The Case for Anderson Silva
Reasonable people can disagree, so I thought I'd also air Sergio Non's perspective after sharing mine:
Leites never presented another significant threat in the affair. By the fourth round he wasn't mounting any serious takedown attempts, and simply dropping to mat, as if somehow he could will Silva to come down with him.
Silva contented himself with throwing the occasional strike, particularly to Leites' left leg. The titleholder felt safe enough to start playing around with side kicks and Ali-style body movements to tempt Leites out of his survival shell, but the challenger would have none of it -- if Silva wouldn't hit the ground, the Leites had nothing else to offer.
It's hard to blame Silva for his opponent's one-dimensional approach. Why should Silva have to prove anything? He already has the title belt. No less a fighter than former light-heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell bristled at the notion that Silva was to blame for lack of aggression.
"The guy threw punches at the air and (Leites) fell to his back," said Liddell, a counterstriker himself by nature. Silva "was attacking him the whole time."
Well, except he wasn't attacking the whole time at all, but it bears repeating that Leites deserves his fair share of the blame for retreating to guard flopping time after time. And to that end: Leites has shown durability in his previous fights and expressed a willingness to push the action in the run up to the fight. Zuffa may have made a mistake in booking Leites for the fight, but only because hindsight is 20/20. He talked positively about bringing the fight to Silva given what a grand opportunity this was and his previous bouts have shown him to be a fighter historically unafraid of taking damage to win. That Thales Leites gave way to one that was risk averse to a frustrating degree and made Silva's task of merely engaging far more difficult.
I still believe Silva could've tried far harder to overcome this (and not to the degree that Silva should at all times risk life and limb to accomplish the task of fighting; I am not advocating that Silva needlessly burn brain cells for the fans' entertainment dollar now or ever), but every fight requires two to tango. Leites didn't seem keen on dancing in Silva's ballet of violence.
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Could have been better.
You know the bad part of this fight is, it wasn’t the worst fight I have ever seen (go watch some fights at the local Indian casinos in California). I would have been mad if I paid for a ticket, but overall the card was good and the main-event just wasn’t an “event”.
I never want to see these two fight again, but I can’t blame Anderson for not rushing in and losing on the ground, and Leites did the only thing he could do to win (fall on the ground and act like a girl on prom night).
Oh yea, and the one thing to remember in a “title fight”, the opponent needs to beat the champ, not the other way around, Anderson did what he need to to keep his title (as boring as that was) and Leites did nothing (let me say again “NOTHING”) to win the fight.
Lets just hope these two are never in the same building again and “hope” Henderson or Bisping beat the champ and don’t just think lying on the ground and doing nothing or for that matter standing up and doing nothing will win them the fight.
Also, I’m not so sure that after watching the last two Silva fights he wants anything to do with GSP in a “super fight”. I could see grease on grease crime with GSP ending Silva’s mystique, but maybe that’s just me.
Agree. Leites did nothing other than his one successful takedown. After gassing or his legs getting sore from kicks he did nothing but retreat and butt flop. The fight did suck, but why should Silva have to throw caution to the wind to make the fight exciting when his opponent thinks he’s in a Mundial match?
The problem is there is no one at middle weight who is a challenge for Silva. Bispeng? Please! At least I don’t see Bispeng butt flopping.
Also, that Leites fight successfully ended the whole exictement about Damian Maia!
by pwdmarcello on Apr 19, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
bisPING!
dana and the guys are afraid that okami would be boring, but i am as sure as hell that he wouldn’t be flopping around if silva fought him..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Luke...
Reasonable people can indeed disagree. I wish more people took that attitude. As an opinionated person myself, it is amazing how many people I run up against who get offended by my very own personal opinion, which I never understood.
Anyway, the Silva debacle is disheartening. Probably like most fans of MMA, I have (had?) a borderline man-crush on The Spider. I’m still working out what I think/feel about the fight. First, I would like to say that for me this is not necessarily the end of my fandom for Silva. If he turns in performances in his next few fights like we know he can, I will simply assume he was in a small slump and forgive. I don’t blame Silva for the Cote fight quite as much, since the fight ended abruptly and it was not Silva’s fault that Cote’s knee blew unexpectedly. We will never know if he might have opened up in the 3rd or subsequent rounds, and so I would probably give the benefit of the doubt to Silva based on his previous fights.
