Will UFC 97 Be Over and Out for Chuck Liddell?
The pressure is on the Iceman. From Beau Dure in USA Today:
At 39, Liddell is at a crossroads. One path leads to a chance to reclaim his light heavyweight belt. Another leads to a slide down the UFC ladder, and UFC President Dana White has made that known. "I'm planning on coming out and knocking (Rua) out," Liddell says. "So hopefully that will be enough to keep (White) interested in me fighting."
...
Since (his loss to Rashad Evans), Liddell has been facing questions about his style, with fists held low to set up looping punches. "I got a little impatient. … I got in a bad position and got caught," Liddell says. "I don't think it's because I'm predictable. … You know I'm going to come and try to knock you out. But I don't think it's that simple."
Liddell has said multiple times, including during the press conference after the Evans loss, that he'll make his retirement decision in the gym, not after a fight.
"I love fighting," he says. "I get paid a lot of money to do what I love for a living. I don't think that that takes much motivation past that, but I do still want to end up on top and with the title."
Jason Bent at MMA Torch analyzes the decline:
Chuck Liddell has trained at "The Pit" under the watchful gaze of longtime trainer John Hackleman, and while everyone can and should respect his loyalty to those who have brought him to the dance it has been considered thickheaded of him not to have sought out additional coaching to better his game. The most glaring weakness that I can see is Liddell’s loss of his reflexes, and this is a natural progression as age will do this to all of us; but what this has meant for Chuck is that he can no longer get away with the sloppy defense which has been a trademark of his game for so many years. Liddell drops his hands often and at times will do so while stepping backwards, which is a recipe for disaster and what brought him defeat at the hands of Jackson at UFC 71. It has been painfully clear to all of us that this old dog seemed unwilling to learn any new tricks, and this is why recent reports of his working out with American Top Team have been both shocking and intriguing at the same time.
John Hackleman told Fighthype in December that Liddell would be training with American Top Team in an effort to round out his skills and try to take advantage of their wonderful group of guys, and this is what makes it seem possible for Chuck to return to some of his former glory. By no means can Liddell fully alter his fighting style, nor should he throw it all out and start again at this stage, but he could perhaps work on bringing back his wrestling game while shoring up his defensive skills. Liddell can make up for lost reflexes by working on technique, and perhaps after suffering such a defeat at the hands of Evans it became painfully clear to him that something needed to change. John Hackleman is from all accounts a great guy, and someone you would love to have in the foxhole with you as you prepare for battle, but I think his relationship with Liddell got a little too comfortable and as a result it became increasingly hard for Hackleman to point out the errors of his friend’s ways. That is why a change of scenery could have been the best thing for him, and any time spent with American Top Team will surely signify that we could be seeing a return to the old winning ways for Liddell while possibly seeing a new "Iceman."
I've blogged repeatedly about Chuck's training at ATT which can only be a good thing, but I remain skeptical that a 39 year old dog can learn that many new tricks.
The best thing Chuck has going for him in this fight is a huge stylistic edge over Shogun Rua. Even in his best days, without soccer kicks and head stomps, Rua doesn't have a great finishing option against Chuck. That's even IF he's able to get the Iceman to the ground.
But if Chuck's reflexes really have declined or he fights (another) dumb fight and tries to force the action and headhunt, Shogun will have more than the proverbial puncher's chance.
Dana White started all of this talk but reeled it back in at the UFC 97 press conference. From Ariel Helwani:
UFC president Dana White recently mentioned that unless Liddell looks great on Saturday night against Mauricio "Shogun" Rua, his days in the UFC may be numbered. However, at Thursday's UFC 97 press conference in Montreal, the UFC president put to rest any rumors that Liddell may have to look for a new employer sometime soon.
"I think early on, when I first made this statement publicly, it got blown out of proportion like most of my public statements," White said. "He and I sat down before this fight was made and had a long talk. Everybody knows my relationship with him, and it was basically I was saying it, you know, out of friendship. People were like, ' Oh, so you're going to kick Chuck Liddell to the curb?' Far from it. Whether he's fighting or retired, he's going to be with the UFC till I'm dead."
81 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
as much as part of me shouldn’t want to see this fight, the fact that both fighters need a win so badly definitely makes me think it could be a battle royale.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Apr 17, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions
I was pretty much thinking the same thing. The fact that these guys are no longer at the tops of their game takes away from this fight, but the fact that they both really need to win this adds to it.
Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.
by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 17, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
aw c'mon
along with Chuck’s epic war with Wanderlei this is one of the best matches to come out of the PRIDE acquisition. Its not all we hoped for at one point but I’ll take it.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Chuck is going the way of Rich Franklin
Chuck is great for the sport and a great personality in the mma world, but I feel pretty confident that he has a zero percent chance of ever seeing the LHWT belt again.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
I'd say he has a damn good chance
of getting one more title shot though.
