The Many Colors of the Mixed Martial Arts Rainbow
by Luke Thomas on Apr 2, 2009 2:34 PM EDT
in MMA News
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PrintA reader writes:
I think this is the first time I’ve seen anyone bring up the topic of homophobia and misogyny, implicit or explicit, in the major MMA media (at least, that which I consume). I identify both as a feminist and a queer ally and have found it difficult to defend the sport at times when it has consistently chosen a language and a posture that keeps women at arm’s length and alienates the queer community.
I’ve wrestled for 4 years in a program that produced some top HS female wrestlers in the country and the homophobia was present there. And even very recently, in an otherwise open-minded gym, I hear the comments and can’t bring myself to say very much about it. My former roommate and good friend of mine, openly gay, has become a very huge fan of the sport through living with me, to the point where he’s considering training with me. He won’t come with me to see the Strikeforce show in San Jose, not because he fears for his safety, but because of a general sense of feeling unwelcome.
I was surprised to see such commentary even posted online, and I probably wasn’t the only one. I think that says a lot about how people (or at least I) perceive the world of combative sports . I have always meant to write something about these issues, but I always got the impression that the sound would fall on deaf ears.
I’m grateful for everything you’ve said and posted. I’m grateful for the unwavering stance you’ve taken in your comments. I’m unendingly grateful for the understanding you have of the issue (that these words are never meaningless, and just because one grows up with it doesn’t make it less homophobic or misogynistic), and your willingness to explain.
Being mainstream means being integrationist and communal, and the reality is that MMA is for gays and women, too. Whether or not you like Dana White (I do) and whether or not you think he should be forced to apologize (I don't) is irrelevant. The fact remains: It's not pragmatic for White to act this way given his vaunted position and the gay and female members of the MMA community deserve an equal seat at the table. Nothing more, nothing less.
UPDATE by Kid Nate: Maggie Hendricks from Yahoo's Cagewriter add this:
Since I've started with Cage Writer, I have been worried from time to time that I would not be welcome at fights or in gyms. After all, MMA is definitely a man's world. However, I've never felt unwelcome, never felt like I was given an unfair shake, never felt like I didn't belong. But after seeing the president of the corporation that I spend much of my days writing about call another female member of the MMA media a "dumb b----," I instantly become unwelcome in this world. Funny what a few little words can do.
For those who wonder why we're posting on this story, here's the deal: we want MMA to become a truly popular sport so it can attract the best athletes so we can see the best fights possible. Dana's blunder set us back. He's still done as much for the sport as any living human (if not 500) but this was a serious misstep for an executive of a sport that wants to be taken seriously in popular culture and corporate America.
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I agree...
With Luke’s words and the person who wrote the letter. If anything I wrote in the thread in question was taken as misogynistic or homophobic… I greatly apologize because that wasn’t my intention at all. I guess I am very cynical when it comes to this subject because all be it that I am not homophobic, I don’t really hold people accountable that are that way. I just chalk it up to their own ignorance and move on with my life.
I hope the world will change, I hope that my favorite sport will be accepted and all those that love it can be accepted for the fact they love the sport…. who they are or the lifestyle they lead will not matter… which in my mind is the way it should be.
"I don’t really hold people accountable that are that way. I just chalk it up to their own ignorance and move on with my life."
That was a very good statement & I think that we all probably have that problem to some degree or another. I know some days I am far more likely to say something to someone wronging another person or race & some days I completely ignore them.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
easier said then done
especially if you are the target of that kind of ignorant thinking.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
Gay folks have sort of taken back the word for their own use – gay filmmakers make “queer cinema,” gay bands can be “queercore,” etc.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
Taking Back the Word
Yes, well another word has been taken back by a group against which it was used, but that does not make it acceptable to say in polite society.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Yeah,
I have seen this on several different sites. They seem to be concentrating their articles on his direct attack on Loretta Hunt though.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
which is fine also.
and sad that it was so multi-layered that you have different avenues you can take while being offended.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Fox Sports really "Mainstream"?
C’mon. Really?
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Well...
yes. Fox Sports Network still reaches a huge amount of homes. It’s much more mainstream than say…bloodyelbow
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If they’re mainstream and we’re not, then I never ever want to be mainstream
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 2, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
National, so yeah pretty much.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Can we stop conflating the “faggot” comment with the “bitch” comment?
Calling a person a faggot, while the connotations of the word have shifted over the years, still carries within it a degree of negative or hateful sentiment towards gays, depending on who uses it.
Bitch, on the other hand, carries a negative sentiment towards female dogs. Bitch is not used to negatively slur all women, except in the phrase “all women are bitches.”
Dana should be condemned for using faggot in a fashion which might have indicated hatred towards gays, and he should also be condemned for losing his cool and insulting a female member of the MMA media. But getting angry over the use of the term “bitch” by itself is reactionary PC bullshit.
Seriously?
Calling a woman a bitch should not be condemned according to you? You should conduct an experiment at work today. Walk over to one of your female co-workers, preferably your boss, call her a bitch & see if she asks why you are calling her a female dog.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
How do I post a rolleyes face on here?
Did you even read what I said?
he should also be condemned for losing his cool and insulting a female member of the MMA media.
