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Around SBN: Dana White Announces Koscheck vs. Hendricks for UFC on FOX

The Case for Anderson Silva

Reasonable people can disagree, so I thought I'd also air Sergio Non's perspective after sharing mine:

Leites never presented another significant threat in the affair. By the fourth round he wasn't mounting any serious takedown attempts, and simply dropping to mat, as if somehow he could will Silva to come down with him.

Silva contented himself with throwing the occasional strike, particularly to Leites' left leg. The titleholder felt safe enough to start playing around with side kicks and Ali-style body movements to tempt Leites out of his survival shell, but the challenger would have none of it -- if Silva wouldn't hit the ground, the Leites had nothing else to offer.

It's hard to blame Silva for his opponent's one-dimensional approach. Why should Silva have to prove anything? He already has the title belt. No less a fighter than former light-heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell bristled at the notion that Silva was to blame for lack of aggression.

"The guy threw punches at the air and (Leites) fell to his back," said Liddell, a counterstriker himself by nature. Silva "was attacking him the whole time."

Well, except he wasn't attacking the whole time at all, but it bears repeating that Leites deserves his fair share of the blame for retreating to guard flopping time after time. And to that end: Leites has shown durability in his previous fights and expressed a willingness to push the action in the run up to the fight. Zuffa may have made a mistake in booking Leites for the fight, but only because hindsight is 20/20. He talked positively about bringing the fight to Silva given what a grand opportunity this was and his previous bouts have shown him to be a fighter historically unafraid of taking damage to win. That Thales Leites gave way to one that was risk averse to a frustrating degree and made Silva's task of merely engaging far more difficult.

I still believe Silva could've tried far harder to overcome this (and not to the degree that Silva should at all times risk life and limb to accomplish the task of fighting; I am not advocating that Silva needlessly burn brain cells for the fans' entertainment dollar now or ever), but every fight requires two to tango. Leites didn't seem keen on dancing in Silva's ballet of violence.

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Could have been better.

You know the bad part of this fight is, it wasn’t the worst fight I have ever seen (go watch some fights at the local Indian casinos in California). I would have been mad if I paid for a ticket, but overall the card was good and the main-event just wasn’t an “event”.

I never want to see these two fight again, but I can’t blame Anderson for not rushing in and losing on the ground, and Leites did the only thing he could do to win (fall on the ground and act like a girl on prom night).

Oh yea, and the one thing to remember in a “title fight”, the opponent needs to beat the champ, not the other way around, Anderson did what he need to to keep his title (as boring as that was) and Leites did nothing (let me say again “NOTHING”) to win the fight.

Lets just hope these two are never in the same building again and “hope” Henderson or Bisping beat the champ and don’t just think lying on the ground and doing nothing or for that matter standing up and doing nothing will win them the fight.

Also, I’m not so sure that after watching the last two Silva fights he wants anything to do with GSP in a “super fight”. I could see grease on grease crime with GSP ending Silva’s mystique, but maybe that’s just me.

by JustinWF on Apr 19, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree. Leites did nothing other than his one successful takedown. After gassing or his legs getting sore from kicks he did nothing but retreat and butt flop. The fight did suck, but why should Silva have to throw caution to the wind to make the fight exciting when his opponent thinks he’s in a Mundial match?

The problem is there is no one at middle weight who is a challenge for Silva. Bispeng? Please! At least I don’t see Bispeng butt flopping.

Also, that Leites fight successfully ended the whole exictement about Damian Maia!

by pwdmarcello on Apr 19, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

bisPING!

dana and the guys are afraid that okami would be boring, but i am as sure as hell that he wouldn’t be flopping around if silva fought him..

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You won’t see GSP playing fainting goat during a fight. Heck Anderson Silva seems to fight up or down to the level of his opposition, perhaps a fight with GSP is what he needs.

by who me on Apr 19, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Luke...

Reasonable people can indeed disagree. I wish more people took that attitude. As an opinionated person myself, it is amazing how many people I run up against who get offended by my very own personal opinion, which I never understood.

Anyway, the Silva debacle is disheartening. Probably like most fans of MMA, I have (had?) a borderline man-crush on The Spider. I’m still working out what I think/feel about the fight. First, I would like to say that for me this is not necessarily the end of my fandom for Silva. If he turns in performances in his next few fights like we know he can, I will simply assume he was in a small slump and forgive. I don’t blame Silva for the Cote fight quite as much, since the fight ended abruptly and it was not Silva’s fault that Cote’s knee blew unexpectedly. We will never know if he might have opened up in the 3rd or subsequent rounds, and so I would probably give the benefit of the doubt to Silva based on his previous fights.

