Anderson Silva Spoils MMA Fans
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 15, 2009 11:56 AM EDT
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Promoted from the FanPosts by Kid Nate.
Kevin Iole gives the perfect example:
Silva, whom [UFC President Dana] White insists is the world’s pound-for-pound best fighter, said he wants to be remembered in all-time terms. To do that, he’s going to have to get back to his old devastating self. He became No. 1 in the Yahoo! Sports poll of the world’s best fighters in January 2008 and held the top spot alone for 13 months. He’s been tied with Fedor Emelianenko over the last three months.
The problem with that is that Silva has set such a high standard in his wins over foes such as Rich Franklin, Chris Leben and James Irvin, that anything less seems substandard. Boxing fans wouldn’t have been content with Mike Tyson as a counter puncher and defensive wizard and MMA fans aren’t going to be satisfied with an overly cautious Silva.
Fedor showed a chink in his armor in his last fight against Andrei Arlovski; he was losing the fight until a well timed counter ended Andrei's night. Anderson, on the other hand, was never touched and was in total control in his fight against Patrick Cote. The only difference was that we didn't see a highlight reel KO finish due to Cote's knee giving out.
Fedor showed weakness and Silva had an anti-climatic, yet dominant win over Cote. But somehow, Fedor rose in the rankings of MMA fans and experts, while Silva's votes went down a bit. Fedor gets praise, while Silva gets tons of undeserved criticism.
Anderson Silva has spoiled MMA fans, so much so that anything other than a first round highlight reel finish would be disappointing.
Iole on the other hand, thinks those criticism could be used as extra fuel to Silva's fire:
A motivated Silva is usually a very dangerous Silva. Try as he might to downplay, he was clearly stung by the criticism he received after his win over Cote. And, as White said, someone is going to pay.
The very reason that so many speak of Silva as the best fighter in the world is because he is able to impose his will and essentially script the fights.
Somehow, I get the impression that the script for this one is going to seem like a horror show to Leites.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Wow.
I appriciate that this is the widely held perspective. I read this:
“Silva, whom *(Dana) White* insists is the world’s pound-for-pound best fighter…”
Again…the hype machine. Silva is an awesome fighter, but if Silva didn’t fight for the UFC, Dana (an most everyone else) wouldn’t say that. I mean, until Faber got dropped by Brown, you could have made the same arguement for him. He dominated all his opponents- destroyed them. He might have even been better “p4p” because he had fewer pounds to spread the talent over. But no…nobody made the arguement for him. So why is Silva different other than he’s Dana’s poster boy?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
I agree somewhat. Silva has just been overhyped for far too long. Just like Fedor.
by Wookalarman on Apr 15, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to hear evidence that either are overhyped
The only problem of saying that Anderson Silva or Fedor is “overhyped for far too long” is that they have been beating all of the competition put in front of them in convincing fashion. The critics tend to find some sort of sloppy performance, a loss that is more-or-less irrelevant now from earlier in their careers, claim that so-and-so fighter can beat one of these two, or criticize their competition and downplaying their competition. However, all of these criticisms have their flaws, and I have yet to find strong evidence that proves otherwise. It seems like the people that feel that Anderson or Fedor are not as good as they are made out to be or are overhyped are people that want to bring them down and take them off the pedestal. It is not that they are not as good as the hype, but it just seems like this need to bring them down because they are so good.
you are lumping the two of them together, though. Using the two in the same sentance is like saying “Well both the University of Florida (BCS) and the University of Richmond (1-AA) beat every opponent put in front of them and won the national championship.” Not really the same thing.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor has fought a whole lot of bums – people that couldn’t hope to be considered the Patrick Cote or Thales Leites of the HW division. You hate Anderson Silva because he dances after he wins – that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s overrated or hasn’t beaten more great MWs than anyone else.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 15, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"You hate Anderson Silva because he dances after he wins"
This is actually true for P4P. Strange, but apparently this is the real underlying factor for his Silva hate.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I lumped them together for a reason
I am lumping them together because they are the #1 and #2 consensus p4p fighters. Also, I was responding to Wookalarman who said that BOTH are overhyped. For one thing, there are similar criticisms against both fighters such as their questionable opponents in the past. Many critics DO downplay their opposition such as saying that Rich Franklin isn’t even that good or that Tim Sylvia can’t beat top competition. The point is that there are many similarities as far as criticisms against the two that are comparable.
