It Is Time for Dana White to Change His Tune
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:32 PM EDT
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In his latest VLOG Dana White launched into a tirade aimed at Loretta Hunt during which he referred to her as a "fucking bitch" and her anonymous source as a "pussy and a faggot." I know that it's common practice for MMA fans and even the MMA media to give Dana a pass on the unprofessional behavior he displays with his language and actions when dealing with the press, conducting interviews, buying groceries..etc. But at a certain point there is a line that is crossed between a harmless lack of professionalism and unacceptable behavior. I'd say this latest tirade is well over that line.
Maybe it speaks to White's success that the general reaction to this outburst wasn't immediately to call for an apology or at least to frown upon it but rather to excuse him as "just being passionate about the company" or simply as "Dana being Dana." Then again maybe it speaks more to the fact that the UFC and MMA as a whole is still far from being on equal footing with other professional sports where the line of acceptability and personal accountability is defined and enforced. It's kind of like when your parents would tell you "if you can't act like an adult, I'm not going to treat you like an adult."
Now, I'm not a PC Cop or anything but I can not think of any other sports organization head who would not be forced to resign or at the very least issue a very public appology for this type of behavior. Try for a minute to picture Bud Selig laying into a female reporter as a "fucking bitch" and publicly calling someone a "faggot." Now picture what the reaction by sports media, fans and the league would be. It wouldn't be to chuckle and say "wow, he didn't hold back at all did he?"
We could go back to 2006 to see the reaction of the sports world when Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen called reporter Jay Mariotti a "fag" for negative stories about Guillen and the team. Guillen, who is simply a manager, was fined and forced to undergo sensitivity training while the media wrote article upon article about his unacceptable behavior. I'm not one to push for mandatory "sensitivity training" but this was for someone well down on the MLB food chain. This wasn't someone from the MLB front office.
Why then, do we give Dana a free pass in situations like this? Is it simple self preservation for the community? Has he simply done so much good for the sport that it is too hard to say "we're moving toward full mainstream acceptance, it's time to act like a professional or at the very least not use hateful slurs in public"?
Maybe some of you think that I'm being a bit too overdramatic here, but I think a time is going to come when actions like these are going to hold the UFC and MMA as a whole back from getting where we want it to go. Eventually a rant like this by Dana is going to get picked up and ran with by the mainstream media and turned into a big "look at who runs this brutal sport" type of story and we'll all look back and wonder why no one stepped up sooner to draw a line in the sand and said "crossing this line will not be tolerated." And then we'll all realize it's because if you were to say it, they'd take away your access to the beach.
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Is there one to express your dissatisfaction with this kind of stuff?
For fuck’s sake, it’s a West Coast sport for the most part. Don’t we all know/work with/live with gay people in our day to day lives? How do people still get away with talking like this?
If somebody at my company dropped that word at the office, let alone on video, they’d get hauled in for sensitivity training.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally sick of Sherdog
Agree. Dana does not use PC language.
However, I too am sick of Sherdog and all their anti-UFC bullshit. Get ’em Dana!
“appology”
But other than that, I agree Dana is not being very smart by launching these unprofessional sounding insults at people regardless of who they are. He should just have laughed it off and said Sherdog doesn’t matter to him, that’s why they don’t get a press pass.
By the way, it would be 10 times funnier if Bud Selig said these things than it was for Dana White.
yeah...my spell check broke I guess...
and I’m a child of the technological age. I needs my spellcheck!
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I can imagine you weren’t too pleased writing this article, so I am sure it flowed pretty fast.
I always point out any mistypes I see(not in a jerk manner) so if you guys can edit posts after the fact you can just remove anything I spot.
Nah...
it’s cool. I’d rather it get pointed out and fixed. And I’m serious…spellcheck has broken my ability to just plain ol’ spell
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Your're obviously right.
One of two things have to happen if the UFC and MMA is to push further into the mainstream: 1) White realizes that he must temper his language and disparaging remarks, 2) The UFC feels the financial and/or public relations repercussions of said behavior and he is forced aside or compelled to soften his behavior. At some point you must act the part if you want to be mentioned with the big-time sports bodies. It’s just the way it is. Playing to the Spike crowd will only carry you so far.
It's pretty much gone as far as it can...
I don’t think there really is much of the Spike crowd left to capture. ESPN is obviously making their way into the MMA thing between the webshow and Bellator which means that if they continue to expand at some point they’re going to feature UFC stuff more prominently. Once that happens the first time Dana drops a public “faggot” or “fucking bitch” it’s going to be a real mess.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe some of you think that I'm being a bit too overdramatic here
I’ll probably get bashed, but I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion.
So you consider it...
to be perfectly acceptable behavior?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
In what way?
I don’t financially support discriminatory and homophobic organizations.
Dana is the face and voice of the UFC. The UFC is the major organization in the sport I love. I don’t want him representing my sport in that way.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think...
a lot of people don’t realize that “the other f word” has the same general impact to the gay community that “the n word” has for African Americans
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe not.
But they need to figure it out, because that is the direct parallel.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
My older brother is gay – it’s a fucked up word that has gotten me into more than a few fights with people that refused to apologize. Funny how the people using it are normally the weakest, least able to defend themselves in the group.
Dana fucked up here.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I hate this overly PC attitude where we are forced to call certain words “_-Words”. When discussing racial politics in class, I’ve used “nigger” and was almost thrown out. It wasn’t in anger or directed toward anyone – we were discussing a word, but I wasn’t allowed to say it. Even other groups have unusual slurs – many deaf people will fight if called “dumb” because it’s the archaic term for deafness, but implies stupidity. “Midget” is the same way with dwarves. I almost cause a fight when someone called me a “suck-up.” “Oh my God” (a profanity) is actually more offensive that “fuck” (an obscenity), yet which one gets bleeped?
I don’t condone the random use or abuse these words have achieved, but people need to differentiate when they’re being used hatefully (like Dana) or clinically (like above).
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree...
and in actually TALKING about it I’d probably just say it. But um…I don’t know…something about putting it in writing where you can search my name and that word on google and actually have something turn up makes me not want to use it in writing.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I just try not to call people what they ask me not to call them.
It’s one of those “golden rule” things.
I think the homosexual community has been pretty clear they don’t appreciate the use of that term, so we should probably all refrain from using it.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, many members are trying to reclaim it, as the rap/hip-hop did with “nigger”, albeit changing the pronunciation.
That’s actually how “Yankee Doodle” entered the vernacular.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Be that as it may ...
… I don’t think Dana is using it in that post-modern context here.
Do you?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope – I don’t agree at all with his using it. I don’t find being homosexual a derogatory condition, so I don’t like using “gay” or “faggot”, etc as insults. I was just saying not all gay people find it offensive, and instead their trying to devalue the word.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if you went and said it at a GLBT pride parade, you’d find more than a few still find it offensive.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I have gay family members...
we’ve had the discussion. They’re not too thrilled when the word is used.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep – which is why I wouldn’t do it there. I wouldn’t just randomly throw it in the conversation because of how explosive it is, but if I was discussing the word itself with gay people, however, I would use it because it’s crucial to that conversation.
The only time I really got in trouble with it was when I said “Throw another faggot on the fire.” No one else knew that faggot is a term for a bundle of sticks, and I didn’t think about what I was saying. Mea culpa.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Until humanity at large is able to make that distinction, let’s just shelve them.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but a big difference here is that Dana White is a public figure and the head of the world’s largest MMA organization. You can agree or disagree with the PC attitude out there but that doesn’t change the fact that it is the world we live in. A big reason that Dana needs to clean up his act isn’t because it’s a bad thing but because he is Dana White UFC president.
I’ve never liked Dana’s unprofessionalism, and I do think words have power, so randomly throwing around insults is dangerous. There are much better, trenchant ways he could have attacked Hunt. I have no problem with cursing, but when you do it as much as Dana, substituting curses when normal words would suffice, it reveals an intellectual laziness.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well we see and hear things like this getting blown up all the time by the media, even if it is being overdramatic that is how our society works. Dana being Dana is rapidly getting to the point where it will be a hinderance to the company’s PR ability. This stuff flies now because no one pays attention but eventually MMA will get to the point where his language would put him on CNN and 60 minutes and that will be a disaster for Zuffa. Zuffa really needs a better PR department.
news flash...dana white is not the head of a major sport
he has steered this sport from humble beginning to what it is now with a tabloid tv show and video game releases. its embarassing behavior, but who is going to force him to issue and apology?
