Asleep at the Wheel on Nick Diaz
by Luke Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 2:12 PM EDT
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I've been thinking about why I misjudged the Shamrock vs. Diaz bout and I'll get to that, but first let's establish some context:
At just 25 years old, Nick Diaz has been a pro for seven years. He has battled bigger opponents regularly and won fans even in defeat. But there was no question who the better fighter was Saturday, with Frank Shamrock getting a potent dose of Diaz at his best in the main event of Strikeforce’s Showtime-televised card at the HP Pavilion.
Diaz outlanded Shamrock 129 to 42, cleverly working his range while peppering his foe with a mix of stiff punches and the occasional kick mixed in.
"That’s just how I fight," Diaz said at the post-fight news conference. "He’s got a shorter reach than me. I was just trying to get him to throw the right hand (and counter), then get in his face. The key was to get out there. I felt good."
...
Often misunderstood given his penchant for straight talk and sometimes-abrasive moods, Diaz still feels he’s on a mission to help illustrate what mixed martial arts should be. With Strikeforce promoter Scott Coker saying that fighters from Japan’s Dream organization could be brought in for cross-promotional bouts, the Stockton-based battler said he likes the Japanese rules that encourage a more sportive feel.
"It’s a more technical fight," Diaz said of the rules in Japan, which give yellow cards for inactivity and prohibit elbows to the head on the ground. "It’s more my game. (In America) if the guy is holding on, you have to either figure out what to do or hold on tighter to win. Plus I like the ring aspect. It helps the technical aspects of a standup fighter."
A couple of issues struck me in listening to Diaz talk post-fight (when he's sober and openly communicative). First, I admit to forgetting what a healthy respect for technique Diaz keeps. Even if you disagree with some judgment calls he makes in the name of improving or testing his technique, Diaz revels in the idea that the more technical fighter can overcome physically daunting obstacles. That his size has naturally kept expanding with his skill set only makes his more physically daunting. As for his toughness, I get the sense he recognizes it's helpful and he tends to lean on it a little too much for my comfort, but I also contend he prides himself more for what talents he's developed than his natural gift of tolerating punishment to lift him through violent battles.
Second, it turns out Diaz ran a triathalon just weeks out of the fight. Such a draining experience can and did force Diaz to physically reset after the event somewhat disrupted his progress in camp. Clearly getting in shape to even run a triathalon is probably beneficial, but I wonder if the inconsistent performances from Diaz over the last couple of years (poor performances, mind you, that seemed to involved Diaz's physical ability on fight day as well as now two weigh-in issues) are the result of Diaz's inability to properly regulate what appears to be substantially demanding athletic hobbies during fight camp. There's no doubt physical issues aside, he was far too skilled for Shamrock on the ground and the effective use of range helped him win, but I'm curious to know if despite Diaz's considerable MMA experience he hasn't been able to refine his peaking during training given his many hobbies and responsibilties.
When Diaz is firing on all cylinders (as he seemed to be last night), one gets a fresh reminder of what a physically intimidating, clever, experienced and talented competitor he can be. Set up the rematch with Lawler already.
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it also helped that he fought a fighter in frank who was completely shot imo. let’s see how he fares against someone who can actually fight back.
“a potent dose of Diaz”
I took one of those one time and I was tripping balls, man.
by smoogy on Apr 12, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This may be true, but I still don’t think he could hang in the UFC, at 185 or 170.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 12, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
he can be top 10 (in the UFC) in either division..
Karo, Swick, Serra and thiago are all in the top 10. I think he can take maybe 2 out of the 4 there.
and in MW, where i dont think he should be fighting at, he could pose some problems for akiyama and sonnen.. although i think that he’d do better at 170..
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 12, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lawler isn’t the only one who decides where a fight takes place, just ask Mayhem,
by N. Rodriguez on Apr 13, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Because he has nightmares about what happened the last time they fought.
by George Lucas on Apr 13, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Diaz should stay at the higher weight classes (185+)
His “love tap” boxing that everyone gave him shit for since the Noons fight has a lot more power behind it now with the extra weight and his cardio looked superb.
It will be great to see him fight Lawler, but if Shields beats Lawler then what?