The combination of Silva being aware that Leites was out-classed badly and the (very real) danger of Leites pulling a submission out of his ass may have made Silva overly cautious. It’s worth considering that Silva may have simply decided that the UFC is sending sheep to slaughter and angled towards a win with little damage, not to himself, but to Leites. The strategy may have been adopted by Silva (his corner clearly was imploring him to engage) to minimize damage to Leites, since he clearly had nothing, and it’s not Leites’ fault the UFC can’t put forward an actual contender. Admittedly, this thought is made less probable by the fact that Silva threw those potentially brutal kicks to the knee, but I thought I’d offer the thought.

I personally am much less inclined than some on this site to roast a fighter for a bad outing. If the next fight is like this and his opponent DOES engage, then I can rethink, but just as I don’t hate my team’s QB when he throws 4 interceptions against any one defense, I won’t disown Silva for the same. The totality of his body of work have brought me much enjoyment, and I just hope that we see the Spider of old, and soon.

by Jiiri on Apr 19, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Luke, holla at your boy Jordan Breen.....

Ask him to post his thoughts on your article. I’m curious.

by Dexerion on Apr 19, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions  

From what I remember of the “After the Bell” show, he was pretty reserved about the whole thing.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 19, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm listening to the pod cast as we speak....

I actually got an email from Jordan saying he doesn’t agree w/ Luke on this one. I’d like to hear some details.

by Dexerion on Apr 19, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea I am pretty sure their point on Beatdown was that Anderson Silva did his job and won the fight.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

silva could've tried harder to finish, and he should get criticism for that..

but leites should also be blamed because it takes two people two fight..
especially since he knows he’s down at the score cards, he should’ve made an effort to try and win the fight.. but he didn’t..

silva was more passive than his normal self.. but let us not forget who wanted to initiate the action more.. silva was tentative, but leites just did not want to win..

it takes two to tango, so the criticism should be both ways.. period.

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 10:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, as mentioned a million times already

The UFC deserves a fraction of the blame for manufacturing ‘challenges’ for Silva that really aren’t. It must have been frustrating for Silva to throw a punch and then be swinging at air as Leites flopped, but I think if Silva had exploded with combinations and Leites had repeatedly flopped, we really wouldn’t be blaming Silva so much as Leites. Unfortunately, Silva didn’t explode. As I mentioned in my post above, I am really wondering if Silva wasn’t purposely trying to keep Leites from any kind of serious damage when he didn’t need to against an obviously out-classed opponent.

by Jiiri on Apr 19, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes. the ufc also deserves a bulk of the crap thrown at silva..

maybe silva should get some of the shit on his face and throw it at dana and joe silva? haha.

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dana’s reaction to this fight is very interesting. He was ashamed of the way Silva fought. Dana’s reaction is the official ufc position. Silva was clowning and not throwing down. Maybe Silva wants to get cut.

by pwdmarcello on Apr 19, 2009 11:24 PM EDT reply actions  

UFC should cut Leites

This will put an exclamation mark on UFC 97 and put everyone on notice for this type of shenanigans during a title fight.

by cyph on Apr 19, 2009 11:36 PM EDT reply actions  

nah..

he’ll just emerge as an even bigger star outside the division seeing as he’s the only guy who went to a decision and “challenged” silva.. haha.

by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean he’ll go on to sell 15000 tickets for 700k gate and no PPV?

by cyph on Apr 19, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the title is your dream, go for it. If you decide you can’t win and don’t really want it as much as you thought you did, then tell your corner you want out.

Anderson has already held the title, Thales has not, which is why I would expect Thales to be more motivated to fight.

Anderson, the way the fight was going, was going to retain the belt. That’s another reason why Thales needed to step it up late.

by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Yep. Anderson Silva didn’t have to finish Leites to keep the belt he already had that fight easily in hand by the third round. It was Thales Leites that should of been the one pushing to try and win the belt.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would a point deduction by the referee have been legitimate in response to Leites “pulling guard”?

Leites was essentially NOT FIGHTING at times, which essentially puts him in the class of a Kalib Starnes.

by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Leites wasn’t running away he was trying to lure Silva to the ground, it was obviously not going to work but it wasn’t the same thing that Starnes did.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still can’t understand why the judges didn’t see Leites fighting for what it was and give him 10-7 or 10-6 rounds in the 3rd 4th and 5th good job luke on reporting both the pros and cons of silva’s performance

by drano on Apr 20, 2009 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

It’s Antonio Inoki, the Hulk Hogan of Japanese pro wrestling.