He is the president...
of the largest MMA organization in the world. That’s good enough for me to call him the “head of a major sport”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m aware that he heads a major mma orginization. my point is there are no checks and balances to any ufc actions that outliers of what athletic commissions control and the type of attitude that dana exhibits is the attitude that they have marketed. not only will it go unpunished, but it will probably get rewarded in ‘mma-street cred’, sadly enough.
they only ones who might hold a small sway over dana are the ppv companies and spike channell….and good luck with them police-ing dana.
ps….i agree, his behavior is abhorrent.
You see that, off in the distance? That’s the point. You missed it.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems that he is...
this guy I referenced in the story:
Why then, do we give Dana a free pass in situations like this? Is it simple self preservation for the community? Has he simply done so much good for the sport that it is too hard to say “we’re moving toward full mainstream acceptance, it’s time to act like a professional or at the very least not use hateful slurs in public”?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
One can be hideously pro-UFC and still not be a member of a personality cult. I’m walking talking proof.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
When I started writing here...
the usual term for me by the readers was “Dana White’s twin” for my refusal to bash the UFC
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, same here
Oh wait, they still call me things like that
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Smoogy’s evil twin and Brock’s step brother.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Blackout612 on Apr 1, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dana went too far here
The shame of it is this will be appropriated and bastardized by every pet project that runs against Dana – be it simply people that run against Dana, or the UFC, or MMA in general. The proper outrage over his words will tragically be lost in the umbrage over the fact that he treats the media like shit, and the media will feed the umbrage.
Brent, I know you’re not part of that mob, seeing as how you’re focusing your critique on what he actually said and not the fact that he ignored a negative piece. I just hope I’m wrong about everybody else.
That's exactly it...
he can be plenty outraged over the story and even express it. He just can’t do it like he did.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
does the fact that it is a vlog on youtube make a difference?
good article, and you are correct. Regardless of the original article, Dana did go a little far on this one, but this is a personal vlog he does that is posted on youtube. i don’t know if it makes it better or worse or what, but should we hold Dana accountable to personal vlogs like if he is giving an interview to an established org.? i don’t know, but the article is a good one. I embarrasingly admit i like it and the drama it adds, but in the long run it may be better to not be the face of MMA and have these kind of things
Personal and Youtube don't go together...
he knew who he was talking to and what gets done with the footage. It’s the same as talking directly to the public in my book
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Public figures get in trouble all the time for comments they make that they think are personal or even private, it comes with being a public figure. The only reason this doesn’t pick up steam is because none of the big media/sports media players are paying attention to him right now. That will change in the future and something as simple as a youtube comment could cost him his job and be devestating for the entire company PR wise.
I finally got a chance to watch the entire thing. One aspect that’s distressing is that, assuming the facts he presented are facts, he makes several important points that do much to debunk the article in question. However, those points will likely be overshadowed by him going over the edge with language. I like Dana, but he needs to get on top of this and admit he screwed up.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 1, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yep, when you sink to this level you lose the arguement, even if your side might of been right.
by who me on Apr 1, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dana's bosses will handle this...
Lorenzo and Frank are majority owners of the UFC- at least they were last time I checked. So, it can be argued they have more at stake than Dana as they are more heavily invested, and I have to believe that those guys will reign Dana in. At some point, this organization becomes too valuable for Dana White to keep playing cowboy- I think the UFC is probably there now. Lorenzo and Frank strike me as intelligent, worldly, and they know what they can and can’t get away with. When Dana becomes a liability, a real liability, his role will change.
I know it has been said before, but when I think of the NFL, Roger Goodell doesn’t pop in my mind first. Same with the NBA, MLB and all other major sports. Dana is more recognizable than his fighters with a few exceptions and the UFC needs to shift this.
by I don't wear mma t-shirts on Apr 1, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
I wasn’t surprised to hear him say it. In a way, I was waiting for it (on previous editions of the Vlog and in interviews, I’ve heard him call things "gay"). I don’t personally find his use of the word as a to parallel to the “n” word (more akin to calling someone retarded or a bitch, in that it’s derogatory separate of it’s intended meaning). I’m not saying that makes it okay, but that the situation is not beyond repair. Eminem was famously involved in a public dispute over his use of the word “faggot” in his lyrics (which, strangely, ended in a duet with Elton John). I think Dana should apologize for the offensive nature of his words and promise to avoid their use in the future.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
by Blackout612 on Apr 1, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"I don’t personally find his use of the word as a to parallel to the "n" word..."
In what way is it not a parallel?
It’s a hateful term to describe a member of a certain group.
It is designed only to give offense and demean.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I deliberately explained how it isn’t a parallel.
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
Yes, and then I explained how it was.
So since I went second I win.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Enjoy
"I hit [Evensen], and you could just see it in his head. He went, 'Oh, man. We don't have to do this anymore. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm going to go home now." -Pat "The Real Techno Viking" Berry
My other trick is to put my point in all caps.
That way people KNOW I’m right.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I LUV ARGUING ON TEH INTRAWEBS!!ii!iii!
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana is a smart guy.....
He has the ability to clean up his mouth when required. It isn’t required now as his language is not going to affect his current network and sponsorship deals. He arrogantly believes that his language won’t affect any future deals ( he may be right ). However, if an ESPN or a CBS deal is struck…..or a major new sponsorship deal is inked…..we will see Dana’s Vlogs disappear and his language and image improve immediately.
Exactly. He knows to keep it clean on ESPN.
Plus, it isn’t exactly an easy thing to keep the respect of 200+ fighters, all of whom could obviously beat him into the ground (except Roli Delgado). The more you play nice, the more people want from you.
The people at ESPN don’t know how to watch clips from Youtube? Just because he didn’t say it on ESPN doesn’t mean that one day ESPN reporters might not be looking for stuff he said to turn into news.
Whenever (if) that does happen, which I don’t think it will (MMA Live isn’t even on TV), the news will be X months/years old. And then he will apologize, explain that site _ has had a vendetta against the UFC, he got incensed and went over the line. But let’s not pretend he physically threatened her or worse. It won’t pick up any steam whatsoever. If anything it would be activist groups to worry about.
Dana’s in a high stress job. Executives swear, fighters swear, everyone swears. People may keep it in mind, but Dana will not be raked over any coals for this event specifically.
It’s not about a specific event it’s about a pattern to all his actions. If this comes up years from now it will be because he does it again in the future and it does get picked up on, that is when reporters (and activist groups) will start digging for other dirt to throw on top. Honestly doesn’t the sport already have enough negative connotation to overcome in the US without a scandal about Dana being a homophobic prick?
He can’t change this but it would really be nice if he would cut this crap out in the future because it sure isn’t helping things.
Dana White Doesn't Take Criticism Well
The UFC has been doing whatever the well they want for some time. If this is his reaction to every time a media outlet writes a critical piece towards the UFC, Dana White is in a long ride once MMA gets bigger and bigger (and it has been, so the more in trouble he’s going to get).
While I don’t think Loretta Hunt actively tried to piss off the UFC. She definitely got under Dana White’s skin. Dana looks like the loser because he can’t respond in a respectful manner. If it’s so easy to get a response about Dana, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more writers ribbing Dana for a response like the one Hunt got.
It’ll be fun for us :).
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
by achengy on Apr 1, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I am not personally upset by his comments,
but they certainly do not help. They creates an aura of tough guy bullshit that is complimented nicely by the UFC’s nu-metal motif, which encourages the embrace of the douchey subculture that MMA is currently stigmatized with. Unfortunately, this is currently the way the sport must be marketed to masses, but in order to achieve larger success, the UFC will have to embrace some sort of professionalism as a whole in the future.
