Report: Sherdog in Trouble Again
Promoted to the front page from the FanPosts by Luke Thomas.
According to MMAPayout, there has been a lawsuit filed in regards to some journalistic practices involving an article by Jason Probst, a source of that article, and of course, Loretta Hunt is somehow involved:
The genesis of the suit between Maysey and Hall/Crave originated over an article that appeared on Sherdog titled Putting a Price on Fame by Jason Probst. The situation began when Maysey authored an article on the UFC merchandising agreement that appeared on his MMAFA blog. Editor for Sherdog Loretta Hunt received a copy of the article and actively engaged Maysey to work with Sherdog on a similar merchandising article. Maysey would further go on to write portions of the article and edit the final piece, according to his suit. Hunt also made promises that Maysey would be called as a source for the article.
Just prior to publishing Maysey argued that his article was posted first and made public first, but was not cited as the original source in Sherdog’s article. Hunt argued that he was not a "media outlet" and thus, citation was not necessary. Maysey submitted correspondence and other documents to the ESPN.com ombudsman in regards to improper citation in the Probst Article. Joe Hall of Sherdog submitted a reply to ESPN’s inquiry regarding improper citation. Hall’s email to ESPN makes no mention of "media outlet." Maysey’s suit allges Hall’s email accuses Maysey of criminal activity, and otherwise grossly misrepresents the facts surrounding his contributions to the Probst Article. Maysey also argues Hall’s reply to ESPN attacked the professional and personal integrity of Plaintiff, and blatantly misrepresented facts throughout.
This is somewhat a rising issue with blogs, the MMA media, and other sources of news in the world of MMA. It's also an everyday thing within the news media. Citing sources just like citing this article by MMAPayout are essential to avoiding legal hassles, and of course, giving credit where credit is due.
According to the lawsuit, the argument was that Maysey wasn't a media outlet, so a citation wasn't necessary. Any legal eagles want to decipher that? Citation necessary or not, I still think Sherdog should have cited Maysey's article. He did, after all, do the legwork.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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I don’t see how his being an official media outlet effects the work he clearly did. He’s probably got a pretty good case.
I poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Apr 16, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s what I feel. According to Zach Arnold at FO, Maysey is a damn good lawyer too, so he likely wouldn’t file something he didn’t think he’d win.
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by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for posting this
I really want to hear what folks like bobthewriter and Ozzz think about this. I’m really out of my league here.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 16, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s also pretty perfect timing considering what Dana had to say on TSN.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 16, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same here...
I want to hear what some of the legal eagles have to say, that was the basic point of posting it. It isn’t overwhelming news by any means, but it’s certainly interesting enough for discussion.
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by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, i wouldn't really know anything about this..
oh leland, maybe you could add this to your post to make it even prettier. :)
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 16, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Maysey can prove they used original content and he has the digital trail to prove it, he should have a fairly clear cut case. Plagiarism should not be that hard to prove. Sherdog would be best to apologize, give credit where its due and move on. Then if the case goes to court, damages will have been minimized.
by No Shit MMA on Apr 16, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
well, i think my stance on sources is pretty clear … but this would appear different. i haven’t yet read the lawsuit or the full story on this, yet (but i will). my initial reaction to this is that it certainly could be construed as similar to what Rick Bragg was accused of doing at the NY Times by using stringers or assistants to do the bulk of the work on a story, then refusing to acknowledge their efforts with a byline or as a contributor.
From wikipedia: On May 29, 2003, after being given a two-week suspension for writing a story that primarily used the research of a stringer, 3 Bragg resigned in protest from the Times4. The story which sparked the controversy was a story Bragg wrote about Florida Gulf Coast oystermen. He wrote a narrative first person story of how he experienced oystermen culture. Bragg spent one day in Apalachicola and used the research and interviews of a stringer who was working with him.
This incident caused the NY Times to rethink its policy on bylines and use of stringers, and on the surface it sounds similar to what Sherdog is accused of doing here.