Of course he should be condemned for calling her a bitch, because it was an asshole and weak thing to do. But he should not be condemned as having insulted ALL women, which is something that has gained a little steam here and a few other places. Calling Loretta Hunt a bitch insults her; calling a random man a fag insults gay people as a whole.
by Michaelthebox on Apr 2, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I read what you wrote
& would again ask you to perform that experiment. The majority of women think of the word “bitch” as extremely insulting towards women as a whole.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
the fact that he
insulted her AND called her a “dumb fucking bitch” is the problem.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
I don’t deny that it is a problem. I’m playing devil’s advocate here, I hate kneejerk PC reactionary attitudes.
As asshole as it is, the term “bitch” should not be considered on the same level as the term “faggot.”
by Michaelthebox on Apr 2, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude,
there is nothing “kneejerk” or “PC” about someone being upset at being called a dumb fucking bitch! And in the context of the same monlogue it will be considered on the same level as the word “faggot”
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
You clearly don't get it.
I’m not saying that Loretta Hunt doesn’t have a right to be angry. Or her friends, or co-workers, or those who know her, or anybody who thinks that White was just being an asshole, which he was.
I’m saying that conflating “bitch” with “woman-hating” is going over the top.
by Michaelthebox on Apr 2, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You are entitled to your opinion about that.
I believe anyone who cannot come up with any other way to explain themselves to a woman other than calling her a bitch is an idiot for one, second they do have major issues with women, so yes they are probably woman haters to some degree.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I think the point EVERYONE else is trying to make is that using the word “bitch” with such intent behind it, in an industry that is clearly still an obstacle/hurdle for women to integrate into, by someone with so much influence, can be seen as insulting to women in general. Just as the N word can be seen as insulting all black people, simply by perpetuating the slang language and thus, the percieved hatred.
In my opinion, anyone who uses the word bitch maliciously like Dana did probably has gender issues he needs to sort out. Whether or not you agree with the “knee jerk” reactions is irrelevant. The word “bitch” is absolutely loaded, and Dana should know better than to use it in this context.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
He could’ve just insulted her using the terminology he’d have used against a male reported (‘idiot’, ‘moron’, ‘incompetent’, etc). It’s a shame he didn’t.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 2, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure Dana is an equal opportunity bitch caller: men, women, war machines etc…
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Apr 2, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would say that bitch isn’t as derogatory a term as it has been in the past. His tone was quite misogynistic, so it gave the attack more meaning. But you’ll often hear women refer to themselves as bitches, whereas you would never hear a gay person call themselves a faggot (ie; “what can I say, I’m a bitch sometimes”, Myspace profiles with the name “B@DDE$T B!TCH 3V3R”).
I think Michael is just asserting that it’s not as widely damaging a term, though it is still going overboard.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
I think that adding
the term bitch to “you dumb fucking” pretty much makes it more than just an attack. If you simply read this from White & did not know who he was talking about you would assume it was a woman.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
No shit
Didn’t I call his tone (as in, the context, his inflection) misogynistic?
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Dude, you said bitch is not as derogatory as
it has been in the past. I would say that it much more derogatory now a days.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Then you’d be wrong.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Yeah, because women have become
less independent these days, right?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Any namecalling is questionable,
but when you direct a term like “bitch” at a woman it is way different than calling a man one.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Hey man, I like your signature. It shows how much you respect the mentally challenged.
This does show us, that as a society we need to create some new words to insult people. Words that do not refer to any special groups that have been designated as disadvantaged or oppressed. I suggest the word “dilznoofus”
lol, sounds like a plan to me Vig
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
i second that
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
But do we really need to care so much about the sex of Loretta Hunt and the slurness of ‘bitch’? It’s just really bad style to say ‘you dumb fucking whatever’ to any journalist for a guy in Dana’s position.
Of course that is very bad style for anyone to use when addressing anyone,
but it gets worse when you make it that personal. At least in my opinion.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
not necessarily true
my housemate is gay and he’ll refer to other gay guys as “fags”… not sure if its the same thing though…
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
You’re not disagreeing with me. It’s still far more rare than women self-referencing themselves as bitches. It’s become somewhat common. The word has lost some sensitivity whereas “faggot” is still almost unconditionally offensive.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
i was just sharing my personal experience, not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing i guess…
but you are right. as a woman, i use the term bitch quite often. i’ve been known to call my cat a bitch on occasion. staring at me with those piercing eyes… bitch.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
But you can’t discount the sender. From what you just said the n-word should have lost some sensitivity because black people use that term about themselves at times. If the sender is in a position of power relative to the recipient then the ‘sensitivity’ immediately materializes again. This would have been uncontroversially the case if Dana had called a black journalist ‘a dumb fucking N’. It’s about context as much as anything. And in this context the epithet ‘bitch’ is an amplification of the insult in that it activates the historical frame of male dominance over women. You don’t go calling women ‘bitch’, same as you don’t call black people by the n-word, even if they do it amongst themselves. It’s just a different charge to it.
True...
Obviously I don’t identify directly with the writer, because I am neither a female, nor am I homosexual, but as an MMA fan I don’t feel anyone should feel uncomfortable being a fan of the sport just because of their sexual identity…
I think also the derogatory terms that were referenced in the other thread are at times used without thinking of the consequences, and without the intent of simply disrespecting the Gay community, but I also know if a racial slur were to be spouted, intentions aside, I would probably have been offended, so I understand.