Football is a pretty violent sport, but we don’t see a highlight reel of hard hits backed with Stained or some other such bullshit to promote a game.
I think...
That the media has to change for any of this to matter. I’m sorry, but if a certain newspaper just had a vendetta against the NFL it wouldn’t just be brushed off as legitimate reporting. We are talking about a writer for Sherdog who a long with many of the other writers for the site are at odds with Dana and take pot shots at every single turn, and always downplay the success of the UFC, or those responsible for it. I hate that these forms of media believe that they should be able to speculate and bad mouth people in such a position, yet should be treated with respect after such obvious bias is given in their reports.
THis did not happen to a member of the general media… This was not a response to a credentialed reporter… this was not a response to a big News station, or a huge paper… it was a response to a biased writer, from a site that has long before had problems with the UFC and specifically Dana White… I think you all should be able to understand the differences, instead of instantly siding with your “fellow member of the media”. This is the same site that called out Dana for the rampant use of steroids in the sport, yet for years rode the nuts of every fighter in PRIDE that were never tested on a regular basis… It is also a site that’s most notable writer leaked results for the TUF 4… and this is among many other articles on a consistent basis that attack Dana or take shots at the UFC in general…
If you think they haven’t made this personal, I think you’re not looking at the big picture… Even down to the way they rank UFC fighters is usually biased…
That all doesn't matter though...
Look….it looks like Loretta was wrong. But that isn’t how you handle a situation when you are in such a powerful position. It’s just NOT. But thanks for claiming that for some reason I’m siding with Hunt because she’s a “fellow member of the media”
I’ve never met her and honestly think that she’s written a lot of dumb things. That doesn’t open her up to that kind of attack from White
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I was more refering
to those agreeing with her online period… We are all part of the blogosphere, and it seems to me that we as a people believe its cool to say what we want, with no repercussions but then want to bash Dana for a few bad words. I didn’t intend to really attack you, more or less playing devil’s advocate, and I honestly more offended that Ms. Hunt can speculate and be given a pass while blatantly having a bias against the UFC.
Who blatantly has a bias for the UFC.
I am sure its not the people complaining about the piece, but the writer who wrote the piece?
Everyone has a bias. That has no relevance to anything.
Iole, SI, MMAPAYOUT, Fightlinker, BE, etc… everyone has a bias.
That’s not the issue here.
Of course its part of the issue...
Because that bias led to a poor article written by someone at odds with the UFC… THAt’s what caused the reaction, whether it be right or wrong.
So Jay Mariotti
deserved to be called a fag by Guillen because he had an anti-White Sox bias and was not being even handed in his articles for major newspapers. I can’t stand Mariotti but seriously, Guillen went over the line there and deserved the fine he got.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a diehard sox fan...
it’s a hell of a choice because Jay is just awful and Ozzie is the greatest man to ever walk the face of the earth (he brought a Buffalo Bills and Chicago White Sox fan A CHAMPIONSHIP…neither of those teams are supposed to ever win a world title) but it was pretty far out of line
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
the media can have a bias...
it’s up to the reader to care or not and to act accordingly. Plenty of writers attack the NFL on a regular basis. I don’t hear Goddall stomping around proving what a big dick he has by calling them bitches and faggots
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC is not the NFL...
These types of articles can still HURT the UFC… bad press can still hurt the industry at this point, and again, this is more personal than a simple bad article by some random person…. Its another bad article, by people notorious for bias against the UFC. This isn’t random, and is in fact consistent with much of their pieces in regards to the UFC’s business.
If this article has the impact to actually hurt the UFC, then Dana’s rant could kill it.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Apr 1, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I love...
that you refuse to condemn White for his actions but think that the media is to blame for having opinions.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sherdog’s perceived bias is beside the point. They are a big part of the MMA community, and Dana shouldn’t take this course in his criticisms. As I said above, he made good points that will likely be overshadowed by his tactless use of certain words. He’s the head of the UFC, and that comes with certain responsibilities. Chief among them is staying out of the gutter.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 1, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that all that you just wrote was made completly irrelevant due to Dana’s offensive language, you can’t win a discussion in public if your acting like a 12 year old. He is the head of the largest MMA organization in the world, he needs to act the part instead of playing down to the level of those he is trying to disprove.
How does he lose though?
He can say watever he wants as long as its the truth imo… Just because she didn’t call Dana a douche doesn’t make anything she wrote acceptable.
So...
if someone writes something you find unacceptable then no behavior toward them is out of line?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats Not what Im saying...
However I think we need to look at both sides of this realistically. DO you think Dana would respond to a newspaper like this? No, because they wouldn’t of written this totally false piece totally biased against the UFC> In fact, when contacted they probably would have given their side for the piece because their is a mutual relationship between Dana and the general media. The same cannot be said about the UFC and Sherdog.
So they should just not write about the UFC?
What about Josh Gross? He wrote for Sherdog. Are you going to discount his opinion for his affiliation with Sherdog (yes he doesn’t write with them but he’s still very friendly with them)?
What about Bloody Elbow? Is it Luke Thomas (or Nick…can’t check the archives) that writes for them as well? So are you not going to trust him either?
With your logic you can’t take anyone seriously. Just because they also lost their accreditation.
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
What?
I didn’t say everyone was biased against the UFC…. but most of us aware of the history KNOW that Sherdog and the UFC (notably Dana) do not have a good relationship, and much of the fault has to do with the way BOTH parties have handle previous instances.
WHAT I AM SAYING IS… I will not simply give a pass to Hunt for her article, nor completely be shocked at Dana’s response because I am well aware of the prior relationship, and do not believe that it is completely reflective of a simple reaction to the “media”. Dana feels personally attacked, and imo, rightfully so…. The constant criticism of the UFC certainly outweighs much of the good they do, and regardless of his faults, I do not think that Dana is the only one to blame for this situation. Had the UFC and Sherdog had not spoiled their relationship in the past, I may be more surprised, or upset… but I’m not. Both sides have acted questionably in the past, and I’m more understanding of why an individual like Dana would react that way
At this point you ARE saying that because he felt offended that any response at all is fair game because of that prior relationship.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I've said....
That the prior history is what led to a response like this..,. and that history is on behalf of both parties.
DANA SHOULD NOT HAVE RESPONDED THIS WAY…. BUUUUUUUT…. it doesn’t surprise me, and I can understand why it panned out this way…. I personally think both parties are equally guilty, and I’m not willing to simply bash Dana for his reaction, and be shocked that he responded to this particular individual in this way.
I think you have to put some of the responsibility on their existing relationship, instead of looking at this as an isolated incident.
Biased reporting is par for the course, if Sherdog had a curse word or two in every sentence in every single article one the site then they wouldn’t be where they are today either though.
Look at it this way even if Lorretta Hunt was 100% wrong and her life’s goal was to destroy the UFC and she sacrificed puppies in her free time then Dana White’s profanity laced tirade still looses because she presented her article like a actual adult instead of a 12 year old with a pottymouth. This isn’t about who is right or wrong it’s about public perception and the one who actually presents themselves as a reasonable adult wins the public perception battle everytime.
I know I'm coming off as supporting Dana's tirade, but...
What i’m trying to argue is that we, being part of the MMA community at times have to look past what’s on the surface, to look at the reality of the situation. My point is that although Dana obviously reacted in a overwhelming way, we have to look at the situation realistically, and know that he is not the only individual at fault… He isn’t helping the cause by drawing attention away from her negativity towards his, but that isn’t to say we should completely ignore what fault she has in this situation, and how its relative to their respective histories.
I think efforts on both sides should be made to mend the bridge that has been burned between the two sides, but as we know the UFC doesn’t need Sherdog, and Sherdog has had its own fair share of success (a lot in part due to the success of the UFC which is ironic as hell) without the UFC wanting to deal with them. In a perfect world Sherdog would promote more objectivity in their stories, and the UFC would be willing to work with them again…
I know what you are argueing, heck I think a lot of people agree that the Hunt article wasn’t very well done at all but that is a different subject entirely than Dana White being a grade A jack ass everytime someone gets under his skin. The very reason why there is no two sides to this story is because Dana White made it that way with his comments. Dana might as well of released a 2 minute video of him yelling “look at me I’m a giant prick” for all the good that did to him getting his side of the story out.
