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Jason MacDonald and Ed Herman - Safe For Now

Promoted from the FanPosts by Kid Nate.

Always a fan-favorite, whether fighting in his native Canada or elsewhere, UFC middleweight Jason "The Athlete" MacDonald (21-12, 5-5 UFC) suffered his third loss in four fights to Nate Quarry at Saturday's UFC 97, succumbing to brutal elbows from Quarry for a first-round TKO.

Nonetheless, despite a .500 UFC record, and his inability to string together consecutive wins (late 2006 was the last time he won two fights in a row), MacDonald is not likely to be on Joe Silva's contractual chopping block anytime soon, according to Dana White himself in post-UFC 97 comments reported by MMA Junkie:

"Here's the thing that we love," White said in the post-UFC 97 press conference. "Anybody who goes out there and tries to fight – MacDonald is always awesome, man. He's always in an exciting fight."

"We want guys like Jason," White said. "They come to fight."

Web_macdonald_jason__medium

Of course the same could be said for welterweight Luigi Fioravanti, who, despite having nearly the same UFC record as MacDonald (4-5) and the same willingness to step up on short notice and put on a good scrap, was cut from the UFC following his TKO loss to Anthony Johnson in February.

If we compare the two, MacDonald's UFC losses have come at the hands of: Nate Quarry, Wilson Gouveia, Demian Maia, Rich Franklin, and Yushin Okami.  Essentially, MacDonald has only lost to some of the best 185-pounders in the world (obviously Gouveia and Quarry's status are debatable), and win-or-lose, he's only been to a decision once in 9 career UFC fights.

On the other hand, Fioravanti's UFC losses were against: Anthony Johnson, Diego Sanchez, Forrest Petz, Jon Fitch and Chris Leben.  Although Sanchez and Fitch are top contenders in their respective divisions, Fioravanti's other losses are against far less impressive competition than MacDonald, and with 4 decisions in 9 UFC fights, it can also be (subjectively) argued that Fioravanti wasn't as "exciting" a fighter as MacDonald.  This leads to one 5-5 fighter staying with the UFC after two consecutive losses (MacDonad), while another 4-5 fighter was released following a win and a loss (Fioravanti).

Dana White had similar comments about Ed Herman, who was believed to have saved his UFC career with a decision win over David Loiseau on Saturday:

"I love Ed Herman," White said. "That's another kid I really like. He's a tough, gritty kid. He goes out to fight and likes to win. I really, personally like that kid."

"Obviously, if he would have lost, he probably would have been on his way out," White said. "He probably would have been on the smaller shows and trying to work his way back."

As I did with MacDonald and Fioravanti, let's compare Ed Herman to another recently-released UFC fighter with an identical record: lightweight Rich Clementi.

Ed-herman-1_medium

Herman is 5-4 in the UFC with losses against: Alan Belcher, Demian Maia, Kendall Grove, and Jason MacDonald.  He has has gone to a decision 3 times in his 9 fights.

Clementi, also 5-4 at the time of his release, suffered losses to: Gleison Tibau, Gray Maynard, Roan Carneiro, and Din Thomas.  These are tough competitors in their own right, but are not pound-for-pound on the same level as Herman's opposition.  Furthermore, Clementi saw 4 decisions in his 9 career UFC fights, and lost two consecutive fights before his release.

Again, if we try to step into Joe Silva's shoes, it seems that Herman is the more exciting fighter and thus his spot is safe for now, while Clementi is off entertaining offers from smaller promotions.

The secret formula that Joe Silva uses for determining roster cuts will probably never be known exactly, but both MacDonald and Herman had to know they were close to the threshold between employed and unemployed.  MacDonald certainly deserves an easier opponent for his next fight, and Herman needs to continue to impress, but in a middleweight division that's often-criticized for its lack of depth, the UFC will likely do whatever they can (to a degree) to maintain their 185 pound talent pool.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

1 recs  |  Comment 21 comments |

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When it comes to losses, Demian Maia is becoming the Kevin Bacon of the middleweight division. He’s fought and beaten a lot of the guys who are kind of on the cusp of top-level status.