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 20, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t get this argument. Thales wasn’t fighting back or threatening so Silva decided not to fight? The man is a professional fighter in a championship fight. How is that kind of behavior in any way justifiable?

Thales’ terrible performance doesn’t justify Anderson’s terrible performance. Each man stands accountable for how awful this fight turned out.

And another thing: I’m sick of hearing Starnes/Quarry comparisons. Starnes stayed out of range for the entire fight, keeping Quarry from ever having the opportunity to engage. Silva had multiple opportunities over the span of 5 rounds and consciously chose not to capitalize.

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Silva didn’t decide not to fight he just fought how he wanted to fight, if he had decided not to fight then he wouldn’t of won on the judges scorecards. Anderson Silva was in there to win the fight and defend his title not to satisfy fan expectations, he easily dominated that fight heck he could of done a lot less and still won on the judges scorecards. It was a sucky fight but Silva did way more than he needed to in order to win the fight, the only way to force him to fight harder is to put him in there with someone who is going to make him to fight harder. A professional fighter in a championship fight’s goal is to win or keep the belt not to fight how the fans think they should of fought, Anderson Silva handily won that fight.

As far as the Starnes vs Quarry comparisons that is silly. Silva vs Leites was a bad fight, Starnes vs Quarry wasn’t even a fight at all it was a game of tag.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

The idea that it’s acceptable for a fighter (not to mention a champion and a top candidate for #1 pound for pound) to do the bare minimum to win a fight because his opponent isn’t threatening him is laughable.

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

He didn’t do the bare minimum to win he easily had that fight in hand. He didn’t do what people wanted but he was winning that fight going away, it was a domination on the judges scorecards. Don’t confuse him not fighting as you thought he should of fought with him not doing anything.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

The man is a professional fighter in a championship fight. How is that kind of behavior in any way justifiable?

Forget, for a moment, Anderson’s performance.

Now, compare Starnes’ and Leites’ passiveness and you might see some similarities. The action is different, yes. But the willingness to fight is nearly equal.

Thales is in the biggest fight of his life! He’s losing on the scorecards! He’s not particularly hurt! What excuse does he have for falling to the ground to avoid punches when he knows Anderson won’t follow him there? How does he throw 63 strikes to his opponent’s 148?

by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

The difference between Starnes/Quarry and Silva/Leites is that Quarry wanted to fight and never got the opportunity whereas Silva had every opportunity and never took advantage of it.

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not talking about Anderson, nor about Quarry.

by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

This because Anderson did not play the Quarry role, but Thales did his best impression of Kalib.

by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

But the comparison doesn’t fit because Kalib was passive in a different way.

Kalib successfully stifled all attempts at engaging and the blame for that fight lays squarely on him.

Thales was passive but wide open to any kind of offense over and over again but Anderson decided not to pull the trigger. They are both to blame for that shitty fight.

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thales did everything but run. He probably would have ran except that it would have gassed him and gotten him beaten up quicker because Anderson is mobile and skilled enough to hit a moving target unlike Quarry.

Seems the best thing to do with Anderson is to stand right in front of him and not make any sudden movements.

by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sports v. Entertainment

Yes, mma is a sport and a win within the rules is just that.

However, a ufc event is not like some Saturday afternoon college basketball game of Colorado State v. Wyoming. Watch it or don’t it’s up to you.

I being asked to shell out $50 for a 2.5 hour event! Let us nor forget, that is a shit load of money considering what I’m buying. I don’t pay money to watch any other sport. It damn well better be exciting.

by pwdmarcello on Apr 20, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions  

That’s why Dana White and the UFC has every reason to be upset about this it is their job to give you your money’s worth, Anderson Silva’s job is to win fights not entertain viewers. Perhaps they should question headlining cards with Silva or even putting him on PPV at this point but it isn’t their job (or our job as fans) to tell Anderson Silva how to fight.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

So keeping his employer happy isn’t part of Silva’s job as a fighter?

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you really want Dana White telling fighters how to game plan and fight their fights? Do you want Dana White cutting fighters just because they aren’t exciting enough? Just because they run that gladiator crap at the first of events doesn’t mean these guys are fighting for Caesar’s pleasure. I’m sure this will cost Silva fans and money but that is his perogative. Lets face facts he handily won that fight, it’s not like he squeaked by that fight was never in doubt, it sucked ass but it was never even close.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tell that to the judge who scored the fight 48-47.