If you were watching a Presidential debate and one of the canidates started screaming obsenities at the other canidate then would people even remember what they were talking about afterwards or would they just be left with the impression that one canidate is and unprofessional asshole? This isn’t a who’s right and who’s wrong issue it’s a perception issue and that is because Dana turned it into one due to his inability to act like a adult.
That’s not how it works, big media does things in a similar way to how small media does them all the time. Dana reacts to pretty much every criticism the same way regardless of where it comes from. What’s he going to do if one of the talking heads on ESPN do what the talking heads on ESPN do all the time to the UFC?
you've clearly never worked with the American media
after 15 years in politics I can vouch for the fact that utterly biased reporters are a feature not a bug.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
You're right...
completely, actually… I guess my argument is that Dana’s reaction was not based off of a single report, but more an accumulation of his feelings towards Sherdog, PERIOD. I also argue that bad press is more likely to hurt the UFC, and MMA because of the fact that its still not accepted everywhere, whereas other sports have been around, and gained stability over time. PLUS this issue of UFC supposedly treating their fighters terribly is a perception that probably pisses Dana off, as most of the speculation, even when unfounded is believed to be fact and regurgitated over and over again, even though the UFC is the most professionally run MMA company ever.
It pays its fighters the most overall, it has the largest stable, it gives out bonuses routinely to award good performances, uses its revenue to get sanctioning across the world, etc, etc. You never hear stories of UFC fighters not getting paid… The most reputable complaints have come from fighters who have made millions of dollars (Randy, Tito who signed contracts prior to complaining) and even those arguments have forced Dana and Company to release information that basically proved them wrong…., and many times the contracts are misinterpreted and used as basis for arguments that most don’t even know to be true…
Obviously not every thing speculated about the UFC and its treatment of fighters is off, i.e. ancillary rights, and as fans of course we want the fighters to be treated well, but you can’t name an org that yields more opportunity for financial gain than the UFC, and in most instances its not even CLOSE…. So when the president of your company is a brash, potty-mouthed dude, who himself has managed fighters since well before the UFC made this kinda money, and he hears all this bad press about how once again the UFC is treating fighters horrible it doesn’t surprise me that he would respond this way… Its unfortunate, but I’m not in his shoes, and it seems to me its the same passion that has made the ufc successful that makes him respond in such a poor matter…
by Loot on Apr 1, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can be passionate about things without being a foul mouthed jerk. Zuffa has got to a level where professionalism is required for them to go forward.
I think Dana has taken Bas Rutten’s advice. “Two eyes for one eye.”
Some at Sherdog do have a vendetta to mess with Dana’s business and Loretta specifically has used her position to actively promote against/attempt to damage Zuffa. In an organization filled with as much testosterone as the UFC, how long do you think it takes before things boil over? They are trying to take food off of his table or money out of his pocket if you prefer. I’m not surprised, and as foul mouthed as it may be it does gain him my respect for defending himself in a position where he is in the right.
Everyone is always searching for ulterior motives within Zuffa’s every move while plenty of things are able to slide in other orgs.
Thing is if he wanted to actually get back at Sherdog then the thing to do would be to release the information that makes them look bad in a reasoned professional way not by random vulgar ranting and name calling. If you want to show that someone is a pig then the last thing you want to do is get down in the mud and roll around with them. Even if his point was correct and Hunt is out to get them he lost the debate the minute he started acting like a surly teenager instead of the president of a billion dollar company. Yelling and cursing never wins debates or proves points it just reflect poorly on the person doing it.
I don’t care if Zuffa is “testosterone filled” or if they think Sherdog is trying to take food off their table acting like a damned fool doesn’t hurt Sherdog it makes them look like they might of been on to something here. I mean seriously look at this from the outside as a casual fan would, you have the president and public face of a billion dollar company acting like a spoiled child screaming profanity at a freaken internet website.
Rec.
Sherdog is good only for the odd feature (Luke’s are good, would be equally good on BE though so no bonus points for Sherdog), fight finder, and Beatdown radio. Sherwood’s show is god-awful and takes too much work to skip the non-MMA portions. Were his opinion anything I cared to listen to, I might have more patience there.
The UFC isn’t everything to everyone, but it is MMA’s sliced bread.
Wait until Dana gets a hold of this article.
He will probably call you all kinds of nasty things.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
I'd feel honored
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He lost because instead of people looking at this point to point they are going to see Hunt’s article that is written properly(if incorrectly) compared to Dana’s obsene yelling and name calling. If you want to prove someone is a pig then the last thing you do is get down in the mud with them and roll around.
When it comes to MMA journalism, Sherdog is as big as it gets. They don’t always do a good job, but being the most heavily trafficked MMA site, that posts most of their articles on ESPN, you can’t act like their small potatoes.
by Gentleman Dandy on Apr 1, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but I can act like they have an anti-Zuffa bias, as my eyes would have to be potatoes for me to draw any other conclusion.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So, what does that have to do with the utter sloppiness of White’s remarks? Sherdog’s bias, so he calls Hunt a “fucking bitch”. You’re right, he handled this one properly. Regular PR whiz.
by Gentleman Dandy on Apr 1, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Do your research before assigning positions to people
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Sherdog
Personally I find the talk that Sherdog has regarding the UFC isn’t as bad as it is toward the other way around. Sherdog doesn’t take pot spots at the UFC at every turn. They let it be known that Dana White doesn’t like them and it’s clear why – UFC hates criticism and a powerful media outlet.
A journalist is a journalist. Do journalists get it wrong? Yes but reading the article I didn’t get a sense of ridiculousness. It seemed like a decent article that I didn’t make much of, the UFC decided to not allow accreditation to more people. Take that how you will.
It wasn’t the worst article though. Not the crap that had Mike Gundy scream “I’m a man, I’m 40.”
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
by achengy on Apr 1, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you think that Sherdog has done nothing...
to sour the relationship with the UFC, and are in the right COMPLETELY, then you need not continue replying because that is ridiculous.
But again...
that doesn’t matter in THIS discussion. Hunt could have just sat there and lied through her teeth (on a keyboard) it doesn’t excuse this behavior.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So its acceptable for her to lie?
Where is your article condemning Hunt’s misinformation, and very biased article? My only point is that its both sides’ fault…. not just Dana’s. I agree with your opinion at its core, but still I’ve seen so much negativity from Sherdog towards the UFC that I can’t be upset if he chooses to react this way…
Dana's behavior is his own responsibility...
as a man I consider my ability to control myself and act like the man I am to be on me. External sources do not dictate my behavior.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But again...
We are only focusing on Dana… What you’re implying is that Hunt should be able to shape the opinions of future fans, fighters etc that the UFC is a corrupt machine working to enslave any fighter they have, and sabotage relationships with managers/agents and that its okay.
I didn’t say Dana was right, but I don’t see how using good grammar, and refraining from a few curse words excuses Hunt’s behavior, or article.
The point is...
as a company president (and an adult) he should behave in a certain way. WHen he doesn’t it damages his ability to defend his product. He could have called Hunt a liar, explained the truth, and even said she wrote a lot of stupid shit that was entirely made up. He could have done it on the VLOG, at the press conference, in an interview…etc. But instead he killed his own defense by coming across like a petulant child.
It is far more damaging to the sport for arguably the most visible personality in it to use words like faggot and calling a women “fucking bitch” than it is for an internet writer to write a half assed story. If you don’t agree then we’re never going to see eye to eye.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Brent...
This is my favorite site, because you guys take time to engage us in serious discussion regardless of our opinions, and most of your points are exactly correct…. My point is that the blog, and the internet media period has to at some point take responsibility for stirring the pot, and understand when something is legitimate journalism, or complete speculation… The reactions to Lorretta’s article was to instantly question the practices of the UFC per usual…. No matter how many bad articles people write, nor how often biases are extremely prevalent in the writing, these things get looked past as if they shouldn’t result in any backlash, and yet the Blogospher wonders why they can’t get credentialed for events and the like.