The combination of Silva being aware that Leites was out-classed badly and the (very real) danger of Leites pulling a submission out of his ass may have made Silva overly cautious. It’s worth considering that Silva may have simply decided that the UFC is sending sheep to slaughter and angled towards a win with little damage, not to himself, but to Leites. The strategy may have been adopted by Silva (his corner clearly was imploring him to engage) to minimize damage to Leites, since he clearly had nothing, and it’s not Leites’ fault the UFC can’t put forward an actual contender. Admittedly, this thought is made less probable by the fact that Silva threw those potentially brutal kicks to the knee, but I thought I’d offer the thought.
I personally am much less inclined than some on this site to roast a fighter for a bad outing. If the next fight is like this and his opponent DOES engage, then I can rethink, but just as I don’t hate my team’s QB when he throws 4 interceptions against any one defense, I won’t disown Silva for the same. The totality of his body of work have brought me much enjoyment, and I just hope that we see the Spider of old, and soon.
Luke, holla at your boy Jordan Breen.....
Ask him to post his thoughts on your article. I’m curious.
From what I remember of the “After the Bell” show, he was pretty reserved about the whole thing.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I'm listening to the pod cast as we speak....
I actually got an email from Jordan saying he doesn’t agree w/ Luke on this one. I’d like to hear some details.
silva could've tried harder to finish, and he should get criticism for that..
but leites should also be blamed because it takes two people two fight..
especially since he knows he’s down at the score cards, he should’ve made an effort to try and win the fight.. but he didn’t..
silva was more passive than his normal self.. but let us not forget who wanted to initiate the action more.. silva was tentative, but leites just did not want to win..
it takes two to tango, so the criticism should be both ways.. period.
Also, as mentioned a million times already
The UFC deserves a fraction of the blame for manufacturing ‘challenges’ for Silva that really aren’t. It must have been frustrating for Silva to throw a punch and then be swinging at air as Leites flopped, but I think if Silva had exploded with combinations and Leites had repeatedly flopped, we really wouldn’t be blaming Silva so much as Leites. Unfortunately, Silva didn’t explode. As I mentioned in my post above, I am really wondering if Silva wasn’t purposely trying to keep Leites from any kind of serious damage when he didn’t need to against an obviously out-classed opponent.
yes. the ufc also deserves a bulk of the crap thrown at silva..
maybe silva should get some of the shit on his face and throw it at dana and joe silva? haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana’s reaction to this fight is very interesting. He was ashamed of the way Silva fought. Dana’s reaction is the official ufc position. Silva was clowning and not throwing down. Maybe Silva wants to get cut.
uh ohhh.. its pwdminotauro or however you spelled that before..
i would love to see your analysis on vegans again..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC should cut Leites
This will put an exclamation mark on UFC 97 and put everyone on notice for this type of shenanigans during a title fight.
nah..
he’ll just emerge as an even bigger star outside the division seeing as he’s the only guy who went to a decision and “challenged” silva.. haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If the title is your dream, go for it. If you decide you can’t win and don’t really want it as much as you thought you did, then tell your corner you want out.
Anderson has already held the title, Thales has not, which is why I would expect Thales to be more motivated to fight.
Anderson, the way the fight was going, was going to retain the belt. That’s another reason why Thales needed to step it up late.
by bigweeze on Apr 20, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Would a point deduction by the referee have been legitimate in response to Leites “pulling guard”?
Leites was essentially NOT FIGHTING at times, which essentially puts him in the class of a Kalib Starnes.
those flopping and butt scooting reminded me of nick serra...
(i said reminded..it’s not the same, but he reminded me of him)
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 20, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Fanhouse: Yves Lavigne Stood Thales Leites Up 14 Times vs. Anderson Silva
Embedded video: Muhammad Ali vs. some sort of grappler, having the same problem as Anderson.
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/04/19/yves-lavigne-stood-thales-leites-up-14-times-vs-anderson-silva/
I don’t get this argument. Thales wasn’t fighting back or threatening so Silva decided not to fight? The man is a professional fighter in a championship fight. How is that kind of behavior in any way justifiable?
Thales’ terrible performance doesn’t justify Anderson’s terrible performance. Each man stands accountable for how awful this fight turned out.
And another thing: I’m sick of hearing Starnes/Quarry comparisons. Starnes stayed out of range for the entire fight, keeping Quarry from ever having the opportunity to engage. Silva had multiple opportunities over the span of 5 rounds and consciously chose not to capitalize.