Honestly I’ll be pulling for him here but also pulling for Shogun to put in a great showing. I think Shogun can recover from a loss and still has a bright future but Chuck, not so much.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
He got chance...but
It may be a while before he gets one. I say he is already out of the title picture this year. How many more wins do you think he needs get before he challenges for the belt? According to him, he needs to win two in a row(against Shogun, and TBD).
by The Bronzeville Bully on Apr 17, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, he might "see" the belt.
…I agree he has much more of a chance at getting another title shot because he’s Chuck, but what I mean is I don’t see him winning. I don’t think Chuck has enough left in the tank to swing with the younger guys. I mean, even if you are of the opinion that Evans and Rampage got “lucky” (I am), Chuck didn’t really put much of a hurting on them before he kissed the canvas. I just don’t see him getting back to his former self dropping bombs nukes.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Luck?
Nah, Rampage beat Chuck twice very very convincingly, as did Rashad Evans. Chuck will probably beat Shogun who has looked miserable in his last few. But Chuck is nowhere near title contention in my opinion. Sorry.
by Wolverinelot on Apr 17, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
…but I think you have a good point about Shogun having more of a future. He just needs to get on the bag or something. In his last few fights, he gassed pretty quick….which was especially bad when he was basically fighting a human punching bag (Coleman)
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Dana would probably only need one more Chuck win to justify
another title shot.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Yeah, but I would think it would be really hard to do it after one win though.
I mean, if Machida defeats Evans that would set up Machida/Page & I do not think the UFC wants to match up Chuck against either one of those two. There would clearly be no draw for that fight IMO.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Isn’t Forrest Griffin fighting someone later this year that is a potential “get back into the title picture fight” as well?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not sure about Forrest, I know he was hurt & had surgery.
I doubt he would get a shot before Chuck if Chuck can put together two wins in a row.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I found it- Thiago Silva at UFC 101 (see post below)
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
if (when) Forrest wins that one
a Griffin/Liddell #1 contender match is a no brainer.
Would also work if Shogun wins against Chuck, a Shogun/Forrest rematch would be money and would set up a good title fight as well.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 17, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea this fight opens up a lot of options for the UFC either way and I could see them pushing for a Liddell vs Jackson, Forrest vs Jackson or a Shogun vs Jackson rematch in the future too. Heck the big wrench in the works is that Machida may beat them all.
I agree with all of what you said except for
Jackson/Liddell. I do not see the UFC or Chuck wanting this fight again. 0-2 in favor of Page so why do it again?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Chuck probably wants it and it would sell PPVs. Heck if Chuck loses at this point it’s not like it would hurt his career as it’s about over anyway.
You are probably right about Chuck wanting it,
but I don’t see it being a big draw so why would the UFC do it?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Chuck vs anyone is going to be a good draw on ppv still. He’s still going to draw the casual fans and the storyline for a third fight with Jackson would be even bigger than the storyline for Jackson’s third fight with Wanderlei Silva.
To some degree I agree with that,
but Rampage/Wand III was different because Jackson is a much improved & still in his prime fighter. True, people still love Chuck but I think that a lot less people would want to pay to see him face Jackson again unless he just kills Shogun & Forrest or someone. I guess that it really hinges on how Chuck does tomorrow.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I have been and still am a huge Chuck fan & I hope he
destroys Shogun. But as far as seeing him continue to fight after I am not so sure. Look at who is at the top of his division? Evans-younger, quicker,more athletic fighter who has beat him. Rampage-younger, quicker, more athletic fighter who has beat him. And then there is Machida-who has all of the same tools the other two have but would be a nightmare matchup for Chuck. I just hope he wins so he can go out with a win.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
So if Chuck wins...
And Forrest Griffin Beats Thiago Silva at UFC 101, could we possibly see Chuck-Forrest for a title shot? (After Machida owns Evans and then defends against Rampage)
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions
That could be a possibility, because either Chuck or Forrest would be a huge draw
for whomever the current champ is at the time.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I’m getting “my” belt back.
I cant stand when fighters say this. Tito is guilty as fuck for saying this but Chuck is getting annoying as well. Hopefully Shogun shows up with his cardio in check and does some nasty Muay Thai clinch knees on his butt so he can realize its ovah…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
So when Machida beats Evans & Rashad comes out
saying that he wants his belt back you will not like it either?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
See, I was just about to add this. In this case it would be ok. The man just lost his belt. Chuck on the other hand hasn’t seen it since Rampage, Griffin and now Rashad. It’s like if Arlovski went back to the UFC and started saying I want my belt back lol.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
How would this compare to AA coming back to the UFC & saying this?