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

As opposed to the two judges that scored the fight 49-46 and 50-46? One judge giving Leites 2 of 5 rounds isn’t Anderson Silva squeaking by, particularly when the other two judges pretty much gave him the whole fight.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, that has to be low on Anderson’s list of priorities. He isn’t Ed Herman or Sam Stout fighting to keep his job. The UFC isn’t cutting him loose so long as he has the belt. And even if he loses and gets cut in the future (highly unlikely) he can certainly make a bunch of money elsewhere (if he even needs to).

http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Apr 20, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

As Chuck proved the other night, everyone’s career has its limits. The question for Anderson is: does he want to end up like has-been primadonnas Arlovski and Ortiz, unable to consistently find fights outside of the organization that made him a star because he burned bridges when he thought too highly of himself?

Even a universally beloved Randy has shown that once the Zuffa bridge is burned your comeback hopes are limited to being high profile cannon fodder for the next big thing.

by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

You mean the Andre Arlovski that just made a million dollars off one fight and has moved on to boxing or the Randy Couture who came back and wanted to fight Brock Lesnar first because it was the fight that would make him the most millions on his PPV cut? Heck even with crazy old Tito lets not act like the guys is broke and suffering or that he couldn’t go back and sign with the UFC if he wanted to because you know they would re-sign him if he would just agree to a price that actually made sense. Dana White would sign a girl scout to fight a grizzly bear if he thought he could make a buck off of it, that bridge is only burned if he doesn’t think he can still make money off of a fighter.

by who me on Apr 20, 2009 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Andre Arlovski who’s MMA career is at such a dead end that a career in boxing looks pretty good even though his chin can’t stand up to a stiff breeze.

The Randy Couture who came back to the UFC because they prevented him from fighting elsewhere, banned any mention of his gym at their shows, fed him to a powerhouse of a contender he had no business fighting at his age and essentially left him with one fight (Nog) before retirement.

And the Ortiz who has done absolutely nothing in mixed martial arts since being bounced out of the organization in a humiliating fight against the worst possible match up for him.

Those three burned bridges and they were some of the top moneymakers in the organization. Silva draws jack, making a burnt bridge all the more perilous to his future career prospects.

by George Lucas on Apr 21, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Luke, I gotta go against you here. You’ve still got a pretty decent batting average.

by Derek Suboticki on Apr 20, 2009 3:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Anderson Silva = San Antonio Spurs. They both win all the time but NOBODY wants to watch them. They have great fundamentals and Defense, but can’t put butts in seats.

by CliChe Guevara on Apr 20, 2009 3:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm calling bullshit
“Leites deserves his fair share of the blame for retreating to guard flopping time after time.”

Leites deserves the LION’S SHARE of blame for NEVER ENGAGING IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.

“Zuffa may have made a mistake in booking Leites for the fight, but only because hindsight is 20/20.”

WHAT? Please find me an MMA blogger worth a damn who thought this was a good matchup before the fight. PLEASE tell me that you can name one person who said, “Man, I cannot WAIT for Thales Leites to get a title shot against Anderson!” PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain to me why I’ve been reading blog entries where people tried to explain this match by saying that they were saving Anderson for later in the years and just trying to fill up the schedule.

All this bitching about Silva is ridiculous.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 20, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

EXACTLY

Seriously, what kind of idiot would follow Leites to the ground? Silva’s BJJ is great, but saying that he should have turned this into a BJJ match is stupid.

The other thing that struck me about this fight was how much improved Silva’s defensive wrestling has improved. The reason that Leites was flopping around was that he was having a hard time getting Silva to the ground – something that nobody in the past had much trouble with. What drives me crazy is that people are bitching because he improved his game. WHA?!?

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Apr 20, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn straight. So let’s see … that makes me, you, and Fagan who seem to be on this page …

by Kierkegaard on Apr 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I totally disagree. Watching Anderson fight this one, it felt like he had all the opportunity in the world to get in there and finish and he didn’t. In the fourth rd it was clear that Thales was no longer a threat and yet Anderson continued to corner Thales and stare at him, juking and jiving, and then stab his knee with that side kick. He so easily did whatever he wanted from round 3 on, and his quickness and power was so overwhelmingly obviously better that Thales, it made for watching this fight completely ridiculous. But if anything you have to blame the UFC brass for not challenging him, or at least talking to him to figure out why he seems so bored. His reasons for fighting this way I don’t hold it against him. But it’s painfully obvious that he wasn’t trying that hard. This certainly wasn’t the same Silva that completely dismantled Dan Henderson and Rich Franklin.

That said, Anderson’s skill amazes me every time. When he explodes into action I just can’t believe the power and zip on his kicks and punches. His control of his body is mindboggling.

by Dooda on Apr 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

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