I’ll post more when I’ve had time to read the original article.
by bobthewriter on Apr 16, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you'll note ...
that i credited wiki as my source on Rick Bragg. lol
by bobthewriter on Apr 16, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whenever i forget what fighter faught who or when i just type there name and put wiki at the end of it in google
by Rensokuken on Apr 16, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Bragg
The Bragg incident was embarassing to the Times because it broke the trust with the reader, who assumed that Bragg was responsible for work under his byline. There was no lawsuit, and no legal issues at play.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Apr 16, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like that if Maysey didn’t contribute enough to the article to get a byline or at least a link, he was at least a source for the story, and wasn’t credited as that either.
Sherdog does little shit like this all the time that makes their stuff look like amateur hour. The same way the bottom of every fanpost here says, “The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.” Sherdog really needs to start tacking shit like that on the bottom of most of their posts. That’s where you can give other people who helped in the article credit. That’s where you make sure everyone knows that it’s an opinion piece. That’s where you do this shit. It’s almost like no one at that website ever took a journalism class.
That might have been ok when the site just started up, but these are small things that would go a long way to a) cover their asses in spots like this, and b) make them look like they have a clue.
by Phildo on Apr 16, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was always a personal favorite...
when someone who hates the site would link to a fanpost written by an idiot going "Look what kind of stuff their writers put up:
i like bock lenar cause he is a big wrestlerman
"
That bugged me more than just wanting to distance ourselves legally. Just people thinking that the worst stuff written in the fanposts was somehow written by us.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 16, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherdog puts themselves in this position (only 1,000,000x worse) by linking to those forum posts on their front page. Then Savage and Sherwood go on their radio show and gripe about how fighters call them up going “how could you say this about me on your front page??”… before explaining they won’t take them off the front page because they generate so many hits (and presumably ad $).
by Chris Nelson on Apr 16, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure your disclaimers protect you in the slightest. Maybe I should go back into the law and sue blogs just to see what happens!
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 16, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're not talking about legal liability
we’re talking about the average reader understanding the dfference between a fanpost and a front page post, two different things.
And for your benefit, the legal precedent on responsibility for third party postings on web sites is pretty clear too — and site owners are generally not held responsible.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
by Kid Nate on Apr 16, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“wanting to distance ourselves legally.”
I don’t think thir party postings on websites is settled law at all.
“Maybe you should, then I wouldn’t need to hear how Koscheck is on the decline”
zzzzzzzzzz. Nothing says on the rise like losing 2 of 3.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 16, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because, clearly, there is nothing between rising and declining.
by subo on Apr 16, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Losing two of three is certainly not standing still! This is supposing my premise was that Koscheck had reached a point he was in decline. My entire article was based on the idea that Kos still has plenty left!
“LOL, I was just trying to get a good hearted rise outta you.”
LOL. I know! I’m happy to play my role..;)
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 16, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, I was just trying to get a good hearted rise outta you.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kid Nate is correct, with proviso
Media sites are not responsible for comments (or, I supposed, FanPosts) PROVIDED they are not in the habit of editing or deleting posts. If the site exerts editorial control—if you delete certain posts—then that DOES make you responsible for comments. For this reason, many sites prefer to not edit or select comments at all, because it opens the door (i.e. “You deleted that post by joeblow about Chuck Liddell, but you didn’t delete the post that libeled me, so you made an editorial decision.”)
I would caution that BE does selectively delete and edit Fanposts, and therefore could be held legally responsible for the content therein.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Apr 16, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is NOT settled law. I would be happy taking a case where the editor of the site not only responds to the defamatory post, but in many cases even ’RECS it.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 16, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jonathan is correct
Not settled law. And he is also right to warn about commenting and REC’ing a post, as that establishes that you not only read the post but approved of its content, which shows editorial judgment and therefore liability.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Apr 16, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you should, then I wouldn’t need to hear how Koscheck is on the decline… I keed I keed
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"and of course, Loretta Hunt is somehow involved"
Other than the article she wrote that resulted in the Dana White vlog controversy, was Loretta Hunt involved with any other questionable stories she’s written?
Just asking…
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by funnytiger on Apr 16, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure she was, but I added that because it basically came down to what she said as being somewhat the basis for the story. She said that he wasn’t a “media outlet” and therefore doesn’t need to be sourced.
