The Anderson Silva Problem
by AlwaysRelaxing on Apr 19, 2009 1:25 AM EDT
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PrintThe UFC has a problem, and his name is Anderson Silva.
During the UFC 97 telecast, Joe Rogan discussed the difference between winning a fight and being entertaining. This is the wrong line of thinking. Not all fighters will be exciting or have the ability to entertain everytime out. Rogan failed to realize that most important issue.... A fighter must be working towards ENDING THE FIGHT.
Anderson Silva has not tried to end a fight in 7 rounds of fighting. He dances. He does weird body movements. He throws the weirdest strikes. He is almost mocking his opponents. While doing all of these things, I have never gotten the sense that he is trying to end the fight.
Thales Leites or Patrick Cote aren't perfect here either. Both came into a fight looking scared. Cote was just happy to survive. Leites didn't throw a strike for 2 minutes at a time.
A logcial comparison many fans have made is to Lyoto Machida. Many have said that Silva is doing the same thing that Machida does. This is incorrect. Machida is elusive, but still works towards ending the fight. Silva is elusive, dances, and makes no attempt to work towards and ending.
Anderson Silva owes the fans more. People pay $100+ for tickets and $45+ for a PPV. A win isn't a win when Silva only comes to entertain himself and doesn't attempt to finish an opponent he obviously is superior to. Anderson Silva is without question the biggest problem to the UFC. They have a dominant champion that is boring the fans and not taking his job seriously.
As for the UFC, they need to find a fighter to fix this problem. Georges St. Pierre is not a solution. Silva beating GSP would only hurt the UFC even more. They need a Middleweight to either make Silva exciting, or beat him and take his title away. Fighters who could make for an exciting fight are Michael Bisping, Wanderlei Silva, and a Nathan Marquardt rematch. Then there is Damian Maia. There is a huge risk/reward to this fight. The risk is that it could turn out to be as boring at Silva/Leites. The reward is that Maia submits Anderson Silva and takes his belt away.
As a fan who purchases every single UFC PPV, the next Anderson Silva PPV better have a very good undercard, or I will be skipping my first PPV in over 3 years.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Sorry, I pasted this comment from the previous Post because it is more Relevant here
What should REALLY make you want to drink into a blackhole is the behavior of a so-called "Proud Champion" in Anderson Silva. We all laughed at his antics before, and enjoyed his cocky dance moves on the walkways of Pride. But this time, it was not cute. He made a mockery not only of his (poorly chosen and timid) opponent, he made a mockery of the event. For a championship fight to look like that is appalling. I forced my sister to watch the full event in order to see the works of the Anderson Silva whose signed poster is draped in my old room in my parents’ house and is, according to the American fanbase, the "best fighter in the world". Luckily she felt bad for Chuck and was happy to have seen the fight if it really was the last. Because aside from that, she, and the rest of the potential MMA fans of the future, were lucky enough to witness the most anti-climactic, aggrevating, and disheartening broadway musical that was ever dubbed a "Championship Main Event" (which held the proclaimed P4P best in the world). Disgusting.
I think a lot of what Joe Rogan said tonight made sense. It was a disappointing fight for sure but we really can’t blame either fighter more than the other. It was a bad match up and a terribly boring fight. It happens. I guess Silva could have engaged Leites in a no gi BJJ match but why? So we can bitch about that while he maybe suffers an injury?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
no he should have finished the fight instead of backing off when the ref came to pull him off (when he was throwin hammerfists)
thats the VERY least he should have done
by beersnbroads on Apr 19, 2009 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions
he INTENTIONALY dragged the fight on to make his opponent look weak and/or mock him. What a scumbag move, theres no reason for it
by beersnbroads on Apr 19, 2009 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions
He intentionally dragged the fight on?
Are you kidding me? Every time Silva came forward, after round 2, Leites fell onto his back. Why in the world would Silva follow Leites to the ground if that is clearly what Leites wanted? Lavigne should have warned Leites, and taken points throughout the fourth and fifth rounds. When Silva’s opponent is falling to his back 4 times a round, Silva doesn’t have to “drag a fight on” to make him “look weak.” There is no way that anyone can say that Silva intentionally made that a five round fight. That’s just ridiculous.