Not like Fedor.
There are two main differences between Silva and Fedor:
1. Fedor has not lost a fight in his entire career.
2. Fedor has fought and beaten almost all of the big names in MMA from the last 10 years. Silva has only fought 2 big names.
To compare them is comparing apples to oranges. My biggest knock on Fedor is that he has had a lot of crap-fights. That does not take away from the fact he has also had a lot of big time fights, too. Silva has also had a lot of crap-fights.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
Henderson, Franklin x2, Marquardt, Newton, Sakurai
Arlovski, Sylvia, Nogueira x2, Filipovic, Herring
Looks like a pretty similar list to me.
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I have been going round & round w/P4P on this subject
on a couple of different posts. What he ultimately comes up with is that he hates Silva for dancing/showboating & ultimately concedes that he is great.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I'm actually glad this column comes from Kevin Iole
…as he is a well documented UFC marketing mercenary.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions
So I guess fighters can't improve
based on what you’re saying Fedor’s the best because of what he has done in the past. Where I stand is the A. Silva of right now is a more technically sound fighter then Fedor. A. Silva has cleaned his division, there aren’t many more 185’s that can stand with him, and time will tell if he is truly the best when he fights the rest of whats left in the ufc.
Who would Silva have to fight and beat for you to consider him the best, lets play that game.
another way of looking at it:
“Fedor showed weakness and Silva had an anti-climatic, yet dominant win over Cote. But somehow, MMA fans/experts made Fedor rose up the rankings and Silva’s votes went down a bit.”
Fedor KO’d a top ten HW. Silva didn’t show much against a mediocre MW.
But the fight ended abruptly.
To say Silva didn’t show much isn’t really fair considering the way the fight ended.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Yes it is.
He had 2 rounds and 39 seconds to show off. Considering the wide talent gap between Cote and Silva, that should have been more than enough time to end it or at least show us something.
To skyjo’s point, Fedor floored a heavyweight top 10, future HOF, and former champ (i.e. far more challenging than Cote’) in 3 minutes, 14 seconds.
That is why Fedor finally got the credit he deserves, and Silva “went down a bit”. That is about as fair and straight forward as it gets.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor should have been #1 the whole time.
by GroundNPound561 on Apr 15, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This was mentioned in the main post above. Silva was barely touched over 2+ rounds. Fedor was on the receiving end of a number of blows before he landed one big one.
The difference between the two (aside from the many early finishes is that Fedor puts his head down and goes full steam ahead, while Silva is able to change his pace. Silva could do the same, but it is a strategically poor decision for someone with his skillset and physical stature. Fedor is undersized, and uses his speed/explosiveness to put an end to fights quickly (as he should) because fighting larger opponents timidly is not a good idea. Also, his standup skills are not suited to counter-fighting as he tends to throw arcing rather than straight punches.
So essentially you want Anderson to fight riskily instead of simply dominating the scorecards. Why does that make him a better fighter in your eyes? You can’t just assume that Cote doesn’t land a bomb in the first couple rounds with that strategy.
I agree with what you’re saying about Silva, but you’re dead wrong about Fedor. Yeah, he blasted Arlovski and Timmay out quickly, but he can also fight patiently and counterstrike, he can fight with a steady high pace, he can basically fight whatever way is necessary for the current contest.
Fedor isn’t incapable of fighting in other styles, but it just doesn’t suit him as well as risk-taking does given his abilities and size. Slowing a fight down, being passive and staying outside (making his size/striking technique an issue) are not in his best interests given that a high pressure style plays to his strengths to a great degree.
I always think of Fedor as being similar to Mike Tyson. Not the same, but someone whose chances of winning are highest early in a fight, and generally lower later on in fights.
Of course, he hasn’t had a suitable matchup that could test this theory for me.. But I think if someone with an effective style can figure him out and “get over the hump” without gassing in r1, the chances of winning are pretty solid.
I love how people say “Fedor showed weakness” or that we saw “Chinks in his armour”. He beat Andre at his own game and knocked him out cold in 3 minutes, yet somehow people pull negatives out of that?!? I mean, do people think less of Torres after the Mizugaki fight? Many people there had mizugaki winning the first 2 rounds.
In Fedor v AA, the fight was pretty even until Andres little foray forward which looked more impressive due to Fedors flailing, but defensive, arms than it actually was. So it was really 20 seconds that Andre was ahead. Not very impressive, nor relevant really.
And to those suggesting Fedor comes out like a bull out of a gate is just plain false. Have people actually watched his fights. I mean, against Timmy, he sat back initially and let Timmy throw a punch or 2 before he connected with his first shot and took advantage of it and against AA, many were accusing him of looking lethargic, hardly a bull outta the gate description.
And to the poster suggesting you have a good chance at beating Fedor if you can ‘get over the hump’, I think prime crocop and prime Nog would argue differently.
As for p4p. Its simple really. Fedor is Anderson but 2 years more advanced. The way Anderson is dominating now is the way Fedor was dominating Pride. The difference, obviously, is that Fedor has carried on and is still beating top guys and still hasnt dropped a fight. If Anderson is still kicking ass and hasnt lost by 2011, then the p4p discussion is alive. But right now, its a no brainer. Oh, and add to that the fact that Fedor is an undersized HW and Anderson is an huge MW and I see no argument for Anderson as the p4p best. Fedor > Torres > Anderson > GSP
by GeeDub on Apr 16, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you guys are missing the point..
i dont think either fighter deserves any criticism.. the whole point of the article is that silva doesn’t deserve the criticisms he got.. And it just shows how spoiled fans get that anything short of a flashy KO would be disappointing..
just because everyone thinks fedor and silva should beat their opponent in the first minute, and it didn’t happen, that doesn’t mean they deserve the crap people give..
and about the chinks in the armor thing, my point was, if any of the two was to be criticized more, it should’ve been fedor, not silva, because at some point in the fight, fedor was losing.. BUT again, they both won convincingly, so i dont think either deserves shit..
people have been taking it the wrong way thinking that im bashing fedor or something, but that really wasn’t the whole point of the article..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 16, 2009 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you. I dont think there are too many negatives for either fighter in the their most recent performances. The main difference between the 2 are that there was a huge positive for Fedor by way of the KO but for Anderson there were no real positives, just an empty feeling. People have to talk and with nothing positive to say about Anderson, the talk was of confusion as to why he was dancing around the place.
My Fedor comments were a bit of bottled up tension having read so much about how Fedor was losing that fight and how it somehow ‘proves’ something. Those kinda opinions bug me coz Fedor never appeared to be in any trouble but has been in loads of trouble before in other fights. If a 3min KO, the 2nd of his entire career, against a guy who supposedly has some of the best boxing in MMA draws criticism….well……whats a fighter to do?!?!
I popped in to echo what Beer Monster just said. THE POSTER IS RIDICULOUSLY COOL. Who says aqua & pastel yellow can’t be scary? Slap the spider & web on every UFC poster he’s on from now on!!
Moneyline for Silva
Silva is sitting at 625 right now for this fight (Leites is +425). This is rediculous. Watching this fight is going to be like watching the first round of the NCAA basketball tournament the only reason to watch at all is to see some highlights and to say you were watching just in case it is that one-in-a-bazillion upset.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
“Fedor showed a chink in his armor in his last fight against Andrei Arlovski; he was losing the fight until a well timed counter ended Andrei’s night”
LOL losing the fight? How about losing the first half of the first round in a 5 round title fight…sounds a bit different doesnt it?
"I'm ready. It doesn't matter with who or where. On foot or on horseback. With maces or poleaxes. To fight. To first blood or to death. It doesn't matter, I'm ready to fight." -- Александр Емельяненко
I love Fedor, but you can spin it however you want.
He was losing that fight.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Like I said, he was losing the first half of the first round. Did you forget he won the fight by first round KO against a guy coached by Freddie Roach? FIRST ROUND KO! Hardly a chink.
"I'm ready. It doesn't matter with who or where. On foot or on horseback. With maces or poleaxes. To fight. To first blood or to death. It doesn't matter, I'm ready to fight." -- Александр Емельяненко
I am not taking anything away from Fedor.
He absolutely capitalized on a huge mistake by AA, but he was losing that fight dude.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Who gives a shit if he was losing or not?
The fact is he KO’d a guy in the first round who was ranked in the top 5 in the world. How many fights has Big Nog won that he was losing? The only thing that matters is whose hand is raised at the end.
If that is the case....
then isn’t Fedor miles and miles better than Silva since his had has been raised more times?
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
Do you have anything else other than to constantly bitch & moan to anyone who might mention Silva as anywhere near your beloved Fedor? You have made this argument repeatedly, we get it-you hate Silva.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Yeah
I have too much time on my hands. I should get back to work.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, I get it man but you just really seem
to make it your personal daily goal to destroy Silva’s “alleged” greatness. Personally, I do not put him at Fedor’s level because of what you mentioned, that Fedor has only been defeated once (even though it was crazy). But to say Silva is not dominant & great is crazyness itself.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
My point exactly.
Two fighters can both be great while not having the exact same resume. This same argument would apply to any other champion.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Yep, just because Silva has lost and Fedor hasn’t doesn’t mean that right now at this point in time Fedor is automatically better.
You can also add GSP into this discussion.
GSP had some holes early on in his game that he has since rectified & has reached another level. Early losses should not bring a dominant fighter down who has went on to destroy everything put in front of him.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Good point. Also what if Fedor keeps fighting a few more years and ends up losing a couple fights before it’s all over does that make him any less dominant? Of course not just like those early losses don’t reflect on Silva or GSP now.
Right, good point about Fedor possibly losing
in what would be the twilight of his career. This same thing, for me, applies to Chuck. He reached his prime later in life, but recent losses on the backside of his career mark him in some peoples eyes. In his prime, Chuck dominated everyone with highlight KO’s. Apparently (P4P) does determine it that way.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Personally, I consider the skills displayed in competent fashion.
I consider them both equally good. They’ve both faced questionable competition, but they’ve always displayed great composure, intelligence, riddum and technical dexterity.
Silva schooled MWs like Leben and Franklin, while Fedor fought washed-up UFCers and took Nog to fierce decisions. Good and bad from both.
You are absolutely correct,
I was only responding to Blazin. The point was about possible ways an opponent might have to battle Fedor. The reason Fedor won is his ability to figure out his opponents weakness & AA’s was his chin.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
Fedor showed weakness? Not sure I agree with that because the fight was only two and a half minutes long. Did he show weakness against Randleman when he got slammed? Or Hunt when he was trapped in the kimura? I think he showed heart, because a true champion triumphs in the face of adversity. Like me when I rise above the haters! Zing!
It's not enough that I succeed. Everyone else must fail.
yeah it showed fedor has a big heart, but doesn't it also show (even a little bit) on how people could beat fedor standing?
All im saying is, fedor got into trouble in his fight, and silva didn’t even got touched, yet the guy gets lots on undeserved criticism and goes down the pfp ladder..
It’s more of showing how unfair the criticism of silva is, and not a knock on fedor.. im just giving an example of where people could criticize fedor too but he doesn’t get it..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 15, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Difference between Fedor's and Silva's last fights:
Cote’ took himself out of the fight. Fedor took Arlovski to the canvas.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Apr 15, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
Fedor failed to take AA down, got beaten to the punch by a better boxer, let Andre punch and kick him around in the corner until he landed one opportune punch on a reckless mistake.
Anderson’s effort vs. Cote was a mix of landing often without being hit in return, winning the fight unanimously, and dancing circles around Cote until his knee blew out.
I think the notion that Fedor was unimpressive while Silva was dominant is ridiculous. Fedor won by first round KO, Silva won because his opponent injured himself. Yes Silva was in control of the fight but why did a guy who finished Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson in under 2 rounds mess around with a guy like Cote? Either he just wasn’t motivated for the fight or he actually felt threatened by Cote, either way he shouldn’t get the same amount of credit that Fedor should for quickly disposing of a guy who is ten times more dangerous than Patrick Cote.
People miss the whole point...
The article just said that Fedor had a chink in his armor revealed. Arlovski’s technical boxing was really chipping away at Fedor…and then Arlovski got WAY too over zealous. I think Fedor’s performance and Silva’s were equal if you look at what they normally do and what they actually did. We all thought Fedor was going to submit Arlovski with the quickness, but the fight never touched the mat and he was getting tagged by Arlovski. We expected Silva to come in and drop Cote in the first, but instead he rope a’ doped and danced around, but was never touched.
And before you mention that Arlovski was top 5…Anderson had already destroyed the men at the top of the MW division…who else was he going to fight?
The whole arguement is retarded though, two different fighters, both great…who gives a damn about P4P which is just theoretical BS anyways.
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 15, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
For the record I don’t prefer one over the other, I think they’re both great and enjoy watching them both fight. That being said there is no argument that the guy Fedor was fighting was way better than the guy Silva was fighting. You can’t say well what if what if what if. Great, Arlovski hit Fedor with some good shots for a couple minutes, how’d that work out for him?
And how many good shots did Fedor really get hit with anyway? I don’t remember this crazy (if brief) domination that others seem to.
I do not recall anyone ever saying anything about Fedor being dominated in that fight.
What was said was that Fedor was losing that, which he was.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
What was being said was he won but it was unimpressive because AA was getting to him. Maybe it’s just me but knocking out Arlovski in the first round impresses me.
Maybe I just took it a different way than you guys did then.
My take was that AA had a solid gameplan for beating Fedor & was accomplishing it until he made the fatal flying knee mistake. My hat is off to Fedor for sure & it was impressive. But it just makes me wonder had AA stuck to that strict gameplan & not risked so much on one move, what might have happened? Could & would Fedor eventually get the fight to the mat & finish AA, absolutely, but the plan AA had was working.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
From bigweeze
Fedor failed to take AA down, got beaten to the punch by a better boxer, let Andre punch and kick him around in the corner until he landed one opportune punch on a reckless mistake.
That looks like somebody claiming Fedor was being dominated to me, even if he didn’t use the word.
Word..
That is all.
If you're gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
by ThatGuyOverThere on Apr 15, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
For someone with the screen name P4P is a stupid concept
You seem to like to make those kinds of comparisons.
Arlowski . Fedor fight
Did everyone watch the same fight? Half a round Arlovski landed a few jabs, that’s it, he wasn’t hurting Fedor and since it was only half a round don’t you think Fedor would’ve ADOPTED (as he always does) to the strength of Arlovski?
Seriously, everyone needs to watch the fight on mute and without any bias (I know that’s impossible). Arlovski was not “chipping” or “blasting” Fedor with anything.
FURTHERMORE, and this is the MAIN POINT:
Everyone (Pros too) predicted Arlovski would win on the feet but Fedor would win on the ground. What did Fedor do? HE BEAT ARLOVSKI ON THE FEET. He had his *superior ground game and he still beat Arlovski, a soon to be pro boxer, on his feet (beat him BOXING).
I’m not claiming anything, just the bias is retarded and these P4P lists are so effing dumb and brings out the worst in people.
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