The problem at times with this topic, is that just like not all heterosexual people handle these situations well, I have PERSONALLY witnessed homosexual individuals hurt their own cause with their actions, by making heterosexual people feel uncomfortable in the same vein… I am very liberal, and interact with people of all kinds, all the time, and it does become annoying when a person (hetero, or homosexual) refers to two grown men in a fight with sexual innuendos and the like… These things do happen, and it is hard at times to not be upset by that as well.
News Flash:
He’s going to apologize.
UFC might not care about courting gay viewers, but businesses like Bud Light that are highly visible sponsors of the UFC can’t afford to have themselves targeted for boycotts by GLBT groups.
Anheuser-Busch InBev puts pressure on Zuffa, White aplogizes.
Mark you calendars accordingly.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 2, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions
It’s pretty obvious that an apology is forthcoming, but it’s not actually going to satiate anyone who’s calling for one (beyond the sponsors, who just want it on paper). This particular misstep will stick with Dana for a long time to come.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
I disagree
He’ll apologize. People will nod, dart a finger towards him and say “Don’t let it happen again” and it won’t. Then we’ll be back to watching new videos of him calling Tito a melon headed retard.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
I've been talking to Luke and trying to figure out the right way to say it...
but basically it’s that the apology would show that the organization at least cares SOMEWHAT about its public image. It should also lead to a change in behavior going forward as you can’t really do it, say sorry and then go back to the same behavior afterward
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s got to be about the culture of the sport and trying to reform it – about how it’s not about hating gays but being ignorant/negligent of their plight and how, as the sport grows, its views and values become more mainstream.
I’m available to write it.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 2, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Their plight? I think the gay community is more interested in removing negative connotations from their orientation/lifestyle, which extends to the derogatory term we’re discussing.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Their plight = discrimination based on their sexuality.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 2, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that
I just mean to say that it’s probably more common that they want to get past the negativity than to raise awareness of its existence.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
About 12% of the US population is gay. There are probably at least a dozen gay fighters in the UFC. Dana White is dumb for his choice of words and people in this country need to get over their homophobia
I’d be a little surprised if any fighters in the UFC are gay. Shocked if it were a dozen or more. Self-selection, you know.
by Michaelthebox on Apr 2, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the odds are greater than MLB, NFL, etc because it’s not a team sport
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 2, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, saying you don’t think a gay person could be a fighter is more discriminating than saying faggot.
That’s not what he said.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
He is shocked if any UFC fighters were gay? You know…. self selection. What the fuck is that supposed to mean then? What other profession is it okay to be shocked that a gay person is in that profession? That was homophobic whether you like it or not.
He didn’t say they couldn’t be. He suggested that it’s unlikely they would choose the field being as they are made to feel unwelcome by some.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
It was an ignorant statement no matter how you spin it. I probably spun it a little myself, but if I said I was shocked to see a black person in corporate america because I thought the environment would be unwelcoming, that would be a racist statement.
To be clear, I don’t agree with what he said. I just thought you misrepresented what he said.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I would say I hope you're kidding
…but then it isn’t funny, either.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
I know this isn’t what people want to hear right now…. But I really hope this doesn’t kill the Dana White Vlogs. Because I could see why it might.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Yeah, that would be a tragic loss to cinema verite.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 2, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Put down the macchiato
Believe it or not, I don’t weep openly while watching Dana White’s Vlog.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Get over the sensitive feelings. Did no one’s Dad here beat the crap out of them for misbehaving? Did no one’s Dad teach you how to be a man? Someone calls you a name, SO WHAT? Get over it. Go cry by yourself, but act like it doesn’t bother you in public if you have to. It’s just a name. Dana White didn’t go slash a gay dude’s tires. He just used a word is deragatory to gay people. We all say bitch, faggot, or “Jew” when someone stiff us… but we never mean it as hateful to a select group of people. Just the dueche we are calling that name.
no...sorry...I don't say Jew when someone stiffs us
but we get it…you’re a tough guy and we’re all too sensitive.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You're getting off topic
We’re not talking about the rights and wrongs of using these terms — the reality is this — in our current media and political environment it IS wrong because you’ll face pressure from sponsors to apologize.
Dana broke the rules of our society.
If you want to change those rules go to a political blog and get active.
But please stop expanding the discussion on BE.
This is not going to become a site where people start throwing slurs around or rationalizing their bullshit anti-social behavior.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
"We all say bitch, faggot, or "Jew" when someone stiff us…"
No, we don’t, in fact, all do that.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 2, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Jew? Seriously.
Perhaps your problem isn’t that your father beat you it’s that he didn’t beat you enough. Maybe it’s a generational thing but I was taught that being a man meant you did the right thing not that you became trash talking wannabe tough guy. A real man stands up and takes responsiblitiy for their actions and does the right thing at least pretend that you know the difference.