I was hoping someone had elaboration on this comment. Is that a typical thing within the media? You have to be a media outlet in order to be sourced? I wouldn’t think it is.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big fan of Maysey
but at best it’s just shitty to not source him. At worst he has a legitimate case. Sherdog looks pretty awful here. How the fuck hard is it to just give a little cred?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 16, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s my thing… a little link to the original story or a mention of Maysey. Is that so hard?
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by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the crux
It would’ve taken a simple acknowledgment to dodge this. Stupid and sloppy,
by subo on Apr 16, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loretta
It matters not whether someone is a “media outlet” or not—indeed, journalists are not licensed and have no extra rights under the Constitution than any other American.
That said, Loretta’s behavior in this instance seems unprofessional, even if not legally actionable.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Apr 16, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no lawyer...
but I’ve always been under the impression that if you are in any way using another person’s work you should give credit. That goes for verbatim quotes, paraphrasing, or even just borrowing an original idea.
That’s just as a student though. I have no idea what the rules are for journalism.
by Andy R on Apr 16, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder why Maysey would even care enough to take this to court.
by GeeDub on Apr 16, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s a spotlight seeker. He has a pretty reasonable case…but he is absolutely a spotlight hunter
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 16, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely!
That is why this is just now coming out, 5 months later.
You think it might have nothing to do with the correspondence submitted to ESPN?
by Rob Maysey on Apr 16, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please Note as well
Sherdog’s article was dated July 10, 2008.
It is, today, April 16 (I think).
Again, nothing to do with the correspondence you think?
by Rob Maysey on Apr 16, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does you not being a ‘media outlet’ disqualify you as a ‘source’?
by subo on Apr 16, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No clue
Joe Hall said he wasn’t sure what a media outlet was. I haven’t found anyone who said that was a legitimate explanation—not a single media person.
by Rob Maysey on Apr 16, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was the answer I was looking for, although I’d love to hear from anybody else on the “in and in” on this subject.
Follow my analysis of all things MMA on BloodyElbow.com
by Leland Roling on Apr 16, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's not a legit explanation...
you’re right on this one.
I still think you like the spotlight though ;)
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 16, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How are they defining “media outlet”? It sounds like they are claiming they only have to credit companies/organizations not individuals and that is just silly. Loretta Hunt is putting that degree in Drama to real good use here.
a publication or broadcast organization
by who me on Apr 16, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about the merits of this specific case, but my question in general for the Sherdog defenders on this board is: How many times does Sherdog have to be in the middle of a controversy regarding their journalistic or business practices before you acknowledge that maybe there’s something questionable about the way they conduct themselves?
by andherewego on Apr 16, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fair Enough
Sometimes Brent—fair enough. The vast majority though—no. I have done many, many things that have never seen the light of day—intentionally. Many things that I have allowed other people to take credit for as well. Sometimes though—sure—but usually I’d prefer it for the site.
by Rob Maysey on Apr 16, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And you know what...
I sounded like a dick with the spotlight thing but after a rocky start with Rob (mainly over the Ali Act which we’ll never see eye to eye on) he is a good guy. One of the few that takes the time to actually e-mail and discuss positions rather than just attack. So my bad on sounding like a jerk.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 16, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Brent
No problem. We won’t agree on everything—that’s ok.
by Rob Maysey on Apr 17, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'll get tossed out of court
As a member of the media (in my non-BE life) I think this will get tossed. News organizations copy/match each other all the time with or without citation, and when it’s done it is a courtesy rather than for legal reasons. I know of no case that has found “improper citation” to be actionable, and any finding of such would be highly at odds with the 1st amendment and would surely get overturned on appeal.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Apr 16, 2009 7:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Case isn't about citation
It is about the correspondence that was sent to ESPN.
by Rob Maysey on Apr 16, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of curiosity...
Is that correspondence viewable anywhere online? Did the ombudsman ever address it on ESPN.com?
by Chris Nelson on Apr 16, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good question
Not that I am aware in regards to the correspondence being published.
ESPN took the position that it was a Sherdog issue, not ESPN, because it was a Sherdog bannered article.
by Rob Maysey on Apr 16, 2009 10:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Case is Where?
In what state/district court was this lawsuit filed?
by GEM on Apr 17, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Correspondence
The correspondence should be attached to the complaint, which should be a public record and available in the court in which it was filed.
by GEM on Apr 17, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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