Chuck was/is the most recent & visible/dominant champ in that division & had the longest run. That is why he thinks it his belt. Is it bullshit? Of course it is, just like when anyone else says it. But one person who can claim possession of a belt would be someone who defended it longer than anyone else in the history of the UFC.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
If Machida defeats Evans then he absolutely should not be saying "my belt"
as he did not have said belt long enough to claim possession.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Why does it seem like
Frank Mir is the only person in the UFC that can sack up and say things like “Obviously I’m a little scared” or “he has better punching power than me” or “Nog is a legend and I am definately the underdog”? Instead of “i want my belt back” why not “I got my a** beat”?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions
I understand what you are trying to say,
but Mir was absolutely being extremely sarcastic with each of those comments. I do think he believes that Nog was/is a legend but I have no doubt that Mir believed he would beat him easily & definitely did not think he was an underdog. You read his “being scared” comment about Lesnar out of context, but if you heard him say it (Spike commercial interview w/Sadollah) he was talking shit like he has done for most of his career. I like Mir a lot, but he talks as much or more shit than anyone.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I agree he talks shit
maybe he was being sarcastic, but he seems to be much more humble and realistic that the rest of the crowd. I find that a lot of the older guys are, though. It’s usually the younger guys with relatively little experience that come in and are like “yeah, my bjj is better. My striking is better. I might beat his ass standing up, or I might take it to the ground and dominate him there. I haven’t decided yet. My opponent sucks.”
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
That is probably true for the younger guys because they are trying to build their name
up & Mir does not have to do that any longer. Make no mistake, Mir has a massive ego just like the majority of the top guys do.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
The man has had 2 major knee surgeries for god’s sakes. Shogun is only human; he doesn’t have some kind of wolverine healing factor!
What on earth are you talking about?
This whole post is about Chuck, not Shogun (who probably would have already healed if he was still juicing.)
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
“I think early on, when I first made this statement publicly, it got blown out of proportion like most of my public statements,”
I love it. “When I said what I said, I think people took it to mean that I meant what I said.”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 17, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"You morons keep actually listening to what I am saying & taking
the words to mean what I meant! What the fuck jackasses?" White lol
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Oh, so you’re going to kick Chuck Liddell to the curb?’ Far from it. Whether he’s fighting or retired, he’s going to be with the UFC till I’m dead
So if Chuck loses is Dana going to give him a desk job? Maybe a variety show with Mark Coleman? What is Chuck going to do for the UFC if he’s retired?
Free cageside seats for life?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Maybe, lol.
Chuck seemed to do a good job of that already!
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Thats another reason I want Shogun to win. Just to see what happens with Chuck.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Good reason!
I find it amusing how some people can have so much hatred for any person that they do not personally know! lol
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
why do you have to personally know someone to hate them?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You should be able to separate yourself from a fighter that you may not care for
to not constantly wish bad things for them. I understand that most fans are not capable of this, but it is still disappointing. For me, I can appreciate someone for their talent or achievements even if I am not a fan of theirs. Just me though.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
there is a difference
between saying….just for example….“I want Anderson Silva to lose evey fight he has from now until he retires” and saying “I hope Anderson Silva breaks his leg”. I doubt most people in New York know any of the Red Sox personally, either.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Your New York-Boston reference is the perfect example of this retarded ass behavior.
Fans should have enough respect for their sport to recognize talented people & cheer for their respective teams/fighters without being ridiculous (like posting 100 times a day how much you hate A Silva) & over the top about their dislike.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
That is the first thing I've said about him all day...
…and I said it jokingly b/c it was it was so expected. All i’m saying is that what makes sports fun is to have rivals. You have fanatical devotion to some teams/fighters (Redskins,Silva, Fedor) and you can have completely unfair hatred for some teams/fighters (Patriots, Silva, Evans). As a result, watching fighters you hate becomes just as much fun as watching fighter you love because you want to see them lose just as much as you want to see your guy win. Which is what I was trying to say earlier- saying “I hope he gets crushed” is not the same thing as saying “I hope a sniper drops him on the way to the cage”.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, I know but I was just laughing about earlier this week.
Some people do have that kind of fandom & it is great for you to be all for your team/fighter, but to go so far as to always disparaging the competitor is a little childish. The Yanks/Sox reference is perfect because these morons have no idea why they dislike each other, just that they think they are supposed to.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
haha...sooo true.
but if they didn’t hate each other, it would be just another baseball game. Just like if I didn’t hate Silva, this would be just another fight. I would probably watch Liddell-Rua, close my tab and beat the traffic home.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said I hated him?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No one.