¿Quieres chiclets?
by The Mexican't on Apr 19, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Take a look again, it is somewhere around round 3 or maybe 4. Silva has Leites in either side or half guard. He is raining hammer punches, Leites is sitting there flinching and covering up like a little child, and instead of just continuing for a few more seconds as the ref was coming over to break it up, he stopped mysteriously. Explain that then.
by beersnbroads on Apr 19, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn’t true. In addition to the example beers posted, Silva had Leites dead to rights against the cage with no room to shoot or flop on multiple occasions. Thales was being passive, sure, but Anderson failed to push his advantage on multiple occasions.
by George Lucas on Apr 19, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And you sir are correct – we’re getting a lot of Silva haters out of the woodwork here
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 19, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I was an unconditional Silva fan until last night Im not a “hater”. “Haters” are losers that have nothing better to do than to badmouth fighters
by beersnbroads on Apr 19, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s fair to criticize one of the best fighters in the world when he has one of the worst performances of his career.
by George Lucas on Apr 19, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think criticizing the guy and saying he intentionally dragged out the fight are different things.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 19, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think intentionally dragging out a fight is worthy of criticism?
by George Lucas on Apr 19, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he’s saying you can’t make the inference that Silva dragged the fight on. It’s an axiom based off conjecture.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
If that’s the game we’re playing then let’s go ahead and throw out the theory that Silva didn’t engage because of Leites’ grappling ability. Mere conjecture, no?
Or what about the theory that Silva fought poorly because he was bored with his outmatched opponent and it’s really Joe Silva’s fault for even scheduling this fight? Conjecture!
Any attempt to explain Silva’s erratic behavior is going to be conjecture. That doesn’t absolve him of criticism.
by George Lucas on Apr 19, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I never thought I would see the day where people would call Lyoto Machida a finisher and not Anderson Silva. Maybe if they put him against top MWs and not Cote and Leites, these shitty fights wouldn’t happen. He fucking destroyed everyone he faced for 2 years, I say he deserves a few bad fights. At least he got the W.
What's next for Silva
He has a superfight with GSP. That is the only thing people will tune into. No one will pay for a repeat of this fight which is what Maia would bring and if it was any else in the MW division NO ONE WOULD CARE.
I have to believe that everyone in Montreal that attended this fight would buy the PPV of Silva vs. GSP not just to see GSP but with the hope of Silva getting his ass handed to him.
If the GSP bout does not work out. Move up to 205 and be done with it.
Excellent Fanpost debut
Great analysis—and fast! Agree 100%. Rec’d.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
The problem lies in the last two opponents not being much of a challenge – how can he go from finishing Franklin twice and choking out Hendo – to just hanging out in the octagon with Cote and Leites. The UFC should have had him fight Okami already.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
Okami would not drop the ground
every time Silva comes in. There isn’t a Japanese fighter on the planet who would do that. They’d get crucified at home….
very true and my point – it really makes no sense to me that Leites even showed up if that was going to be his game plan for a five round fight
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Apr 19, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep hearing this argument and it’s BS. You don’t see Fedor toying with Hong Man Choi or Zulu. A real fighter takes care of business 100% of the time, regardless of how evenly matched his opponents are.
It’s one thing to dance around and have a good time showing your opponent up, but it’s completely another to do that while ignoring your obligation to actually fight.
by George Lucas on Apr 19, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
very true and probably why Fedor was mentioned at the post fight press conference
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Apr 19, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Blaming the wrong Silva.
This fight was ill conceived and never should have happened. Joe Silva is as much to blame as anyone. If there is no compelling fight @ 185, he should be fighting @ 205 with an immediate title shot. Throwing ill equipped, and frankly scared, opponents at him does no one any good.
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
by Drewplata on Apr 19, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Spoiled fans don't know when to shut up
The Anderson Silva vs. Thales Leites is hands down the second worst fight I have ever seen. (Kalib Starnes vs Nate Quarry was way worse.) Lets take a look at Anderson for a minute here. He is 9-0 in the octagon and has FINISHED SEVEN OF THOSE FIGHTS IN THE FIRST TWO ROUNDS. He has bad luck with Cote suffering an injury. He then comes out for UFC 97 to put on a show and what happens. Leites refuses to exchange with him and drops to the mat every time anderson gets close. I agree that a fighter show go into a fight looking to finish however, Silva was trying to finish. If there is anyone to blame for the horrible fight it would be Thales Leites.