Silva didn’t decide not to fight he just fought how he wanted to fight, if he had decided not to fight then he wouldn’t of won on the judges scorecards. Anderson Silva was in there to win the fight and defend his title not to satisfy fan expectations, he easily dominated that fight heck he could of done a lot less and still won on the judges scorecards. It was a sucky fight but Silva did way more than he needed to in order to win the fight, the only way to force him to fight harder is to put him in there with someone who is going to make him to fight harder. A professional fighter in a championship fight’s goal is to win or keep the belt not to fight how the fans think they should of fought, Anderson Silva handily won that fight.
As far as the Starnes vs Quarry comparisons that is silly. Silva vs Leites was a bad fight, Starnes vs Quarry wasn’t even a fight at all it was a game of tag.
The idea that it’s acceptable for a fighter (not to mention a champion and a top candidate for #1 pound for pound) to do the bare minimum to win a fight because his opponent isn’t threatening him is laughable.
by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The man is a professional fighter in a championship fight. How is that kind of behavior in any way justifiable?
Forget, for a moment, Anderson’s performance.
Now, compare Starnes’ and Leites’ passiveness and you might see some similarities. The action is different, yes. But the willingness to fight is nearly equal.
Thales is in the biggest fight of his life! He’s losing on the scorecards! He’s not particularly hurt! What excuse does he have for falling to the ground to avoid punches when he knows Anderson won’t follow him there? How does he throw 63 strikes to his opponent’s 148?
The difference between Starnes/Quarry and Silva/Leites is that Quarry wanted to fight and never got the opportunity whereas Silva had every opportunity and never took advantage of it.
by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
But the comparison doesn’t fit because Kalib was passive in a different way.
Kalib successfully stifled all attempts at engaging and the blame for that fight lays squarely on him.
Thales was passive but wide open to any kind of offense over and over again but Anderson decided not to pull the trigger. They are both to blame for that shitty fight.
by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Thales did everything but run. He probably would have ran except that it would have gassed him and gotten him beaten up quicker because Anderson is mobile and skilled enough to hit a moving target unlike Quarry.
Seems the best thing to do with Anderson is to stand right in front of him and not make any sudden movements.
Sports v. Entertainment
Yes, mma is a sport and a win within the rules is just that.
However, a ufc event is not like some Saturday afternoon college basketball game of Colorado State v. Wyoming. Watch it or don’t it’s up to you.
I being asked to shell out $50 for a 2.5 hour event! Let us nor forget, that is a shit load of money considering what I’m buying. I don’t pay money to watch any other sport. It damn well better be exciting.
That’s why Dana White and the UFC has every reason to be upset about this it is their job to give you your money’s worth, Anderson Silva’s job is to win fights not entertain viewers. Perhaps they should question headlining cards with Silva or even putting him on PPV at this point but it isn’t their job (or our job as fans) to tell Anderson Silva how to fight.
So keeping his employer happy isn’t part of Silva’s job as a fighter?
by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you really want Dana White telling fighters how to game plan and fight their fights? Do you want Dana White cutting fighters just because they aren’t exciting enough? Just because they run that gladiator crap at the first of events doesn’t mean these guys are fighting for Caesar’s pleasure. I’m sure this will cost Silva fans and money but that is his perogative. Lets face facts he handily won that fight, it’s not like he squeaked by that fight was never in doubt, it sucked ass but it was never even close.
Tell that to the judge who scored the fight 48-47.
by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, that has to be low on Anderson’s list of priorities. He isn’t Ed Herman or Sam Stout fighting to keep his job. The UFC isn’t cutting him loose so long as he has the belt. And even if he loses and gets cut in the future (highly unlikely) he can certainly make a bunch of money elsewhere (if he even needs to).
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
As Chuck proved the other night, everyone’s career has its limits. The question for Anderson is: does he want to end up like has-been primadonnas Arlovski and Ortiz, unable to consistently find fights outside of the organization that made him a star because he burned bridges when he thought too highly of himself?
Even a universally beloved Randy has shown that once the Zuffa bridge is burned your comeback hopes are limited to being high profile cannon fodder for the next big thing.
by George Lucas on Apr 20, 2009 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean the Andre Arlovski that just made a million dollars off one fight and has moved on to boxing or the Randy Couture who came back and wanted to fight Brock Lesnar first because it was the fight that would make him the most millions on his PPV cut? Heck even with crazy old Tito lets not act like the guys is broke and suffering or that he couldn’t go back and sign with the UFC if he wanted to because you know they would re-sign him if he would just agree to a price that actually made sense. Dana White would sign a girl scout to fight a grizzly bear if he thought he could make a buck off of it, that bridge is only burned if he doesn’t think he can still make money off of a fighter.
The Andre Arlovski who’s MMA career is at such a dead end that a career in boxing looks pretty good even though his chin can’t stand up to a stiff breeze.