I’d love to see Mousasi and Diaz fight at 185, however as they are two of my favorite fighters.
I agree
I think the extra weight looked good on him whereas in the lighter weight classes he just looked weak. For a guy as tall as he is, some power lifting could do him some good to get some meat on those bones. He is young enough that he could get really, really good.
I think they could still sell a Diaz/Lawler fight if Shields won.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 12, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently, no one has even known, is or has been a pot head....
Ever meet a real big pot head who will sit you down and rave about something for an hour or so? I mean, when Skymoon calls me over to tell me how great Phish is, I can count on hearing some ranting and raving for the next hour. Diaz is similar, except he his a freak about technicality. I feel like an interview doesn’t pass where he doesn’t rave about how technical a fighter he is. How a technical fighter can beat anyone, as long as he sticks by the game plan. I think a lot of that has to do with dedication, and that may be the underlying theme. Diaz comes off as a jack ass, no real other words to describe it, but underlying all of it is this constant dedication that he revolves his life around. I think the triathlons, along with his ever adherence to the technical side of fighting, paints a picture of a guy who finds enjoyment in utterly dedicating himself to something. Does he rant and rave like a pothead? Yeah, but if ya really listen and watch, you can find a completely different man, or sometimes Diaz finds a way show you himself.
If I was Frank Shamrock...
I would be pissed, because so many people are looking at his loss the wrong way. Out of his prime and old? People, he was fighting an accomplished fighter with heavy hands (go talk to Lawler about the latter) and he looked dwarfed against him.
No one mentions how freaking quick Frank got out of that key lock attempt and sood right back up and landed a couple of hard shots during the transition. Diaz fought the perfect fight against Frank…period. Yes Frank is getting older, and yes, he is definately past his prime…but is that REALLY why he lost? Did he really look like a washed up old man…or a smaller fighter who just couldn’t get inside.
Now, in relation to the post (the above was just for all the knuckle headed comments), Nick Diaz has been looked over because of his inconsistancy, but when he is ready and in shape, he is a force to be reckoned with. I personally know and train with a guy who was a room mate with the Diaz brothers and I’ve heard all about Nick’s triathalons…he loves them. Does it just for fun. He might enjoy running his mouth, but Nick Diaz is a natural athlete one way or another. I would like to see him keep growing in the sport, because when he’s not hyping a fight, he is actually a very respectable guy. Nick pre-fight and Nick post-fight are two different people (unless he loses…) I was impressed with the respect he was showing Frank after the fight.
I have tons of respect for both fighters after last night and will be eagerly awaiting their next preformance.
edit
sood right back up = STOOD right back up…
lol
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 12, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Diaz has been fighting one or even two weight classes below where Frank fights at. Noons and Gomi are lightweight fighters. Frank Shamrock was the biggest name fighter Diaz has ever fought and Diaz was having to come way up to even get to the catchweight.
Exactly. As soon as Nick figures out what REAL weight class he wants to settle at, which I presume would be the one he would also feel most comfortable at, he’s going to come into the fights in an even better shape because I can only imagine he would want to turn the excess fat into muscle and just hold it there. Nick has a bright future, and I don’t think the immidiate future is dark for Frank.
Frank will never be like Ken, and in the end I think that is what matters. At least when Frank was fighting I didn’t feel like I was watching some kid whoop my dads ass, while, for example the Ken vs. Buzz Berry fight…was very much like that.
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 12, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole triathlon thing impresses me. Was he doing full triathlons or sprints? A full triathlon two weeks before a major fight is insane and impressive at the same time.
Yeah, who got the final Death Blow? 'Cause I thought that Hawaiian guy had it comin' to him. - C. K.
by monkeyfightclub! on Apr 12, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions
Full triathlons. And yes, very impressive indeed.
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 12, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Is the triathlon you are referring to based on a promo vid for Diaz?
Because if so that is an old video from the EXC days. I noticed Showtime had reupped it was apparently sending it out to other outlets as part of the push for this fight.
But of course he may have just done another triathlon.