DANA is wrong, but I’m not surprised… he’s the type of person that will ignore a lot of shit (because the amount of shit that is said about him and the ufc is too numerous to respond too) but when he feels like YOU’ve crossed the line, he doesn’t give a fuck… Should he be more professional? Obviously, but I’m not willing to excuse Hunt’s actions simply because she was called a bitch…
That’s all I’m saying…
article is questionable. But there is something to the fact that the UFC declined to comment rather than just saying “well…here are the facts, fighters are given x credentials which they can give to whomever they wish”
They could have killed it quickly.
Regardless I see what you’re saying.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats DEFINITELY
what shoulda happened…. but again I think the prior relationship is what caused UFC to not reply, and is a result of the bad history between the two parties…
I really get that part
of things. The history contributed to a bad situation which made how both sides handled things bad. I just personally want to see Dana take more responsibility for his own behavior.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I think in his own mind...
Dana probably feels like he takes the high road on a lot of occasions… lol. I think he is a smart enough guy to have made his point in a better way, and still get AT HER, if he really wanted to, in a more subtle appropriate way… I really wish he would, because his antics get in the way of the good things he does…
No one is completely in the right
Thanks, I need not reply to your comments.
They are a media outlet. Sherdog is but a fly to the UFC. Sherdog can say whatever they want and it will not affect the UFC. I personally find their opinion just as valuable as Ben Fowlkes and the BE crew. That’s your choice, so let’s not get in the entitlement argument. Dana White doesn’t need to respond the way he has.
AWmusic - mp3 blog on independent music..
The only part we disagree...
Is where SHerdog should be able to say watever they want to say, regardless if its false, or completely wrong (revealing tuf results, etc)
Maybe someone should send this clip to Bob Reilly.
I bet that would get him in a little hot water.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
The last thing that idiot needs is ammunition.
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Its true. He probably wouldn’t know what to do with it anyway.
I don’t see Dana being held accountable unless someone gets a more mainstream media outlet to cover this.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
All he’d have to do is point, grunt and look concerned/outraged – which is what he does to MMA at large anyway
by Derek Suboticki on Apr 1, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Uncalled For
Loretta’s article was a legit piece of investigative journalism. Why is she a “fucking bitch” for reporting the facts? If something is inaccurate in her article, or he had a problem with her opinion that’s one thing, but that’s not what’s going on here. As a matter of fact, I found it fairly objective, as she included Cox’s statement’s about how the backstage passes aren’t a big deal.
Dana doesn’t understand mass media. It’s sad, really. He should’ve had a pre-planned response for this info before he even revoked the passes. This info was inevitably going to come out. Did he really expect to remain a secret?
What facts?
She presented two “reasons” why the UFC was taking credentials from managers… FIrst of all, it appears that the UFC does no such thing… THEN the two possible reasons are either “the ufc is doing something underhanded” or “the ufc is trying to clean up the backstage process”… She then discredits the latter with some more “facts” that say the UFC is being picky about who they allow backstage.
There are no real sources, nor is anything about what she says proven to be true.
Again...
that doesn’t really matter in the context of this conversation. White could have gone to the presser after the fights and explained the situation and made her look like an idiot without being an unprofessional mess.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Since she’s flat-out wrong, the best way to make her look like an idiot is to get the widest distribution for the least amount of money.
And.. voila.
And.. voila.I don’t watch it much anymore, but it’s still good that Dana has his v-log so we have another source of relatively unfiltered insider information. And Dana is a figurehead for the UFC – his presence does drive interest and generate $$$ because he communicates relatively well and fans identify with him. He isn’t Roger Goodell and thankfully not Tom “tired of tasting his own foot” Atencio.
Maybe you know something I don’t, but I haven’t heard Dana say he didn’t take backstage pass priveleges away. What I did see was that he responded by calling her a “fucking bitch”. What I did see was that Ken Pavia’s pass was taken away, with no reason given. More to the point, anonymous sources are regularly used by legit media outlets. Journalists are allowed to reach their own conclusions from the variety of souces they’ve gathered, you know. Its called Triangulation. I’m sure you already knew that, though…
by Gentleman Dandy on Apr 1, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I kind of think...
they may try to spin it that way even if it wasn’t. Either way though…I don’t know that the best way to pull a joke off is to bring up these kind of words.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Or possibly...
…he has taken too much
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Coming from someone who has friends, loved ones, and co-workers who are gay… I think what he said showed a side I don’t like about Dana White.
Is he becoming a liability to mma? Zuffa? I think that question answers itself… Hope the MSM doesn’t decide to jump on this…
Not smart!
by DeepStrike on Apr 1, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Part of me almost hopes they do.
You shouldn’t be able to get away with saying that on that public a platform.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That's...
such a weak ass argument. I’m sorry but “because I can” is not an appropriate defense of behavior unless you’re 12
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Becasue I Can
It’s the Neutral Evil alignment! Kill it with fire!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
have you fought for our country, if you had/have then I’de think you’d share the same point of view, or at least see what I’m saying instead of only someone who’s 12 would think that (i’m 25)…or you can go sit in Baghdad with people dying all around you, etc…
or maybe I don’t get your point, as for kittis kid, hate speech? I guess I don’t see calling someone a bitch as hate speech, unless f*ck you is hate speech?
I was referring to the "F" word as hate speech.
It’s a derogatory term for homosexuals.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
faggot is hate speech…that is what he was getting at. And I don’t have to have fought for our country to think that it’s inappropriate to just say whatever you want “because you can”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, differing opinions, I think to live in this country you should have had to have fought for this country but thats extreme, just personal opinion….
another great thing about the USA is people can think what they want and have their own opinion, I have mine, f*ggot isn’t hate speech to me, its more slang, but thats a whole different topic…
continue on, don’t want to take this comment section off topic from the pro-gay rights people or whatever is going on…
Hm. Fascinating.
Thanks for your service.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
your service to the country is appreciated, honestly.
And it isn’t a “pro-gay rights” thing. It is simply that the gay community in general regards that word as one of the most hateful things that can be said about them. A lot of people forget what the community went though in the early days of the gay rights movement and thinks that “faggot” and “fag” and “queer” were always just slang insults.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
But IMO
Faggot is used in more instances than simply to describe an actual gay person, and is in many instances equivalent to bitch in the heat of the moment…. just like calling the guy a pussy doesn’t really mean he is in fact a Vagina….
Again, doesn’t make it right.
It equates being gay with being “bad” or “undesirable,” so it shouldn’t be used.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Well it isn't as if using
the word faggot in a positive sense would evoke a good message, you know? It’s a negative term used in any type of context, but I don’t think dana’s intent was to attack gay people, and more so just wanted to say something negative about who said the comment.
Just be cause I can do something doesn’t mean I should. It is within my free will to rape or kill, but I won’t because it’s morally wrong. Dana can call people “faggots” if he wants, but he shouldn’t.
Also, are you saying only people who have served in the military appreciate freedom of speech or something? What does your service in Iraq have to do with anything?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
because calling someone a bitch is legal…..its a freedom, we are not free to rape and kill, nice comparison though…
R,
I think we all appreciate the sacrifices you and other servicepeople have made, but the connection to this topic is a little tenuous, don’t you think?
Do you celebrate people’s ability to say the “N” word as one of the positive offshoots of your service?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
no, because thats place in “racism”…people are born with a skin color…don’t need to go into the history of slavery, etc…
gay people is choice (depending on what you believe and this is probably where we differ)….
i don’t condone saying fag, but i’m not above it, i’ve probably already called a friend a fag today…but i wouldn’t ever say it to a gay man just because of his choices…
dana didn’t do that either imo…
"gay people is choice"
Again, actually not true.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If sexual orientation is a mere choice, then when did you choose to be straight, or have you always been attracted to women (I’m assuming you’re a hetero male)? And if you’re not willing to use “fag” in front of a gay person, you probably shouldn’t use it at all. At least, that’s the rule I use.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'mma cut this part of the conversation short...