"I was not impressed by your performance"
I BLAME LEITES..
every time there was an exchange he’d flop.. and butt scoot..
You can’t blame quarry for the bad exchange during the fight with kalib because it was kalib who refuses to engage.. Leites refused to throw anything, and he would just resort to butt scoots and flopping everytime silva touches him..
and again, even in the fight game, it takes two to tango..
and leites has been talking about promising a war..
FUCK is a war for him, not throwing anything even if he was surely behind in the score cards?
people will surely give silva shit.. but i think the blame should also be squarely put on leites..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Anderson Silva fought a 5 round fight with his hands down and took no damage. I don’t think it would be possible for him to do anything more to try and get Leites to exchange with him. He did everything right and won the fight convincingly. Leites was outclassed, so don’t blame Anderson.
he was stiking his head out to bait leites in, and he wouldnt even take it.. what more could he ask for? give him a free shot?
leites was satisfied not to be KOed..
this fight really reminded me of barrera pacquiao 2.. barrera was just happy he didn’t get beat down bad and was satisfied not to take risks and lose a lopsided decision..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 19, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
All I can say to this is rewatch the fight. Anderson had multiple opportunities to capitalize on his opponent’s passivity and failed to do so.
by George Lucas on Apr 19, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree I don’t blame Quarry or Silva for the bad fight because they wanted to win. My biggest problem with Starnes and Leities is the went into the fight with a game plan but, refused to deviate from it when it wouldn’t work. If you can’t take Anderson Silva down then, try something else for god sake.
"I was not impressed by your performance"
One problem with the post is that there is this impression/assumption that Anderson was not trying to finish. I thought that he was totally trying to finish, but Leites would always fall on his back. Another thing is that people are talking about Anderson’s place in the p4p rankings, but people fail to realize that Anderson has dominated all of his opponents. Saying that Anderson owes the fans more is debatable, and it is not so cut-and-dry as the poster has stated. He is the champion, so why should he be chasing the champion? Contrarily, fans are paying money, so I understand the argument, but a fighter can’t always control how the fight will go as indicated with this fight (or Starnes vs Quarry).
I question his P4P ranking because he was scared of his guard and he had oppurtunities to finish and didn’t exploit them. If you have other champions that are finishing fights then your stock naturally should drop.
GSP didn’t finish Fitch even though he tried to finish, so his stock should drop according to your logic. Miguel Torres could not finish Mizugaki (who was also a fighter that Miguel was SUPPOSED to destroy), so his stock should drop as well. Both of these fighters more than likely “had opportunities to finish and didn’t exploit them” during their fights, so according to your logic their “stock naturally should drop.” Because he dropped Fitch multiple times, GSP had opportunities to finish Fitch on the ground but didn’t. Torres could have worked harder for the takedowns and finished Mizugaki on the ground but didn’t exploit the opportunity. To be honest, your argument is simply self-serving in that it is only logical in your own mind. I honestly just don’t see the logic in your argument considering that most champions have gone to decision, and all have “had opportunities to finish and didn’t exploit them.”
The only difference with the fitch fight and the mizugaki fight is that both fighters were not absolutely frightened of what those fighters brought to the table. I’m not against decisions here but I would say if your gonna be considered the best then you should be fighting like you aren’t scared shitless of someones guard and that you don’t have any faith in your guard passing skills or your blackbelt in bjj at all.
How in the hell did Sosznyski or whatever his name is get the submission of the night with that awful armlock and even worse jiu jitsu
it was awful ground work by both men involved Krystof’s attempts at mount were ridiculous Stann sat there and let himself get pinned and his half guard passed no one should have gotten that bonus
I hate to say this b/c I like Stann but his fight gave me a flashback of Houston Alexander
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Apr 19, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Word up
Dude wins his ninth straight UFC fight (first guy to ever do that, BTW) and all some people can talk about are the negatives.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 19, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I will never give a shit about a Leites fight again.
He showed what a coward he was tonite. If you want the belt , then quit flopping on your ass. That was a disgrace.
i was thinkin that was his game plan to get him on the ground! anderson would attack leites would fall pretendin to be hurt so he could try for submission. thats only if silva wasnt such a bitch on the ground!
by keithsardine on Apr 19, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not Andersons’ responsibility to jump into a ground war with Leites, it’s Leites’ responsibility to take him there.
by nitro on Apr 19, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
whatever im just tryin to call it how it was! i know that what he should have done but leites is a bitch aswell! but still anderson was boring as hell!
by keithsardine on Apr 19, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
To everyone saying it wasn't Silva's fault...