He did a full triathlon two weeks out, according to Cesar Gracie.
by George Lucas on Apr 13, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank You Luke,
Great Topic! Great Stuff!
I noticed you kind of avoided the “trash talk” aspect of Diaz’s fight game. I can’t be sure but I actually think I saw Diaz apologize to Frank for the trash talk when they shook hands after the initial Diaz pulling Frank to his feet and slapping him around. Remember that Mazagatti actually yelled at Diaz to stop talking in the Lawler fight. I think Diaz’s in-fight talking is a huge part of his game. It seems as important for getting himself into the fight as it does to get his opponents head out of it. I love the idea of a Diaz – Lawler re-match.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Professionalism dosen’t exactly effect how you fight (unless Nick gets caught when he’s taunting…then that point is moot) and he seemed pretty professional after the fight, so long as afterwards he puts all the trash talk away and is respectful, I don’t give a damn what he says to hype the fight.
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 12, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
See, this is my biggest problem with Diaz haters. This isn’t to say, I’m a big Diaz fan, but there is arguably no more well trained for a long exciting fight than Nick Diaz. Just one of the most misinformed Nick Diaz quotes in a while. Dickhead, distraction, jerk, yeah they all may fit the Nick Diaz mold, but he is always focused, has always been a consistently exciting and consistent to his form fighter, and he always fights. To say he always goes out there and fights is a lot more than I can say about a lot of fighters..
by Gogo Platter on Apr 12, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a huge fan of Nick, but I have seen him with the fans, and he was a very nice guy.
I think people assumed that Nick was done, because of his past few performances. That said, I think he is kind of lost in the weight classes. The cut to LW kills him, imo. The 185 class he would get destroyed by big, powerful guys. So that leaves the 170 class, where I think he should be. Problem is, there are a lot of big, powerful guys at 170 as well. His toughness and skill get him a long way, but eventually that road block pops up.
As far as him ever being the big guy for a promotion, I think as long as he speaks out about weed and acts the fool, we won’t see it. That doesn’t mean he needs to become a shill, simply that sometimes he needs to keep his mouth shut for his own good.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
You also have to remember that the 170 divison holds Jake Shields, which is one of Nick’s friends. That makes a big difference in the division. If there is a lot of things that Nick Diaz is, but he is always reliable and close to his friends.
by Gogo Platter on Apr 12, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with judging a fighter like Nick Diaz is that:
a)His most recent fight was against an over-the-hill fighter whose was always a better talker than fighter. Hey look, I can beat up on the elderly too!
b) He’s been fighting nobodies since Gomi – and where Gomi ranks on the nobody/somebody scale is up for debate.
c) He needs to stick to a weight class. Fighting up and down like this makes it hard to know what won the fight – skill, reach size? Dunno.
d) The UFC is the only relevant league in MMA. Wait, that requires more description.
Japanese leagues are free of testing, so you can’t accurately judge the results of any of their fights – and half of the fights are squash matches or freak-shows. American leagues are either feeder programs for the UFC where the competition is made of 0-1 fighters or retirement programs for guys like Frank Shamrock who are just looking for a pay-day while avoiding a broken hip.
THAT’s why nobody can judge Nick Diaz properly. It’s nothing to do with his loud mouth, his training or anything.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Apr 13, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Get that UFC is the only relevant league in MMA out of here.
Take the fanboyism out, and maybe we will take you seriously. Point d) was just ridiculous.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Apr 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Where ‘relevant’ – ‘relevant to ratings and determining who the best fighter in the world is’ – the rest of MMA is to develop fighters, give paychecks and generally have fun and entertain. The UFC is where the real business gets done when it comes to top ten fighters (with a few notable exceptions out of about fifty fighters)
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 13, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Take the fanboyism out, and maybe we will take you seriously…
by MMASuPreMaCy
heh
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Apr 13, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a fanboy of the UFC. I’m appaled at their trade practices, I’m disappointed in their antics, and I wish that somebody else was at the helm.
But if you can show me another organization that has both a) regulated fights and b) consistently high levels of talent, I’ll add them to my list. As it stands, they’re the only group that’s treating the sport like a sport that’s doing well enough to get the top tier fighters.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Apr 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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