I just don’t want us getting into choice vs. born that way as it’s a slippery slope.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Party pooper…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I already cut it short because I knew where it could lead, just sharing my opinion…and respectful of others…
For sure...
and it’s appreciated. I just was making sure no one freaked out as a response
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I am free to rape and kill – just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean I am incapable of doing it. Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s moral. There’s a weak correlation between the two. I am free to choose what I do, regardless of laws.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
you’re not free to rape and kill, you’de spend time in jail = not free…
you’re free to say whatever the hell you want no matter how disgraceful or hurtful though…
where we differ, what other people say has no effect on me, words aren’t weapons imo, but I can see how others feel differently…
by Reaser on Apr 1, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s metaphysical free will – if people aren’t free to kill, then why do murders happen? We aren’t allowed to kill, but that’s different. Laws are a social construct, hopefully reflecting good moral values. I am free to break the law if I want – I can choose it.
Words are weapons. I study philosophy of language, and my best friend is a rhetorician, so we analyze words’ effects. Listen to how Churchill mobilized the British to war or Bush solidified his political agenda via language. If someone insulted your tenure in the military, wouldn’t you be offended?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly no i wouldn’t get offended…but i don’t discredit the point you’re making, just don’t agree with it, obviously…
not to get too off topic but I couldn’t kill terrorists with words..
and i get free will, but consequences usually “rank” (for lack of better word) the “crime”/offense committed…which unless you threaten someone or verbally attack a police officer, you aren’t ever getting punished, especially for calling a (not very good) “journalist” (if she’s even that) a bitch and calling NO ONE (aka anonymous) a f*g…
if Dana called Shad Smith a f*g then the context would be completely different and I’de be in favor of Dana losing his job…
if that makes sense…
Consequences are irrelevant as to whether you can do something. The consequences of me drunkenly peeing on a police station are bad (don’t ask), but I can still do it.
Words can’t kill terrorists, but the dichotomy created by the Bush Admin (“With us or against us” and “Stay the Course/Cut and Run”) inspired people to go and kill them and stifle detractors.
But yeah, the fights are starting, so I’m out. It’s been cool.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
you're free say what you want
but you’re free to suffer the consequences too.
"the spirit of your average dumbass with more overblown rhetoric" OR "the self-appointed savior of MMA"
What’s great about this country is that you can use hate speech?
I don’t think that’s what’s great about it.
And I don’t think he should be arrested for it. I just think it should get the proper amount of disgust from all corners.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Completly irrelevant. Dana White is a public figure and the rules are different for public figures, might not be fair but it’s part of the price he has to pay to be rich, famous and powerful in his field. Dana won’t go to jail for calling someone a faggot but he could cause considerable PR damage to his company due to his language useage.
Congratulations of fighting for this country, that is a great thing that deserves huge respect but please don’t think that gives you any added insight into what is and isn’t acceptable for a public figure to be saying.
but how public of a figure is he really? i posted below, but only “we” are going to see his vlog, or know that he said bitch and fag, mainstream media won’t see it and doesn’t care, casual fans won’t see it and don’t care, etc…there will be ZERO PR damage from this vlog…
and yes, different rules for the rich and famous, they can snort cocaine and be out of rehab in a day…
What he can get away with today doesn’t equate to what he may be able to get away with tomorrow or the next day. The problem isn’t that he did this it’s that he does this all the time, he is consistantly running his mouth in a way that one day will hurt his own company. Heck Dana wants his company to grow but it is that very growth that makes his actions so dangerous to the company.
I’m a here and now person, I got brent’s point and I get what you’re saying, my stance is that its nowhere near a big deal….today, maybe a year, two, 5 years from now, but not today or anytime soon…only “we” will ever know about it…
Yes and that is why it is time for him to change how he presents himself now, before it does become a real problem for the company. This isn’t a discussion about a single out of line comment it’s about how Dana White carries himself all the time. Will this be anything beyond a internet discussion? Probably not but what happens next time or the time after that? There will come a point in time when this crap will blow up in his face and not only will hurt him it will hurt the entire sport that he represents.
Living in the here and now is great if your a teenager or a biker or a hippy but it doesn’t work for presidents of growth companies, particularly in industries that already have to deal with negative public connotations just for being what it is.
I agree and disagree…probably too long to type, agree with the idea of it, but disagree at this time…and i’m not a teenager, ha…and i’ll always be here and now…future can bring anything…
I was here and now until I had children now the only thing there is is the future and I regret the here and now actions I took in the past.
This is one of those things that will one day bite the UFC in the ass, it might not be today, it might not be tomorrow but if things don’t change it will happen eventually and it will be all the worse for all the past things that will be dug up and thrown against him too. Once the media gets a bone it keeps digging until the target is destroyed, things said today can come back to hurt them in the future too and the quicker they grow up the better it is for the company.
ah, I can see having kids changing perspective…
get what you’re saying, again, ha, just don’t feel the same on this topic…
Personally I agree with your take on it, people are just too damn touchy but we live in a world where Janet Jackson’s nipple almost brought our society to a standstill too. Public perception is a very tricky thing.
My wife tore me up about my language just the other day because my 4 year old told her to “make those damn dogs shut the hell up”. Surprisingly she didn’t want to discuss the finer points of free speech or the PC media culture.
I understand your stance completly it’s just that these things become emotional issues and that will invariably end up going poorly for Dana in the end.
I think brent writes the best “articles”/opinion pieces (of mma bloggers) and usually agree with most, but not this one. Just don’t see the big deal, Dana White isn’t Roger Goodell, nor is he even in a comparable position, only legit comparison is Dana is trying to make MMA better and Goodell is trying to make the NFL worse, thats as close as a comparison as you can get…
We have freedom of speech in this country, Loretta Hunt can write crap articles, Dana White can respond via vlogs, brent can blow it out of proportion (imo, no offense), etc…why I love my country…
and lets not act like anyone outside of “hardcore” mma fans or the ones that search multiple mma blogs everyday for inside are going to see or hear about this. 75% of the people watching Fight Night and TUF tonight will have no idea who loretta hunt is or that dana has a vlog…it will never be shown on ESPN, etc…
basically its not a big deal because only “we” know about it, plus the fact that people say bitch and fag on the daily basis, if I see a gay “man” walking i don’t yell fag at him, but if my friend does something “gay” i call him a fag…or if i dominate my friend in madden i said “what bitch”…etc
See...
I get the “only we know” thing (and trust me I take no offense to you saying I’m blowing it out of proportion..especially for the kind first sentence) but my thing is that as the sport grows there is going to be a time when this happens and it gets picked up on and it sets us back because it reinforces the image of the sport as a bunch of Neanderthals who are not on the level with other professional athletes.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, well if/when Dana is commissioner of MMA or UFC is at levels of even NHL is mainstream media, then ya, I would probably agree with your article 100%….but i don’t find it to be a big deal now, and I don’t think it will be anytime in the near future. I understand why you wrote it, but its like me writing an article about an NFL team in London, who the hell knows if/when that would happen…(obviously dana’s language compared to an expansion NFL team isn’t the point I was making)…
The UFC is getting to a point where the mainstream is paying attention, heck the UFC is working daily to get them to a point where the mainstream media starts paying attention to them, I’m sure this isn’t the mainstream attention getter they are looking for though.
dana’s vlog isn’t mainstream attention, i guess was my point, maybe in the future, which i understand, but as of today, what he said doesn’t really matter (in terms of negative mainstream coverage or anything)…not one person at ESPN will see his vlog I’m guessing, and if they did, its not going to be on sportscenter or anything, or even ESPNEWS, they don’t care, not meaning to say “so why should we”, but really in the grand scheme of things, its not a big deal…imo
That vlog will now exist on the internet forever in one shape or form and those kinds of things have been known to come back to bite people in the ass before. It’s not a good thing for public figures to leave baggage behind them either.
agreed, but if Max Mosely (FIA president, FIA governs Formula 1, a sport more popular than MMA is worldwide) can keep his job as president after a sex tape, 5 hooker nazi orgy, where there was nazi references, people tied up, etc…I think in the future if someone brings up a vlog of Dana going crazy calling people “names” he’ll still be fine…
now if he did it WHILE the sport was mainstream and this being the over-sensitive (in my opinion) United States then yes, he and the sport could be in trouble, but we’re nowhere near that…
“people say bitch and fag on the daily basis”
Doesn’t make it right.
