Pouring on the Chuck Liddell Hard Sell

by Michael Rome on Apr 17, 2009 8:01 PM EDT in MMA News

Dana White may claim his comments were blown out of proportion, but the UFC is now hyping UFC 97 as potentially the last Chuck Liddell fight ever. It's probably too late, but this ad they put out is extremely effective.

I still don't know what to think of Chuck Liddell in 2009. There's an obvious argument he has declined: he lost 3 of 4, and hasn't knocked someone out since Tito in 2006. On the other hand, I'm more persuaded by the argument that all his time in the spotlight gave people the chance to figure him out, and hard hitters were able to exploit those weaknesses.

If it is more the latter than the former, then Chuck Liddell can still make another run. He can adjust his game and try to plug the holes. Nobody doubts he has the tools to win in this sport. However, if it really is his age, and his chin and reflexes really are shot, then there's not much he can do.

I've been watching Chuck fights again all week, and I don't really think he's slower on the draw now than he used to be. I just think he's fighting guys who are a lot faster on the draw and a lot more powerful. It's easy to make defensive striking mistakes and get away with it against Babalu and Tito Ortiz, not so much against Quinton Jackson and Rashad Evans.

His new camp has supposedly been focused a lot on boxing defense, and so has Shogun's. It will be interesting to see if they bring out any new tricks, or if this turns into a wild brawl within the first few minutes.

Personally, I have a hard time believing this is the last time we'll see Chuck Liddell in the octagon.

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I don’t think this is the last we see of Chuck either. I’m hoping that’s not the case. But, let’s just say if he loses, and still wants to fight I can’t see Dana letting him get away especially now Strikeforce is now emerging as a secondary promotion.

by The Bronzeville Bully on Apr 17, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions

Hype Train

I can’t see Dana letting him go, either. Must be just PPV selling hype.

by Amish on Apr 17, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions

BULLSEYE!

It’s all marketing hype to the casual fan. It gives them a sound bite that they can take and run with. This isn’t the WWF with a classic “loser leaves town match” This is the UFC taking a page out of the AWA/NWA’s playbook!

Man, I’ve dated myself by that reference!

by JAYGK95 on Apr 18, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions

After this match the UFC will give Chuck Liddell the vacant World’s Television Championship belt.

Now that’s really dating myself.

Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.

by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 18, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions

WINNER!!!

"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers

by ekc on Apr 18, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions

In The UFC of today you become obsolete very quickly if you arent constantly upping your game.

Chuck remained with Hackleman to his detriment. Training with ATT for a few months aint gonna cut it.

Couple this with his fighting style not being age friendly and you have a recipe for not being able to compete at the top level.

Shogun is a very big variable… a wild card because we have no idea how he will perform. But I believe if Chuck was fighting a consistently top 5 LHW he would lose.

If Chuck was fighting Cane I would even bet on Cane. This is only a pickem fight because Shogun has looked like shit his last 2 fights.

If Chuck loses or the fight goes to decision – I believe this will be Chucks last fight at 205.

by mmalogic on Apr 17, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions

Notice how you said not last in UFC

by The Bronzeville Bully on Apr 17, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Chuck will never fight anywhere but the UFC

by mmalogic on Apr 17, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Chuck at heavyweight?

I dunno … Dana didn’t leave a lot of loopholes, and a step up in weight is better for people dominating their weight class like Anderson Silva. How do you say, “He can’t beat 205 pounders, but our piece of sh*t heavyweight division can’t handle his striking”?

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Apr 18, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Couture couldnt cut it at 205… look what happened.

by mmalogic on Apr 18, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

By that you mean KTFO by Brock Lesnar?

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Apr 18, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Couture couldn’t cut it at 205? ’Scuse me, the man is a two-time UFC champion at 205. He beat Ortiz and Belfort for it in 2003-2004.

by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Apr 18, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it's a bit of both...

His reflexes are slowing a bit, and he’s fighting much quicker guys with heavy hands who have “figured” him out. They say the last things to go are reflexes and a man’s power, and Chuck hasn’t KO’d anyone in years, so perhaps he has lost it a bit? Either way, win or lose, we’ll see Chuck back in the Octagon.