It would put them both in a must win situation, but I’d kind of like to see a Herman/MacDonald rematch.

by Cannon Jacques on Apr 20, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

typo

last sentence. “will likely so whatever they can” should be “will likely do whatever they can”

by Rob Borer on Apr 20, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m also really happy that JMac isn’t getting cut. He’s a favorite of mine, especially after his fight with Maia.

by Rob Borer on Apr 20, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You wanna know why Jason MacDonald won't be cut?

He’s Canadian.

When Dana announces that Toronto show, he’s going to stack the card with Canucks like nobody’s business.

Seven in Montreal, and some far weaker names than MacDonald were there (been nice knowing you, Crow).

If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.

by Ozzz on Apr 25, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish these fights were aired.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Apr 20, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think it helps that both are in the mw division, not the ww or lw divisions which are more stacked. personally, i would love to see a hermann/grove rematch. their tuf finale fight was a classic imo. i woudl’nt mind seeing him fight kang either.

by bdw on Apr 20, 2009 1:32 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I'm glad someone brought up the MW factor...

The first thing I though when reading the article was, “Yeah, but MacDonald is a MW…” Here’s the thing- you can’t necessarily break this down with stats, BUT…

Jason MacDonald (unlike Luigi Fioravanti) still seems capable of beating UFC talent (and not just the bottom-feeders or debutantes). Luigi was exciting to watch, but I never really felt like he was going anywhere. MacDonald is certainly more capable of a comeback.

Ed Herman is no Jason MacDonald, but he did pull off a big win. Sam Stout probably should’ve been gone before but now he notched a win to bring him closer to .500.

I was sad to see Clementi gone, but I definitely think that has everything to do with the LW division (hence my confusion over the Stout situation). There is tons of LW talent in the UFC and – more importantly – there is tons of talent outside of the UFC.

by flassasin24 on Apr 20, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very glad to see Macdonald sticking around, he deserves to be in the UFC. Always entertaining, and the guy is very good. I still think Jmac can beat half the guys at mw, just not the top dogs.

by moopwontplay on Apr 20, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you’re not going to challenge for a title, then you need to present a dynamic and entertaining challenge for up and comers – both these guys do that. Good call.

by subo on Apr 20, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can anyone confirm/deny that Chonan or Crow were released after 97? It seems likely that they were. I hope Wiman wasn’t.

by ilostmydog on Apr 20, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dana White issued the following comments
“I don’t know; I’ll have to ask (UFC matchmaker) Joe Silva about that,” White said. “David Loiseau’s got some wins, got himself back in the UFC. I don’t know, but I like him, and he’s a really nice guy.”

From MMA Junkie

by Scott Haber on Apr 20, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt they’ll cut the Crow, though he performed pretty poorly. Chonan I could see.

by Chris Nelson on Apr 20, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He needed to pull out one of those Anderson Silva-beating flying heel hooks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267i7rKeECA

If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.

by Ozzz on Apr 25, 2009 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if they cut wiman

ill quit the internet

i will really be pissed

i may even…. i may even write a letter

from the forest itself comes the handle for the axe

by troy145 on Apr 20, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although Gurgel was cut following a "Fight of the Night" performance

I think Wiman’s safe…especially since he lost a very controversial decision.

The kid’s a scrapper, and has been a favorite of mine for a while now.

by Scott Haber on Apr 20, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn’t jason macdonald 5-5?

wins: leben, herman, singer, doerkson, lambert
losses: franklin, okami, maia, gouveia, quarry

by rmac15 on Apr 20, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe you are correct.

by ilostmydog on Apr 20, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s a good gatekeeper. His list of losses is the cream of the crop of the middleweight division (Quarry maybe not…) The thing that’s cool about him is even if he is released, he started his UFC run as the asshole who was brought in to get destroyed by Ed Herman in his debut and never heard from again, but he managed to get big fight after big fight.

by MattTil on Apr 20, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The gingers are here to stay, baby!

www.mma-elite.com

by Brad Ackerson on Apr 20, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha, my first thought upon seeing this article. Mark Bocek won this weekend too.

by Chris Nelson on Apr 20, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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