The Randy Couture who came back to the UFC because they prevented him from fighting elsewhere, banned any mention of his gym at their shows, fed him to a powerhouse of a contender he had no business fighting at his age and essentially left him with one fight (Nog) before retirement.
And the Ortiz who has done absolutely nothing in mixed martial arts since being bounced out of the organization in a humiliating fight against the worst possible match up for him.
Those three burned bridges and they were some of the top moneymakers in the organization. Silva draws jack, making a burnt bridge all the more perilous to his future career prospects.
by George Lucas on Apr 21, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Luke, I gotta go against you here. You’ve still got a pretty decent batting average.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 20, 2009 3:41 AM EDT reply actions
Anderson Silva = San Antonio Spurs. They both win all the time but NOBODY wants to watch them. They have great fundamentals and Defense, but can’t put butts in seats.
I'm calling bullshit
“Leites deserves his fair share of the blame for retreating to guard flopping time after time.”
Leites deserves the LION’S SHARE of blame for NEVER ENGAGING IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.
“Zuffa may have made a mistake in booking Leites for the fight, but only because hindsight is 20/20.”
WHAT? Please find me an MMA blogger worth a damn who thought this was a good matchup before the fight. PLEASE tell me that you can name one person who said, “Man, I cannot WAIT for Thales Leites to get a title shot against Anderson!” PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain to me why I’ve been reading blog entries where people tried to explain this match by saying that they were saving Anderson for later in the years and just trying to fill up the schedule.
All this bitching about Silva is ridiculous.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Apr 20, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I still believe Silva could’ve tried far harder to overcome this (and not to the degree that Silva should at all times risk life and limb to accomplish the task of fighting; I am not advocating that Silva needlessly burn brain cells for the fans’ entertainment dollar now or ever), but every fight requires two to tango. Leites didn’t seem keen on dancing in Silva’s ballet of violence.
The problem is that nearly everyone who is so quick to criticize Silva for his “performance” in this fight is failing to indicate exactly what he should have done when Leites kept falling on his back and begging Silva to come into guard. There is absolutely NO reason for Silva to do that. So instead of going down into Leites’s guard, all he’s really left with being able to do is go over and do some leg kicks — which he did — or back off and demand Leites be stood up again — which he did — and then attempt to engage — which he did — until Leites flopped on his back again — which he did.
I’ve seen all kinds of statements about how Silva could or should have taken advantage of so many opportunities to engage and finish Leites. But nearly everytime Silva engaged enough to inflict damage, Leites tried to pull guard and flopped on his back. And nobody has yet indicated what Silva should have done differently to avoid that.
I’ll grant that there were definitely one or two times during the five rounds when I specifically remember thinking that Silva backed off where he could have gone forward. But that’s true in just about every fight between just about every two competitors. Those couple of instances do not warrant the venom being spewed in Silva’s direction for this fight.
I honestly think Leites’s tactics in the last 3 rounds of this fight were every bit as bad as what Starnes did. After this I don’t care to ever see him fight in the UFC again. Especially after the way his performance seems to be consistently overshadowed by all of the sudden Silva-haters.
by Kierkegaard on Apr 20, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
EXACTLY
Seriously, what kind of idiot would follow Leites to the ground? Silva’s BJJ is great, but saying that he should have turned this into a BJJ match is stupid.
The other thing that struck me about this fight was how much improved Silva’s defensive wrestling has improved. The reason that Leites was flopping around was that he was having a hard time getting Silva to the ground – something that nobody in the past had much trouble with. What drives me crazy is that people are bitching because he improved his game. WHA?!?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Well I totally disagree. Watching Anderson fight this one, it felt like he had all the opportunity in the world to get in there and finish and he didn’t. In the fourth rd it was clear that Thales was no longer a threat and yet Anderson continued to corner Thales and stare at him, juking and jiving, and then stab his knee with that side kick. He so easily did whatever he wanted from round 3 on, and his quickness and power was so overwhelmingly obviously better that Thales, it made for watching this fight completely ridiculous. But if anything you have to blame the UFC brass for not challenging him, or at least talking to him to figure out why he seems so bored. His reasons for fighting this way I don’t hold it against him. But it’s painfully obvious that he wasn’t trying that hard. This certainly wasn’t the same Silva that completely dismantled Dan Henderson and Rich Franklin.
That said, Anderson’s skill amazes me every time. When he explodes into action I just can’t believe the power and zip on his kicks and punches. His control of his body is mindboggling.

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