everyone does when they got upset about the USA Today ranking deal.
NEWSPAPERS ARE DYING! YOU’RE AN IDIOT!
But seriously…I get what you’re saying, and I also get what Luke is saying.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 21, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Anderson wasn’t a draw to begin with so the fact that people are acting like this is the worst thing ever is pretty silly UFC. He is only hurting his already weak name recognition with the mainstream fans who pay to see guys like GSP, Brock, Couture those guys are all fighting in the coming months and fans will pay to see them regardless of the economy because they deliver unlike Andy.
Have to understand though
For Chad this is a piling on of disappointments from the UFC that have led to his feeling slighted as a fan. He feels for fans who might have spent 150 bucks on the last three pay-per-views and, at least in his mind, haven’t gotten close to their money’s worth. But add to that the way that the radio show has been treated by the UFC, considering that Dana has been booked on the show and blown them off something like 4 times. Rampage has blown them off, I’m sure there are others. And then there have been other fighters the UFC has calling into the show for promotion and they barely bother to put sentences together. Dukes just feels like the UFC is making him look like a fool when he tries so hard to promote the sport and the brand and they give him very little in return. And you can hardly blame him. I think Dukes still wants to promote MMA, I’m sure he’s siked about UWC still, but he doesn’t feel like it does him any favors to promote UFC. And if the mainstream media, or just mainstream people in general, aren’t promoting the big brand, then other mainstream people are not going to pay it any attention.
I did get bristled when he started downplaying UFC 98, especially the shots at Lyoto. And I thought he was excited for Hughes/Serra. But then, that’s the point. How many people who aren’t fans have more than even a slight idea who those people are or what the rivalries mean? That’s where the promotion is needed.

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