“if my friend does something "gay" i call him a fag”
Also not cool.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
not cool in your opinion, I wouldn’t say it in front of you though, I’m just being honest in my commentary…
if my friends got offended by it i wouldn’t say it, its just slang, thats apparently used alot more where i live than where you are…or at least accepted, I’ve even, yes this is true, seen a gay guy call another guy a fag, using it as an insult, the irony of it made me along with everyone else laugh, but the gay guy then proceeded to knock out this guy who was verbally attacking him for no reason other than his sexual preference, which was also hilarious, to me…
It’s used plenty as slang where I’m from. I say the same thing to those people I’m saying to you.
It’s a hateful term and it shouldn’t be used.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 1, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
well honestly it’s not going to stop me..but keep fighting the fight, its respectable, I don’t think there should be horse racing but plenty of people do that and support it, and horses die…
No need to be hateful, Dana.
Look, I like Dana and what he’s done for MMA, and I don’t really get upset over what he says. I am also all for free speach, but you can’t be hateful. Words like “bitch” and “faggot” have derogatory, hateful connotations to it: specifically misogyny and homophobia. He can say what he wants, even call someone an idiot, but he can’t be hateful. There’s a difference. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as true free speach, otherwise one could truly say what they felt. But there is a line, and he crossed it. Should he apologize? I dunno, I guess it’s up to how Loretta and her sources feel about it.
by pud333 on Apr 1, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I just want to give some props to the BE community...
obviously there were some pretty edgy aspects to the discussion that has been taking place here and no one has really gone overboard in their behavior. Well handled as usual gang.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
hah, “we” did a good job, I do have the feeling we’re getting too close to it getting off topic though and into other more “edgy” topics/discussions. So I’m out of this one now, shared my opinions, didn’t go too bad, ha…
The most edgy of your opinions was probably
I think brent writes the best "articles"/opinion pieces (of mma bloggers)
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
edgy AND true.
I rarely chime in or bother to read all the comments from mma blogs….but Brent, you do good work and your articles almost always generate healthy discussions and debate. You should be commended for that. Getting people talking and debating without bashing you or each other is tough to do and you do it well. Props to you
DUH!
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Aw…I was having fun with the discussion…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 1, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
I appreciate everyone being able to communicate their points so well, without exactly gettin pissed off lol.
It's Just Inappropriate
Good God that’s a lot of comments on this post.
Basically my feeling is, and always has been, that it is inappropriate, tasteless, and ignorant for the president of a “billion dollar corporation” to carry himself in the way that Dana White does.
Not only that, but there is no disputing the fact that there is no place for it in the respected business world, in the board rooms of large media companies that he will eventually want to be friendly with or do business deals with.
It just amazes me that he refuses to acknowledge these facts and grow up. Does he talk to his mother like that? I’m not the anti-curse police and I hate those who are but in regular business dealings, dealing with customers, peers, colleagues, etc. who haven’t done terrible things to you or your family, it’s just totally uncalled for to call them things like “fucking bitch”.
Doing so only shows your own lack of class and intelligence. And Dana can call me a fucking idiot until his head explodes for saying that but it’s not going to change that fact.
-- FightCritic
interesting
in that this post has over 200 responses and the ones around it are not even in the 20’s. First, a great article by Brent that touched on several topics. Dana is not a media savy person. If anyone remembers his appearance on the O’Reilly Factor. If he perceives that Sherdog and Loretta has a vendetta against him, he needs to ignore them. Or do what Brent said and destroy her at the post fight presser. This could have been done without the use of curse words. Loretta using unnamed sources is kind of icky but sadly that is now standard practice. Plus, the allegations are not unbelievable, We have all seen how Dana will fly off teh handle at any management that dares to challenge him. GSP, Randy, Jon Fitch, Tito and so on,.
The reason the MSM has ignored or not paid any attention to him yet is that he is not Bud Selig. He is Vince McMahon. Bud or Roger Goodell or David Stern do not have their face plastered all over their product. They let their sport do all the talking. Dana is hell bent on being center stage as all the cameras snap. If Dan wants UFC to be one of the biggest sports out their he has to start acting like his counterparts.
Even Vince McMahon knows how to act in public and can separate his in show persona from his role as head of a major company.
Yeah...
he still comes across as a bit of a carny shifty type. But he at least tones it down a bit outside of his shows when he is speaking in public. But it’s still a good comparison. He IS the product in more ways than a Selig, Stern, Goodell…etc are.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 1, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Vince McMahon is both a company representative and a in ring personality. Becoming a in ring personality was a designed ploy to get attention and gain viewers. Dana has become a public persona based on his personality not based on intentional design. Dana doesn’t need to change his personality he just needs to take more control of himself and act more professionally in these types of situations. You can tell it like it is without spewing off at the mouth like a 12 year old.
I disagree
I think the Dana we all see is just as much a character as the Vince McMahon we all see. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Dana has based his persona on Vince’s. Sure, it’s a little less cartoonish, maybe a little closer to the real man, but it’s still a self-aggrandizing construct designed to pull in viewers.
"You know what really chaps my ass?"
Why did he go and have to call her a female dog? I lost a little bit of respect for him on that one. =/
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Brent, so what your saying is:
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Apr 1, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah...
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
But at a certain point there is a line that is crossed between a harmless lack of professionalism and unacceptable behavior. I’d say this latest tirade is well over that line.
Cry me a river, Dana was right to call out Hunt and her bs so what if he used the word faggot and hearing posters on here tell him that he crossed the line is hillarious and smells of hypocrisy from miles away. And if the media picks it up so what it’s up to the people to decide if you want sports to be a place were a guy has to lose sponsorships because he smoked some weed or say who gives a fuck and move on.
I want the UFC...
MMA and the world in general to be the kind of place where a person in a powerful position acts like a respectable member of society and not a thug using hate speech. That’s just me.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
not at you…but I laughed, literally, when I read you wanted the world to be a place where “a person in a powerful position acts like a respectable member of society”…
so many names come to mind, Max Mosley, George Preston Marshall (former owner of the Redskins, the last owner to have an African-American on his roster and considered the most racist NFL owner pre-merger era), Bud Selig and baseball owners allowing roids/HGH to happen when they knew and did nothing about it, Rick Hendrick’s recent secret dealings, Pete Rose betting on games he was managing, College basketball and football coaches who do all sorts of jacked up shit, same with AD’s. and this is just sports…
powerful positions in the world, Clinton’s sexual activities, George Bush’s oil, Nixon’s watergate, a few of our early Presidents had slaves, and thats just our leaders, don’t need to go into things like Hitler, etc but he and other terrible people were/are in powerful position’s also. Could even get into Henry Paulson messing up the economy…CEO’s and presidents of AIG, ceo’s and presidents of car companies, Larry Flynt or Hugh Hefner, powerful positions, some people don’t like what they “stand” for, I think they are geniuses…but i bet theres plenty of people who think they are a disgrace and bad for society and not respectable…
could even get back to sports if you consider “star” athletes to be in a powerful position, you can put Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod, Joey Porter called Kellen Winslow a “fag” and his punishment was a $10,000 fine, Dante Stallworth, etc…but I don’t think you’ll consider players because it would hurt your arguement and they don’t exactly “own/manage/run” anything but to me they are technically in a powerful position, publics eye and the fact they get paid so much (a money = power type of thing)…
besides the fact that I think saying Dana White was using hate speech is a little over the top (and the fact that I don’t think either of the words he used are hate speech, common slang maybe, but not hate speech unless used in a certain way which he wasn’t doing, thats JUST MY OPINION though)…
but I think its a little unrealistic to ever think we’ll be in a world where a majority of the people(s) in powerful positions act in a respectable manner. How do you think most of the people in powerful positions get into those positions, its not by being a respectful person and a good member of society, most powerful positions (people) are “whatever it takes to get there and stay there”…need to stomp out a 2 month old dog to become president of a major company, I think most people who have those positions would do it to keep their jobs and alot of people worldwide would do it to get those jobs…just how the world works, you want it better, I want it better, never going to be better, its not rainbows and lollypops, its fuck yous and shut up bitches…
that is if you want to be realistic, but wanting better is never a bad thing, but you already know I think this is blown out of proportion, I understand why now with how you want the world to be, but realistically, what I posted above is how it is…
I don’t know why but just sharing, but peoples reaction to this reminds me of a few months ago I was in the mall walking and this dude was wearing a t-shirt that said “Free Mike Vick”, I laughed, thought it was funny, an older lady had the most disgusted look on her face I’de ever seen and she just stared at him as he walked by. I think 33% of people are like me and think its funny, 33% of people are like the old lady and get offended, and 33% of people just don’t care at all. Percentages can move up and down but in general. Obviously he wasn’t a person in a powerful position, but I asked a friend earlier if he saw dana’s vlog and he said “yup” and nothing else, so i said what about when he was going off about loretta hunt and he said “ya, i saw it, i don’t really care” and he’s as big of mma fan as me. I asked another friend and he was like “ya i saw it, it was hilarious” which was my reaction also.