I just find it odd that guy who does the video blogs didn’t think twice about how those comments might of been taken before posting it. I know it was said on emotion and frustration boiling inside with the Sherdog crew, but somebody should have the common sense to be like " Hey, we can’t put this up, these comments are offensive."
by The Bronzeville Bully on Apr 2, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
That is true as well...
but I think there was a degree of “this is too good to not put up” along with some cocky attitude that “people just accept that this is how Dana acts”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sure they have someone who
is supposed to “police” this sort of stuff, but I would bet that Dana said fuck it & put it up anyway.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I think what’s gettng lost here is the sheer unprofessionalism of Dana White. We’ve all joked about how “fuck” was probably the first wrd he learned as a baby, but for the president of a sport fighting for credibility should not been seen, in public at the very least, speaking the way he does. Are saying things like “faggot” acceptable in:
-A job interview?
-A PhD thesis?
-A public presentation?
These are all formal events where the speaker should carry a sense of decorum. It’s not about being PC or offending sensibilites, but basic respect and the acknoledgement that actions affect others. Dana’s speech has potentially caused trouble for MMA, giving credence to those who think it’s ignorant bar brawling.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Going to rec that. Regardless of opinions on words and meanings there is no way that this is ok in professional terms, particularly for a company that wants to grow into the mainstream.
Recd.
Not just in professional terms though. I have a few friends that still speak similar to this & every time they do I am just like really?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I’m 40 years old and occasionally curse like a sailor but there are some things that are just off limits and there are times that control is called for(my mother thinks saying “pissed off” is a curse word so I severely monitor my language around her).
Right, I meant less about cursing in general
and about calling people “fags” or whatever. I curse all of the time as well and after hearing myself I am like what the hell is wrong with you man saying Fuck over and over.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I’ve worked on a lot of big construction sites, I’ve heard other people say things that make me feel bad for just being there but I do understand that there is a difference between a oil field worker being an ass and the president of a global company acting like that on a public video. Sometimes life isn’t fair, Dana gets to be rich and famous and I get to make fun of people and say dirty words.
Of course that is true,
I just meant we are all responsible for what comes out of our mouths & you never know who is going to hear you.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Yea I know what you mean I was just making a (roundabout) point that Dana has a whole lot more people listening to what he says than the rest of us do and he is responsible for a heck of a lot more too. If the pressure gets to be too much for him I’m sure there are plenty of us that would be happy to trade places.
Yep, I understand Dana operates under the hat of promoter as well as UFC president but the vast majority of people are going to have a very hard time separating the two personas.
He can’t flip out and cuss people out in a video thats intention is to be released to the public one minute and then expect it not to negatively affect him in negotiations with sponsors, television networks and arenas.
Yes the UFC is doing very well with him at the helm but in especially in this economy there is no reason to handicap your company’s business dealings and earning potential.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Self serving apology forthcoming
Dana White humiliated himself in front of a huge MMA fanbase and the entire MMA press. Even that narcisistic prick himself knows it. He’s going to apologize for his remarks and justify his anger by proclaiming his indignation was only because he loves the fighters and the sport so much. All he needs to do is stop taking negative comments so personally and combat ignorance with graciousness. We can all imagine Dana doing that right?
Personally i think his humiliation stems equaly from the faggot and dumb bitch comment. They really can’t be seperated as it was an attempt to define someone through viscous name caling. Now Dana is learning one of the great lessons of all time. YOU DO NOT GET TO DEFINE SOMEONE ELSE BY NAME CALLING OR DEROGOTORY COMMENTS. YOU ONLY DEFINE YOURSELF AS SOMEONE WHO NEEDS TO RESORT TO CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NAMES.
I figure Lorenzo pens something for release and puts Dana’s name on it while Dana rants about the media in the background. I wish they would just do what needs to be done and sign Randy Couture to be the UFC’s public spokesperson and send him out to be the face of the UFC. Dana could do what he does best and they could let someone else worry about being under the media microscope.
For anyone who still thinks the term "bitch" does not offend woman as much as it used to:
“But after seeing the president of the corporation that I spend much of my days writing about call another female member of the MMA media a "dumb b——,” I instantly become unwelcome in this world. Funny what a few little words can do."
Sounds like Maggie at Cagelinker has a small problem with that term.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Pretty sure it would not be as offensive to all women
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
And “nigger” used to be a term for Irish-Americans, therefore black people shouldn’t be upset about it, right?
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
that's a pretty obscure example...
to try to make an argument with… The ratios wouldn’t even compare I’m sure… but again I understand your point.
i love maggie
she gets a lot of flak, but she’s a solid writer and obviously a big fan of the sport
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
read the responses she gets
man they tear into her. just today she made a funny post about the queen vs. michelle obama at ufc 101 and she gets all these really awful responses… i know its a part of being a blogger, and being a woman blogger on a subject that is male dominated isn’t easy. i give her so much props. she really loves MMA.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
i meant ufc 100
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
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Maybe if members of the MMA media had bothered to defend Dana White from some of the conspiracy laden charges of Loretta Hunt he wouldn’t have felt the need to answer this challenge. Any decision that Dana makes these days will cause hundreds of posts involving some over reaching paranoid theory involving why he is doing it and how he is using it to punish some guy that may have offended him. The best example was the article the other day talking about how the ufc is adding more and more undercard fights. Most fans would think great, fighters get to fight, I get to watch these fights, horray. Not posters on this sight who immediately jumped to the conclusion that Dana White is doing this to punish fighters in some weird way by giving them fights. Remember when you point a finder 3 more point back at you.