But I’m with those who are skeptical of Chuck at this point. I don’t think this old dog can learn enough new tricks to cover his flaws from the top tier 205 guys, but I’ve been wrong plenty of times in the past. For me, seeing is believing, so I guess we’ll all find out on Saturday.

by pud333 on Apr 17, 2009 7:09 PM EDT reply actions

The “blown out of proportion” part is classic Dana. He went on OTR, looked into the camera and said if Chuck loses, he WILL retire.

by smoogy on Apr 17, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions

Dana does have a love for hyperbole. Second only to calling Tito a moron.

by pud333 on Apr 17, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions

He also said it on...

the ad that Rome links to in this article.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 17, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Chuck remained with Hackleman to his detriment.

I completely agree with all the posters here. Watching Chuck Liddell after the Rampage fight, hearing him say, “I got caught; it happens,” I was annoyed; when I heard the same exact thing from him after Evans KO’d him, I shouted at the TV: No, you didn’t just “get caught”!

I don’t think Chuck’s age has nearly as much to do with his losing streak as his style, which hasn’t evolved at all. I find it inexplicable — he seems to be the last guy to be able to see what any armchair MMA critic can see because it is as plain as day. He just wants to get in there and unload that right hand and walk thru everybody he faces just like that.

Another thing: whatever happened to Chuck’s kicks? In his earlier fights, he used them a lot. Check this out, from his bio on the UFC website, in the Q&A section:

What is your favorite technique? Right leg whip kick.

No kidding? Well, it is great technique. Forrest used it to decision Rampage and batter Evans for 2 rounds. What might have happened in the 2nd Rampage fight, if, say, for the first two rounds Chuck had focused on attacking Rampage’s legs? What might have happened if he’d done the same against Evans? He might have won either or both of those fights, and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

Chuck’s problem isn’t age or slowing reflexes, it’s arrogance — he just refuses to rethink his game.

by JR Dogman on Apr 17, 2009 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I've always suspected

he stopped kicking because of injuries. I don’t know that he CAN throw effective kicks anymore.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe you’re right. Did he throw any kicks against Jardine and Wandi? Without going back and looking at his recent kicks the only kick I remember him throwing was against Sobral when he knocked him out and that was a LONG time ago.

Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.

by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 18, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Comment worthy of fanpost; rec'd AND choi'd

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Apr 18, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions

I've always suspected he stopped kicking because of injuries.

Have you heard about any injuries in particular? If not, I think it’s just that he loves the idea of knocking people out with that right hand — unfortunately for him, the way he throws it leaves him wide open against a skilled boxer.

If there isn’t a physical reason for Liddell’s not throwing kicks regularly anymore, he should be training kicks constantly — leg kicks, liver kicks, head kicks, whatever. If he’s too injured to be throwing kicks anymore, well, then it probably is time for him to retire.

by JR Dogman on Apr 17, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions

use the reply button

it’ll make it easier to track the conversation.

I seem to remember Joe Rogan saying something about it during a fight commentary but I don’t remember any details.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions

reply button

Thanks. I didn’t even notice it.

Anyhow, I guess there’s no way of knowing one way or the other re Liddell — but hearing that stupid-sounding “I got caught, it happens” explanation, twice, like he mislaid his keys or something, was frustrating as hell.

by JR Dogman on Apr 17, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions

how could i forget

he had a horrible horrible hamstring injury.

"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Same muscle and leg that I tore.

I ripped my hamstring in half (the muscle actually rolled down my leg and just balled up behind my knee) like 9 years ago and I still limp when I run. I’m not a high level pro athlete…but that shit stays with you

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 17, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions

good god man, that sounds wicked.

by snet tim on Apr 17, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Makes me glad I’m too lazy to train. How the fuck do you repair that? Sew the muscle back together?