so you got the 33% (usually the over sensitive crowd) that are offended by his comments, the 33% that find it hilarious and the 33% that just don’t care either way and don’t even give it a 2nd thought like my friend I mentioned above…
nothing to do with anything, but I find it interesting, sheds light on how people perceive things…
Call me the 1% who dislike Mike Vick for being an awesome football player at VA Tech, causing college applications to significantly increase and thus my friend and planned room mate didn’t get accepted, who would have kept me from falling into depression and causing me to waste two years of my life dropping out of college there.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
A working associate who was gay decided he needed to come out of the closet to me and tell me that he was a “faggot” (his words) so for some reason I never really thought of it as a really bad word. I suppose they can refer to themselves that way but straight people cannot.
Your article is a little overreaching. It would be great if Dana cleaned up his language a little. I’d understand his point a lot more. They guy swears like it’s an addiction. Hate speech is obviously low low stuff, but MMA just shouldn’t be compared to these other sports vis-a-vis what’s acceptable and what isn’t. I mean, baseball is a completely different sport. It’s proper and there’s no contact and it’s popular in New England etc.
MMA is born marketing to an entirely different audience. The reason why the other big sports would require an apology is the fear of backlash and tarnishing the sports image, UFC doesn’t have to worry about that as much right now (apparently it overwhelmingly caters to people with a lust for violence who are straight and younger etc).
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just think that the comparison is more where you wish MMA were, as opposed to where it is.
It's what MMA will be compared to...
if it continues to grow. Everyone wants mainstream attention but the mainstream attention ain’t gonna be pretty if arguably the most visible person in the sport in running around calling female reporters he doesn’t like “fucking bitches” and people he disagrees with “faggots”
I get that the sports are different, but the treatment of them by the mainstream won’t be
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
http://CurseOfRonKarkovice.blogspot.com/
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 2, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
boxing was still doing fine with Mike Tyson saying he wanted to eat children???
Combat sports get treated alot different from Football, Soccer, Hockey, Baseball….
boxing was, has been and (still is kinda) mainstream, look at all the ridiculous stuff that happens in boxing, corrupt “leaders”, title fights between a #1 guy and a #50 ranked guy who all of a sudden is ranked #8 because a sanctioning body gets paid off, corrupt judges, corrupt officials, sleezebag promoters, Don King (enough said)…
I don’t want mma to be anything close to boxing, but even when boxing was at its (modern day) best, it had stuff going on alot worse than Dana White calling a female “reporter” a bitch and calling no one in particular a faggot (aimed it at anonymous, which is really no one)…
if mma was mainstream and this happend, it’d get a 2 second mention that no one would care about, on sportscenter after they show pictures of A-Rod kissing himself in the mirror for the 100th time..
we’re acting like we live in a society where this is actually important, no one in mainstream media cares, it might give them a story but it’d last at most a day and do no damage whatsoever, Joey Porter called Kellen Winslow a fag, thats worse than what Dana did since porter actually directed it at someone, his punishment, a $10,000 fine which is chump change to him and did anything else happen? does anyone really care? or was it forgotten a day later by 95% of the people who read/saw it happend?
When I was young (and boxing was still on network) then you could get away with a lot of stuff that you can’t get away with now. I keep seeing the point that this probably won’t turn into anything but honestly why risk the PR reputation of a billion dollar company by acting like that? Seriously is anything good supposed to be coming out of cursing and having fits?
Sometimes a 40 year old man just really needs to start acting like a 40 year old man, particularly when he is the head of a multinational company. He can still be all hip and edgy and tell it like it is without having toddler like temper tantrums and then there would be no risk of any potental PR scandal at all.
I don’t disgree, Jim Rome bugs me sometimes (and I think he’s funny sometimes, watch and listen to his shows) because of the “40 year old man needs to act like one” and he tries to act like he’s the most popular kid in high school and he’s 18 years old when he’s just an old talking head…
depends if you subscribe to any publicity, good or bad, is still publicity. I don’t, but maybe thats what some people think.
I just honestly don’t think anyone that “matters” (mainstream media I guess?) gives a flying shit about Dana Whites comments on a vlog, now, tomorrow, next week or probably ever…again, Joey Porter is more famous and gets alot more coverage of mainstream sports media and he called Kellen Winslow a fag, and Joey Porter now has a super bowl ring, Dolphins signed him to a big contract, media loves him and even when he has a bad season (performance wise) he still gets interviewed and his clip played after every game, etc…wonder why that is? because people generally don’t care that he called someone a fag, some people laughed, some people got offended but most just didn’t care, mainstream sports media made it into a story for about 2 days, brought it up from time to time but never in a negative way, Joey being Joey, more played up the steelers-browns rivalry than anything negative about Joey using the word fag…which is what I would assume if UFC/MMA was mainstream would happen here, play up a UFC/sherdog or Dana v. Hunt rivalry as the MAIN story, not that he called her a bitch or called (no one) a fag…
You're right
And when that day comes they’ll be accountable, not because it’s the right thing to do, but because they want to stay profitable to a wide audience. I guarantee that’s why the other sports do it. It’s profit that gets those apologies, not “doing the right thing”.
Dana will change eventually, because I think he loves the UFC more than his swear words, but he’s not going to change until he has to. And he doesn’t have to yet.
But I’d love to see him change because it’s the right thing to do. That he’s the ambassador to a growing sport that is closing in on main stream acceptance and such, he should convey himself in a positive manner, but he won’t until he has to, and I guess there’s nothing particularly wrong with that.
For this discussion current audience is pretty irrelevant, particularly since the UFC’s goal is the to break into the mainstream and be a major sport as opposed to staying a fringe sport that only appeals to a specific demographic. They want to grow as a sport and they want to get mainstream attention, their own marketing/PR push kills the point you are trying to make.
My words got me in a world of trouble
I was the guy that got banned by the NBA for calling Dikembe Mutombo a monkey. I had no idea it was a racist statement, but either way. I had to pay severe consequences for my words. The event became my life changing experience. Check out this story from the Orlando Sentinel to see how my life changed from my poor choice of words. http://hoomancan.com/blog/2008/08/prosportsdailycom-reports-about-once-disgraced-magic-fan-hooman-hamzehloui/
I love Dana White and I love what he has done for the sport that I love. However, I believed he could have used different words and made his point. I believe we are all humans and are entitled to make mistakes. It is how we recover from our mistakes that makes us who we are. Henry Ford said, “Win or learn, there is no failure.”
Hooman Hamzehloui
www.HoomanCan.com
Nice to meet you too.
That ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me. It made me pursue my life long dream of becoming a motivational speaker.
Brent Awesome article
Bloody Elbow is the best. I am here everyday. I want to congratulate you on an awesome article. You are right on with your view. I am a wordsmith, there is a hundred and one ways to say something. It is all in your delivery.
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