I have no problem with Dana coming out
& making sure the truth is known, even if he does so very adamantly. But he has got to know whatever he does is pretty much public record & that he will be held accountable for it.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I guess the question should be, do we really want to know how Dana feels or not, cause I bet this is the last behind the scenes VLOG we will ever see, and I really enjoyed them.
For me, hell yeah!
I love hearing Dana & these have been great so I would hate to see them go. But I would like to think that Dana is a smart enough guy to just not say these sort of things & that would be enough. How hard can it be for him to not use these sorts of terms?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I know, I mean if this really does kill his
blogs I guess that we have our answer.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
If Dana wants to go on an expletive laden tirade upon reacting to a media article that gets under his skin, the least he can do is not ask his cameraman to film it for posterity first before he can get himself to react in a more composed manner. Or, failing that, he could have at least decided that maybe they should not post that part to the internet.
If Dana White wants to apologize, all he has to say is: “I apologize for using the hateful words ‘faggot’ and ‘bitch’ in my response to Loretta Hunt’s online article the other day. That was over the line and completely inappropriate. That being said, anonymous sources are still fucking pussies, and Loretta Hunt is still a fucking moron who lowers the collective IQ of all internet journalists with her fucking mindblowing stupidity.”
I wouldn’t agree with all of that hypothetical statement, but it would still help matters.
You realize what Loretta Hunt was accusing Dana of (creating a wedge between managers and fighters so that he could negotiate with fighters directly) is something that the WWE has successfully done for years. It’s hardly unprecedented. It’s not like she was pulling this shit out of her ass. Dana White just happened to have a very logical explanation for denying credentials, which was the basis for Hunt’s assumptions, and which exposed her lack of research. Unfortunately he chose to convey this like a 7th grader throwing a tantrum.
Furthermore, considering that he responded the same day the article was posted, few MMA journalists even had time to respond to Hunt’s article before Dana White did.
by Chromium on Apr 2, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You realize what Loretta Hunt was accusing Dana of (creating a wedge between managers and fighters so that he could negotiate with fighters directly) is something that the WWE has successfully done for years.
Pro-Wrestlers have managers?
Since when?
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
A point that's being missed
People keeping discussing how, as President of a major public organization, Dana White has a obligation to present himself in a professional manner, or refrain from a constant use of foul language and offending certain demographics. The problem with that logic is that Dana doesn’t answer to anyone, nor does he have anything to prove in his position. If the Fertitta’s cracked the whip a bit, or sponsors threatened to pull their support, Dana could scale it back. In a way, this video had to happen (how much is too far? This much). But comparing his behavior to that of an individual that is trying to earn a degree or is interviewing for a position (as I’ve seen) is misguided. A guy like Roger Goodell (who has been prefaced repeatedly) could be ousted by an uprising of unhappy NFL owners and sponsors much larger and greater in number than anything the UFC currently has.
Dana is at the top of the food chain, in a privately held company, that is owned by his best friends. Holding him to a congenial standard is essentially a moral viewpoint and not a professional one. And even though I believe he’s a made man, I hope the Fertitta’s are letting him know that he’s not free to do as he pleases; particularly in this critical time in our sports growth.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Agree with this…
except the part that Fertittas need to crack the whip, nothing wrong has happend…
a bunch of minor sites that no one cares about in the real world picked up a story for “hits” to their site, nothing will come of it besides the vlog being taken down a possibly stopped…
No...
fox sports is not a minor site…deadspin is the largest sports blog on the internet (I don’t like them…but still), the largest gay and lesbian organization in America is pushing for an apology.
It’s hardly just a “minor” thing at this point
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If 99% of the time nothing happens it would still be very stupid to risk that 1% when it completly blows up in your face to ruinous results, particularly over something so easily avoided by occasionally not throwing profanity laden public temper tantrums.
Uh oh, google news now have 12 stories on this rather than the 8 stories this morning, this shit is blowing up…. The wolverine movie leak story only has like 700 stories.
As the President of a company that’s sole product is a media product they directly sell to the public then yes he better be extremely aware about how his statements affect public perception of his company. This isn’t a guy who owns a company that makes car parts he sells to other companies he is a public figure who is trying to get his company positive mainstream attention and growth and his company is 100% dependant on interaction with the public because if people stop buying their product then he stops having a company.
Didn't say he shouldn't
I said he hasn’t.
Also, to touch on your point, he’s selling fights, not jeans or ice cream. If your suggestion is that this will severely effect their current rate of business, you’re wrong.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
If you have a crystal ball to back up that his mouth might not one day hurt the company then I’m all ears but the effects of this are speculation at this point.
Not really
18-34 year old males are their main demo. It’s pretty black and white.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Will it always be their main demographic? Will this kind of thing fly overseas where they are expanding to? This is a long way from a black and white situation.
Stop redefining the topic
If your suggestion is that this will severely effect their current rate of business, you’re wrong.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Current rate is what you say I have been talking about the future through multiple threads now, I’m not redefining I am looking at a larger picture than you are. Zuffa’s publicly stated goal isn’t to stay the same and to stick to the current demographic it’s to grow into the mainstream and if you want to do that then you have to look towards the future not the present.