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 17, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Seems I dodge some crazy shits for the short time I really trained. And I train alone a lot, imagine this shit happens and you got to grab the phone in another room with your muscle down your socks XD !?

by spectaa on Apr 17, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions

holy shit how did that happen? Ive heard of tendon tears of the hamstring but tearing the actual muscle in the middle is crazy. I know it’s a derail to this thread but I’m in physical therapy school and I would like the details.

Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.

by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 18, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions

PT school. thats effing sweet. my dream was to be an orthopedic surgeon, but the MCATs kicked my ass! (let’s just say i’d rather trade places with Leites this weekend than take that exam again.)

by snet tim on Apr 18, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I’ve heard the MCATs are a BEAST. Best of luck to you if you take the MCAT again.

Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.

by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 18, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Baseball...

as many around here know me playing baseball = injuries (or getting struck by lightning trying to get off the field in a rain delay). I was a catcher for a traveling team and we went and played a team on a really poorly maintained field with overgrown grass behind home. It had just rained also adding to the slickness. There was a wild pitch and as I ran to get the ball to keep the runners on base from advancing I slipped on the high, wet grass and landed on the back of my head…my leg whipped backward well past it’s range of motion and the hamstring, being overextended just straight ripped. Like right below the butt, close to where it attaches.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/

by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 18, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions

if he loses...

i wouldn’t put it past them, to have him “retire” (i.e. take some time off). then they’ll induct him into the hall of fame at ufc100. in a year or two, they’ll give him the randy treatment and set him up with a huge comeback fight.

by woooburn on Apr 17, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions

Chuck has not evolved with the sport.

I don’t think Shogun has evolved much in the last 4 years either however, if anything he has gotten worse.

This is Chuck’s fight to lose and I don’t see him losing, but if he does I feel bad for him and I feel bad for the friendship he has with Dana cause it will be an akward conversation if he does lose.

I think the UFC will use him until he retires, regardless of how he looks in fights.

by DirtyML on Apr 17, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions

We’re going to see a better shogun, well he can’t get much worse right, but we will most importantly see a new chuck, that’s what interest me the most in this PPV (and my fellow cheick of course).

by spectaa on Apr 17, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Shogun hasn’t had the opportunity to evolve because of injury. If those injuries to his knee never happened, who knows where he’d be. I guess all we can do is speculate.

Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.

by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 18, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Anderson Silva had surgery on both of his knees and still maintains his status.

The time off is the problem not the knee surgery, and you can do low impact cardio workouts like swimming with stationary vest that dont involve your legs at all.

I think he just lost the drive.

by DirtyML on Apr 18, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Personally, I think Dana's behavior is inappropriate

I’m normally a Dana nuthugger, but in this instance, his involvement in the fight is just way over the line. He’s basically saying “Chuck must win by exciting knockout to stay in the UFC.” How is this different than the bonus to Seth Petruzelli for keeping it standing with Kimbo? UFC should be about which fighter wins, without this WWE-style promote b.s. And unlike in the fake leagues, this could petentionally affect the outcome. Rec if you agree.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Apr 18, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs

An impressive win doesn’t have to be a knockout.

He has to show that he has the physical abilities needed to remain at the top of the class.
He has to show that he has the ability to stay ahead of a class of fighter that has been able to exploit his bad habits.

He could do it by decision or KO as far as I’m concerned. If he stonewalls a game Shogun for 3 rounds, wouldn’t that be impressive? On the other hand, if Shogun looks like crap like many are expecting, then why is it too much to expect a solid KO? People expect good fighters to finish bad fighters.

Also, Dana is hyping the fight (don’t miss a big performance by Chuck) while also shaping Chuck’s future expectations in terms of pay, opponent, spot on card. The UFC does not typically give poor fights a premier spot on a card just because of a big name and is willing to move main-eventers out of the main event when they don’t deserve it anymore. Shogun is one of the lower quality fights to get high billing, but I think those were special circumstances seeing how they handed Coleman a FOTY bonus for no reason afterwards.

by bigweeze on Apr 18, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

Rec'd for good rebuttal

Definitely doesn’t have to be a knockout. Still, as someone who has money on Chuck in this fight, I’d rather he concentrate on fighting the best way to win rather than trying to impress Dana.

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Apr 18, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions