12 months ago this would have been for a title shot.

I’ve never bought the idea of Shogun changing. He’s always had bad cardio and weak boxing along with aggression and vicious clinching. There’s no difference between 2005 Shogun and 2007 Shogun. His last fight he probably had a little less gas in the tank because of ring rust, but he wouldn’t have had any answer for Coleman’s wrestling anyway.

Please, if anyone wants to get into a point by point debate on this sometime later I’d give them a go.

11pm EST.

Just in case some peeps forgot.

Couldn’t agree more. Chuck is gonna win this. It’s just a matter of how he does it and what round he KO’s Shogun. I suppose there’s a chance Shogun will come in 100%, but I’m not holding my breath. As I said before, I hope Shogun wins, but Chuck is gonna take this.

Yeah I really can’t see Chuck losing if we get the same Shogun. Shogun has always been wild and open with his hands and he usually uses that to get in and control his opponent with the thai clinch but its very hard to get a hold of Liddell. So I think we’ll see a wild Shogun trying to chase a backpedaling Liddell which is basically how all of Liddell’s old fights went when he was a breaking fools. I think we’ll see a Liddell stoppage win and then him earning a title shot before Rampage…

On another note, I gotsa friend coming over who’s just getting into this great sport. He already hates Lesnar so I have UFC 81 for him, which also features some other kick ass fights. But I’m wondering what else to show him. Barring 2002 Shockwave and some UFC Fight Nights, there is no PRIDE or UFC I do not have, so hit me up with some ideas.

I have a bet on Chuck at -175 for almost the exact reasons outlined here. (Actually, I’m hoping to arb out of it because I cannot fathom trying to root for Chuck again after UFC 88.)

Chuck’s always been a bad style matchup for Shogun, even at their peaks. Just look at the Wanderlei fight if you want an idea of how this one goes. And while Chuck hasn’t looked spectacular the past couple years, we saw what a motivated Chuck looks like at UFC 79. I expect that same Liddell in the Shogun fight. Combined with him branching out and working with ATT and Howard Davis Jr., Shogun’s in some trouble here.

I agree with all of Rome’s points on Shogun looking like a different guy and Chuck being more sound fundamentals-wise. But where Chuck is officially at the “decline period” of his career where outside of certain outliers (Couture) you’re generally not going to be able to even retain the same level of performance as the last fight let alone get better…Shogun is still young and can easily train to improve his boxing technique (which requires work) and his cardio.

I’m going with that line of thinking and I think Shogun will be a bit more relentless with slightly better cardio and if he can avoid the big shot counter punching that Chuck could easily win with I think he catches Liddell and ends his night.

I’m still taking names of anyone who wants to pick Chuck in this fight.

I remember ufc4 and subo (i think) are going for Chuck from the other time I said this.

If anyone else wants to take Chuck, let me know, so I can make mention of it whenever I see you’ve made a post.

If Coleman can connect with Shogun then Chuck’s going to have no problem landing.

Liddell by KO rd3, landing flush on a tired and frustrated Shogun.

I dont know why people think Chuck cant knock Shogun out, the last thing that leaves a fighter is there power, and Chuck still has that. Also just because Chuck got KO, dosnt meen that he cant take a punch and dosnt have heart, if Shogun can rock Liddell, then he should do it fast, because Chuck can still throw punches from weird angles that can stop a charging Shogun.

Shogun is going to win this fight. It’ll be a right kick followed by a left straight and finished with a right cross.

I don’t understand this piece at all.

First and foremost, both fighters on the decline, but Shogun is still only 27 years of age. He, at least, has a significant shot at coming out of his rut. But what caused the rut?

Go back to Joe Rogan’s analysis and anyone else’s analysis for that matter. Knee surgeries take a tremendous toll on conditioning that was surely built up over a lenghty amount of time. ANY FAN that believes Shogun can simply build that up in a 3 month span instantaneously after a couple of knee surgeries isn’t thinking clearly.

I think these obvious facts should be mentioned instead of simply saying that Shogun is on the decline. In actuality, this fight could prove to be the Shogun coming out party in the UFC. If his cardio is on pace finally, his knees not stopping him from running and conditioning himself efficiently, he could very well have the cardio to go for at least 2 good rounds.

I do, however, agree that this is a style fight for Chuck. He’ll have lengthy range to tap his overhands to Shogun. He’ll be very tough for Shogun to even think about taking down, and it’s going to be a war on the inside if it gets there.

In the end, this matchup is more of a question for both guys. Is Shogun’s cardio there? Will he be relentless in his pace or more laid back as he continues to build his conditioning? It just doesn’t happen overnight. It’s sickening to see people blast Shogun all over the map. The guy hurt his knee TWICE.

I’m really looking forward to this one. I’ve always been a huge Liddell fan, and I really hope we see him with some progress in changing his game a little and not leaving himself quite as open as he did against Rampage and Rashad. I was also a fan of Shogun in Pride and was very excited when he came to the UFC. My friends who never watch anything except UFC laughed at me when I told them Shogun was the real deal and would be a factor in the UFC. Then he came in with a bum knee, looked horrible against Forrest, and hasn’t really looked any better since.

In my ideal world I’d like to see this one go to the third round with it being a war for the first two. Liddell looking sharp, stuffing most takedowns, landing sharp blows, and not looking gassed; Shogun getting some good kicks in and maybe getting the clinch a few times to keep it exciting. Then a Liddell k.o. via one clean shot to drop Shogun and the “jackhammer” blows while Liddell stands over him. Both guys come out of it looking like they have at least a shot of sticking around and putting on some more good shows.

… ‘course I don’t live in an ideal world, so it’ll likely end up looking like the Coleman/Shogun fight where both guys look bad and gassed early and it’s just disappointing all the way around.

But I see a lot of “Shogun’s style is tailor-made for Chuck” comments.

I also saw a lot of those same comments before the Rashad/Chuck fight (sub in Rashad for Shogun) on this website in the comments section. “Rashad is being fed to Chuck; he’s gonna stuff Rashad’s takedowns and knock him out!”

Styles can and sometimes do evolve.