I agree that it was smart to not go into Thales’ guard…but am I wrong or did Silva not have several chances to bomb on him when he was up against the fence in the later rounds? And instead he just threw kicks and danced?
“A fighter must be working towards ENDING THE FIGHT”
I disagree. It’s not against the rules to work for a decision. However, I feel, as a fan, that he could have been more aggressive. I also thought that he was a bit irrational to let the fight go on and thus give Leites the possibility to pull an upset.
I won’t speculate on the reasons for him not being more aggressive; I just hope he will face a tougher opponent next. I’m a little disappointed that I didn’t get to see a classic Silva.
My italics are f’ed. “Speculate” -end italics…
by ununkvadrium on Apr 19, 2009 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
Thank you for saying it. I felt like I got robbed last night. I don’t care who Silva fights next, I’m not watching it.
This is Arlovski all over again.
When you are a champion you are the King of the Hill
It is up to the challenger to come knock you off of it. It is not the champion’s job to engage, it is the challengers.
Silva engaged, Laites flopped around to get away
Excellent Post.
You calmly summarized what I angrily complain about every week. My only issue is that I don’t understand how dancing round in front of a tomato can for 25 minutes = dominant champion? How dominant are you when your division sucks to the point that Thales Leites is the #1 contender?
Just to highlight the point made by a bunch of other people- GSP, Penn, Torres, Fedor, etc. will beat your ass standing up, on the ground, sitting down, clinched- it doesn’t matter. Silva feels he doesn’t have anything to prove, so he’s boring (e.g. Tim Sylvia)…and he doesn’t, either, as long as he keeps fighting Leiteses and Cote’s. TJ Grant and Denis Kang won middleweight fights last night- maybe they will get a title shot too.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 19, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions
I meant to reply to your comment with the statement below this.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Torres?
I don’t think GSP, Penn and definitely not Torres is going to kick Silva’s ass. It was a boring fight get over it. I understand the disappointment but lets get a hold on the emotions a bit.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
no you probly didnt drop 44 dollars on the fight for a ppv, or drive out and spend 70 for dinner at a sports bar. or drop HUNDREDS at the live event. you probly streamed it for free over some pirated site. thats why you could give two shits.
all of us who paid our hard earned money for this fight are pissed and have a right to be PISSED!
I have purchased nearly every UFC PPV for the last 4 years.
I am just able to see things more objectively than you.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
it was all bullshit!
i didn’t like how the ufc was handled in this event!!! first off andersone silva poked thales in the eye and nothing was done. second in round four i believe they stopped 10 second early. third anderson was givin thales illegal punches in the back of the head numerous times!! and fourth HOW THE FUCK DID SAM STOUT WIN? its pretty funny how right after the fight Joe Silva walked up to him and said sum shit! i think the ufc bend the rules to favor some fighters!!
Silva could have been more aggressive but thats not his style. If you want the fight on the ground take it there OR ATLEAST TRY. Falling down and hoping for Silva to jump in your guard in not a good strategy. I honestly think Leites should be docked 10% of his purse like the Pride days and I will never watch another of his fight ( thats actually probably not true because i watch every ufc but get over it im venting lol)
Silva could have been more aggressive but thats not his style.
It was his style until he decided that making a mockery his opponent and his sport was more important.
Anderson Silva is an absolute disgrace. I will never buy a UFC event featuring him again on the main event. I wish Dana would allow him to fight GSP, he would get his ass handed to him. I can’t wait till he does. He is NOT the pound for pound best. He’s a fraud! A real champion does not fight (and I use that phrase loosely) like he has lately.
Calu
During the UFC 97 telecast, Joe Rogan discussed the difference between winning a fight and being entertaining. This is the wrong line of thinking. Not all fighters will be exciting or have the ability to entertain everytime out. Rogan failed to realize that most important issue…. A fighter must be working towards ENDING THE FIGHT.
Agree completely. A fight that goes to a decision is a fight in which both fighters have failed, imo. If both Thales and Anderson were told that neither would get paid if the fight went to a decision, you could bet your bottom dollar the fight would have turned out differently. Thats the level of motivation fighters should have towards ending the fight as far as Im concerned.
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