It is normal to openly root for a fighter to lose, just to see whether or not he retires.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I dont want Chuck to retire. I want Chuck to get in a spat with Dana and UFC so he can go to Strikeforce and give them some more star power. :) He’d have a better chance at getting the SF LHW title than the UFC now. Anyway, I don’t hate him.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going to ask about chuck and affliction, but they will probably tank. Any chance they will fold into strikeforce?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope so although I did love both Affliction shows.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Chuck makes 1-3 million per fight. Strikeforce simply can’t put together a deal that Chuck would take.
Worst case, Chuck fights an occasional special bout and no longer regularly competes.
I don’t think training with ATT is going to make Chuck a new fighter, I do think it may get him using tools, he already has, a little more often. The Wandy fight saw him using more kicks and even some takedowns. That is exactly what he needs to do, use kicks to soften up Shogun.
Who me is correct.
Dana has already said Chuck will always have a job with the UFC. When he does retire, I am sure he was do P.R. work for them. Hell, maybe even take a front office job. Dude has his accounting degree.
Wasn't there an article on here a while back on nerds in mma?
I would love to see a pic of Chuck Liddell sitting in a business school surrounded by accounting majors studying for an Accounting 202 exam.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I can just imagine Chuck at his new desk job at Zuffa doing basic accounting work for 1 million a year, Mark Coleman could be his secretary and they could write memo’s back and forth about the good old days.
I am not suggesting he do accounting, I am simply pointing out he could handle a front office job and that he has an actual degree of note, not a physical therapy degree.
Chuck will never fight anywhere but the UFC ever again, period.
There is no way Dana will allow that to happen.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Yeah I guess your right. Stranger things have happened though. Who woulda thought the Lakers, after winning 3 rings with Shaq would let him go?
And who woulda thought Hulk Hogan ( a WWE Legend) would go to WcW and become Hollywood Hogan? Huh? Huh-huh-huh?!! :P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but the NBA is constantly being revitalized with new/young
superstars & the Lakers had Kobe to fall back on.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Dana won’t allow it? Contracts expire, and if Chuck wants to fight badly enough and Dana won’t let him do it in the UFC, how is Dana going to stop it? Now I’m not saying I think it’s likely, but it’s not flat-out impossible either.
No. Dana will not allow it.
If Chuck still wants to fight it will be in the UFC or no where.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Dude, you’re doing so much assuming and jumping to conclusions it’s not even funny. It reminds me of some arguments with my wife. Putting words in my mouth etc.
Wanting Chuck to lose could mean anything. It might mean you like his opponent just a little more, or you’re curious about the intrigue it would create politically between he and Dana White. Most Red Sox fans don’t actually hate Yankees, they just get off on the illusion of rivalries. It gets the blood going.
I just think that Hate is kind of a strong word to bandy about when all it is rooting for someone to lose. It’s sports for goodness sake.
Chuck's problem is that he doesn't adapt
“…but what this has meant for Chuck is that he can no longer get away with the sloppy defense which has been a trademark of his game for so many years”
Let me translate: Chuck likes to block with his face. He takes a lot of shots, and it seems striking in mma has improved during his career. That eventually catches up to you. Additionally, as with any concussion, once you get KO’d, it becomes easier to get KO’d again.
Increased risk of concussion + blocking with face = Chuck face down on mat.
(however: Shogun – Cardio < Chuck showing up to the arena tomorrow)
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 17, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions
I am not a Lidell hater but.....
I absolutely love that photo of Chuck taking an Insta-Nap on the canvas.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Chucks not sleeping there, look again he’s carefully cleaning the canvas with a toothbrush. Its just a bad angle.
:P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 17, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been looking forward to a fight between these two for a very long time.
I was salivating at the thought of these two fighting when Pride was aquired. A couple years ago, Chuck woulda won this fight. Today? Chuck still wins this fight, despite his aging and downturn in his game. On one hand, I want Chuck to go out on top, to regain his former glory and make one final run, cause if his career ends in a whimper, that picture of him sleeping on the canvas is gonna be haunting him forever. On the other hand, I want Shogun to return and have his time in the UFC, because a part of me feels Chuck had his time. It’s close, but I still think I’m hoping for a Shogun win.
I think that a Shogun win has greater upside. His style, when he’s in shape is hella entertaining, he’s young, and there’s interesting fights with Rashad and Machida and then a Page re-match.
If Chuck wins, it means a little more blood money for Dana to squeeze out of him, but as for long term excitement, let’s face it, Chuck isn’t going to be beating Rashad or Machida or Rampage any time soon. I’d like Shogun to win because I think that he has legit reasons for not being in great shape his last two fights. I’d like to see him pull out a good win here, continue to get in better shape and become the elite fighter that he has potential to be with well-rounded training etc.
Bottom line though, it needs to be exciting. If Shogun wins like he did on Coleman, everyone loses. If he loses but he shows excitement etc, then it’s a different story.

by 






