Multiple threads?
You’re talking to me. Your name suddenly seems appropriate.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
It was a point that I am not redefining anything I have stayed pretty much on the same points for two days now across multiple article discussions.
Of course if you want to just get specific my point in this exchange never had anything to do with current business it had to do with growth of the company. That is why I keep talking about mainstream attention and growth (which is Dana’s and Lorenzo’s talking point not mine) as opposed to how this will affect UFC 97 ppv sales.
I mostly disagree with you in every form of this argument
I’ve done marketing for many years (and have created promotional materials for, and marketed, MMA, wrestling and boxing events in the past). You don’t effectively market fights to women and homosexuals— you market fights to short tempered, testorsterone fueled 18-34 year old males with disposable income. Will you get some sensible males to show up to the fight, and can you market to them additionally? Yes, of course. Will there be women? No doubt. Homosexuals? Sure, maybe. But you don’t market to those groups, you dig a carving knife into the fat underbelly. That’s MMA’s key demo. That’s UFC’s main audience. Those individuals are mostly unmoved by this episode, and that is right now when it’s freshest in our minds (and most impactful). I’ve seen one person threaten to take their money off the table, but Dana hasn’t made his apology yet and this just happened.
This will have nearly zero effect on the UFC’s economics going forward and it’s very clear that it will never happen again.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
If he never does it again then I agree it won’t be a problem in the future, if he does then they will have problems in the future. You don’t market fights to those other groups but honestly who in their right mind would think it would be a good idea to piss them off for no reason besides a lack of personal control? There is only so much growth in the target demographic before you have to expand out of that and there just isn’t any arguement that can be made that would ever convince me that it isn’t a bad idea to marginalize or alienate the rest of the country outside that demographic.
(oh and it’s probably me in the other article that said that I might pull my money off the table)
Lots of things are bad ideas
I’m a business owner. I could get really drunk and get kicked out of a bar for punching someone. Will it almost certainly effect my bottom line? No, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad idea.
Yes, Dana acted in poor judgment. But I maintain that the UFC’s business will not see any effect. There are a lot more 18-34 year old males in the world to bring into the fold before Dana will being worrying how he’s going to entice 40 year old women to watch men fight one another.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
And I refuse to apologize.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
lol
nice. I agree with you though. The argument against his comments seem to be the damage it does to the sport but I think the majority of their current demographic isn’t offended. The fact that this will be a non issue in a few days takes care of any other demographic with which they want to be associated.
This post leads me to believe that Dana’s tirade is actually a good thing.
1. This guy always assumed that the MMA community tended to homophobia. Now in reading the response to Dana’s comments, he realizes that his assumption wasn’t completely true. Maybe he has more courage about speaking out about it.
2.Dana probably doesn’t hate Homosexuals or women. So this is his learning experience. I personally believe that he likes the sport more than he likes saying faggot or bitch. So he’ll hopefully tone it down somewhat.
3. Maybe we’ll look back at this as a sort of turning point. Maybe they’ll make efforts to make TUF more palettable for those of us who aren’t interested in watching one man piss his shorts in front of his friends etc etc.
But I do think that ultimately it’s going to be the profit that comes from mainstream acceptance that creates the change. Because Reaser is right, Dana doesn’t answer to anybody. He has every right to conduct himself the way he wants.
By the way, kenflo-BJ is official at UFC 101 in philly.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Love that theres a million articles talking about racism and discrimination yet I get issued a warning just because I was a member of the United States Army. Classic, this is worse than when I was 17 and applied for a dishwasher job at a resteraunt and they said they’ve been trying to fill the position for months and want to hire me but can’t hire me because they needed to hire a minority to reached their quota….brilliant, reverse discrimination…
I apologize to all the bloggers of BE for being a member of the United States Army, apparently me and my kind aren’t welcome in the BE community, I will let other troops know so we don’t mess up this site with facts and or our opinions, this isn’t the site for us and we are not welcome here…
There’s no need to lie about why you were warned.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
why was I warned them, if its not because of being in the army what is it, saying facts that PETA and organizations like them are out for attention (I buy a dog, dog has freak accidentent where his leg breaks, PETA sues me, demands a public apology, demands I get a catscan, demands I enter a psyche ward, demands I pay them 2 million dollars in damages, etc….)
I said a fact and not in a “bad” way, but was warned, my posts also included that I was in the army, so I assumed thats why I was warned….
Don’t play dumb – why would anyone warn you for being in the Army? Our editor-in-chief is a former Marine.
You did not say “PETA and organizations like them are out for attention.” You said that gay people could be serving in the military if they wanted to, but they’re too busy being attention whores in groups like GLAAD and PETA.
Contributor Emeritus - BloodyElbow.com
Luke’s a former marine? Did not know that.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ha, way to change what I said, conveinent…
I said gay people can serve in the military (I’de fight with any American at my side) to answer someone saying they can’t because they have to hide their identity and lie about who they are, I said that isn’t true…
then I said and I think people should fight for their country instead of being part of groups that are “attention whores” like PETA and GLAAD….
Openly gay people cannot serve in the US military. Read here. I agree with you, though, any American who wants to fight should be allowed to (extreme cases notwithstanding).
I am beginning to resent the assumption that being in the military is superior. Yes, good laws require good arms. However, the same army that forced back the Nazis also pillaged Berlin and firebombed Dresden. The same military that overthrew Saddam also commits war crimes. I’m not saying that “the army is evil” or anything that extreme, simply that just because someone served in the armed forces is no immediately reason to celebrate them. There have been both great soldiers and evil soldiers, like in every other walk of life.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed, I tried (and apparently failed) and showing that being gay is just another part of society, such as war veterans, african-americans, etc…
no one has any problem posting anything negative about me, saying I’m a troll or disrespectful since I served, but Dana says the word faggot and people flip out…
me being in the army doesn’t make me better than any “normal” person…
nor does being gay make any gay man better than any “normal” person…
nor does (allegedly) loving animals make someone better than any “normal” person…
my point about GLAAD, or PETA…which was missed because people focus too much on the army or I didn’t word it well..
I didn’t word it well
That’s what happened. There’s a difference between saying “X does something for publicity” and “X is an attention whore.” Consider the difference between telling a woman, “That dress isn’t flattering” and “That dress make your ass look fat.” Same sentiment, only one conveys tact and the other is crass. You speak like the latter, unfortunately, and your message is lost. There’s a difference of intensity between “disrespectful” and “faggot”, an distinction you seem to have missed.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
People underestimate the subtleties of languages. I even proofread my text messages for clarity.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad I’m not the only one who does that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I got what you were trying to say under the last article, this isn’t about your point it’s about the fact that you blew past a line and then acted all offended that people asked you to cut it out.
i wasn’t offended…
it was continueing to try and make a point, such as people can say what they want about me or you, but if you say something negative about an animal or a gay man then you have GLAAD and PETA all over your ass…
poorly executed by me, which I admitted, but some people got what i was doing/trying to say…
The fact that you have to constantly bring up over and over again that you were in the military is a bit insulting, numerous members of my family have fought and died for this country and my father is a disabled veteran but I never had to listen to them harping on it to try and give creedence to an irrelevant point. This is a interesting debate so I am asking you nicely to please stop disrespecting the US military that has meant so much to my family by dragging it into a discussion on MMA and curse words.
glad you agree that this discussion is weak since its JUST about mma and curse words…
maybe you finally got my point, lots more things important that this “story”, such as serving your country…
and both my parents died in the army, and i served in the army, I’ve actually been in war, so don’t talk to be about disrespect..
No I will talk about disrespect because that kind of crap doesn’t have any place here at all and that is what is disrespectful, stop being an asshole about it. Seriously we all drift off and get knocked back on topic occasionally but lording “I was in the military” around just makes you sound like a pompus ass.
As far as the story being important or not who cares, we aren’t going to change anything in these threads anyway but you being a jerk takes enjoyment out of actually having an adult discussion about an adult topic. If you don’t want to do that then just go away and find a topic more to your liking.
glad you can say people who fight for your freedom are assholes but Dana can’t say the word Dumb Bitch…
(which was my point, and I don’t constantly bring it up, you’re posting more about it than me)
off topic, but just to go further into “bad” words, I’m white and have been called the n-word by my black friends and black gf more times than I’ve ever heard anyone ever use the word in a negative way to describe african-americans…don’t mean anything just find it odd…
No one here has a problem with you because you served in the military. If anything that’s a point in your favor.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
glad you can say people who fight for your freedom are assholes but Dana can’t say the word Dumb Bitch
See – you say you don’t think being in the army makes you better than anyone else, yet you shroud it in language of superiority. You refer to soldiers as people who “fight for your freedom”, a phrase which associates itself with moral unrighteousness, and therefore anyone who disagrees with the military must not like freedom. It’s a faulty claim, but sadly effective. I have no problem with you serving, it’s your choice, but I don’t like feeling as though I’m a lesser American for not enlisting.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
missing the point I was trying to make, a freedom of speech thing…
if you call me a murderer because I was in the Army people around here would be fine with it because I’m a “troll”…
if dana calls a bad journalist a dumb bitch people flip out…
If anyone calls you a murderer because you were in the Army, I’ll ban them.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I am pro free speech too but I also understand the responsiblity that goes behind it. Constitutional free speech doesn’t equate to being free from the repercussions of that speech. Dana White isn’t going to go to jail for what he said but that doesn’t mean he isn’t free from being called down for saying it.
Actually, Luke would probably warn me because he’s a former Marine. I certainly don’t think you’re a murderer (I’m assuming you never actually murdered anyone, and I wouldn’t correlate that with being in the military). I also don’t think you’re a troll, I recognize your name for a while now. And I get the “freedom of speech” argument, I’m friends with a civil liberties attorney and we discuss this stuff frequently, but I’m attacking a whole other position: the nuances of your word use. You cloak your service in the words of moral superiority, and I resent that because I don’t plan on enlisting. My services to the country are better spent elsewhere.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t bring it up and I didn’t write a big post about how military vets weren’t welcome here that crossed the line in a big way. I have a lot of respect for military vets but that doesn’t get you a free pass. I can tell you that you are acting like an asshole because you are and Dana White can tell Lorretta Hunt she was acting like an asshole when she wrote that article and no one would be talking about him now, why is it that you can’t see the difference? The issue isn’t that Dana said a bad word or called someone a name it’s that he crossed a very visable line with his comments.
Yeah, the dishwasher thing sucks – I’ll grant you that. But don’t see what being in the military has anything to do with the situation at hand – it’s all a bit of a red herring, so to speak. I doubt you’re the only person on the site to have enlisted.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 2, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s on the MSN homepage with a “watch it” link. That is quite a bit more exposure than just being on MMA sites, it’s the most watched video of the day on Fox sports. Honestly I am hoping this just blows over but it might not.
their poll is failing them though. at least it’s failing them on their stance at least. i hope that dana apologizes soon and it goes away quickly as well.
by bdw on Apr 2, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It's also failing
because the MMA community is very self-preservationist. It’s well known that when a negative story about the sport ends up on a news site that isn’t just an MMA site fans flood it.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t stand the Moral Majority. Sticks and stones, etc.
Hate on me if you want. Words don’t hurt me.
"Negative, negative. I gotta stay lean and lightning and ready to fight." Capt. H.M. Murdock
by BadB on Apr 2, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Grouping GLAAD with the Moral Majority is pretty funny.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Apr 2, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
for beating me to the punch.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree 100%. I have been called much much worse and guess what…I am still alive today. My feelings were not hurt, I was still able to sleep and my children still love me.
The moral high ground soo many run to and defend is laughable. I can not condemn someone who has used words in a disagreement. I didn’t see near the outcry from this site about a female being physically abused by a fighter.
Calling this “hate speech” is absolute crap, he didn’t call upon anyone to do harm to a gay person. He used it as an adjective to describe someone he resents. If you were really offended by his little youtube video you need to look in the mirror and ask why.
We don’t live in a perfect world. Those of us who realize that are way ahead of those who don’t. The world doesn’t fit into a little PC glass bowl. There are people who swear, steal, abuse and murder.
I think Dana should apologize but it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if he didn’t.
sorry, but i disagree
I imagine it wouldn’t hurt your feelings because you are neither a woman or gay. These are assumptions and I apologize if they are made in error. But the whole “words don’t hurt” is just more machismo BS. Of course words hurt. Maybe not physically, but do you honestly think someone calling me a “bitch” or a “nigger” don’t have a very real impact on me?
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
Has nothing to do with machismo and more with reality. The reality is they are words. The reality is people who utter these words are usually ignorant and always incorrect. If someone called you a “bitch” or “nigger” how would you respond? By verbally attacking them? Physically attacking them?
Like I said, I have been called a lot worse and in front of family/co workers/friends. Its not about the WORDS, its about the situation. I cannot change your views on this as you cannot change mine. We just live by different sets of social rules. I don’t let ignorant speech or actions offend me. If my children happen to be present I calmly explain to them why and what the situation is.
I respect your points of view, I would just hope that others would respect mine. With the language and tone of Dana upsetting you I would say don’t watch the UFC.
I think a lot of posters on this site need to read a Dr Laura book. Bet that gets me flamed. Thank you for your point of view tiger.
I can respect your point of view Riney, even if I disagree. Again, I imagine that you are not offended by Dana’s words because you can not relate and don’t see what the big deal is. Like you said, it’s just words right? Words are a weapon too my friend, and to be frank, I am one who believes that words cut much deeper than any knife.
And my reaction to Dana’s outburst is not in any way a reflection of how I feel about MMA or the UFC as a whole. Suggesting that I should stop watching the UFC because I don’t like what Dana White said on his vlog is just plain ridiculous.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
I have never walked in your shoes so I can not say words don’t hurt you, I was using my own experience as a guide. I have always figured the best way to get someones attention was thru their wallet. Not ordering PPV is one way to show how offended you were at the comments. It wasn’t meant as a jab, sorry you thought it was ridiculous.
Recommending Dr Laura to me is a very, very effective method of getting me to disregard whatever else you say.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 3, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The proper feeding and care of a husband was a great book. You have to have an open mind to understand both sides of an issue. I know you are very left wing subo but I still listen to you. You have a lot of knowledge about MMA.
I don’t think any less or more of someone for their beliefs. I think that it’s part of the problem in society today. If “they” don’t like your point of view or stand on an issue then you are not worth listening to.
I have never let my beliefs cloud my judgment about anyone or anything.
That was more tongue in cheek – I know there are some hardcore righties on this board that know more than me about lots of stuff.
It’s always good to have differing viewpoints around you – keeps you on your toes. Pick up an Al Franken book and lemme know what you think, and I’ll consider trying Dr Laura.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 4, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
It didn’t hurt my feelings but I do realize that if you are going to be a public figure then you have to play by the public rules. Just because you personally don’t take something as insulting is irrelevant because you only represent yourself not the entire population. The UFC’s stated goal is to break into the mainstream as a huge sport to do that they can’t be insulting large groups of people, whether it is right or wrong that is how things work.
Of course you could also just look at it from what you would feel if Dana White had just called your wife or your mother a stupid f’ing bitch.
The Funniest Part...
Is if Dana was going off about Gary Shaw, and Elite XC, or the T-Shirt guys, this wouldn’t be near the issue it has become because he insulted a woman, and used a slur that often references gay people…
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